Theatre Mafia GAME OVER

[BBM]

1-shot vig should claim if exists.

Iris iso does not conflict with scum BBM.

##Vote: BBM

This makes no sense at all- there isn't a single person except maybe you who would make me look townier if they flipped scum. Why are you using such a bad reason for your tunnelling? This is going to look like an OMGUS but ##Vote: Weapons.

[scorri]

Bluh, I really don't like it when people do that. Yeah, sure, it might be able to be considered an OMGUS, but there's no need for you to point out what you're doing. If you explain your vote and are voting someone you think is scummy, it shouldn't matter if they have a vote on you. Especially if you have reasons for your vote. I feel like pointing out the OMGUS is sometimes a way to try and be like "This is totally an OMGUS, but since I'm saying it could look like one but isn't means people won't notice that it really is an OMGUS"

[Kaoz]

scorri, who's scum?

[Kaoz]

Also before anyone asks me the same thing, I have no clue, my reads are practically non-existant in this game.

[eclipse]

I got this game mixed up with EO. ;/

Edited August 24, 2012 by eclipse

[Kaoz]

Also, if the scum had a Watcher, them hitting the Doctor makes sense- watch a namekill target and you'll probably see the Doctor visiting them. But a Tracker has no real reason to target a namekill target, and I don't think any of them were acting particularly scummy D2. And since it's unlikely that the scum have both a Watcher and a Rolecop. So I still feel it's possible that Aere was killed for his reads.

I don't think we can really conclude anything either way. Aere didn't have a huge amount of content, so he could have been killed to minimize the information we get from the flip. Furthermore, Psych's dead confirmed vanillas being in this game, and as a result, hitting power roles in general is nice for the mafia (so he might have just gotten unlucky N1).

[Kaoz]

Paperblade, Shinori. Go ISO Core and Wen then tell me why Rapier is a better lynch than them. I'd like to know why Weapons doesn't care about Corelynch too since that entire player slot is one of the most blatant cases of lurkscum I've seen in a while.

Why didn't you mention Iris here as well? She was on Rapier like Paper and Shinori. Admittedly, her last post was a bit farther back, but the same can be said about WoMC's who you still addressed.

[Kaoz]

Oh and

##Vote: Prims

for now. I clearly have my thoughts together today.

[Bluedoom]

After an Iris ISO, I'm quite confused.

But before that, I'd like to say I really don't know why BBM has voted Weapons. Realize that Weapons was the one who started a case against Manix, who flipped scum. Why bus so early? Why not just fake reads instead of actual bussing? Don't really think he's looking any better and is in fact hurting his case with that recent post of his.

I don't know about Scorri- I have found her actions quite scummy throughout the game but it doesn't make sense for Iris to be tunneling on her and bussing her if she was scum.

I'm not really sure what Manix and Iris were doing when talking about Paperblade. Iris had a strong town read on Paper while Manix fakeclaimed a town scan on Paper. Whether this was to gain town cred or to actually make Paper look more town I dunno, but we're dealing with Manix, the guy who tries to do weird things and make people get weird reads once he makes it obvious he's scum.

Still doesn't change the fact that Rapier still looks bad. His final end phase post where he voted Core was horrible- why type Rapier when you can type 'me'? It really feels... weird and that reasoning was just crappy echoing- it was totally 'him over me' thing.

##Vote: Rapier because I honestly think we should've lynched him over Core.

[Bluedoom]

Oh yeah, forgot about Prims. Its like, same case as I said about Paper, except that Manix tunneling on him was weird and honestly don't know if that's soemthign to consider or not.(yeah I'm guessing Manix did stuff on his own but dunno)

[Rapier]

After an Iris ISO, I'm quite confused.

But before that, I'd like to say I really don't know why BBM has voted Weapons. Realize that Weapons was the one who started a case against Manix, who flipped scum. Why bus so early? Why not just fake reads instead of actual bussing? Don't really think he's looking any better and is in fact hurting his case with that recent post of his.

I don't know about Scorri- I have found her actions quite scummy throughout the game but it doesn't make sense for Iris to be tunneling on her and bussing her if she was scum.

