Higurashi Mafia - Game over

[Percivalé]

wow yeah this train is making me really uncomfortable

##Unvote

stop ):

[Rapier]

My reasoning has already been stated a million times.

[Percivalé]

All of the votes on Subieko are mostly echoing my "STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH" and I see like no other reasons, and it's really bothering me

[Shinori]

Also, I have a passive role.

Is this really smart though <_<

Pretty sure thats what Sub is reffering to, if someone didn't actually go back and make sure they may just go by a faulty memory and assume that when you asked if it was smart that you said it wasn't a good idea.

I still think it isn't that hard to go back like 4 pages though so. And I agree, I don't like the wagon filling this fast.

[Subieko]

My D&D is going kind of slow tonight, so I have time to post, yay.

That exageration makes me VERY unsettled.

His post was like two paragraphs of text long. For a forum post, that's really large. Possibly I have weird standards, but I found his post surprisingly large, given that it focused solely on defending Elieson.

When did they say that?

Hm, I phrased this poorly. Shinori said that voting for Elieson made BBM, me, and Helios scummy. Bizz also felt that my vote was scummy/had poor reasoning. I voted Elieson because he was acting scummy; thus, I felt that Shinori and Bizz were saying that voting with this reasoning was scummy. This is also why I said Shinori's post sounds like he's assuming Elieson is confirmed Town.

I felt that me thinking Elieson's question was scummy was pretty strongly implied by me saying in my vote post that answering his question would help scum more than Town and then voting for him, but perhaps Shinori and Bizz interpreted this really differently than I intended it.

Are you kidding? If he seems Townish, then why were you voting him?

If you actually read my posts, you will see that I found his infofishing scummy, and voted him. Then he posted a defense, which changed my feelings towards him. At that point, I changed my vote.

Also, how do you know it's a mislynch?

I don't. However, Shinori's reasons for voting BBM were flimsy in my opinion; it feels like he's trying to get people suspicious of BBM with little reason.

I also like how you're putting words in my mouth.

You claimed passive in response to Elieson's question. Then you asked whether it was perhaps a bad idea (unless you were referring to something else? nothing else was going on at the time that I recall). So you did a thing, then said you thought it might be a bad idea. Why do a thing you think might be a bad idea? I don't see how this is putting words in your mouth at all.

For the record, that's not why I voted for you, and you're only making yourself look worse by assuming it.

Here are the words from your post:

I haven't read all the way through the thread yet, but Jesus, talk about a flimsy excuse for voting someone. I'm going to just be jumping all over reactions like this from now on

The excuse you refer to was me finding Elieson's question scummy and voting him for a reaction. Either you interpretted my post REALLY differently than I intended it, or I have no idea what your reason for voting me actually was.

Also should I roleclaim? I don't think I'll be able to use my role very well anyway, tbh.

[Rapier]

All of the votes on Subieko are mostly echoing my "STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH" and I see like no other reasons, and it's really bothering me

Cam has been echoing a lot for the whole topic, actually.

[Bluedoom]

Rapier, why are you starting to act scummy again? >.<

[Bluedoom]

Subi I'd rather you not roleclaim.

Also I would agree with Shinori on one point- Scum can take advantage of mistakes like what Eli did. BBM did this, and although that doesn't mean he's scum, it sure makes him look scummy.

[Percivalé]

The excuse you refer to was me finding Elieson's question scummy and voting him for a reaction. Either you interpretted my post REALLY differently than I intended it, or I have no idea what your reason for voting me actually was.

Over-exaggerated paranoia, not much else reason for voting for Elieson besides that. After, you know, recent game shenanigans, I'm treating these kinds of reactions with more scrutiny now

[CT075]

@marth - excuse me for being ninjad

[Rapier]

Rapier, why are you starting to act scummy again? >.<

Why's that?

[CT075]

...err my last post was @rapier not marth blegh

[Percivalé]

##Vote: Camtech

Bandwagoning, echoing, etc.

I want to see more from you than that. ):

[Subieko]

Over-exaggerated paranoia, not much else reason for voting for Elieson besides that. After, you know, recent game shenanigans, I'm treating these kinds of reactions with more scrutiny now

I think asking for role information on D1 is quite scummy and merits a vote to get reactions. Seeing that as paranoia is a bit extreme in my opinion.

[Percivalé]

I think asking for role information on D1 is quite scummy

elieson must be pretty clumsy scum then

[CT075]

I have nothing really to say that isn't a blatant echo of what someone else has already said. I could try? to get one of those huge-ass logic walls you guys are all fond in the next like 7 hours (fuck sleeping this is important) but everything i'm seeing has already been stated

besides the only real blatant echo/wagon was on subi i hardly echoed anything on elie afaik

[Subieko]

elieson must be pretty clumsy scum then

Just because something is obviously scummy doesn't mean no scum will ever do it. If someone does something I find suspicious, I want to vote them and pressure them for reactions/explanations. Which I got in Elieson's case, so my vote did exactly what I wanted it to.

[Bluedoom]

Why's that?

