The Resistance IV

[Bluedoom]

I haven't voted yet/

[Tables]

Apologies for the delay.

Round 4.1: Mission 4.

Team: apocalypseArisen, eclipse, Marth,

Yes: eclipse, Marth,

No: Elieson, BigBangMeteor, apocalypseArisen, Kay,

Result: Yes - 2, No - 4

Proposal Fails.

Leadership passes to Marth.

Marth, propose a team

[eclipse]

Good job guys. Don't screw this up.

[Bluedoom]

...ok?I thought this shouldve passed anyway? Beats me.

You guys wanna say anything before I propose?

[eclipse]

The reason why I asked for a veto was so that people could justify themselves. I think I said more than enough of my thoughts for why I wanted this team. Marth, your turn to spill out your thought process, and keep in mind that alliance chart I posted earlier.

[Bluedoom]

Ok, a late response.

Yes. I am saying I suspect you. I suspect the other 5 people in this game, because I know 2 of them are spies, and the only thing I know, that's 100% confirmed, is that I don't know who either of the 2 spies are. And these voting trends, justifications, and mission outcomes aren't telling me much, except that I have reason to suspect BBM more (for multiple failures), and Rein (for insults then bandwagonning). I guess I could suspect Kay for being on a failed mission too, and not using the card for ITS, when she asked us for the group choice. I could also suspect Proto/Eclipse for inactivity, but that's being resolved. I suspect you for having crappy logic, like Eclipse posted above me, or like the secret code I quoted you on. Now I can suspect Eclipse for controlling the game by controlling the players in an objective way, like Proto did in Res3. Everyone has a reason

What are you on about? Yes there's no reason to trust the other 5 players blindly, but suspecting all of them? My problem is the fact that I should've been on the team if you thought I was scummy, so you could at least get better evidence against me if there was a 2 sab. When you suspect someone, you want evidence backing it up, not just 'hey I just think he's scum' . Reasons like inactivity only go so far as evidence, because in this game, results are the evidence you need. The posts of users count as evidence. If voting trends, justifications and mission outcomes cannot tell you much, then nothing will. But that's besides the point, and I fear I'm going off-topic atm. Hell you can suspect all 5 players, but there'll always be one who looks scummier than the other, si? First thing one wants to do is find out if said player is spy or not.

See, in Round 3 you couldn't suspect Kay for anything really, and you suspected me for inactivity and randomvote. So no, your point doesn't stand then. Mission 3 was obviously an info-gaining mission, and you favoured a 2 sab. And if you suspect one of Rein/BBM to be a spy, and I'm in the team and look pretty scummy, then without ItS, wouldn't you get a 2-sab, by your logic? Wouldn't you at least be able to assume I'm a spy? That and you have two safe players now? Isn't this a pro-resistance move then? So really, I don't know why you went on justifying how you can suspect all 5 players when I'm questioning your ROUND 3 ACTIONS. Oh yeah, besides, if you really were suspicious of Kay for a good reason, you didn't go vocal about it. That's not good.

Wrong. See above.

And ok sure I've been sheeping. That is because up until that point, I was proven to be a supernoob, and needed something to follow while I developed my own train of thought. I'm not trying to blend in on purpose though. I'm trying to find hints and clues in the debacle that is justification, and hope that someone slips up so I can spot it and call someone out on it. I'm not tailored to this sorta thing, so excuse me for not taking charge like Proto and Eclipse and Rein have done.

Sorry, but you are suspicious of Kay ONLY NOW. Then you weren't so much, at least you didn't seem so. Whether you didn't wish to be vocal about it or not, I have no idea.

Ok, so in GSmafia, my first game here, I was a supernoob too. And I sheeped as well. Now maybe if I hadn't post that long bad post I made, I wouldn't have been lynched, but in any case, I WAS MAFIA. Sorry, your argument gives me no reason to not suspect you. See, I did what you did, waffle, sheep opinions through list posts and what not. Yeah, just because you're a supernoob doesn't mean you should sheep/are not a spy.

Haven't I said that, like, a bunch of times? Maybe switch the BBM and Rein around, then read my text. You'll see that I indeed said that. In fact, you were even so gracious as to include my words in your rebuttal. I bolded them for you. I said it first, so I obviously considered it.

And like I said above, I didn't deduce you as for sure being a spy, i deduced you as a possible spy, just like everyone else. And everyone else has a reason to be considered the spy.

