Xenoblade Mafia - Game Over

[BBM]

I didn't give an in-depth explanation of what I thought of Core in Post #380 or anywhere else in the thread because I felt that any reasons I had for my opinion on him had already been stated by others. I preferred to spend my time on posting the opinions and reads I had that I felt were at least somewhat unique. Maybe the Marth one was kind of echo-y, but I have backed up my votes on both Kaoz/Elieson and Rapier with mostly new reasoning.

[Sunwoo]

One major thing that makes me doubt Rapier being scum, though, is that he was bugging Core about his vote on me well after his "reaction test" explanation had already been given. At that point, I don't think Core had much suspicion on him. If Rapier and Core were scum buddies, it would've been easy for Rapier to just let that go and not bring it up.

[Helios]

@Prims: Tbh I didn't know we could vote otherwise I would have voted. I forgot this was Cycles and not a Day/Night thing lol. I feel like I can't vote BBM until I remember why I found him suspicious on my reread though so I need to quick remember things.

[Helios]

##Vote BBM

What was bugging me with him was his reaction to Core voting him at the beginning, and I feel like his switch from Aere to Marth was weak. He also continued to push for a Marth lynch even after he claimed vanilla with not much of an argument for it. It just felt too opportunistic to me.

[BBM]

IIRC, nobody unvoted after Marth claimed vanilla, so I don't really see your point with that. I'm also not sure what you're talking about when you say my reaction to Core's vote on me was weird. And I've admitted that my hop to Marth was weak.

[Grace]

Alright, it's ISO time

although I may run out of time, because I only have a half hour right now, but I'll get back to it ASAP if I have to leave it

But on initial ISO of Core; I'm getting town reads on certain players, but not really drawing much for scum reads

[Grace]

An ISO on BBM gave me this quite nice little gem; Right here.

> ISO's Core and Marth

> Doesn't even mention Core in the post

:/

I don't have a problem with the actual vote, but why say you ISO'ed someone and not say anything about it? Something doesn't quite add up here.

Why oh why does this post feel like a scum crumbing one of their PR's? I've seen them do that before (see SB in SSBU crumbing Clipsey's role D2). And since they hit our rolecop, and then Elie (whose role I can't easily think of a keyword for), I somehow think that scum actually might have such a role. And then there's the problem of Core's correct watcher result, so it could be the same role, or two different roles. :/

Errrr, there's a grave assumption made in this post, which is that mafia doesn't have such a role. Considering Elie's role, it's a possibility, and it seems like BBM is trying to avoid knowledge of it. Iunno.

BBM is striking me as slightly weird now, I would consider possibly lynching him.

And time is out, I'll be back later.

[Blitz]

Was pre-occupied after lynch yesterday, somebody remind me why I should pour out effort into this game when nobody is voting or scumhunting 22 hours into the day?

good point,

I still have some bits to catch up on

will (hopefully) post something useful

[Blitz]

Yeah my birthday was yesterday so I wasn't around because of that. But yeah I'm here for now. Still need to read through C1 though :/.

@Prims: The point I was trying to make was that depending on Core's flip we learn about Aere based on the fact that he brought up Core after everyone forgot him. I still need to read through D1 to find out why he was so scummy though. It could just be a shitty attempt to bus someone to make you look more town.

@Blitz: I personally think Shinori playing all emotional looks more townish than anything because meta. Not sure why he's pushing the Manix lynch so hard but again need to read through C1.

Oh and isn't this game supposed to be fun? Lol.

sorry I missed wishing you on your Birthday, so, super late Happy Birthday

and you have a point about Shinori, but he should really not do it

and yeah, Aere has a good chance of being a townie and never played Xenoblade

[BBM]

An ISO on BBM gave me this quite nice little gem; Right here.

> ISO's Core and Marth

> Doesn't even mention Core in the post

:/

I don't have a problem with the actual vote, but why say you ISO'ed someone and not say anything about it? Something doesn't quite add up here.

