I Can't Believe It's Not SFMM3 Minimafia - Game Over

[Kay]

##Unvote, Vote: Kay

People who vocalize near clears as not clears tend to be scum. Rest of your play is also lacking.

And that in order to get a reply, a player has to know my role is what mostly clears me. This would be highly detrimental to third party and the role itself is rather useless for a mafia team.

Disagree with the Aere wagon. He sounds town.

Also still waiting on Paperblade.

You have a point about that. It would be rather useless, but that doesn't mean it can be totally ruled out. If the rest of my play is so lacking, why haven't you mentioned it earlier? I don't recall you saying anything about it until now.

That said, I'm pretty sure Weapons is town anyway.

Any particular reason why Aere sounds town in your opinion?

[Aere]

Kay, I guess you missed my post a few pages back. To summarize, I don't like Boron right now, because she is very hesitant and passive. I want to see her posts a bit more before I vote, though.

[Aere]

So what I had with Manix wasn't an opinion?

[Helios]

Shinori, just curious; you were fairly aggressive on the Elieson lynch, but it seems that after that Weapons post you changed your mind to your second scumspect, Marth. Why is that?

[Kay]

Kay, I guess you missed my post a few pages back. To summarize, I don't like Boron right now, because she is very hesitant and passive. I want to see her posts a bit more before I vote, though.

Fair enough. Why are you not voting? Are you worried about bandwagons? What would it take for you to vote for someone?

##Unvote: Aere

##Vote: Scorri

[Aere]

I'm not voting right now because A. I want to hear a bit more from Boron, and B. I want to hear more from everybody else regarding Boron.

Why are you voting scorri?

[Aere]

Matter of fact, what are your thoughts on Boron?

[scorri]

Quite possibly trying to see my reaction. Unfortunately for Kay, it won't get much of one because I'm not threatened by it. So~

[Shinori]

Shinori, just curious; you were fairly aggressive on the Elieson lynch, but it seems that after that Weapons post you changed your mind to your second scumspect, Marth. Why is that?

Going to sleep I'll answer you tomorrow. It just seems that Elieson isn't going anywhere AT THE MOMENT. And I know I tunneled pretty bad in EO so I'm gonna stop, before I start tunneling into Elieson and try to look at a few other people, specifically Marth at the moment. But It's midnight, I'm tired, and I have work tomorrow, so more after work.

[Kay]

Quite possibly trying to see my reaction. Unfortunately for Kay, it won't get much of one because I'm not threatened by it. So~

Partially hoping for a reaction, partly I'm genuinely suspicious of you.

[scorri]

Kay: Ah ok. Any specific reason, or just gut read? (Either is valid, just curious which)

[Kay]

Kay: Ah ok. Any specific reason, or just gut read? (Either is valid, just curious which)

Just gut. Any reason I should think otherwise?

[Sunwoo]

Kay, I guess you missed my post a few pages back. To summarize, I don't like Boron right now, because she is very hesitant and passive. I want to see her posts a bit more before I vote, though.

So you don't like my play style, in other words and you're suspecting me because of it. Because that went over well when Manix and Paperblade got into a "play style" argument, right?

Also, do you tend to do this a lot? First, you were tunneling Manix. Now, all you seem to care about is either hearing from me, or hearing what other people have to say about me. Are you incapable of focusing on more than one person at once or what? I don't think this alone makes you scum, but if done too incessantly it can lead to "tunneling" territory (like with Manix) and right now I feel like you're focusing on me for being "hesitant" and "passive" when this is just how I play on day 1. So deal with it. Being "hesitant and passive" in itself is not a scum read, nor is a different play style. :|

I don't dislike Shinori right now, his posts seem coherent and reasonable, I can see where he's coming from. I like Weapons a bit more, but I'm not going to completely write him off because the last time I blindly believed someone's claim uh ... yeah. I still have no problems with Manix.

Helios I feel is town, but really he could go either way with me. I like his later posts more than the first ones. Kay hasn't said anything particularly memorable to me, and I don't like that too much. And scorri hasn't done anything to make me suspicious.

Marth has been on only briefly and during that time wrote up one post that at first glance looks good but then I read through it and I feel less good about him. Would like to hear more from him. Elieson's looking ... weird. Just weird. And his earlier activity didn't seem particularly good either. I just don't get a good feeling from him.

Cam needs to get back here. Claiming miller doesn't mean he can just exit the game and not contribute. Strider needs to exist more.

And now, I am going to bed. I'm irritable and have a long day at school tomorrow.

[Paperblade]

@Weapons: I was going to tell you privately to include some sort of code so that you could prove you had sent a certain message, but since you are apparently the only courier that's not necessary.

Also I'm going to slap the next person that says "That's my playstyle stop attacking me for it" when someone points out that they're acting anti-town. And by slap I mean vote.

[Bluedoom]

Ok so the reason I thought Manix was bringing that argument up again was that weird reaction against Paper's comment: "Stop being dumb." I just saw that comment as simple one and a subtle nudge to maybe move out of RVS, that's all. I just felt Manix overreacted. I don't recall Manix ever talking about his playstyle getting attacked, which is why I thought it looked bad. I didn't like the fact that he was finding whoever found him suspicious suspicious, and thought that was pretty scummy. Now that I know he's acting like that with everyone(and Kay's suggestion that Manix might be Levity makes sense) I guess its reasonable but really I couldn't guess it earlier. Still feel quite annoyed with the playstyle argument(recently Boron's counter). Do you know that my playstyle is such where town can find me scummy for silly reasons? Meta suggests I'm naturally scummy, somehow. Why don't you give me a pass then, its my playstyle! -.- Also I can't be expected to know whether a player was feeling down the previous day or not unless he somewhere publicly stated so, and even then I have to read that post to know that.

b) So making one post about how I think claiming miller was a good idea and then moving on to other things is arguing now? To me this feels like you're using claim discussion as an excuse to call out people as scummy without any other support for it. There's also no point in bringing it up again since we have moved on from it. We're clearly not going to spend lots of time on it when the argument is essentially over.