I'm not really sure what Manix and Iris were doing when talking about Paperblade. Iris had a strong town read on Paper while Manix fakeclaimed a town scan on Paper. Whether this was to gain town cred or to actually make Paper look more town I dunno, but we're dealing with Manix, the guy who tries to do weird things and make people get weird reads once he makes it obvious he's scum.

Still doesn't change the fact that Rapier still looks bad. His final end phase post where he voted Core was horrible- why type Rapier when you can type 'me'? It really feels... weird and that reasoning was just crappy echoing- it was totally 'him over me' thing.

##Vote: Rapier because I honestly think we should've lynched him over Core.

The main reason I voted Core was because I had less than 7 hours (2 hours for me because it was 22:00 and I have to sleep) to read 31 pages and make a decent vote by getting reads. So I decided to vote the most scummy looking of the trio. I didn't see much difference from BBM to Core, so I voted the last because of his small slip.

Okay, no need to sub me out. I'll continue playing.

[BBM]

Early bussing is a thing. IMO it's the best time to bus because people suspect it the least that early, and you get more town cred for it than just jumping on the wagon midway through. Plus I'm not really sure that you could say that Weapons started the case against Manix anyways. He placed the first D3 vote against Manix and then didn't actually explain it until later when other people had already pointed out some of the scummy things Manix had done.

And also, Marth, you realize that someone has to be at majority or there's a randomlynch, right? There were like 30 minutes before phase end when Rapier voted Wen. The only possible lynch choices were me, Rapier, and Wen. We needed a majority and he piled onto the person with the most votes so that we could reach it.

[Prims]

Why didn't you mention Iris here as well? She was on Rapier like Paper and Shinori. Admittedly, her last post was a bit farther back, but the same can be said about WoMC's who you still addressed.

I knew Shinori and Paperblade were around at the time since they were posting so I wanted to get their attention. WoMC got a special mention because while I was writing up the message to the first two I remembered that Weapons had been ignoring Core and basically everybody but BBM. Iris had at least said "yeah I'd be ok switching to Core" earlier on.

Interesting points from Iris re-read:

Pointless speculation but the fact that Iris was doing the hardbussing (she kept her Manix vote down even after claim) makes me feel like she was probably the most competent player on the scumteam during D1 since they entrusted the earlygame bus to her.

scorri gains TownPoints based on ED2 interactions - Iris attempting to cut scorri's actions some slack despite keeping the vote down ("but maybe it could be an honest mistake") looks like she knows scorri is town but doesn't want to be pushing the mislynch too hard in case scorri flips.

Apparently Iris likes to poke people for town reads as scum aka token questioning. She did it with Marth and Rapier, but there's a double standard present here - she was OK with Marth's reads despite them being standard for that point only because his post was well-written, but Rapier's post was not particularly strong (at least not according to her) yet she has no problem with him anyway. Think this makes Rapier look worse.

how is Prims contributing less than, say, Rapier or Iris

This post also stuck out to me. Easy explanation for why Manix thought I was contributing less would be because he didn't want to draw attention to his buddies at that point.

##Vote: Rapier (L-4)

Lurking through the first three days and providing a ton of defense but no scumhunting and no voting until prompted on the third does not impress.

Find Kaoz's playerslot questionable because Bananas would throw around weak sentences about ongoing cases but ignored the Manix wagon when it started to sprout. When Kaoz came in he didn't really do much with the playerslot and basically ignored Manix's flip during D3 cases. Despite Bananas looking like Manix's counterwagon, Manix himself never bothered to push Bananas' lynch even though he could have done so to weasel out of a lynch, which casts doubt on any town cred Bananas' slot would obtain from that. Also notable is Iris mentioning Bananas in early posts from both days but not actually commiting to "I find him scummy" instead of "I think he's waffly an inactive". Would like a more thorough post from Kaoz right now at least.

I'm alright with BBM lynch but still don't find the case on him too strong for the same reasons as yesterday. Marth hasn't really stopped being suspect either but I feel a lot of people are scummier than him from the flips we have, also the weird Iris double-standard makes me think she was being honest about his post looking townie-OK.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Weapons tunneling on BBM makes me think that he doesn't want to contribute and is using that as a front =/

I'm trying to lynch my top scumread. What are you doing?

