The Resistance IV

[Bluedoom]

Elieson, I'd like you to clarify. Why were you thinking so optimistic about catching 2 spies? Why were you so paranoid about a 1 sab when it still has a chance of giving info?

[Elieson]

Elieson, I'd like you to clarify. Why were you thinking so optimistic about catching 2 spies?

Catching 2 spies gives us a 25% chance of failure for mission 4, since we proved 2 people to not be spies. I can't think of a situation that will give us any more information than that.

Why were you so paranoid about a 1 sab when it still has a chance of giving info?

Because 1 Sab clears absolutely nobody, giving us absolutely 0 gaurenteed information to approach mission 4 with.

[Bluedoom]

Tbh, the way I see it.

BBM is in fact, not scum. The scum team comprises of Elieson and Kay, and I feel a lot of posts hint to that. I'll get on to my opinion in a min.

[BBM]

Eclipse, if everyone votes no to get more voting trends, we don't get any voting trends. Voting no simply to prolong the mission is dumb, because it doesn't tell us anything more than if we simply didn't prolong the mission. And Rein begins by saying that we need to get more voting trends, because we can't know who the mafia are, and and then turns about on Mission 3.1 and proposes a team of 4, votes yes, and says he thought that one would work, implying he's got the spyteam already picked out as Elieson + Kay. But then he votes yes for the next mission too, which would have required Elieson + Marth to be the scumteam to work, or Rein + Elieson/Marth.

I'll explain my voting logic, so that other people have more of a clue what my thought processes were, but I don't trust you at all, Eclipse. To me, it seems like you're trying to strongarm this team into having you or Rein in it, and I think that'll be a mistake.

1.1: 2 man misison, it would have been dumb for anyone to sabotage here.

2.1: I was in it, and therefore if it failed, I would be able to narrow down 1/2 of the mafia.

3.1: Here, yes, I wanted some voting trends on both Kay and Marth, so I voted no because there hadn't been a proposal involving them yet. Maybe a bit hypocritical, but I still think it's different from just auto-voting no.

3.2: My gut at this point was telling me that Rein was a spy. I was somewhat sure at that point that Proto was not a spy, so I thought that if this failed with the card on Rein, Kay would probably be a spy. That's what happened, but then I went back and reread the thread, and realized that Proto wasn't actually all that trustworthy.

My list at the moment, from most townie to least, goes:

BBM

Marth

Elieson

Kay

Eclipse

Rein

My ideal team would be me, Marth, and Elieson, but I'll settle for Kay instead of me if I really have to, although I'm still a bit suspicious of him for not wanting to use the card on himself.

[BBM]

I have considered the possibility of an Elieson + Kay lineup, because neither of them have said much the whole game, and Elieson's voting no for the Marth misison and then waffling about and then switching to yes for the Kay misison seemed fishy. On the whole, however, I think Eclipse + Rein look fishier.

[Bluedoom]

Proposal 3.1: ApocalypseArisen, BigBangMeteor, Kay, Luster Purge

What do you guys want me to do with In The Spotlight? I don't like wasting it FMPOV on myself but if that's what the rest of you want I'll do it. I'd prefer to use it on BBM or Rein.

Let us look at Kay's proposal.Obviously I'm not in it because she 'suspects me', but notice how Elieson is not in it. I would think that this would be the main motive, because finding me suspicious was agreed by almost all the players, this can go unnoticed.

You don't want to use it on yourself because you're the only spy. Everyone found Rein suspicious, and so you used it on Rein. And yet even when it was used on Rein, there was a sabotage. Notice how Elieson is not in this sabtoge. BBM is made to be an obvious spy, except I feel its just to frame him and opinions can be swayed easily. BBM's behaviour all-game suggests he's pro-town, tbh. So in my eyes, he's clear.

That leaves one of you and eclipse to be scum. Let's assume you are scum. It makes TOTAL sense for what happened to happen. The spies don't want a double sabotage, and hence you out your scumbuddy Elieson for the proposal. Elieson even tells you to use the card on Rein and not yourself, and many of his posts suggest that you two are connected. On the other hand BBM is smart and suggests you use it on yourself or Rein. You go ahead an use it on Rein- had you used it on yourself, you would've probably 'cleared yourself'. As such, I feel Rein is pretty much cleared and so is BBM. We don't need to worry about eclipse if we're not sure about her.

Because I'm most likely to be resistance at the moment. Considering I've not been part of a proposal yet, there is no proof I'm spy. By BBM's logic, if he's cleared, I'm cleared. Its very much possible that Elieson sabotaged mission 2 and you sabotaged mission 3.

