Draft Minimafia

[Strawman]

I think more to the point, what I'm saying is, is that I am not afraid to be lynched. That's why I don't care about the votes.

Huh, okay.

But it still strikes me as odd. I don't think a mafia would have that attitude though cause that'd screw over your teammate..

But its not pro-town either.

[BBM]

How did I change stories? My story, from beginning to end, was that people in another mafia got on my case for overreacting and being too quick to vote others, so I decided not to vote right away. I decided to vote for him afterwards mainly because my randomvote was on Manix and I didn't want it to be there anymore, with what he's saying about not caring if he dies. I'm not quite sure what he's getting at.

[Strawman]

OH, I think I misread one of Prims' posts misunderstanding what you meant as your post now that I reread it.

Still, its weird to not vote for someone you say you find most suspicious. Wanting who you're currently voting for to responds makes sense but just doing it to avoid looking like you're switching you're vote too much is iffy.

[Rothene]

Manix don't give up. Mislyching is never too wonderful for town. It just gives mafia more time to kill others, speeds up their wincon and for all we know they might have an amnesiac to capitalise on wonderful deaths.

Got 10 minutes to read and think...screw that, I shall put a vote on ##Vote:Bizz

Because I don't think anything's going to band wagon on you anytime soon. Will be back later to analyse the situation more.

Forum needs a way to let me just look through specific user's posts

[Kaoz]

Forum needs a way to let me just look through specific user's posts

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=33440&search_author=USER

User specific search for for this thread. Replace USER with whatever person's posts you want to search. Given that I think at least one person asked for this every game so far since Prims posted it, maybe putting it into the OP for each game wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Kriemhild]

##Unvote: Prims

That was a joke vote, btw.

As for my serious vote

##Vote: No Lynch

It's Day 1, on a game with Night 0. If there's anybody that didn't expect this, they probably haven't played NOC much with me. We don't have any information (except drafting strategies, which we can't discuss) and as far as I can see, the posts aren't doing anything. It may push someone to claim, or drop hints about their role, but I don't think that's a good thing here.

[Grace]

Manix don't give up.

To be more specific, I'm giving up on talking sense into Prims. And the problem with D1 is that without a N0, it's incredibly likely to be a mislynch anyway. Town can still get information out of it, given interactions between people, as long as we don't mislynch an inactive.

We don't have any information (except drafting strategies, which we can't discuss) and as far as I can see, the posts aren't doing anything.

Well, the whole drafting strategies thing was for pre-game, Paper confirmed it in thread. But still wouldn't be a wise idea, because it will still pull information that the mafia could use.

[Elieson]

But iirc he only pointed out one earlier post that he said had content that you didn't agree with. I agree a lot of his early posts were short, unhelpful, and too apathetic but it still seems like you were only harping on that and not paying attention to anything in his more recent posts that isn't him overreacting to you where he actually (kind of) says things. This post is one of what I'm referring too: Sure the first half is iffy especially since, iirc, he addressed the votes by saying he isn't really into the game yet which isn't really addressing the votes effectively and I still find him scummy for stuff like that, but he has posted more since then in longer and more opinionated and relevant posts and admits his earlier posts weren't stellar, so its questionable to focus on them so much.

Also yes, please no one hammer Prims. We still have plenty of time this phase so let us use it.

Also, other random thoughts from me.

Well I just kind of blurted out the first thing that came to my mind about the role drafting to be honest I was alarmed when blitz said something almost the same so soon after I said it(we probably typed it at the same time to be fair). But I'm not see whats the harm in at least considering the possibilities. I mean sure there are endless what if situations we could speculate with the roles and the drafting and it would be dumb to try and bring them all up, but eh, I'm not reading too much into it.

Elieson's Prims vote is strange to me. He voted him for acting like he knows more info, but I don't really get how that makes him look like scum especially in light of his other behavior and actions. Maybe if it was distracting/detrimental to discussion or something? Elie, could you explain this a little please? Also dancing around the question? Can you explain that too?

Also BBM changed stories a lot in that little discussion with Prims aobut what he was saying about voting too quick how he used it as justification for not voting for who he thinks is most scummy. Maybe you're just waiting for Blitz to respond to your vote, but its kind of difficult for me to tell with your responses to Prims.

Sorry I kind of threw up stuff in this post. Also:

Yay for consistency!