This makes no sense at all- there isn't a single person except maybe you who would make me look townier if they flipped scum. Why are you using such a bad reason for your tunnelling? This is going to look like an OMGUS but ##Vote: Weapons.

You're damn right it's OMGUS. You're not actually interested in scumhunting, and so you're taking the easy way out to attack someone who attacked you to make your defending look like scumhunting. If you were rational town, you'd see that what I said was not a reason for, but just not a reason against.

Also before anyone asks me the same thing, I have no clue, my reads are practically non-existant in this game.

Then what was the point of everything you did yesterday?

And Serious Bananas completely slipped under the radar. I'm kind of responsible for that, but still like everyone dropped their reads.

I am still not really for or against a Rapier lynch, but I may end up getting talked into one.

Prims for new most town player.

[Paperblade]

Why do you think that BBM's insistence on getting himself lynched over Rapier is still scummy? It does not make sense to me unless at least one of them is town.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34602&st=120&p=2096523entry2096523

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34602&st=480&p=2101892entry2101892

Posts like these make me think that BBM is town. Iris did not really interact with Manix other than saying "He's scummy but I'm going to vote <other users> instead"

Now it's totally possible that Iris is distancing herself from all her teammates, but I think it's more likely that Manix did something really stupid and was going to get lynched one way or another, so she decided to just start busing him asap

[Prims]

Paperblade, less on who is town and more on who is scum please

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Why do you think that BBM's insistence on getting himself lynched over Rapier is still scummy? It does not make sense to me unless at least one of them is town.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34602&st=120&p=2096523entry2096523

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34602&st=480&p=2101892entry2101892

Posts like these make me think that BBM is town. Iris did not really interact with Manix other than saying "He's scummy but I'm going to vote <other users> instead"

Now it's totally possible that Iris is distancing herself from all her teammates, but I think it's more likely that Manix did something really stupid and was going to get lynched one way or another, so she decided to just start busing him asap

BBM could do that to convince people like you that he is town. Why do think he's being genuine?

And quote those posts.

[Kaoz]

Interesting points from Iris re-read:

Pointless speculation but the fact that Iris was doing the hardbussing (she kept her Manix vote down even after claim) makes me feel like she was probably the most competent player on the scumteam during D1 since they entrusted the earlygame bus to her.

Why? Weapons, Paperblade, Strawman and yourself also didn't switch after the claim, and obviously none of you has flipped yet.

Apparently Iris likes to poke people for town reads as scum aka token questioning. She did it with Marth and Rapier, but there's a double standard present here - she was OK with Marth's reads despite them being standard for that point only because his post was well-written, but Rapier's post was not particularly strong (at least not according to her) yet she has no problem with him anyway. Think this makes Rapier look worse.

I'm not sure why you structured this part like you did. While what you say in the second half is certainly true, those statements were regarding Marth's and Rapier's original posts, not in response to the ones she requested. Maybe I'm just reading it oddly, but it threw me off for a moment.

Would like a more thorough post from Kaoz right now at least.

And I would like to give you one, but as I said a few hours ago, I don't really have anything. It's not even like in Xenoblade where I had reads on half the game and just didn't go through with them, I just get lots and lots of nulls this time (which is somewhat frustrating tbh). The current activity level isn't exactly helping me either.

As for the Manix flip for yesterday's posts, I simply didn't deem them indicative enough for me to lean towards either side based on them. Core struck me as disinterested as I said, almost all of scorri's stuff was at a time when Manix was already pretty obvious mafia and in Rapier's case they flat out didn't help me.

@Weapons

Just because I have nothing right now doesn't mean it has to stay like that forever. So I guess you could sum it up as "attempting to get something".

I'll see whether things go any better tomorrow and maybe I can be of more assistance then, but it's 1:40 now, so yeah.

[Paperblade]

@Weapons: Honestly? Because I don't think BBM would think that far ahead to mindgame people like that

@Prims: Uh, you could reread my posts before that, but okay...

Weapons is scummy because he's been tunneling BBM since Day 3 and something just seems off.

