Rate the Units, FE9 Edition: Endgame

[ZemZem]

For fucking sake, why are we even arguing about this? Who cares what order the units ended up? Does FE9: RTU change how you feel about a certain character. Why should it - bother - you that certain people value a character more than you think s/he deserves? This RTU shouldn't change the way you play or see a character. So stop arguing about it already. This is pointless, all right? So seriously, get a life, all of you who are crying about this.

Basically this. Who gives a shit if your favorite character that you used in every fucking playthrough is rated fairly low because they're not so good in LTC playthroughs? It's not that big a deal. I decided against retallying, because not only would it be a waste of my time, but I'm pretty sure most of you will continue to gripe and bitch.

[NinjaMonkey]

but I'm pretty sure most of you will continue to gripe and bitch.

Which is why I find this thread to be so entertaining...

[eclipse]

The less people accept reality, the more entertaining it is for the rest of us.

[OrangeCrush980]

Volke > Haar. Volke is the best thief, while Haar is crappy lategame filler.

[Colonel M]

Volke > Haar. Volke is the best thief, while Haar is crappy lategame filler.

If by "best" you mean "nearly irrelevant", "crappy" you mean "good", and ">" you mean "<", then yes your post makes perfect sense.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Madam Red

[bottlegnomes]

theres only one possible solution

snowy likes crack and whores

Wouldn't he like Vika then?

[Snowy_One]

If any of the other swordsmasters (or mono-sword-wielders) could manage what Mia does when built to use the SS, I would gladly support them getting it. I have yet to hear of any serious arguments for Zihark, Stefan, or Ike being able to use it and Mist has been the only other mono-sword-user mentioned as being capable of this.

Besides, the amount of abnormal work required to get Mia good with the SS: Give her dusts or mage band.

Amount of abnormal work to get Reyson refreshing more than 3 units every turn while shifted: Careful positioning and usage of your entire team with the goal of a low turn clear in mind.

[Lord Raven]

the way you word it almost sounds like one suggestion is dumber than the other!

[Loki Laufeyson]

Using Reyson. A Guide.

Get the Knight Ring and equip it on Reyson.

Possibly give him the Boots.

If the above did not happen, shove him.

If the player so desires, give him all the Laguz Stones.

Rinse and repeat.

Srsly, its not hard! I dont go for LTC stuff nor do serious careful planning to use Reyson. YOU JUST FREAKING USE HIM!! Omg....

[PKL]

Reyson is so bad! Letting marcia/jill full move again is terrible. Even if you made SS!mia move again he isnt worth shit when i could be deploying rhys instead! At least rhys can damage things!

[ZemZem]

Florina, the Ephraim picture in your sig is fucking amazing.

Also, just support Ilyana and Mia together and let them solo every chapter starting from 9. Screw Marcia.

[Hawk King]

Snowy, all of your arguments are hypocritical.

You say its stupid and pointless to give Mist Bexp and arms scrolls just so she can use a weapon with only 20 uses.

And the you gloat about how awesome Mia is WITH THE SAME 20 USE WEAPON, when we give her all the spirit dusts and the mage band and the Bexp needed to get her up to par.

Yes Mia can be good with all that stuff but WHATS THE POINT? In the end, she is just an average unit in an average class.

As far as Reyson goes, this is a SRPG. STRATEGY RPG. Strategy requires thinking and planning. If you really cant fit a dancer into a strategy, this might not be the game series for you...

[Loki Laufeyson]

Florina, the Ephraim picture in your sig is fucking amazing.

I know right? Ephraim, Sax Master.

You say its stupid and pointless to give Mist Bexp and arms scrolls just so she can use a weapon with only 20 uses.

And the you gloat about how awesome Mia is WITH THE SAME 20 USE WEAPON, when we give her all the spirit dusts and the mage band and the Bexp needed to get her up to par.