Also I suggest we don't vote for info, like BBM said. Its a waste, and I'd like eclipse to propose this team- Me, BBM and Rein. Its a gambit, but honestly anything s at this point.

[Elieson]

Tbh, the way I see it.

BBM is in fact, not scum. The scum team comprises of Elieson and Kay, and I feel a lot of posts hint to that. I'll get on to my opinion in a min.

I'd like to see some of these posts where I seem scummy. If you're reading my posts and getting scummy feelings from them, you aren't reading them very well.

[Bluedoom]

Also I honestly think Proto wasn't that scummy. He was inactive, just like me, except he made more insightful posts. Look what happened to him in SFMM2- he was called at for being inactive there too. s such, I can't be positive eclipse is scum.

[Bluedoom]

Been limited to using my phone, while at either one of my 2 jobs, for the majority of this game, so please forgive me for not being as active as I should be.

Tbh, we know that at least one of the spies could be Me, BBM, or Rein. Meaning that if we fail this mission to a double sabotage, then we have reason to believe that Rein/BBM would be one (or potentially, both) of the spies, and one of Proto/Marth being a spy (or plausibly, both resistance).

A single sabotage from this selection doesn't give us much, if any, information, as it would present potentially any of the 4 mission candidates to be equally likely to be a spy, leaving us pretty much at a blank for information.

This of course, means that if both spies don't sabotage the mission, we get a point, (2 - 1), but it's that much more confusing. It would essentially nominate myself and Kay as the spies, with no serious backing evidence, other than a hard-to-recover-from score deficit.

I dunno exactly what to vote for. The possibility of a single sabotage concerns me more than anything else, as we'd walk away from a loss learning....very little.

I'm thinking about it, and the more I think about it, the more I think I should've just voted "no" anyway. I'm not sure what to think of Marth yet, at this point. but as far as the voting goes, it leads me to some considerations, and I'm confident that it would've been a serious sabotage had it passed.

You probably voted no because bold. Also, when you say serious sabotage, do you mean 2 sab? Because that benefits resistance and you agreed on that point. BUT if you mean 1 sab then that's contradictory, considering that happened to the second proposal anyway, where Kay was in it and you weren't. Wouldn't this have happened in

I highly suggest Rein. Take it as you will, but I'm positive that at least one of the two (the other being BBM) is a spy.

I'd also request being on the mission in place of BBM, for the sake of pursuing a successful mission. BBM pointed out in his previous post something I didn't think of (that the success/fail vote is made after the target player is in "The Spotlight", not before). You could use the card on me, I don't care. But we aren't going to learn anything new if you use it on me.

I still don't know of P/K/M. In fact, I'm still a but suspicious of Marth. But right now, I'm much more suspicious of Rein, and to a lesser extent, BBM. But I've repeated my position on this several times.

My suggestion:

Rein w. Card - Proto - Kay - Elieson (or BBM, if you prefer. It's your call)

So somehow, you find me, BBM and Rein suspicious, but not Kay? She hadn't even been on a mission yet, how is she clear/trustworthy? Just because she suspects me?

But I agree. Marth is clearly not a spy. With BBM being on 2 failed missions, I don't know if he can exactly be trusted. Rein has been suspicious from the getgo of our first failed mission, and continues to do so.

Leaving Kay, myself, and Proto Eclipse. All we know from this bunch is that everyone but Marth has been on a mission, and one of the 3 of us has been on a failed mission, and could've sab'd.

In order to succeed, we need a 2 clear missions. I propose the next (and last) mission to include me and Marth. The other person, i don't feel should be Rein, and unfortunately for BBM, he's been on 2 failed missions (and 1 passed mission). Probably looking at Kay for the next mission, unless Eclipse can give us a reason to have her on it.

What? I can only be cleared if BBM is cleared, know why?

Because if Rein HAD to co-operate, and you suspect BBM, he'd be the one to sabotage this mission. Also it is stupid to think BBM and Rein are spies because then we'd have had a double sabotage on Mission 2, unless the spies have a secret code to communicate. As such, BBM is that one spy we're searching for, and I would be the second spy. Hence I'm not 'clearly not a spy' because of this.

But what if BBM was cleared? Kay and eclipse have not been in a proposal yet, so them being a 'second spy' would be pretty obvious. The problem here is that 1 of Rein/You/BBM should be a spy, and Kay chose not to use 'In the Spotlight' on herself, and used it on Rein, which is odd, because we also know that you weren't in that proposal. You have contradicted yourself in this last post, and that is a scumtell. Enough evidence for me to conclude that you and Kay are the two spies for this game.