Prims made this point and I responded to it. I found Marth's actions scummier, so I mentioned only those results. The reason I mentioned that I ISOd Core was because he was the other wagon at the time.

Why oh why does this post feel like a scum crumbing one of their PR's? I've seen them do that before (see SB in SSBU crumbing Clipsey's role D2). And since they hit our rolecop, and then Elie (whose role I can't easily think of a keyword for), I somehow think that scum actually might have such a role. And then there's the problem of Core's correct watcher result, so it could be the same role, or two different roles. :/

Sorry, I can't tell you why this post makes you think I'm breadcrumbing a scumbuddy's PR.

Errrr, there's a grave assumption made in this post, which is that mafia doesn't have such a role. Considering Elie's role, it's a possibility, and it seems like BBM is trying to avoid knowledge of it. Iunno.

Keep in mind that this post was made before Elie's role was revealed. Now that it's been revealed that Elie's role could gather info mid-cycle, I suppose it's also possible that scum can do the same.

Also, I just realized this, but Elieson's role heavily implies that the mafia have to choose their kill target in the first half of the cycle. Otherwise, the only kills he could foretell would be Vig/SK kills, and it'd be kind of bastardly if the Doctor was geared towards stopping his own faction's kills.

[Blitz]

I am town's watcher. I watched Levity but nothing suspicious happened so I'm not outting who visited her.[/b]

wow, I did not see this post before (and especially this bit)

anyways, as an answer to what Core said (I just felt like doing it, but screwed up the reply), I voted for Shinori as a reaction test and his reply was terrible, then he went all emotional which is more a town tell for him, but I still think he shouldn't do it

anyways, as for the Kaoz thing, Kaoz was kinda trying to hide his thoughts by trying to make himself look like a viable lynch target so that the mafia doesn't kill him, but he kinda claimed PR in his own way early and I think he was scanned by the mafia that got him killed this phase.

[eclipse]

Writing assignment repeat

Still missing several of you.

[Blitz]

I didn't really like that post, tbh. To begin with, everybody he's suspicious of is on his wagon. Sure, if you are indeed town, Core, there are bound to be scum on your wagon. But there are probably scum not on your wagon too. The post reeks of one huge OMGUS to me. His points against Manix are well supported, but his arguments against Aere and Boron aren't. Especially the one against Aere- if he thinks you are scum and if he's offering good reasons for it, why does he need to look at multiple other people?

Also, claiming Watcher is not very useful when you don't back it up with results.

this post does make BBM indeed make BBM look like he is trying to hammer his buddy who has no way of living anyways.

[Blitz]

I'd say C2 was a lot of inactivity for the whole cycle, not just the first two days. To give you an idea, Boron, SSBU mafia, a game of similar size, had 60-something pages at the beginning of Day 3.

well, that is cause I was hyper active there to back my weaknesses, lol (not that we got anything done, but still)

As for how Shinori looks with Core's flip- I don't think he looks any worse. He was wrong, yes, but I don't think scum!Shinori would argue so vehemently in Core's defence, knowing what the outcome would be after Core flipped scum. It's generally not a good idea for scum to link themselves together to that extent. Gnerally scum are more subtle with that sort of thing.

yeah, Shinori is more likely to be town after the Core flip but it could be that he was just trying to take advantage of this reverse Psychology

[Paperblade]

votals

[2] BBM: Prims, Helios

[1] Rapier: BBM

Voteless: Everyone else

If you guys don't pick up the fucking pace I'm going to call this game

[Prims]

You guys literally made 0 posts overnight.

Blitz, your post train doesn't contain a vote or tell us who you think is scum. Is BBM worth voting? Even though Shinori's reactions eventually leaned townie, why did you keep your vote down on him all phase and not bother consolidating or supporting / starting a wagon or anything?

@Xin Li #727: Rapier never actually voted Core over it so I think it's reasonable to interpret it as potential distancing. It's a null tell imo, unless you have something in specific about the interaction that makes you think they were addressing eachother without knowing the other's alignment?