No, its not about claim discussion, its about active lurking. If you start discussing about stuff like "No vanillas should not claim its bad!" that is not helping us scumhunt at all, and it may look like its contributing. Take Xenoblade for example. A couple of scum blended in simply by talking about vanillas claiming. That is technically active lurking and unlike last time I wouldn't want to let that go by unnoticed. Sure this time instead its 'useless townies claiming' but its still similar. I agree, you just had one post on it, cool, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't question you or make note of that. And maybe I could've phrased it better, because yes the discussion was short but was not needed. It wasn't exactly a long argument but pretty sure, eh w/e.

Elie's listposting looks horrible and dunno why he doesn't have a lot of votes on him so ##Unvote ##Vote: Elieson

Would like Scorri to post more opinions because since I last left I haven't seen any new reads. Only one I've seen is one on Weapons. I can't blame you because a lot of discussion was about Weapons' role, which caused quite the confusion, but reads please when you come back online.

Aere looks bad for posting fluff, yeah, but not so scummy that he should be voted over Elieson. Don't really think his Manix vote was that bad, although it'd have been better if he had tried reading other players instead of concentrating on one.

Don't think Boron is really scummy although I disagree with her somewhat. Earlier her view on why Weapons didn't look good isn't really something I agree with. Weapons isn't used to playing with Elieson, so he doesn't know that Elie usually rants about RVS. He hasn't played a lot with most of us and his view about RVS is totally different. So his vote on Elieson early on wasn't really bad if you ask me. Also disagree on Paperblade being scummy or looking bad but that's just my view really. Also disagree with Aere thinking she's hesitating a lot- you don't need STRONG scum reads on D1 to look town or scream townie, she's been addressing flaws of other players. Also don't really get what you meant by saying I 'took sides'. Yeah tbh I'll admit if anything I'm saying Paperblade isn't really that scummy but I'm not really taking sides. If you look at Weapons vs Elieson for example, you'll see why I find Elieson scummy- the overreaction wasn't needed especially when you think in Weapons' position his vote kinda make sense. After that its just been going downhill when it comes to Elie. Its not as much taking sides as its more of seeing why things would've happened.

Would like Cam and Strider to come in and say more. Also the only notable thing really that has happened today is discussion about Weapons' message and finally a confirmation of his role. Still can't really say anything about his alignment though, so I can't make much out of it.

And finally Boron that recent post felt like it questioned my activity but if so: I've got school and all, I can't really post often.

[Bluedoom]

Oh yeah and by fluff I do mean those prods and comments which are unnecessary and should find better cases.

[Bluedoom]

forgot to bold it. ##Unvote ##Vote: Elieson

[Kay]

Marth: How is Elieson listposting?

[Bluedoom]

He started posting ISOs of players with huge posts about them when he was already looking bad. If anything that looks more like desperate attempts to contribute more than anything. its there a few pages back. There wasn't any real need to do that when you can address everything neatly in one single post.

[Bluedoom]

actually now that I think about it it doesn't look as much of 'listposting' since list posts are bland. Its more of... ISO posting?

[Kay]

Yeah. I agree that it looked a bit contrived, but it wasn't listposting, and was a bit more complicated, IMO. In fact, I'd say it leans more toward tunneling than listposting.

[Bluedoom]

ah well, generally think he's had the worst reactions so far, eh.

[Aere]

Are you incapable of focusing on more than one person at once or what?

Getting close to ad hominem, but you said you were irritable so w/e.

I don't think this alone makes you scum, but if done too incessantly it can lead to "tunneling" territory (like with Manix) and right now I feel like you're focusing on me for being "hesitant" and "passive" when this is just how I play on day 1. So deal with it. Being "hesitant and passive" in itself is not a scum read, nor is a different play style. :|

Being hesitant and passive may very well be a scumread, as it can just be flying under the radar.

Also, guys, playstyle can mean a whole lot. Check out Bizz and Rapier, for example.

And how are my "prods" bad? Kay is flat out voting and unvoting to prod, while I'm just questioning people.

[scorri]

Bah, not actually really around right now. Marth: I will attempt to go more in depth into your question later today, but as of right now, Weapons, Manix, Paper appear town based off of reactions to other players, and just general play right now, don't like you, don't like Aere's vote and then unvote on Manix (seemed opportunistic and then town pandering) neutral on Boron, dunno on Elie I could see both on him, and null on pretty much everyone else. I will try and explain more later, yes I realize this can be seen as an empty list post, but I really don't have time to post anything more and didn't want to just ignore your question when I am online for a bit.

Kay: I feel like I've been generally protown in my actions, I feel like I have been doing some scumhunting, and obviously I know I'm town ( :P ), but besides that, I'm not sure how I'll be able to convince you I'm town. But meh. Like I said, your one vote doesn't really bother me.

[Kay]

And how are my "prods" bad? Kay is flat out voting and unvoting to prod, while I'm just questioning people.

I'm voting for the people I find scummy, with the exception of voting for Cam like, 10 minutes into the phase. People's reactions just often reduce my suspicion on them, so I change my vote.

Plus, uh, voting is good. If no one votes, things don't happen. And that's the thing. You're just questioning people. That doesn't mean much. You could be prodding someone because you think they're scum and need to talk more, or you could think they're town and want to hear their opinions. It doesn't show any of your own thoughts.

##Unvote: Scorri