I'd like to trust you, BBM, but I kinda just... don't. I mean, you're making a fair amount of sense and all, but FMPOV you're pretty likely to be a spy. Marth is looking a bit better but I don't regret distrusting him, sorry Marth. If scum could say they were acting inconsistent because of apathy and be left alone about it then that would just be dumb.

Eli, Marth, and me would be my preferred team for this mission. Rein, you need to get in here and talk, being active during the first mission does not count as activity all game and so I'm kind of losing my reason to not be as suspicious of you. I'd like Eclipse to talk too but she has an excuse, so meh.

That card does not look particularly useful. >_>

This is basically supporting Elieson. What's more is the only players active for this game throughout were Kay, Elieson and BBM. And BBM was the victim. Hence it would be very easy to sway opinions, as I said before. Kay, BBM CANNOT BE A SPY, if you suspect Rein as well, because Mission 2 would be double sabotage. All I can see is you've started to not trust BBM and at the same time just made me 'look a little better' when obviously I'm not the spy here.

As such, the proposal I'd be willing to vote for is: Marth, Rein, BBM. I don't mind having eclipse in the team, but I feel Rein is more or less cleared.

[Bluedoom]

Also because I should be trusted(hopefully the resistance thinks so) I'd like eclipse to pass strong leader to me.

[Bluedoom]

You probably voted no because bold. Also, when you say serious sabotage, do you mean 2 sab? Because that benefits resistance and you agreed on that point. BUT if you mean 1 sab then that's contradictory, considering that happened to the second proposal anyway, where Kay was in it and you weren't. Wouldn't this have happened in the first mission proposal for Round 3?

corrected

[Kay]

But what if BBM was cleared? Kay and eclipse have not been in a proposal yet, so them being a 'second spy' would be pretty obvious. The problem here is that 1 of Rein/You/BBM should be a spy, and Kay chose not to use 'In the Spotlight' on herself, and used it on Rein, which is odd, because we also know that you weren't in that proposal. You have contradicted yourself in this last post, and that is a scumtell. Enough evidence for me to conclude that you and Kay are the two spies for this game.

You don't want to use it on yourself because you're the only spy. Everyone found Rein suspicious, and so you used it on Rein. And yet even when it was used on Rein, there was a sabotage. Notice how Elieson is not in this sabtoge. BBM is made to be an obvious spy, except I feel its just to frame him and opinions can be swayed easily. BBM's behaviour all-game suggests he's pro-town, tbh. So in my eyes, he's clear.

Where is this thing about me not wanting to use the card on myself coming from? I don't think I was opposed to it to an unreasonable extent. Obviously I gain nothing from doing that from my own point of view, so I didn't want to use it on myself unless other people wanted me to do that, since it would be really ridiculous if I used it on myself and then people thought that was scummy or didn't think it was useful information or something. I didn't know whether everyone else would rather it be used on me or Rein or someone else, so I asked. You guys told me to use it on Rein, I did that. IIRC no one had a problem with that. Not wanting to use the card on myself = not doing it in contradiction of majority opinion or without asking what else to do? What is it you think I should have done instead?

Also I honestly think Proto wasn't that scummy. He was inactive, just like me, except he made more insightful posts. Look what happened to him in SFMM2- he was called at for being inactive there too. s such, I can't be positive eclipse is scum.

He wasn't that towny either. Lots of people have made some nice long posts now.

This is basically supporting Elieson. What's more is the only players active for this game throughout were Kay, Elieson and BBM. And BBM was the victim. Hence it would be very easy to sway opinions, as I said before. Kay, BBM CANNOT BE A SPY, if you suspect Rein as well, because Mission 2 would be double sabotage. All I can see is you've started to not trust BBM and at the same time just made me 'look a little better' when obviously I'm not the spy here.

We can't count on a double sabotage happening just because it's possible. It's a risk, not a certainty. Ruling out telepathic spies is why the town lost Resistance 2. You said a double sabotage would happen in that case, meaning you think both spies would sabotage. I've seen the opinion before that the spies wouldn't risk that and would be more likely to both cooperate. People have different ideas about what the best decision is, and it's entirely possible that the spies got really lucky. You can't be certain about that.

[eclipse]

SQUEE THANK YOU TABLES~!

If spies were determined by the amount of logical failure in here, there's be at least three of them, all for different reasons. This is what I mean by voting trends. Notice how missions go to .3 and beyond? By looking at who voted yes/no based on who's on which team, it's easier to form theories based on who's on which side.

