WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I don't think there is a good reason for town to want to know this information. The town does not know who is scum just giving crappy information so even if they were a role like Watcher or Doctor that wants to target townie people, it can still be misled. This is insufficient. 1. I can think of reason as town to ask for town reads. It promotes discussion and allows for more focused efforts to lynch someone. Additionally, if scum's responses can be analyzed when they die. 2. Is there scum motivation to fish for town reads more likely than the above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 @Mods, can we have an extension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 1. Could you please list your top 3-5 town reads, in no particular order unless you so choose to?2. Who do you find most scummy at the moment and why? 3. Currently if we had a hypothetical vig, what would you want them to do this night? 4. If we had a hypothetical town roleblocker, what would you want them to do this night? I have a ton of problems with this. First off, why would you ask for multiple town reads, and not multiple scum ones? Hell, I know Paper said this, but what's the point of even asking this in the first place? Second, wouldn't you want the vig to kill the person you think the scummiest is? And lastly, I don't think anybody has even come NEAR to mentioning a power role, so I don't even know why you would ask #4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 i'm going to work under the assumption that it was a not-so-subtle softclaim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 err that was @ shinori's last question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I was mistaken, I though I was like the #2 person voting Elieson at the time. My bad. Not everyone always explains their unvotes. Sometimes an unvote is as simple as "I find this player more scummy so I'm gonna vote him instead." The reason I had unvoted was a mix of me making sure I wasn't tunneling, a mix up on the vote count because I thought there was less than what you say there was on Elieson at the time, and me finding Marth more scummy than Elieson at the time. Marth then showed up later, I think today while I was working, and posted more, which didn't really help him all that much, but at the same time I then had reread most of the thread, including all of Aere's posts, which caused me to swap off of Marth onto Aere because I found him more scummy than either Marth or Elieson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 @Aere: A town roleblocker wouldn't want to block a town PR. He would want to block scummy players expected to do the kill. MEntioning power roles has nothing to do with it. @Weapons: Gimme a sec and I'll compare a few things for you between the two games. And yes I have looked at scum games for players and town games for players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Not everyone always explains their unvotes. Sometimes an unvote is as simple as "I find this player more scummy so I'm gonna vote him instead." The reason I had unvoted was a mix of me making sure I wasn't tunneling, a mix up on the vote count because I thought there was less than what you say there was on Elieson at the time, and me finding Marth more scummy than Elieson at the time. But you didn't explain that at all. Like, it was: #vote Elie Elie posts #vote Marth with absolutely no justification of the Marth vote. You didn't even say he was scummy in that post (and if you did say before the vote, please direct me to it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 @Aere: A town roleblocker wouldn't want to block a town PR. He would want to block scummy players expected to do the kill. MEntioning power roles has nothing to do with it. Yeah, but you'd want them to block some sort of power role. So, you're asking "who do you think is a powerole/scum?" which just gives mafia a better shot at killing one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 @Aere: A town roleblocker wouldn't want to block a town PR. He would want to block scummy players expected to do the kill. MEntioning power roles has nothing to do with it. why would you bring it up at all like why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 But you didn't explain that at all. Like, it was: #vote Elie Elie posts #vote Marth with absolutely no justification of the Marth vote. You didn't even say he was scummy in that post (and if you did say before the vote, please direct me to it) Why is this indicative of scum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Home from jobs 1&2. Kids are in bed, and prepped for school tomorrow. Long ass day that I really don't feel like reminding myself of by talking about. Give me a few while play catchup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Why is this indicative of scum? The wagon hop just really didn't gel with me, considering that his other play in this game consisted of him explaining his votes and such. (Bar RVS, but RVS). And if I wanted to meta him, his posts just seem so very different in this game to others, which also unnerves me. meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No, I didn't say Marth was scummy before that post. He hadn't really existed that much though before then and after seeing that he had done really next to nothing and to make sure I wasn't tunneling Elieson since I almost killed a doc last game I did that, I decided to look at other players. I stated that last night, I was just lazy playing Fire Emblem and didn't feel like posting a larger post with reasons at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If you want to meta me you can meta me all you want, over the past few games I've been trying to change my gameplay to be a better player so my style has been changing. Compare my play in theatre to EO and you have two vastly different styles and then compare them both to SSBU and I'm pretty sure you will find out that all 3 games were played differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If you want to meta me you can meta me all you want, over the past few games I've been trying to change my gameplay to be a better player so my style has been changing. Compare my play in theatre to EO and you have two vastly different styles and then compare them both to SSBU and I'm pretty sure you will find out that all 3 games were played differently. I am quite aware of this, but something about your posts still seems forced to me. Eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 ##Unvote ##Vote Shinori I get that you're trying to promote discussion in an otherwise quite day today, but that's not how you do it. The only question that makes sense to ask is number 2, though people should be scumhunting anyway. What makes things suspicious to me is that you believe that scum should NK either the most townie players or Rein, and you're helping them do so by asking