First off you pretty much jumped on to the BBM wagon as well, echoing te same opinion. That's not enough to say you're scummy BUT:

Then you come up with this:

Unvote

##Vote: Subieko

I'm fine with either lynch, tbh. And Subi's seems to be the most likely one.

You're fine with ether lynch? So you'll vote for the one which s most likely to happen? That's called waffling, and that is very scummy. Not to mention that you have already assumed BBM is mafia(and BBM has a point) and will be lynched today. I don't recall BBM ever being scum twice and being lynched D1 twice, so obviously you're referring to this game. Stop it. It makes you looks scummy as hell. Only reason I'm not voting you is because you always tend to act scummy.

[BBM]

Also I would agree with Shinori on one point- Scum can take advantage of mistakes like what Eli did. BBM did this, and although that doesn't mean he's scum, it sure makes him look scummy.

If all scummy things can be explained away by "he made a mistake", how do we find scum at all? Just wait for cop results? >_>

[Bluedoom]

If all scummy things can be explained away by "he made a mistake", how do we find scum at all? Just wait for cop results? >_>

Except it seemed like a valid mistake a noobtown would make. If you remember GSM, Shinori asked about Djinn powers. What did I do that game? Well, waffling between Shinori and Rapier was a mistake, I agree, but do realize that I took advantage of Shinori's mistake. So did eclipse(and I think Paper voted for him too? Don't remember). Yes I'm comparing the Djinn question to what Elieson did here, because the two cases are really similar if you look at it.

[CT075]

okay info/conclusion dump let's go then

forgive me for any organization mishaps because i'm dumb

five bucks by the time i finish typing this someone will have hammered me for being a stupid noobtown

That is information which benefits the mafia a lot. It lets them automatically cancel out people who are not high priority targets like the Doc and the Cop, while also letting them know who they probably don't want to target yet. On the other hand, very few town roles care about whether someone's role is passive or active.

We don't. So even if someone claims a passive role and then ends up on a Watcher report, it doesn't mean they are auto-scum because they could have a good reason for lying. On the other hand, if the mafia kill someone who said they had an active role, but end up having a passive role, whatever, it's one town down for them anyways. I guess if it was like the Bomb or PGO or something similar, it might hurt them, but on the whole they're helped more by it.

I'm not getting any real scum read off of this beyond "you jumped on him way too quickly" but after that...

Though I'm not sure about the rest of you kids, personally I'm hesitant to give out info about my role because, at least in my case, it'd be more helpful for scum to know anything about my role right now than town. I don't think Elieson is scum because he asked this, because IMO I think the scum team would be afraid of raising suspicion to themselves so early in the game. I think he's trying to create some discussion since this thread has been pretty quiet so far.

I am kinda curious about who each person's character is, but that's because of theory I'm developing more than anything else.

Okay lets do it this way, yes their are doubts on if someone is lieing or telling the truth, but normally town won't lie. Now, next, elieson just stated it as an idea because, well, NO ONE IS TALKING. I don't think he's scum at the moment nor do i think the idea in its self is a bad idea, especially since it's only active or passive as an answer. This tells mafia nothing except for yes who doc and cop might be under. However there are power roles that are passive as well. Now I would like to point out reacting poorly to something as small as this has been something scum tend to do in these types of games.

So whereas we don't actually have much info, I don't think elieson is scum, it's not how he has acted previously in his past games that he was scum in. And from most experiences I've had people that act like Subieko, BBM, and Helios are acting right now tend to be scum. Being overly suspicious and quickly hopping on the easy possible misslynch on Elieson. All that was needed was to say "GUYS I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE SHARING THIS INFO CAN WE TALK TOGETHER BEFORE WE CHOOSE TO DO THIS?" Instead you chose to say part of that and vote Elie, except Helios, which makes him seem a little less scummy to me.

Side note whenever Elie is scum he tends to ask if what he says in thread is okay to say in thread, especially if it has any importance to it, such as that post, which is especially why I don't think he's scum, his scum buddies would have told him not to say that. Therefore, ##Vote: BBM, scum again, calling it.

The people pouncing on him split us into those who are defending him and those who aren't.

And then this comes out of nowhere:

Hey guys. I've got an idea for a game. It's called "Who wants to be roleblocked?"

which is basically a softclaim but then this brings me back to what I said here:

actually now that I think about it elieson is just drawing all the mafia's fire by declaring that he himself is active and therefore a possible power role

so he either overlooked that fact or he knows he has nothing to fear.

except replace "elieson" with "balcerzak" and all the other relevant parts here you know what I'm getting at

whether or not Balc is fakeclaiming, that looks to be a pretty ballzy thing to do. Just something to take into account.

After that post, there was all of this:

My thoughts are that people are fooling around too much, and I think Eli picked a somewhat dubious way to stop it. I don't usually object to revealing info, but there's no reason for something like that to be completely out in the open as soon as the game starts. That said, this isn't N0, please vote to get reactions/pressure people/actually affect the game. I know stuff is inevitably random at first, but people were doing nothing but rolling their D13s for a bit too long.