Kay - Let's see how her opinion changes now that I'm not Proto. Her vote reasoning makes the most sense; however, it's okay to vote no on a team you propose.

Marth - I have one of his votes listed as "because my Rice Krispies told me so", and two more votes look like "baaaaaaa" (1.1, 2.1, and 3.2, respectively). If this were a traditional mafia game, I'd be yelling at you. The fact that you're questioning other people in a game with precious little discussion is something I like.

Elieson - "Can you please tell me where I look like scum" is a line I never want to see from you again. It sounds like you're asking for someone to point out your mistakes so you don't do them again. Can you clarify your position on Rein, since you mentioned that you didn't have a reason not to trust him on Mission 2?

BBM - You get the next post to yourself. This is not something to be proud of.

Rein - Get your ass in here and talk.

Due to BBM, this also means that my conclusions come in the next post.

[Elieson]

I'll for sure reply to Marth's excellent examples of winning logic when I get back to a pc and can quote everything properly.

But to answer Eclipse. Now that your point it out, I see now how easily that can be interpretted scummy.

And why I didn't not trust Rein for Mission2? Everyone said Mission1 means pretty much nothing. And Rein hasn't been on a mission yet. I had the same level of trust for everyone pretty much. Only BBM/Proto were both on a passing mission. So I had little reason to distrust them immediately.

Then Rein mentioned voting no to learn vote patterns. I don't quite understand that at first, and thought it strange that he singled me and BBM out for it, but on the very next proposal, voting yes.

As time went on, it sunk in that spies can support in order to gain trust. After that, I learned more about the game, and just became more paranoid and confused about who exactly to trust on any mission, and figured that gaining information was more important than one more failed mission.

Tl:dr, Rein didn't do anything scummy until after mission2 failed, and he told me to vote no to learn, but hypocritically voted yes himself.

[BBM]

Yes, having more missions to look at does give more information. But only if people vote honestly. If everyone votes no just to get more voting information, nobody learns anything, and we end up just wasting mission proposals. Again, because Rein voted no for those first two missions for no other reason (and because he's barely said anything), we have even less info about him than about everyone else.

And btw, I notice the resistance still lost in that game. I didn't read through Resistance 3, but I did read through Resistance 4, and Proto made the same point there as I'm making right now. He ended up being a spy, but that point was still valid.

Anyways, let's see what you've got to say about me, Eclipse.

[eclipse]

Here's your post, BBM.

You start by getting on people's case for voting no. 1.1 is the epitome of RVS - only the spies have information to go off of. Hell, if I'd been in here, I would've voted no, so that we'd get more information. By having people justify their votes as they go on, we see more of their thought process. Why don't you like this?

I voted yes for that mission for two reasons. The first was, as Rein said, because from my perspective, it was the most likely to go through, and if that had gone through, then it would have been an easy win. The second was that if it had failed, I would then be able to narrow it down to 1 out of 2 people to being one of the spies. Since I know that I am not a spy, I know either Rein or Elieson must be.

Now, I propose that whether we choose Mission 3 or 4, we should use the In the Spotlight card on one of the people in the mission, the one we find most suspicious. Most likely 1 of the 3 people in Mission 2. No one with that card on them would sabotage the mission, because then we'd know that they're a spy. So if it still fails, someone else on that team must be the second spy.

We could save our card to finish it off, but in the case that the next mission fails, it becomes useless because even if we pick a spy to reveal their mission card beforehand, we'd lose anyways.

I quote this, because. . .

But we don't actually catch the spy if we use the card on them. The person with the card on them KNOWS they have the card on them. So if they ARE a spy, it'll force them to co-operate on any mission that is not a game-winner for them. But even if it hit a Resistance member, they would co-operate too. So using it doesn't tell us who a spy is in that way.

Instead of using it on someone we find suspicious, we should use it on someone we're up in the air about. Say we go with a team of 3, Proto (whom I think is the towniest person after myself), Rein (whom I think is the most suspicious), and Elieson/Kay/Marth/BBM. We use the card on the 3rd person, which will basically force them to co-operate. If we are sure that Proto is not going to sabotage either, if the mission still fails, we have Rein as a confirmed spy. If it goes through, we know that either Rein is not a spy, or that he did not want to out himself as such and thus co-operated.

If we want to do the 4-man mission, it's the same principle, but we need two people we are sure are resistance instead.

Keep in mind that if there are not 1/2 people we are not at least 90% sure are resistance, this whole plan falls through.

and then. . .

