The Resistance IV

[eclipse]

The more time, the better.

[Kay]

Voted no because at this point, I thought the information would be particularly useful. Basically checking to see whether anyone voted yes when previous posts of theirs contradicted that, since I thought the spies might be more likely to take a gamble like that when they only need one more mission.

[Bluedoom]

Yeah, I still have no idea about what's going on, but whatever. Keep going, let's discuss. >.<

[eclipse]

I hope Elieson's Internet fixes itself. Otherwise, we have to guess as to why he voted no.

[Elieson]

Ok, quick reason, while I'm online. I'm doing immigration paperwork to keep my wife/son immigrated.

Here we go.

While still suspicious of Rein, and BBM, I wanted to see what would happen if there were any yes-voters. Eclipse, you surprised me with a Yes vote, being as you openly reminded us that we can vote no on our propositions.

BBM and Rein both voted no, which after all this, was expected. As eclipse pointed out though, BBM being a spy is heavily linked to Marth being a spy, and with him being on 2 sabotage'd missions, and Rein openly cooperating on a failing mission, I'm slightly less suspicious of Rein.

I'd like to see what Marth proposes, but my suspicions of Rein are diminishing, while those of BBM are on the rise.

Eclipse, why did you vote yes again?

[eclipse]

Because the only other person who I'd trust to come up with a half-competent team is Rein.

[Bluedoom]

Ok eclipse, if you're cool with it now, I'll propose my team, but before that:

I know why I voted yes.

Eclipse voting yes is reasonable enough. She thought the team would go through.

Rein, Kay and Elieson all voting no for more information is stupid, simply because we've gathered no information. If you had wanted to do that, you should've done it in M3(and even there Rein was more reasonable). In fact I don't like taking your reasoning of more info- if you didn't like the proposal, just say it already. Only thing we've gathered is that eclipse and BBM seem to be on opposite sides, like we didn't know that.

BBM voting no also makes sense, however. Its been an eclipse vs BBM so far.

[eclipse]

I don't think it was stupid; it gives us more time to talk things out. . .and I'd be rather surprised if Rein voted yes. We know there's Resistance members who vetoed it, though.

[riariadne]

Rein, Kay and Elieson all voting no for more information is stupid

You are 100% completely and utterly wrong on this.

What if, for example, BBM had voted yes despite posts indicating not? That'd be very suspicious, and be extremely good information to have. Additionally, what do we honestly lose from things like this? One proposal out of five isn't a big deal, especially when the trade off can be so huge.

[BBM]

I don't mind Elieson's information no-vote as much, because it's purpose was to determine something much more specific than Rein's or Kay's were. And even Rein's no-vote, although not something I would agree with, is something that he's done fairly frequently. AFAIK, that was the first time Kay voted in that way. Feels kinda strange that she suddenly did that now, after several ones where she did not.

[Kay]

I don't mind Elieson's information no-vote as much, because it's purpose was to determine something much more specific than Rein's or Kay's were. And even Rein's no-vote, although not something I would agree with, is something that he's done fairly frequently. AFAIK, that was the first time Kay voted in that way. Feels kinda strange that she suddenly did that now, after several ones where she did not.

Eclipse got people to post more, so there's actually other information besides just votes to use as well. Besides, I already explained why I thought information might be more valuable in this mission.

[Elieson]

So we need Marth's input now, since he's team captain and all.

[Elieson]

Wow. I just realized, while rereading page 11.

Logic is shit here.

Let me throw this out there. Assuming I'm Resistance, that leaves me to continue thinking that BBM And/Or Rein are spies, based on M2, and that anyone except Rein is a spy, based on M3. Now, had we subbed in Marth over Rein/BBM, we could have some potentially different story to work with, but we didn't. Assuming Me and BBM are clear, then Rein is for sure a spy, and the other is Kay/Eclipse. Assuming Me and Rein are clear, then BBM is the most obvious spy on the planet, and the other is Kay/Eclipse/Marth.

Assuming that Me and Marth are clear, then BBM is most very likely a spy, and Rein/Kay/Eclipse all share potential scumminess equally.