##Unvote (BBM)

##Vote: Rein

Hahaha we're still on the D13s. I got what I wanted out of Kay, so I'll unvote.

##Unvote

##Vote Bluedoom

The way Elie tried to start discussion is something I could see you doing, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it as well as BBM's reaction.

Really helios? I start discussion by asking whether a our roles are active or passive? o.O

Now what Elieson did reminds me of what how Shinori played in GSM, and there I was scum trying to take advantage of that. Now I agree with what BBM is saying but, his behavior reminds me of myself in GSM. That said, its not enough for me to just vote him like that.

##Unvote

##Vote: Scorri

Also my school has started so I won't be online much. Still, I think I'll be online around end phase time tomorrow.

##Unvote

Haha well no, I meant it more as you would do something that people would think is scummy just for fun, even though you'd be town. Interesting thoughts though. That's good enough for now.

Hmm who hasn't said much yet?

##Vote Eclipse

Remind us all why D13s are absolutely terrible.

Dude, have you even SEEN what a D13 would look like? It's D12, then D20.

I refuse to give out any information on my role, because it's none of your business. Are you guys playing "let's help the mafia find town PRs?" BBM has a point, but is far too strong with it, as usual.

##Unvote

##Vote: RapierThere's something to talk about. What are your thoughts? And try not to incite a riot.

*some posts omitted for brevity*

which looks to me to be a combination of randomlynch and reaction/thought fishing. nothing i could make heads or tails of

shortly afterwards I spy possibly an attempt at a Helios wagon

Yes it is, the title of Cutest Legendary is of life and death importance even though it's actually Victini

Okay, if you did this just to get reactions I can see some value, but please find something else to provoke people with next time. Newer players may out info about their roles without realizing why it's a bad idea; Cam seems to have done this. And the lategame value is negated by the advantage this gives scum right now in deciding who to kill or mess with.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Helios

You've gone well past vote-hopping into some kind of vote explosion. And you're unvoting people after they make a single post, regardless of what it adds to the discussion. What the heck are you doing?

Me! But make sure it's the Mafia Roleblocker who's hitting me. I have a surprise for him. *kiralaugh*

I agree with Shinori about BBM. At first, I thought he had a good point on Elie, but after his response to Bal I'm beginning to think he's been overreacting too much and too easily.

Well, now's your time to give us your opinion. All I've seen is your comments.

##Vote: Helios

Sorry, I just can't help it. XD

Sorry, but the third part doesn't make sense. What's your guarantee that people wouldn't lie about their roles being passive/active? There could be players from the Town hiding their active roles (such as the Cop saying he's passive) to protect himself/because they're paranoid. And from there, everything will go down, and we'll be basing ourselves in a flawed basis on lategame.

Either way, thanks for asking us that question. The best way to know if someone's scum or not is by watching how he/she reacts to something, and you managed to troll them just as planned.

which is basically ignored as the elieson wagon continues

Next up, everyone starts gunning for Shinori. I noticed a few more people voting for BBM but that's about it

And then Subieko shows up and said some stuff we all pointed out and i don't need to go over that one

and then two or three people start gunning for me and aah what am i gonna do panic panic panic etc

Just for reference:

Shinori - Eclipse -> Levity -> BBM

Elieson - Cam -> Scorri -> unvote

Balcerzak - scorri -> bizz (activity) -> Elieson

Helios - Subieko -> Kay -> Marth -> Eclipse -> Bal -> Unvote

BBM - Shinori -> Elieson -> Shinori

scorri - BBM -> Elieson -> Subieko

Rapier - Shinori -> Helios -> BBM -> Subieko

rein - Cam -> Elieson

Eclipse - Balcerzak -> Rapier -> Marth -> Rapier -> Shinori

Cam - BBM -> Marth -> Elieson -> Subieko

Subieko - Elieson -> Helios -> Shinori

San - BBM -> Rein

Marth - Cam -> Scorri -> Subieko

Bizz - Subieko -> unvote -> Cam

ten bucks i missed something if i did please tell me

[Subieko]

My players are rolling right now, so no time for a big post, but I like Cam's summary and I see some interesting thoughts going on there. I don't find him scummy right now and don't want a lynch on him.

[Prims]

JB votals

Iris votals

JB votals

Iris votals

that or give me the permission to post votecounts 8)

[Percivalé]

... a lot of quotes with not much meat in between

the quotes + the votal-record make the post look more significant than it really is but I like the latter content in it so ok

##Unvote

I think I overreacted a little when I voted him; Subieko, however, still pings me a little (I kind of wish she could point out what exactly she liked about the post, but didn't...)

I also think Helios is town

[CT075]

well i don't blame you for finding me empty because i kind of am

I haven't thought of anything new that's worth saying beyond the balc thing (and even that's not really worthwhile), it was mostly just to get my thoughts written down somewhere. Rest assured if I do in the next... *checks*... err, six hours, then I'll say so.

For now, though

## Unvote

## Hack Balcerzak