IMO, use it on either yourself or Rein. But USE IT. If you don't use it, I will take that as a sign that you are scum.

You're saying to use ItS on someone scummy, then someone who's up in the air, then REIN, who you think is the scummiest?

Eclipse, if everyone votes no to get more voting trends, we don't get any voting trends. Voting no simply to prolong the mission is dumb, because it doesn't tell us anything more than if we simply didn't prolong the mission.

Read the past three games. Unanimous yes/no is unhelpful. However, people will vote yes to things they like; you can use those yes votes, along with your impressions, to help you figure things out. Also, I get the sense you don't like being yanked out of control of this game/being yelled at. Deal with it; the only person who's votes resemble any sort of sense is Rein, and he forgot the "you can veto your own mission" thing. Kay gets a slight pass for voting while under the influence of concussion. I really wish Proto had explained his votes more thoroughly; it would help me figure out what the hell was going through his head.

I'll explain my voting logic, so that other people have more of a clue what my thought processes were, but I don't trust you at all, Eclipse. To me, it seems like you're trying to strongarm this team into having you or Rein in it, and I think that'll be a mistake.

So Mission 2 told us that either Elieson, BBM, or Rein is a spy.

Mission 3 told us either Kay, Proto/Eclipse, or BBM is a spy.

The common thread here is me, obviously, but as I know that I am not a spy, in my mind, that clears Marth, because two different spies were behind the two failings, leaving no place for Marth.

Marth can only be a spy if I am, so if you guys trust me, Marth is cleared and should be on the next mission.

TBH, I don't know what's up with Rein. He posted to co-operate, and he messaged to say yes for the mission, but he's made no attempt to defend himself. This either means he's given up, or that he doesn't think that we can pull back even if we have him as an almost confirmed spy. That would imply that the second spy is someone that most people have said they trust. IMO, the people that have been on most people's townie lists, from what I can gather, are Proto and I. I know I'm not a spy, so my gut is pointing to a Proto + Rein spyteam, but it could also be Kay + Rein.

Therefore, I would spring for a team consisting of Elieson, Kay/BBM, and Marth. I would prefer myself, but if you guys don't think I'm trustworthy, having been on both failed missions... that's up to you.

Both came after Mission 3. You started suspecting me after I yelled at the lot of you for doing a terrible job, and to explain yourselves further.

Given your dislike of voting, as well as having game control yanked from you, I am the most suspicious of you. I'm getting newbie vibes from Eli, neutral vibes from Kay, and "buddy with my teammate" vibes from Marth. Unless Rein comes in here and pulls a Death Note!Psych, the scum team in my mind so far is BBM/Marth. If this were a traditional mafia game, I'd be calling for BBM's lynch and a vig shot on Marth.

I'll deal with your next post in a bit; it's too early for me to be drinking, yet I feel a strong urge to empty my whiskey bottle.

[eclipse]

Yes, having more missions to look at does give more information. But only if people vote honestly. If everyone votes no just to get more voting information, nobody learns anything, and we end up just wasting mission proposals. Again, because Rein voted no for those first two missions for no other reason (and because he's barely said anything), we have even less info about him than about everyone else.

And btw, I notice the resistance still lost in that game. I didn't read through Resistance 3, but I did read through Resistance 4, and Proto made the same point there as I'm making right now. He ended up being a spy, but that point was still valid.

Anyways, let's see what you've got to say about me, Eclipse.

"Well shit I'm gonna vote no on missions where me and my buddy aren't in here and yes when they are." Just how dense do you think the spies are? People can be dishonest with voting, but the longer someone talks, the more likely they are to slip up. I agree with Rein's no votes; by making people talk more, it helps to see which side they're on.

This is Resistance 4. The reason why Resistance 3 fell through was partially a numbers thing. Read postgame.

[BBM]

My mistake, I mixed up Resistance numbers. I thought this was 5. Well then, I did read Resistance 3, and IMO, the spies won that game because everyone trusted Proto throughout. Practically nobody even considered the idea that Proto was a spy, except for Proto himself. And because he included himself in his posts theorizing about the spy possibilities, it made everyone trust him even more.

Also, my first post suspecting you was made before you said anything more than "Hey, I'll post later when it's not half an hour before midnight". I started suspecting you before you yelled at everyone for playing the game wrongly. Read again.