From my standpoint, I have better reason to assume that BBM is a spy over everyone else, simply by following statistics. My other thought is that out of the other 4, (Based on Res3, which Eclipse recommended that I read), Eclipse could be a spy because of misleading us. However, the more I consider it, the more I doubt that Eclipse would want to present that image of herself, especially here. Therefore, I have reason to assume that Eclipse is less likely to be a spy. Leaving Rein, Kay, and Marth. Marth, if BBM was indeed the saboteur from the previous missions, and simply lied on M1 to preserve innocence, then you're essentially cleared. Rein could be a spy, having only one opportunity to sabotage and get away with it scot-free. Kay could be a spy simply because she has nothing else to go on. All three of your voting patterns are explained, but there's something missing.

I know it's not my turn to propose a mission yet, but it will be next. I'm sitting on Me/Eclipse/NotBBM for the next mission selection, assuming we don't put this next proposal through and issue a failure. In fact, I recommend to Marth that Me and Eclipse represent 2 slots, while BBM represent 0 slots for his upcoming proposal.

[BBM]

Obviously I've got the highest chance of being a spy, I was part of every single mission proposal except the last one by Eclipse, only one of which I made myself.

Also, your logic about why Eclipse is not a spy doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure if I'm reading your logic correctly, but what I'm getting is "she seems suspicious, but she wouldn't want to look suspicious, so she must be a resistance". What?

[Elieson]

"Here. Read the Resistance game where one of the spies was the guy who maintained his cool and promoted the most discussion for the entire game." Doesn't seem like the thing that someone trying to promote discussion would say.

If that makes sense, I mean. If it doesn't, I can try to explain it some other way.

[BBM]

I just scanned the thread quickly, and can't find any post that Eclipse made saying the comment in quotations. I suppose that if he did, however, your logic makes sense.

[Elieson]

SQUEE THANK YOU TABLES~!

If spies were determined by the amount of logical failure in here, there's be at least three of them, all for different reasons. This is what I mean by voting trends. Notice how missions go to .3 and beyond? By looking at who voted yes/no based on who's on which team, it's easier to form theories based on who's on which side.

Kay - Let's see how her opinion changes now that I'm not Proto. Her vote reasoning makes the most sense; however, it's okay to vote no on a team you propose.

Marth - I have one of his votes listed as "because my Rice Krispies told me so", and two more votes look like "baaaaaaa" (1.1, 2.1, and 3.2, respectively). If this were a traditional mafia game, I'd be yelling at you. The fact that you're questioning other people in a game with precious little discussion is something I like.

Elieson - "Can you please tell me where I look like scum" is a line I never want to see from you again. It sounds like you're asking for someone to point out your mistakes so you don't do them again. Can you clarify your position on Rein, since you mentioned that you didn't have a reason not to trust him on Mission 2?

BBM - You get the next post to yourself. This is not something to be proud of.

Rein - Get your ass in here and talk.

Due to BBM, this also means that my conclusions come in the next post.

BBM, I was kinda hinting at this post right here.

[Elieson]

"Here. Read the Resistance game where one of the spies was the guy who maintained his cool and promoted the most discussion for the entire game." Doesn't seem like the thing that someone trying to promote discussion would say. If they were the spy.

If that makes sense, I mean. If it doesn't, I can try to explain it some other way.

Upon rereading my post, I think I forgot to link my previous 2 posts together with the bolded and underlined statement above. But, yea. That's what I was referring to.

[BBM]

But IIRC, he'd actually meant to link to Resistance 2. And besides, even if he was pointing to that game, he pointed it out to argue for the benefits of voting no to get more information, not to specifically point out how Proto played in that game.

[Elieson]

Well excuse me for interpreting her post differently.

[BBM]

[Bluedoom]

Um, Kay, do you have anything to say at this point?

[eclipse]

Anyone, ANYONE with questions about this chart, and how I came up with it should ask

It's all based on mission results. UGH. Accusing people of being scummy because they promote discussion. . .my brain is too full of WTF to process that properly. If it wasn't for the fact that I feel like utter garbage ATM, I'd probably start screaming again.

Kay, get in here.

[Kay]

If you had wanted to do that, you should've done it in M3(and even there Rein was more reasonable).

I wasn't about to waste my own chance as leader. Sorry, but this isn't making a lot of sense to me.

Anyone, ANYONE with questions about this chart, and how I came up with it should ask

Yeah, I did think of something odd about it, actually. Why did you post it?

[BBM]

Yeah, I did think of something odd about it, actually. Why did you post it?

Huh? It doesn't help the spies in any way that I can think of, and allows resistance members to make more informed proposals and votes. Why wouldn't she post it?