Mia using the Sonic Sword and Runesword = lolololol srsly is she ever reaching enough magic to ever use those? Mist only needs like one Arms Scroll anyway. Bam, shes set. And Hammerne exists. So that 20 use weapon becomes 40 uses. Plus Runesword.

So yeah in short: Mist is easier to get to that point. Even if Mia is around for a little longer.

Yes Mia can be good with all that stuff but WHATS THE POINT? In the end, she is just an average unit in an average class.

Been sayin' it for years now. Just saiyan. super saiyan.

[PKL]

Except why use Sonic Sword Mia or Mist w/e when you have much superior choices. Like...FORGED HAND AXES AND JAVELINS. Basically, why go through all the trouble of gluing a Mage Band to Mia and giving her spirit dusts (LOL) just for a 7 move unit with shitty durability?

[aku chi]

If any of the other swordsmasters (or mono-sword-wielders) could manage what Mia does when built to use the SS, I would gladly support them getting it. I have yet to hear of any serious arguments for Zihark, Stefan, or Ike being able to use it and Mist has been the only other mono-sword-user mentioned as being capable of this.

Come C18, Stefan and Ike are about as capable as Mia when wielding the Sonic Sword. But why are we ignoring the Elephant in the room: Tanith? Tanith has solid starting magic, a decent Mag growth, a sufficient weapon rank, and the capability to wield the Flame Lance (making her a better, albeit generally non-optimal, investment for the Spirit Dust). And let's not forget Tanith's +2 mov and canto advantage over Mia. The Sonic Sword even starts in her inventory. Is IS trying to send a message?

Mist only needs like one Arms Scroll anyway. Bam, shes set. And Hammerne exists. So that 20 use weapon becomes 40 uses. Plus Runesword.

Runesword Mist. That's funny. Have fun doubling nothing but Generals with that 19 Wt sword. Also, the Sonic Sword only provides 1 Wexp. So even if you did use the Hammerne on the Sonic Sword and let Mist use it exclusively, she'd still be short of the A-rank she'd need to wield the Runesword.

(And FYI, it takes two Arms Scrolls to get from D Swords to B Swords.)

Edited May 26, 2012 by aku chi

[Colonel M]

If any of the other swordsmasters (or mono-sword-wielders) could manage what Mia does when built to use the SS, I would gladly support them getting it. I have yet to hear of any serious arguments for Zihark, Stefan, or Ike being able to use it and Mist has been the only other mono-sword-user mentioned as being capable of this.

I'm really too lazy to dig up the posts, but I remember stating something like a 20/1 Ike being able to whip out the SS and ORKO Wyvern Knights even with his paltry Mag.

Base Stefan has 8 Mag alone, and 20/1 Mia gets to like 7.6. Nevermind that 20/1 Mia is coming either at or later than when Stefan is around, so it already looks shitty enough to do it. Nevermind base Tanith has 10 Mag, 45% growth with a Mage band, flight, Movement, Re-move, and actually can use her Mag for Laguz Lance too. Oh yes, and there's always Mist. Mist would be better to put it in, since she actually does something significant with it (20/1 Mist can actually ORKO Wyvern Lords with 2 Sonic Sword swings, and that doesn't even come close to assuming Spirit Dusts and Mage Band on her).

There's a reason why Mia is the laughingstock for me, and it kind of pains me too since Interceptor actually did some things useful with her. You merely made her a glorified Mist that had overkill Spd and lacked a mount and staves.

Fuck aku chi beat me to the punch.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Colonel M

[Lord Raven]

Ike 2RKO's the boss of chapter 25 with roughly average Magic and a Sonic Sword

bearing in mind he is a particularly tough wyvern

but of course i'm not taking snowy seriously and i think snowy has every right to use sonic sword mia

Edited May 26, 2012 by Lord Raven

[ZemZem]

I really don't get the argument about Mia with the magical swords. If anything, it only proves that she needs them to actually kill enemies because if she uses anything else, she fails at it.