As for how I changed my mind on who to use the card on, yes, initially I thought that using it on the scummiest person would be the smartest. Hence, my first post about it. Then I realized that it made more sense to use it on the second scummiest, hence my second post. For my third post, I was slightly suspicious of Kay at that point, so I thought, okay, whatever, if the mission fails with the card on Rein, we'll have Kay instead as a confirmed spy. Then, as I was rereading the thread afterwards, I realized that Proto wasn't actually all that townie, and that a fail didn't confirm Kay as the spy. I'm allowed to change my mind. >_>

You say Rein forgot you could veto your own mission? Convenient, hmm? Not sure if he was in Resistance 1, but he was in 2 and 3, making this his third game at the very least. He just forgot? And you say his votes have the most justification behind them- He made some attempt at defending his 3.1 proposal. He didn't even post in the thread for 3.2 until he had to because of the card!

As for Marth, make up your mind about him. In your post addressing everyone but me, you said while his reasons for voting were trash, he was asking questions, which was good. Then in your last post, you say that Marth and I are the spyteam.

Finally, I just fundamentally disagree with voting no only for more voting trends. It doesn't matter if everyone auto-votes no or if only one person does it. Each person who does it is preventing others from learning about THEIR voting trends. It seems like a scummy strategy to me.

[Elieson]

You probably voted no because bold. Also, when you say serious sabotage, do you mean 2 sab? Because that benefits resistance and you agreed on that point. BUT if you mean 1 sab then that's contradictory, considering that happened to the second proposal anyway, where Kay was in it and you weren't. Wouldn't this have happened in

First off, if you actually read my post, you would be able to tell that from context, I was referring to a double sabotage. And you also may have noticed the part where I mentioned I said *see below*

The possibility of a single sabotage concerns me more than anything else, as we'd walk away from a loss learning....very little.

I obviously don't want a single sabotage, but all we would learn from a double sabotage is we learn that 2 of 4 are spies. That isn't conclusive evidence to win the game, but at least it's something. And it's much more than what we'd learn from a single sab.

And also, what fucking world do I live in that I somehow telepathically know who are spies in this game? If I knew that Kay was a spy, I wouldn't have wanted her on the team at all. Then also, I wouldn't want the other spy on the team, because I'd like to, you know, not be losing.

So somehow, you find me, BBM and Rein suspicious, but not Kay? She hadn't even been on a mission yet, how is she clear/trustworthy? Just because she suspects me?

Hmm, well. Has Kay been on a mission that failed? Nope. Has Kay been on a mission at all? Dare I say, Nope. (Well, at this point, Kay wasn't on a mission as of yet). What sort of conclusive evidence is there? And yes, I know you're gonna say "But Elieson, Kay and I have both not been on a mission. WTF man?" My rebuttal is, that you're suspected by others, which means your in the spotlight. And your logic is obviously deficient.

What? I can only be cleared if BBM is cleared, know why?

Because if Rein HAD to co-operate, and you suspect BBM, he'd be the one to sabotage this mission. Also it is stupid to think BBM and Rein are spies because then we'd have had a double sabotage on Mission 2, unless the spies have a secret code to communicate. As such, BBM is that one spy we're searching for, and I would be the second spy. Hence I'm not 'clearly not a spy' because of this.

But what if BBM was cleared? Kay and eclipse have not been in a proposal yet, so them being a 'second spy' would be pretty obvious. The problem here is that 1 of Rein/You/BBM should be a spy, and Kay chose not to use 'In the Spotlight' on herself, and used it on Rein, which is odd, because we also know that you weren't in that proposal. You have contradicted yourself in this last post, and that is a scumtell. Enough evidence for me to conclude that you and Kay are the two spies for this game.

If BBM is cleared, and Rein forcibly voted Support for the mission, and there was still a sabotage, then do you know what that means? That means, oh gee, that Rein still isn't cleared from being a spy. It also means that everyone in the game is still under investigation to be a spy. Even me. Even you. I find it rather stupid that with Rein cooperating, and me off the mission, that you automatically deduce me as being a spy. What if Rein cooperated, just to not blow his cover, hmm?

I see your and return to you one :facepalm. Do you realize how stupid this sounds? I bolded the part that you posted that you dissappoint me the most with. There's obviously no secret code involved. And please tell me how you are so quick to dismiss the possibility of one spy voting to support the mission in order to deceive everyone? It's in the rules, you know. Even I figured it out, and I'm pretty noob at this too. I said it many many times. That at most one of P(Now Ec)/K/M COULD be a spy, but at least one of B/R/El could be a spy too.

And I ran out of crayons and puppets to explain this point in a way that you might understand. Kay Asked Everyone! She clearly said, and I quote,

What do you guys want me to do with In The Spotlight? I don't like wasting it FMPOV on myself but if that's what the rest of you want I'll do it. I'd prefer to use it on BBM or Rein.