Yes but there will always be a difference in terms of scumminess between players. I'm not telling you to blindly trust anyone, but if you rated on a scale of 1-10, everyone as 5 in terms of scumminess, that'd be absurd. So yes, there will always be players who you find more scummy than others, and those are the players who you'd want to question, test out in missions, etc.

The only reasonable thing you said here was the last line. And I agree. It was a setup for BBM. But like I said a few pages back, I misunderstood the ItS card, and thought that it came into affect after their Support/Sabotage vote, not their Yes/No vote.

I apologize for that. I misunderstood that rule.

While I find it weird that you did not notice Rein's co-operation posts, I understand.

She isn't suspicious for not using the card on herself.

Because.

She asked everyone what she should do.

Which is significantly less suspicious than Kay just using the card in Rein without input from us.

Or did I miss something at the Marth School of Detective Study?

Uh what? If she had done it without asking, all eyes would be on her. From a spy's perspective, they don't want all eyes to be on them. Obviously she'd be vocal about it to be less suspicious. Granted BBM's "You are a spy if you don't use card' was not required, if she hadn't used it, that would actually be a pro-resistance move simply because you want to try and catch two spies by a 2 sab. This clears 2 players at once, and gives us a better chance at M4 and 5. Also we cannot out the possibility that she was in fact, a single spy in this mission, and that she didn't want to use the card on herself for this reason.

[Bluedoom]

Anyway, I've been explaining my thought process, but I'll make it clear now:

1. Elieson: IMO, the most scummiest of the lot. He's giving me no reason not to suspect him either, and has even admitted to sheeping.

2. BBM: Eclipse is giving me reason not to trust him so much, but he's still not scummy enough for me to out him this mission. Either ways, for the third member of this mission, its a toss up between him and eclipse.

3. Rein: If I assume Elieson to be spy, then Rein is auto-clear. I haven't really suspected him anyway, and Elieson has been looking like he's trying to pin stuff on him. Works in his favour. He will definetly be a part of my proposal.

4. eclipse: She's been more active than Proto, that's for sure. I'm not quite sure why she thought Elieson was trying to form his opinions better than whatever I was doing when I've just been seeing him sheep other opinions. Still, can't eactly call that buddying either, anyway, its a toss up between her and BBM for the third member in my proposal.

5. Kay: Hasn't said much, unfortunately. I agree that my logic so far has been flawed, and that at times I've been grasping, but I feel like the current situation doesn't work in her favour either.

6. Me: Obv resistance is obv. I'm not leaving myself out.

Either ways, justification time. I voted yes to the last proposal because well, eclipse was making sense and it didn't have Elieson in it.

[BBM]

Was everyone waiting for someone else to post? >_> I voted no because I don't trust Eclipse.

Rein, Kay, Elieson?

[eclipse]

Do you think I typed the Resistance/Spy part for my own amusement?

[Elieson]

I voted no for Rein. You all know why.

More later

[BBM]

Also, Marth, I wouldn't recommend an Eclipse/Rein/Marth proposal, just because it'd likely garner the exact same votes that it did when Eclipse proposed it just now.

[riariadne]

I don't think it's hard to guess what my vote is in the name of.

(protip: information)

[BBM]

Do you think I typed the Resistance/Spy part for my own amusement?

It was a useful post; I'm not denying that. However, simply posting all the possible combinations of scumteams, and all the deductions that can be made from all the different assumptions doesn't clear you in any way. Proto did basically the exact same thing last game.

[eclipse]

It was a useful post; I'm not denying that. However, simply posting all the possible combinations of scumteams, and all the deductions that can be made from all the different assumptions doesn't clear you in any way. Proto did basically the exact same thing last game.

Dear Life,

I'm sorry if I don't do you justice. I'm pretty sure you would've done this several posts ago, and probably included more personal insults and swearing.

Signed,

eclipse

---

Did you bother to look past your own nose at the missions and results? Was it too much of you to ask how that list was compiled? Read your own entry, and try to use this thing called logic to piece together how I drew those conclusions. You can lie about who you think is on which side, but the mission teams and results are always true. The mission you proposed, by the logical outcome of the last three missions, guarantees a spy, and that's assuming you aren't a spy yourself.

Alternately, I am grossly overestimating your ability to reason things objectively, and if so, I apologize. You're tunneling worse than a Dugtrio at this point.