Speaking of which, where the fuck is Rapier? I'm not opposed to switching over to him if he pulls the same disappearing act that Core did.

[CT075]

ISO'ing rapier makes me wonder about him, since all he's really been doing is defending himself and throwing himself onto wagons

##vote rapier

[Prims]

That's pretty slim for a C3 vote given that you don't have opinions on anybody else. ISOing isn't a replacement for re-reading, unless you're scum. You're supposed to use it to find specific posts then check the context. How are his posts scummy given the context? How can the same thing not be said of, say, Aere (who is probably town) or BBM?

[CT075]

how else would i know he's just throwing himself onto wagons if i hadn't been checking the context

aere hasn't just been throwing himself on wagons afaict

bbm is coming across as totally nullish to me

[CT075]

i have basically nothing else to go off of regardless

and it's 5:30 in the morning

forgive me if i'm not thinking straight

[BBM]

I don't think that Rapier, Aere, and Shinori have said anything of importance at all so far this phase. Seriously guys, come on. Rapier I hear is sick so that's something, but Aere has posted in this thread since the cycle started several times and said nothing other than "Kaoz/Elie was town Core was scum), and Shinori has posted in the mafia forum a couple times too.

[Rapier]

Okay, I'll start something, I guess. I've been reading the thread a couple times because both my scumreads exited the game last cycle. I'm not entirely confident of this, but

##Vote: Rapier

He voted for Core quite late, after it was evident that Core was going to be lynched. Felt sort of like a late bus to me, especially as he has very few posts against Core. Also, I thought over it, and I have to kind of agree with Blitz. Rapier is playing differently. It's not just that he doesn't look as scummy as he does a lot of time time, but the style itself is a lot different from normal. He scumhunted near the beginning, but in the last few days, his limited activity has been centered around correcting people's logic and asking a lot of questions and not really saying much. Plus, he's made a lot of posts countering mine and saying that he finds me scummy, but hasn't made a single vote against me.

I'm not sure I articulated my suspicions well, but I just have a gut feeling that Rapier is scum.

Also, Prims, please don't sub out. I agree that this game has been very lethargic and inactive, but subbing out and adding another person who needs to catch up will only make it worse.

I couldn't have bussed Core because he was already going to be lynched. Tell me how someone with 4 people voting over him can turn the table when the other voted players have only 1 vote. I felt more like hurrying things up by hammering Core, as he was one of the players on my suspicious list and taking risks is part of this game.

I still want an answer about your post in which you said "Snike was killed C1, it had a meaning. Snike suspected Aere, Shinori and Marth. So I suppose Aere/Shinori is scum". What do you think about them now? At the time you answered me "I ISOed them but I didn't find anything strange", but now you should be able to out something or overrule your theory.

Either way, shouting out "I think X and Y are scum because of Z but I couldn't find anything incriminatory or suspicious" is bad.

An ISO on BBM gave me this quite nice little gem; Right here.

> ISO's Core and Marth

> Doesn't even mention Core in the post

:/

I don't have a problem with the actual vote, but why say you ISO'ed someone and not say anything about it? Something doesn't quite add up here.

Why oh why does this post feel like a scum crumbing one of their PR's? I've seen them do that before (see SB in SSBU crumbing Clipsey's role D2). And since they hit our rolecop, and then Elie (whose role I can't easily think of a keyword for), I somehow think that scum actually might have such a role. And then there's the problem of Core's correct watcher result, so it could be the same role, or two different roles. :/

Errrr, there's a grave assumption made in this post, which is that mafia doesn't have such a role. Considering Elie's role, it's a possibility, and it seems like BBM is trying to avoid knowledge of it. Iunno.