She didn't edit her post, so it would be kind of hard for her to hide that.

This is basically supporting Elieson. What's more is the only players active for this game throughout were Kay, Elieson and BBM. And BBM was the victim. Hence it would be very easy to sway opinions, as I said before. Kay, BBM CANNOT BE A SPY, if you suspect Rein as well, because Mission 2 would be double sabotage. All I can see is you've started to not trust BBM and at the same time just made me 'look a little better' when obviously I'm not the spy here.

As such, the proposal I'd be willing to vote for is: Marth, Rein, BBM. I don't mind having eclipse in the team, but I feel Rein is more or less cleared.

It is easy to sway opinions. Rein swayed my opinion when he insulted me and BBM for being noobs and voting yes, when we could learn soooooo much from voting patterns. I'm new to this. I'm still learning. I think I understand it hella better though. I read through Resistance III, and learned that the best objective debater in the game is the leader, spy or not, among other things. (We could learn more just from collecting a "Who would you send on X mission" from everyone, rather than voting patterns though, IMO.

And please tell me, again, how BBM isn't a spy? I'd really enjoy reading this over a bowl of Lucky Charms. It actually makes me laugh. I'd probably spew milk out of my nose and make my kids laugh, and that would be worth it.

All this being said.

Marth, it's your shady logic that I don't have 100% faith in. I'm not saying I suspect you a shitton, but right now, it's as I see it, from least to most.

Elieson: I'm 100% sure that there was no scum on my card.

Eclipse: Subbing in for Proto, who decieved everyone last game. Eclipse is a fantastic debater, and I'm not sure how to interpret it. I want to see more subjectivity and less possibility in her debates.

Marth: Yes, I think you're 3rd safest. Why? I think you're just sucking at arguing. I know I am, so I acknowledge the possibility of being able to defend yourself poorly.

Kay: I've said yes to every mission that was proposed, and Kay proposed one with herself. I was more inclined the believe that Rein/BBM were both spies, and would both be caught. I misunderstood the card that was played, and that was my fault, but still. I supported it. Not gonna lie, but I just think Kay hasn't been around enough to defend herself. But she asked who to use the card on, and wanted to gather all our opinions. That's not scummy to me.

___I'd propose a team of all the above members for Mission 5, if we make it that far___

BBM: Being on 2 failing missions is pretty scummy. But he was on one passing mission. And yes, even if he did vote to sabotage the first mission that I placed him on (which TBH, was completely random because everyone said it didn't matter, so I just picked them because I didn't see this alleged importance of voting patterns).

Rein: After throwing around some "persuasive" suggestions, then dissappearing, I had good reason to suspect him. Plus, on the 2nd mission, he starts voting no, and missions fail. I didn't think of it at the time, but if he suspected BBM Lied on mission 1, and Rein knew he was a spy, that could jeopardize his position as a spy, and pretty much lose the game. Plus, he's on a mission, and all of a sudden, failure.

So yes, Marth. I believe your logic is flawed. I also believe that Eclipse, although fantastically awesome and well informed and extremely helpful, could be a spy too. But I believe everyone (except myself) could be a spy, because there's no conclusive evidence to narrow it down beyond a single sabotage in 2 missions.

[eclipse]

All that. AND TWO POSTS. Marth, I see you in here. Start responding.

BBM, I'd like to see you come up with something coherent right before going to bed. Unless you're doing your posts right before going to bed, in which case, I suggest not doing that. Will address the rest in a bit.

[BBM]

His point is that if both Rein and I were spies, as there is no code or communication, we would probably both have sabotaged Mission 2, because we wouldn't know what our partner was doing. As that did not happen, he's saying that one of us might be a spy (Rein) but definitely not both.

[BBM]

Got ninja'd.

Umm... everything I've said so far has been when I'm fully coherent. What is it that I've been saying that's doesn't make sense? Assuming I am resistance (which I know I am), Marth is cleared. So any 3-man mission without either of us is doomed to fail because it must include at least one spy. It makes it sound like Marth and I are buddying up, but there is no other way to make it sound like. Marth's logic hasn't been amazing, no. But despite that, I know he has to be resistance.

On a different note, the next two days are going to be a bit hectic for me; I don't know how much I will be able to post. Sorry guys!

[Bluedoom]

All that. AND TWO POSTS. Marth, I see you in here. Start responding.

BBM, I'd like to see you come up with something coherent right before going to bed. Unless you're doing your posts right before going to bed, in which case, I suggest not doing that. Will address the rest in a bit.

