A Song Of Ice And Fire Discussion

[Anouleth]

Tywin.

In Game of Thrones, he brings Tywin the army of mountain dudes to fight for him in battle, and acts as hand while Tywin is away.

Tywin takes over as hand, fucks Tyrion's woman, Tyrion sends the woman to wherever whores go and Tywin goes along with her.

Uh, Tyrion didn't bring the mountain dudes to fight for Tywin. Tyrion brought the mountain dudes to Tywin because they would have cut off his manhood etc. if he didn't give them the weapons he promised.

Cersei

Kills her little shit of a son (yes it was Tyrion, I will not let the glory be stolen from him by anyone). He should hav ebeen made king for that.

Cersei has him imprisoned and is going to have him executed. But he escapes. We find out from Cersei's POV in later books that he is at fault for most of what is going on in her life and the 7 kingdoms. She isn't dead yet, but only because Tyrion is taking his sweet time this time around.

When does Tyrion pay Cersei? And Tyrion is currently doing fuck all in the Slaver's Bay. He is hardly in the position to be masterminding her downfall. You have read ADWD right?

Joffrey.

I don't really remember if this is part of the book, but in the TV series Tyrion gives Joffrey some whores, payment of sorts. Also (pretty sure this was in the book) he slaps him to give him some sense and make a man out of him. Bright would be proud.

Joffrey continues acting like a little douche, Tyrion assassinates Joffrey (ya it was totes him, him and Cersei) and runs like hell after being in jail for a bit.

Riiiight.

I know you're keen to cast Tyrion as some kind of master manipulator who doesn't take disobedience from his lackeys, but the reality is that Tyrion doesn't HAVE any lackeys. Nobody is loyal to Tyrion. Tyrion is the ultimate reflection of the reality that loyalty is everything in the Seven Kingdoms. Oh, sure, people were loyal to his money, or to his family, but never to him.

[Agro]

Tyrion is kind of an asshole, actually.

[Parrhesia]

Let's be honest; in his situation? That brilliant and yet that much of a social outcast because of two circumstances, neither of which are your fault? I would be fucking insufferable.

I'm tempted to set up an ASOIaF tier list.

[Paperblade]

Tyrion Tier

Tyrion

Not-Tyrion Tier

Others

Bran Tier

Bran

done

edit: fixed tags

Edited May 4, 2012 by Paperblade

[Original Alear]

Tyrion Tier

Tyrion

Not-Tyrion Tier

Others

Bran Tier

Bran

done

edit: fixed tags

There actually are other characters in ASOIAF...and I'm not even really sure I would consider the Others a character or set of characters at this point in time.

[Anouleth]

Jaime into Tyrion tier since he's basically the same character but smoking hot and well-dressed and omg i love him so much

[Loki Laufeyson]

Tyrion Tier

Tyrion

Not-Tyrion Tier

Others

Bran Tier

Bran

done

edit: fixed tags

Dude...Rickon is so worse than Bran. Like, omg.

Tyrion is kind of an asshole, actually.

Nah. Hes just awesome. In that world, you gotta be a bit of an asshole to be that awesome.

[Parrhesia]

Wyman Manderly for bottom of Tyrion tier for pretty much every reason Jaime isn't using.

[Agro]

I actually like Bran...

Meereen Tier

Barristan

Quentyn

Daenerys

HIZDAHR ZO LORAQ

REZNAK MO REZNAK

Filler Tier

Arianne

Areo

Arys

Victarion

Aeron

In that order.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Agro

[Paperblade]

There actually are other characters in ASOIAF...and I'm not even really sure I would consider the Others a character or set of characters at this point in time.

I actually meant "Other characters" not "The Others" @_@

[Parrhesia]

Dude...Rickon is so worse than Bran. Like, omg.

Rickon is better because we don't get to see him whining. I hope Davos finds his head in a bag somewhere. Osha's cool though.