In response to this, I just see Prims going on and on about his knowledge and meta analysis, but not really bringing anything to the table except for sharing that he knows things. If you are willing to toy with knowledge like that, it seems rather secretive to me. Prims suggests he knows about Bizz's role. Ok. Give us something to work with. You aren't defending making yourself look more innocent by saying "i know stuff that you guys don't".

Dancing? Well that's just it. He doesn't provide a straight answer to a question. In fact, he has even replied to an assertion against him.with another question. Reread my last two posts where I quoted Prims and tell me those are dead straight answers.

His little bickering with Manix, about the theoretical vig, for instance. Manix says "Shoot me", Prims says "with what?", Manix replies with "Dayvig Shot", Prims finishes with "it would be wiser for a dayvig to shoot on D2".

Granted, I'm sure Prims is trying to hide his identity, but then he goes and says "I'm at L-1, but I'm still not gonna claim" like a cocky teenager.

Like he is really doing so much to aid the game progression that he doesn't feel the need to be influenced by pressure; he can just do and say what he wants, when he wants, and should not be repremanded or accussed for it.

Did that answer you, Straw?

[Percivalé]

Rothene: You voted me because it's unlikely there'll be a bandwagon on me soon? Okay, but are you actually suspicious of me?

##Unvote

I think Manix is just being silly now. "I don't care if I die" is an anti-town statement even if he has good intentions about it, but someone else already reprimanded him for that, so I don't think I need to do it again.

Is it bad if I actually agree with what Elieson has been saying about Prims? /: I don't know if I necessarily feel comfortable voting him, though. I also think I have an idea of what he's talking about now regarding my role, which makes me think a lot better of him, actually. I like the effort to break off the trend of "vote someone --> leave them at L-1 --> person claims no matter what," since even if he was in danger of being lynched, it's still pretty early in the game to be claiming. Although unfortunately that's going to make him look like a target for the mafia now /: I guess that's how I interpreted it.

Elieson: It makes sense for him not to claim, though, since Proto's vote didn't even count anyway (though he's quick enough to make an excuse like that but I'm not going to press him for now)

(Also it's possible for Rothene to be vanilla mafia, even if it's slightly unlikely when I think about it but it's still there)

[Percivalé]

also Manix keeps saying things like "talking sense," "bad logic," etc.

just because Prims doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that everything he's been posting can be disregarded as bad logic

and everyone has their own type of logic

[Percivalé]

Although, at the same time, reading Elieson's posts still makes me a little uncomfortable. He's tunneling pretty hard. Elie, do you have any suspicions on anyone else besides Prims? And that goes for you, too, Rothene--your vote looks simply like you're pressuring me and not even convinced that I'm scum. Is there anyone you're actually suspicious of, too?

[Percivalé]

Another thing, I wouldn't say Prims isn't bringing anything new to the table /: You've been reading ALL of his posts, right?

I'm not remembering much of Proto but he's been more memorable this game than I've seen from him in a while. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing.

I agree with No Lynch in smaller games, though, since we have many less mislynches to work on and it's usually my rule, too, but I don't think a lot of players here would agree on that point.

[Grace]

I think Manix is just being silly now. "I don't care if I die" is an anti-town statement even if he has good intentions about it, but someone else already reprimanded him for that, so I don't think I need to do it again.

It depends on how you use it. Painting a sign that says "lynch me!" intentionally can indicate that you're willing to die if it means town is going to have a better chance at winning (In this case, it's still a possibility). Would the mafia ever do that? Unlikely, because statements such as these leave you open to policy lynches later. And mafia do not want to be lynched. Also remember that there is no lynch bomb.

PS: Yes, I am willing to be policy lynched later as well.

just because Prims doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that everything he's been posting can be disregarded as bad logic

and everyone has their own type of logic

I am aware of this, and I admit that Prims has some valid points, but he's got more bad logic than usual (which is just the fact that it exists is the point).

(why am I even still awake, it's almost 1am zzzzzzzz)

[Percivalé]

4am 4ever

[Percivalé]

Oops I don't know who I actually want to vote next

I want to vote Elieson but then I don't because I feel like I'm being hasty but to be fair my Manix vote was pretty hasty as is

actually whatever ##Vote: Elieson it's D1 and I can settle down soon enough

[BBM]

I'm not remembering much of Proto but he's been more memorable this game than I've seen from him in a while. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing.

He's only got 2 posts. The first included a random vote and mainly discussed drafting strategies and possibilities. In the second, he advocates a nolynch (which is apparently par for the course for him, and therefore not really anything that's contributing) and then says that talking about drafting strategies isn't actually allowed. Even if it wasn't, though it is, he's already made a post talking about drafting strategies. I tihnk he's looking a bit suspicious, actually.