Yes I've been responding to Elieson's post atm. I still don't see why you think I'm buddying BBM: I wouldn't make it that obvious if I was a spy.

Also I would like Kay to post her opinions of the players before I reply to her.

[eclipse]

My goodness, did you read postgame for Resistance 3? The part that specifically says that the numbers were in favor of the spies?

You are the absolute WORST at saying that you were suspicious of me early. Here, let me refresh your memory:

So Mission 2 told us that either Elieson, BBM, or Rein is a spy.

Mission 3 told us either Kay, Proto/Eclipse, or BBM is a spy.

The common thread here is me, obviously, but as I know that I am not a spy, in my mind, that clears Marth, because two different spies were behind the two failings, leaving no place for Marth.

Marth can only be a spy if I am, so if you guys trust me, Marth is cleared and should be on the next mission.

TBH, I don't know what's up with Rein. He posted to co-operate, and he messaged to say yes for the mission, but he's made no attempt to defend himself. This either means he's given up, or that he doesn't think that we can pull back even if we have him as an almost confirmed spy. That would imply that the second spy is someone that most people have said they trust. IMO, the people that have been on most people's townie lists, from what I can gather, are Proto and I. I know I'm not a spy, so my gut is pointing to a Proto + Rein spyteam, but it could also be Kay + Rein.

Therefore, I would spring for a team consisting of Elieson, Kay/BBM, and Marth. I would prefer myself, but if you guys don't think I'm trustworthy, having been on both failed missions... that's up to you.

"Well, I think Proto's a spy because everyone trusts him" is extremely shitty logic. Furthermore I can go "well I know I'm Resistance" and be just as credible. In my case, I'm positive I'm Resistance - Tables remembered to include me in the role PM on time. Since there's no investigation, there's no way of Resistance players knowing each other alliances for certain, so we need to talk. But. . .

Finally, I just fundamentally disagree with voting no only for more voting trends. It doesn't matter if everyone auto-votes no or if only one person does it. Each person who does it is preventing others from learning about THEIR voting trends. It seems like a scummy strategy to me.

It also gives everyone more time to discuss things, and another subject to discuss about. Saying people are scummy because of this tells me you're either a Spy, or you are woefully misinformed. Now, what do you have against discussion?

As for how I changed my mind on who to use the card on, yes, initially I thought that using it on the scummiest person would be the smartest. Hence, my first post about it. Then I realized that it made more sense to use it on the second scummiest, hence my second post. For my third post, I was slightly suspicious of Kay at that point, so I thought, okay, whatever, if the mission fails with the card on Rein, we'll have Kay instead as a confirmed spy. Then, as I was rereading the thread afterwards, I realized that Proto wasn't actually all that townie, and that a fail didn't confirm Kay as the spy. I'm allowed to change my mind. >_>

The answer is "you'd best be damn sure the other three people are Resistance, or you waste a card." In your case, you weren't sure of Proto's alignment, and yet you approved the mission. Come to think of it, you approve everything. I really don't like this, as it looks like you're okay with everyone.

You say Rein forgot you could veto your own mission? Convenient, hmm? Not sure if he was in Resistance 1, but he was in 2 and 3, making this his third game at the very least. He just forgot? And you say his votes have the most justification behind them- He made some attempt at defending his 3.1 proposal. He didn't even post in the thread for 3.2 until he had to because of the card!

Apparently, so does the rest of the game. I'm the only Resistance member because I thought of this. LOVELY~! Though I do agree that Rein needs to start posting; he had enough time for SFMM2!

As for Marth, make up your mind about him. In your post addressing everyone but me, you said while his reasons for voting were trash, he was asking questions, which was good. Then in your last post, you say that Marth and I are the spyteam.

Unlike you, I take both the bad and good when it comes to talking about people. In Marth's case, his "bad" is much worse than his "good".

Lastly. . .

IMO, use it on either yourself or Rein. But USE IT. If you don't use it, I will take that as a sign that you are scum.

Don't threaten people like this. It's scummy at best and immature at worst.

I don't trust you at all, and unless you post some gr9mazig logic, will most likely veto every single mission with you and Marth in it.

[eclipse]

Yes I've been responding to Elieson's post atm. I still don't see why you think I'm buddying BBM: I wouldn't make it that obvious if I was a spy.

Also I would like Kay to post her opinions of the players before I reply to her.

Because you managed to vote once with no thought and twice with sheepish reasons. This isn't a good sign, and the fact that you're banking hard on BBM being Resistance is foolish, at best. Stand up for yourself.