Kaoz is scummy because he didn't really *do* anything and voted someone who was under no threat of being lynched close to deadline, and the person he subbed in for was pretty scummy too due to an utter lack of content.

Rapier's waffling late Day 1 was weird, and his "sub me out, wait no don't" was also weird.

StSS's inactivity also bothers me but I don't know if that's actually scummy since he does have some good posts

I am less sure about Rapier and StSS atm. Rapier mainly since I read the Iris questions differently than you--as her trying to fish for a good nightkill from Marth and Rapier, and her responses were just kind of BS coverup stuff, StSS because I just don't know.

[BBM]

Okay, I'm still suspicious of Weapons, but after a bit of a reread I think Scorri looks worse. This post by Marth against Scorri is pretty decent and I don't think she's answered it.

SB's actions on D2 and D3 were pretty much exactly the same, yet her opinion changed pretty radically from this to the opinion she expresses in Marth's post. Also in the post I just linked, she waffles a lot about Manix. She gives reasons for voting him, but then says that some of the scummy things that he's done can be excused. I understand why she wouldn't want to vote for Manix, but the bit about him is still just too waffly for me. Then later she says yeah yeah he's obvscum (just about when other people are doing pretty much the same thing).

And then while she's had a valid excuse, she didn't do much scumhunting on D3 at all, or at all this phase either, despite having posted twice.

[BBM]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Scorri

Forgot that bit.

[Bluedoom]

So BBM, what is your view on Scorri and Weapons right now? Do you think they could be buddies?

[Bluedoom]

Early bussing is a thing. IMO it's the best time to bus because people suspect it the least that early, and you get more town cred for it than just jumping on the wagon midway through. Plus I'm not really sure that you could say that Weapons started the case against Manix anyways. He placed the first D3 vote against Manix and then didn't actually explain it until later when other people had already pointed out some of the scummy things Manix had done.

And also, Marth, you realize that someone has to be at majority or there's a randomlynch, right? There were like 30 minutes before phase end when Rapier voted Wen. The only possible lynch choices were me, Rapier, and Wen. We needed a majority and he piled onto the person with the most votes so that we could reach it.

Ok I didn't really notice that he had only 30 min left.

[Bluedoom]

Early bussing is a thing. IMO it's the best time to bus because people suspect it the least that early, and you get more town cred for it than just jumping on the wagon midway through. Plus I'm not really sure that you could say that Weapons started the case against Manix anyways. He placed the first D3 vote against Manix and then didn't actually explain it until later when other people had already pointed out some of the scummy things Manix had done.

And also, Marth, you realize that someone has to be at majority or there's a randomlynch, right? There were like 30 minutes before phase end when Rapier voted Wen. The only possible lynch choices were me, Rapier, and Wen. We needed a majority and he piled onto the person with the most votes so that we could reach it.

Ok I didn't really notice that he had only 30 min left.

[scorri]

You're right that I haven't addressed that post yet. However, if you look, I also hadn't posted after that except to explain why I hadn't been around. So, here's a response to it now.

Yeah, my view on SB changed radically. However, the reason for that is because I looked back over his posts and went and reread some of the games where he was town, and I noticed that his play was basically the same as previous times when he was town. To me, the more I read it, the more I felt like his posts were him being his normal unexperienced town.

As for Manix, I'm always hesitant to jump on a wagon that's built relatively quickly. Along with that, I'd seen similar play from him where he was town and would focus solely on one person and then would flip town. So, I was a little unsure if I wanted to get on that wagon, but later when I went and reread I realized that other people had a point and he was acting really scummy. And as for him being obvious scum, that was after he had claimed bomb or whatever. At that point, he was in fact obvious scum.

Ok, scum reads like Kaoz asked. I'm still not feeling BBM. As I stated yesterday, I feel like his posts were filled with mostly trying to get people off of him by diverting attention and not actually scum hunting. I also feel like Straw hasn't really been around, and then yesterday, he had a vote on BBM, later claimed he wasn't sure a BBM lynch but didn't unvote BBM. Then his very next post he says he's fine with a BBM lynch. It feels like he's trying to contribute by seeming to scum hunt, but he doesn't really give anything to the ongoings. So.

##Vote: BBM

I would also be ok with a Straw lynch