Meereen Tier

Barristan

Quentyn

Daenerys

HIZDAHR ZO LORAQ

REZNAK MO REZNAK

Sure, but Barristan is so far above everyone else it isn't funny. Oh, and STRONG BELWAS is Barristan's equal.

Filler Tier

Arianne

Areo

Arys

Victarion

Aeron

Victarion > Areo and Arys, man. That said, I'd think Balon would need some viewpoint... but christ, there are too many as it is.

[Agro]

Balon's dead, man.

or is he

[spoiler=AFFC]

That being said, anyone feel like Loras' near-death is a massive lie? Seems to be an odd thing to happen offscreen. I guess I have a weird attachment to him since he's a fairly major character in the TV show.

[Parrhesia]

... I'd completely forgotten there was another who was a far more important character. I meant Balon Swann, last seen being delayed from his mission by every feast ever (unless that progressed in Dance of Dragons, which I've yet to reread and recap on)

[BBM]

BUT YOU LEARN SO MUCH HISTORY THROUGH BRAN.

And seriously, if I was Bran, I'd be whiny too.

[Agro]

... I'd completely forgotten there was another who was a far more important character. I meant Balon Swann, last seen being delayed from his mission by every feast ever (unless that progressed in Dance of Dragons, which I've yet to reread and recap on)

Nah, Balon finally makes it to Dorne in one of Arianne's later chapters in Dance. She notes that he'll be "harder to seduce" or something than Arys.

[Parrhesia]

Balon's defining character trait is 'not completely full of shit but in the Kingsguard anyway somehow'. That and 'being only a little worse at archery than Anguy', but whatever. The fact that the Swanns have a son on each side of the conflict is another nice detail. I pay attention to Balon too much.

Thanks for the update, anyway.

[Original Alear]

I really like Griff, primarily because he has served as a mercenary and therefore I can pretend he is like Griffith.

[Rapier]

I just finished reading Jon's last chapter on Book Five... GOD DAMN IT WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAPPEN TO THE BEST AND MOST TALENTED CHARACTERS

[Agro]

I just finished reading Jon's last chapter on Book Five... GOD DAMN IT WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAPPEN TO THE BEST AND MOST TALENTED CHARACTERS

IT ISN'T CONFIRMED, he might actually be alive.

On a completely different note, GRRM was planning a five-year time skip after A Storm of Swords and actually wrote out quite a bit before he realised that he couldn't write stuff without using too many flashbacks, which would explain why AFFC and ADWD might seem to drag out a bit. Apparently it was primarily to let the dragons get bigger so that Dany could hurry the fuck up to Westeros.

I'm wondering, though: if he had gone ahead with this, where do you think everyone would have been at that point?

Just some things from me:

[spoiler=ASOS, AFFC and ADWD spoilers]

Bran: Has become a tree or something. Or he's on his way down to Winterfell, perhaps. Jojen and Meera are probably dead.

Samwell: Somewhere toward to end of his maester's training, perhaps?

Arya: Finishing up FM training.

Sansa: Has been living as Alayne for the past five years, and is about to get married to or is already married to Harry the Heir.

Jon: Has either sent the wildlings to the Free Cities by accident or the wildlings have all settled across the Gift. Not sure on this one.

Stannis: No idea. Too major to have died "offscreen", but what the hell would he have been doing the past five years?

Davos: Presumably having Stannis' babies, either in the North or six feet under.

Brienne: Dead or the BWB.

Jamie: Busy doing Kingsguardly stuff in King's Landing.

Cersei: Ran the kingdom to the ground, only it took five years, not six months.

Aegon: Doesn't exist. I have this weird theory that Aegon wasn't thought of until GRRM realised he couldn't do the timeskip. The whole babyswitch thing seems a little trite - not that I don't like it, because I do - but it feels almost... "inserted".

Tyrion: Has somehow taken over half the Free Cities (who knows, it's Tyrion, after all) and is either at war or allying himself with Dany.

Dany: Having sex with Missandei and raising her dragons.

Theon: Dead.