[BBM]

I swear, you're drawing whatever conclusions you want to, off complete bullshit. I never said that anything in your post was false or wrong, or that it was a scummy post. ALL I SAID WAS THAT IT DOESN'T CLEAR YOU AND MAKE YOU AUTO-TOWN. Godfuckingdamnit. You want to know why I'm tunneling you? Stupid posts like that.

And what mission did I propose? The one I officially proposed was in Round 2, and at that point, we didn't have anything objective to go off. The last one I recommended was BBM + Kay + Elieson, which is certainly not guaranteed to have a spy.

[BBM]

BBM + Marth + Elieson*

[eclipse]

I fucking swear you're the most incompetent Spy ever. And here's why:

BigBangMeteor - Spies are one of Rein/Eli (mission 2) and Kay/me (mission 3). Oddly enough, you can't suspect Marth, even if he's never been on a mission.

This was drawn off of missions 2 and 3, respectively. Now, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're a Resistance player whose logic makes Psych look flawless, with my deepest apologies to Psych for using him in this sort of comparison.

Round 2.1: Mission 2 by BigBangMeteor

Team: Elieson, BigBangMeteor, apocalypseArisen,

Yes: Elieson, BigBangMeteor, Kay, Marth,

No: apocalypseArisen, Luster Purge,

Result: Yes - 4, No - 2

Proposal passes

Round 2: Mission 2 Results

Co-operate

Co-operate

Sabotage

Mission fails. Score is now Resistance - 1, Spy - 1

From Mission 2, you conclude that one of Elieson/Rein is a spy, possibly both.

Round 3.2: Mission 3 by Kay

Team: BigBangMeteor, apocalypseArisen, Kay, Luster Purge

Yes: Elieson, BigBangMeteor, apocalypseArisen, Kay, Luster Purge, Marth

No:

Result: Yes - 6, No - 0

Proposal passes

Round 3: Mission 3 Results

Co-operate

Co-operate

Co-operate

Sabotage

Mission fails. Score is now Resistance - 1, Spy - 2

Rein cooperated, and said so publicly. That means one of me or Kay sabotaged it.

Now, if Elieson and Rein were both clear, then there would be no reason for them to sabotage mission 2, which means you're the one who did it. However, I am going under the assumption that you're not a spy for this exercise. Therefore, you suspect one of Elieson or Rein. Mission 3 did not have Elieson in it, and Rein was not the one who put in the sabotage order. Therefore, the spy team cannot be Rein and Elieson, but assuming that you're resistance, it's one of them.

Simultaneously, Kay and I weren't in mission 2, so neither of us could've sabotaged it. Rein did not sabotage mission 3, so assuming you're resistance, then the other spy is one of me/Kay.

So why the fuck are you proposing Rein and Elieson on the same team again? Is there some flaw in the mission results logic that I'm not seeing?

[BBM]

Where the hell did I propose a team with Rein and Elieson in it? When I said, "Rein, Kay, Elieson", that was to ask for their opinions and justifications, since they hadn't posted yet.

[eclipse]

You were extremely unclear about it. I hope that rant gave you a better idea on how the hell I drew that list up. Now use that logic, FFS.

[eclipse]

And Rein kinda did justify his vote - more information. Which I have no problems with.

[BBM]

If it was unclear, my apologies, but it seemed obvious to me what I was talking about. Besides, I made a post earlier saying I would auto-vote no for any team without me or Marth, using the exact same justification that you gave for why my supposed proposal was stupid. Did you honestly think that I'm that stupid?

Also, Rein made his post after I made mine.

[eclipse]

Actually, yes. You had a team with you or Marth, and you voted no anyway. I don't blame you, though; at least we get another round of banter out of it. Whether or not Kay/Elieson will stay on long enough to post coherently is another matter; Kay's usually busy, and Elieson's been having 'net problems (see the Folgore Ranger Draft Challenge).

[BBM]

I said I'd auto-vote no for any team without me or Marth, not that I'd auto-vote yes for any team with me or Marth. Marth or me being on it gives it a chance of succeeding, you and Rein being on it, IMO, makes it a not very good chance.

As for Kay and Elieson, fair enough.

[eclipse]

Cool.

EVERYONE MAKE A TEAM WITH ME OR REIN ON IT SO WE CAN GET A DECENT AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION GOING!

[BBM]

I think you and I have said everything to each other that we possibly can. I doubt our opinions about each other are going to change much. And if Elieson and Kay can't be very active, and considering that Rein never really posts a lot, I doubt we're going to get very much discussion going, particularly since no one's vote seems different from what they've been saying.