[Loki Laufeyson]

(And FYI, it takes two Arms Scrolls to get from D Swords to B Swords.)

Forges help her get to C before Tanith even shows up. Just saiyan.

[Snowy_One]

Using Reyson. A Guide.

Get the Knight Ring and equip it on Reyson.

Possibly give him the Boots.

If the above did not happen, shove him.

If the player so desires, give him all the Laguz Stones.

Rinse and repeat.

Srsly, its not hard! I dont go for LTC stuff nor do serious careful planning to use Reyson. YOU JUST FREAKING USE HIM!! Omg....

... *facepalm* Did you even read the rest of the topic? Here. I'm going to restate this nice and clear with numbered points and just simply refer to them to make this go faster.

1) I do not like using dancers in general as I would rather have another combat unit.

2) Reyson is shifted for only 4 turns each map (assuming a 9 turn clear on average) or 6 turns if you use a gem.

3) Reyson will not be refreshing four units always, even when he is shifted. On average, throughout the chapter, he will refresh somewhere between 1 and 2 units per turn on average even when following the 'ideal' strategies.

4) There are only four uses of the laguz stones. They help, but are not a panecia.

Using Reyson. A Guide.

Get the Knight Ring and equip it on Reyson.

Possibly give him the Boots.

If the above did not happen, shove him.

If the player so desires, give him all the Laguz Stones.

Rinse and repeat.

Srsly, its not hard! I dont go for LTC stuff nor do serious careful planning to use Reyson. YOU JUST FREAKING USE HIM!! Omg....

Points 1, 2, 3, and 4.

Reyson is so bad! Letting marcia/jill full move again is terrible. Even if you made SS!mia move again he isnt worth shit when i could be deploying rhys instead! At least rhys can damage things!

Points 1 and 3.

Snowy, all of your arguments are hypocritical.

You say its stupid and pointless to give Mist Bexp and arms scrolls just so she can use a weapon with only 20 uses.

Mist needs those scrolls to have any combat at all. Mia already has the things she needs to make the SS work as a weapon for her minus the magic score which can be fixed via the mage band. There are only three units in the game who could use the band for non-SS purposes, those being Soren, Ilyana, and Tormod. Soren's magic score is already very high, Ilyana would rather have a speedwing/band, which leaves Tormod. Since it is unlikely you will deploy more than two mages for any reason, this leaves either the band or dusts open for Mia.

Also, if you believe the siege tomes to be super-valuable, wouldn't it make sense to have your mage use at least one scroll, if not both, for those?

As far as Reyson goes, this is a SRPG. STRATEGY RPG. Strategy requires thinking and planning. If you really cant fit a dancer into a strategy, this might not be the game series for you...

Points 1, 2, and 3.

Mia using the Sonic Sword and Runesword = lolololol srsly is she ever reaching enough magic to ever use those? Mist only needs like one Arms Scroll anyway. Bam, shes set. And Hammerne exists. So that 20 use weapon becomes 40 uses. Plus Runesword.

So yeah in short: Mist is easier to get to that point. Even if Mia is around for a little longer.

Mia's average magic score ranges between 6-12 post-promotion, which is about 8-16 with the band. I'm going to split the difference here and say it's 12 average post-promo when she's using the SS. The SS grants 10 MT making it 22 MT. Mia can also get an additional 4 MT via supports to make it 26 MT. If we give Mia the other magic items that jumps it further to 30 MT (26-34 depending on level). Granted, this is not terribly impressive when compared to Mist who goes from 27-36 before supports/items, but there is one thing Mia can do that Mist cannot.

Wrath. Now, to be fair, wrath is not teathered to Mia and Mist can take wrath for herself. However, even when wrath is active, Mist's critical rate is not very high (relative to others with wrath) and it will still be largely a coin-toss as to if she will critical or not. Mist's MT should be high enough (if the rumors about her amazingness with the sword are to believed) to reliably 1RKO without it and she cannot really use it with melee weapons due to low STR and weapon-rank.