The Greyjoys: Taken over the Reach somehow? Dunno about these guys, to be honest.

Martells: Quentyn doesn't exist in this version. This seems to be another conveniently-previously-unmentioned character who appeared and disappeared just as fast in order to prove that Dorne hasn't been doing nothing.

Arianne: Not a POV character?

Catelyn: Freys are practically extinct because of her. To be honest, I've no idea how GRRM would have handled this one either.

Melisandre: Again, I can't imagine that she would have done nothing for five years, and most of the important stuff is too important to be flashbacked. She may not have been a POV character in this version.

[Rapier]

I finished reading the fifth book, so I think I can read the spoilers.

Also, about your spoiler:

I don't think Aegon is just a placeholder/inserted-at-random character. Varys has been planning to put him in the Iron Throne, as he stated before killing Tywin's brother. So I think he'll have one major role on the next books, unless he dies and Dany picks up the torch in a sort of plot-twist.

Same for Theon. I think GRRM is going to make him the King of the Seastone Chair, or however you spell it. I find the whole story about the Greyjoy Dude comming from nowhere and claiming he wasn't there when they had the kingsmoot a big Lampshade Hanging. But he's so fucked up that I don't know if this will really become true.

Also, Cersei won't die until Dany kills her - she is the beautiful queen prophetised to kill her later.

While we are talking about Dany, do you know what are those three treasons she'll have/she had?

Also, Jon is most definitely dead. Getting stabbed by three Night's Watch rangers by a knife when they are really intent on killing him and not letting him live to shame the Night's Watch is motive enough to believe that, imo. I personally think he'll become Ghost and wander the woods, helping the Wildlings and fighting agaisnt the Boltons somehow. Maybe Bran will find him/or he'll find Bran. EITHER WAY THAT'S HORRIBLE.

[Agro]

I don't think Aegon is just a placeholder/inserted-at-random character. Varys has been planning to put him in the Iron Throne, as he stated before killing Tywin's brother. So I think he'll have one major role on the next books, unless he dies and Dany picks up the torch in a sort of plot-twist.

Same for Theon. I think GRRM is going to make him the King of the Seastone Chair, or however you spell it. I find the whole story about the Greyjoy Dude comming from nowhere and claiming he wasn't there when they had the kingsmoot a big Lampshade Hanging. But he's so fucked up that I don't know if this will really become true.

Also, Cersei won't die until Dany kills her - she is the beautiful queen prophetised to kill her later.

While we are talking about Dany, do you know what are those three treasons she'll have/she had?

Also, Jon is most definitely dead. Getting stabbed by three Night's Watch rangers by a knife when they are really intent on killing him and not letting him live to shame the Night's Watch is motive enough to believe that, imo. I personally think he'll become Ghost and wander the woods, helping the Wildlings and fighting agaisnt the Boltons somehow. Maybe Bran will find him/or he'll find Bran. EITHER WAY THAT'S HORRIBLE.

LOLOL there's hints that Jon is Azor Ahai, especially the fact that he oddly describes one of his wounds as "smoking". Melisandre is also around, so she could probably work some magic shit. Do you know of R+L=J? That one's a good one.

Dany seems to think her first two treasons were: Mirri Maz Duur (for blood), Jorah (for love), and the third one is yet to happen. It's hard to say, though: GRRM's prophecies are so, so, so ambiguous.

Small correction: Cersei is prophesied to be ousted by a beautiful queen, but killed by the "valonqar", or the "little brother". Jaime and Tyrion are both younger than her (Jaime by a few minutes), and while Tyrion killing her would be very cathartic, I personally see Jaime doing it because that'd be quite poetic.

I don't think Theon is headed for a good place. His names rhymes with weak, after all.

Aegon: Oh no, he'll definitely have a major role NOW, but as to whether or not GRRM had planned to have him from the beginning is a little hazy. People also think that he could be the mummer's dragon of Dany's prophecy, but who knows. I think he's going to die, along with gay Griff.