[Elieson]

To answer while I'm at work, I find Prims most scummy, & Blitz to a lesser extent, for early game thought waffling.

Bizz I find mostly town. Manix, lesser town. Everyone else is fairly neutral in my mind right now.

[Percivalé]

He's only got 2 posts.

That's Proto for you.

Also oops, now I feel bad for voting Elie

I'll take a look at more things and maybe I'll find something new.

[Percivalé]

also proto/blitz both have bad internet or something so i don't really like being suspicious of them solely for the fact that they aren't posting as much

[Grace]

I also think I have an idea of what he's talking about now regarding my role, which makes me think a lot better of him, actually.

hold up a sec. you do realize that him knowing your role (or something about it) means not really that much if he's town, and has pretty big implications if he's maf, right? And considering you picked first... I'll leave the implication of that up to you.

I wouldn't call what Prims did there something that makes a townie.

[Percivalé]

hold up a sec. you do realize that him knowing your role (or something about it) means not really that much if he's town, and has pretty big implications if he's maf, right? And considering you picked first... I'll leave the implication of that up to you.

I wouldn't call what Prims did there something that makes a townie.

i'm not going to say anything else related to this in particular

[Percivalé]

Also I said 'think,' not 'feel'

eeheeheeheehee

[Prims]

Elie - I haven't been providing blatant answers because I'm expecting people to read behind the lines in my posts. I'm not dancing around things that would make me look bad if town knew about them so it's not really scummy.

Not claiming at L-1 when one of the votes is a joke isn't scummy, because I'm not actually about to get lynched.

I also explained my motivation behind the Levity vote ages ago and if you're still going to press that point you're missing the context of it, because knowing her role wasn't actually the point of the vote, it was just a silly excuse to see what she'd say.

Manix issue - I agree the defeatist attitude looks weird and that he should definitely stop if it he's town, but... even in light of this, I'm not actually seeing his recent posts as looking any more townie. He's not actually addressing anything other than me even when I'm not around, when there are other people to talk about. In fact aside from the overblown reaction to me he really hasn't DONE MUCH. I'm hesitant to unvote him because there's nothing saying scum can't just act submissive in response to a lynch wagon for the sake of AtE, especially if they actually did end up with a useless role

HOWEVER

actually pushing for No Lynch on Day 1, 24 hours into the day

ISHYGDDT

Even if No Lynch on NOC D1 was ever a good idea, there are several issues here that make it especially terrible here:

a) The only two roles that have a chance of bringing us information are the Town Follower and maaaaybe a very very lucky hooker - the latter of which has a much better chance of bringing us information if we lynch first. Alongside the typical "dying overnight" problem, what happens if one of them turns out to be scum (and perhaps kills the other)? At least if they're about to die during the day they can claim to ward off pressure and probably survive.

b) Nobody else is actually considering No Lynch right now. I mean, yeah, you might still think it's the best course of action if you have a meta of being deluded, but given that most people here have a pro-lynching stance, you're wasting town's time by bringing it up when you know it's not actually going to go through.

c) There actually are interactions to consider right now. Like, you know that whole scuffle between Manix and I that a lot of people reacted to? Yeah, that's analyzable. So is Elie's vote on me, or I guess BBM's vote on Blitz. "the posts aren't doing anything" is downright false.

##Unvote

##Vote: Luster Purge (L-4)

Either you're not thinking or you're scum using your meta to try and coast because you're lazy, and I'd actually be willing to attribute the former as a direct result of the latter.

I have stuff to do today and haven't had time to scan over Levity's Elieson vote yet. I don't expect him to loo kworse than Proto but I'll do that and see whether I agree or not when I'm back.

[Strawman]

[quote name='Elieson' date='22 June 2012 - 08:59 AM' timestamp='1340373553' post='2031575'

Did that answer you, Straw?

yes, I understand now, thanks!

Also, ##Unvote

##Vote:Blitz Since you were #2 on my suspicion list. Found it odd how you were hesitant to bring up discussion early on and then have mostly spent your posts trying to get others to talk more so than inputting your own opinion on things.

[Strawman]

Also not sure what to think of Proto's early No Lynch vote. Usually in a large game I'd find it silly and a bad move but iirc in minis with a day 1 start I see the rationale IF town can't decide on a viable target.

Still, its early to be pushing/considering a NL.