Mia can use wrath out of combat though, as any other swordsmaster can. She can achieve a roughly 60-75% critical rate when wielding the sword which will help with her lower MT as well as use said wrath once the SS is gone or not needed for any reason.

So why can't other sword-users use it?

Ike gets between 7-11 magic naturally, 9-15 with the band, but only 1 from supports unless he supports both Reyson and Soren. This means he is coming in at 3 MT less than Mia (not to mention 15 less critical). The SS isn't unusable on him, just not the best.

Zihark gets no attack unless he supports Brom and has between 4 and 7 MAG naturally, 6-11 banded. This means he comes in with 5-8 less MT on average than Mia.

Stefan doesn't get much from the band and gets only 1 attack from supports, but has higher base. If you intended to use the SS right away, he would be better than Mia, but he would also be doing so without Wrath which leaves him reliant on his natural critical rate.

Lucia joins late and is lulzy, but she also has a nice MAG stat... and no real chance for the band or attack-boosts from supports.

Since Mia has both the highest MAG stat and makes the best use of wrath out of the group, it stands to reason that, as far as non-Mist SS users go, Mia > Ike > Stefan > Zihark > Lucia.

Except why use Sonic Sword Mia or Mist w/e when you have much superior choices. Like...FORGED HAND AXES AND JAVELINS. Basically, why go through all the trouble of gluing a Mage Band to Mia and giving her spirit dusts (LOL) just for a 7 move unit with shitty durability?

If you're playing Mia already, why not give her the SS? I'm not saying 'deploy Mia soley for the SS'. I don't think I've ever said that at any point. I've said 'if you deploy Mia, she can make use of the SS well'.

But why are we ignoring the Elephant in the room: Tanith?

Tanith has access to javelins and the Flame Lance.

I really don't get the argument about Mia with the magical swords. If anything, it only proves that she needs them to actually kill enemies because if she uses anything else, she fails at it.

There are only three ranged swords in the game. The SS, RS, and Ragnell. Since Ragnell is Ike-locked and only comes for the final 2.05 chapters and the RS comes similarly late, any mono-sword user before then has only one choice if they want to make a ranged attack. Just so happens Mia is, like, the best or second best at using it.

[Lord Raven]

and at this point i will stop responding to you, snowy, for that shows that i acknowledge your idea for a sonic sword mia as a rational one. and i advise others to follow the same path i have

all we can do from here on out is continue to make fun of the idea of a sonic sword mia

[Snowy_One]

So let me get this straight. I pointed out that the SS is viable on the mono-sword units not named Mist and that Mia is the best unit among that group. Your response was to claim that my post is so stupid as to not even be worth responding to. That's not ignoring a stupid point. That's plugging your ears and screaming like a baby in denial.

Since you're ignoring me anyways... Might as well ruin a few other notions you have.

The tooth fairy isn't real.

The Easter Bunny is a Christianized version of a pagan symbol and also isn't real.

St. Nicholas existed but was just a man who was later combined with various other myths to form Santa (and thusly isn't real).

Velocoraptors had feathers and looked closer to giant chickens than what they did in Jurassic Park.

Scrappy Doo exists and is canonical.

Episodes I, II, and III of Star Wars are canon, as is Jar Jar.

[Lord Raven]

yeah I agree snowy you're right as usual

[eclipse]

Eh, I'm silly.

Snowy, what's better. . .Mia and someone else, or two Mias?

[Snowy_One]

Eh, I'm silly.

Snowy, what's better. . .Mia and someone else, or two Mias?

Is that someone else Micaiah and are they lying down on my bed?

Okay. In all seriousness... Yes. I do see your point. I don't disagree with people rating Reyson high because they prefer the 'two Mia's'. I disagree with people rating him high because 'OMG HE ALWAYS REFRESHS FOUR UNITS AND IS SOOO AWESOME'.