I don't think he'd out info about a scum role as a scum, and then try to hide its existence. I see his post as a possible way to post cheap talk and make us wonder if the Mafia has a Rolecop without any concrete info as some sort of distraction, but since nobody cared about it...

how else would i know he's just throwing himself onto wagons if i hadn't been checking the context

aere hasn't just been throwing himself on wagons afaict

bbm is coming across as totally nullish to me

So are you saying I'm scum because I voted Core? Because I don't remember voting Marth (although I had reasons to switch my vote, I just wasn't here on time), and I remember voting Blitz and other people that were not being wagoned.

Tell me about any other wagon in which I participated, aside from the Core wagon.

By the way, I think I found a small gem of Aere's among the posts after re-reading for a bit:

In the other hand, I get scum vibes from Aere (his vote looked too opportunistic to me and he hasn't done anything else), Core (because his contradiction made no sense) and Marth (for thinking it's best to do nothing because the discussion we had been having was pointless), Cam isn't doing anything other than showing us he's a smart newbie (and he only did that once) and Prims' vote on Bizz looked like an OMGUS to me, but they look less scummy than the others I listed imo.

##Vote: Aere

For being too rushy to conclusions and commiting mistakes that could easily mislynch a newbtown.

This is so horrible I don't know where to start. First off, how on Earth was that vote opportunistic? And how does a (probable) mistake in typing make Core scum?

This is when he quoted me for my reasons to vote him. His defense on Core didn't sound that bad at that time, but now I can see it as a way to scumbuddy, especially after this other post:

That was his first post, yes? Seems like RVS then. Otherwise, maybe he's saying that people decide not to vote newbies (Like how I'm on Jedi) a lot of the time, simply because they're new and it could be hard to distinguish between noob!town/scum. I'm voting Jedi because I feel that he's noobscum.

He was -thinking about excuses- for Core's slip. I don't like it any bit.

I also don't like how Prims says Aere is obvtown without giving any solid reason, but at least Prims has been acting townish because he's one of the only active and contributive players over there.

Aere sounds like he was buddying with Prims on his earlygame posts, too:

I'd rather mislynch Jedi over Prims, assuming both are town. Prims is much more likely to contribute and help out the town to a greater extent.

Manix also showed interest about this post.

Why does this part of your post indicate that you seem to know something the rest of us don't? Now I'm worried.

You'd be right, except that I already saw Jedi as scummy, and Prims as townish. I'd rather lynch who I thought was scummy.

So...

##Vote: Aere

Get over here and explain why you think Prims is town. And say something about C3. Don't try to merge with the inactives crowd, you have some things to answer for.

[CT075]

I couldn't have bussed Core because he was already going to be lynched. Tell me how someone with 4 people voting over him can turn the table when the other voted players have only 1 vote. I felt more like hurrying things up by hammering Core, as he was one of the players on my suspicious list and taking risks is part of this game.

this is a terrible reason

So are you saying I'm scum because I voted Core? Because I don't remember voting Marth (although I had reasons to switch my vote, I just wasn't here on time), and I remember voting Blitz and other people that were not being wagoned.

Tell me about any other wagon in which I participated, aside from the Core wagon.

uh

shit

i think i confused you with someone else

i swear i saw you voting marth but guess not

[Shinori]

I haven't posted much because I lost all confidence in my reads. I'm gonna reread the thread and try to verify the people who i think are scum again.

[Grace]

Here's something I prepared earlier regarding Aere (when I was figuring out my reads stuff for the hosts):

---

Why name him the former instead of the latter? It's the beginning of Cycle 1, there's no reason why we SHOULDN'T make quick judgements, and I feel like he's trying to smoothly fly under the radar. He hasn't even remarked on my vote against him yet.

Yeah no. It doesn't work like that. And when you do that; you get lots of flak for it.

Guys, I've still never been mafia haha.

Now, I want to wait for Manix to post. I can't use my feelings from noob!Jedi on Manix, their play styles are completely different.

So what? This doesn't mean anything at all if you've never been maf before; it doesn't apply to this game at all.

And the rest of the post also is silly.

This post I think is best addressed by this post: Hi Snike.

This is was done last cycle, but Aere hasn't exactly said anything this cycle, so yeah