who everyone thinks is most obvtown? And why are questions three and four even asked? With question three it looks like you're either soft-claiming vig and asking for help on who to shoot, or you're scum trying to figure out who not to shoot. I'm just not seeing the point. And at this point there is no reasoning behind a roleblock since no one has anyway to know who has a PR. I don't see how this is supposed to help the town at all. Also you never did explain why you jumped from Elieson to Marth with one post, especially since you were fairly aggressive on lynching him earlier. IMO Elieson's post about Weapons wasn't any different than his other ones and shouldn't have changed your opinion on him whatsoever. Also Elieson has been the safest person to vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Also Shinori, to be fair, I did ask you to explain your vote on Marth since it confused me before, and you said you would when you woke up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Also Elieson has been the safest person to vote for. Why is this part even stated? Also why is justifiyng my vote swap that important? Players do it constantly and a lot of the times don't answer why they swapped until asked why. Here's an example that happened in this thread. Fair enough. Why are you not voting? Are you worried about bandwagons? What would it take for you to vote for someone? ##Unvote: Aere ##Vote: Scorri I'm not voting right now because A. I want to hear a bit more from Boron, and B. I want to hear more from everybody else regarding Boron. Why are you voting scorri? Partially hoping for a reaction, partly I'm genuinely suspicious of you. Was her unvote/vote scummy because she didn't explain it until asked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Going to sleep I'll answer you tomorrow. It just seems that Elieson isn't going anywhere AT THE MOMENT. And I know I tunneled pretty bad in EO so I'm gonna stop, before I start tunneling into Elieson and try to look at a few other people, specifically Marth at the moment. But It's midnight, I'm tired, and I have work tomorrow, so more after work. Specifically I say "tomorrow". I also said after work. I also stated why I unvoted in this post and part of the reason why I voted Marth in this post. So after ISOing a few specific players and rereading the thread my top scum reads would be Marth, Elieson, and Aere. Elieson has been posting a lot of stuff that i really don't think is required, I don't know if i could classify this as tunneling or scum trying to look like helpful town, or what. Marth's posts aren't all that good either. He has two bigger posts, #143 and #265, these two posts seem large and look like actual fluff to me. I think it's true that the word fluff is thrown around quite a lot but these two posts actually look like fluff. There is stuff in the posts that aren't needed. The majority of his other posts are actual posts ADDING ON to his larger posts, like #266 and #267, these posts aren't all that good, I mean it happens, I do the same thing A LOT, as we all know. Marth, I know you have school and all that, but could you post a bit more when you get a chance that isn't in large posts. Also; Could you please give me more scum reads than just Elieson? Your most recent post said he was scummy and then you said Aere looked bad but wasn't more scummy than Elieson, so who is actually scum besides him? Now onto Aere, I don't really think the Manix vote he did was all that bad, I know there was talking about it but I don't think it was bad. HOWEVER, I feel that his post #142 wasn't all that good. He seemed to get awfully defensive when someone mentioned that his vote was bad when he didn't need to get that touchy on the situation. Over the next few posts he seems to post more stuff about Manix to then come to his post #175, where he unvotes manix because it was 'obviously an unpopular idea', which I don't like, if you feel someone is scummy, why would you unvote them just because other people don't like it? Tunneling is bad but if you have a legit, logical reason for voting someone for scummy behavior then I don't feel you should unvote them just because a few people didn't like it. I also don't like how Aere still doesn't have a vote on anyone at the moment and I feel that he should get one, his only vote was on Manix all game and then he started questioning people and has for the most part only be talking about Kay and Boron. He seems to have dropped his Manix suspicious but hasn't said anything about him being town to him. At the moment I'm leaning strong scum reads on Marth and Aere and a weaker scum read on Elieson. Town reads on Weapons, Cam, Manix, and Paperblade. Leaning town on Kay and Boron. Strider needs to exist and if he doesn't do anything then he's likely to be killed by scum tonight for a no info kill, which won't help us what-so-ever. Anyone not listed is null, could be leaning one way or the other but I don't feel like it's enough to mention. All of this being said out of my two strong scum reads of marth and Aere, I like the Aere lynch better at the moment, for reasons stated above. If he can convince me that he is more town then I'll swap off of him and onto Marth. ##Unvote: ##Vote: Aere And then I posted this when I got home from work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Not really, because she was trying to get reactions. While I'm not a fan of random votes that late into D1, Kay hadn't exactly done much till then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Not really, because she was trying to get reactions. While I'm not a fan of random votes that late into D1, Kay hadn't exactly done much till then... My vote wasn't for a reaction test but it easily could have been for a reaction, no one would have known that until I gave reasoning. So how was my specific unvote/vote scummy? It's the same situation. We both unvoted, and then revoted without stating a reason until prodded to do so. Yet I am given more fleck for doing so. Isn't that what you would call a double-standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm not calling you scummy for that, I'm calling you scummy because of your questions. Did you completely miss that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Chronological order; and read the quoted posts So this Weapons, message me please. was followed by this Actually, try ##Message WeaponsofMassConstruction "blah". This might be a discrepancy. and also a bit of ruckus concerning how Manix was able to send a message specifically to me, and my full claim. So then this Also I have yet to receive a message from Weapons, presumably because Prims isn't around. is followed by this @Weapons: I was going to tell you privately to include some sort of code so that you could prove you had sent a certain message, but since you are apparently the only courier that's not necessary. but if you recall the events from above, this does not make sense. Paperblade, why did you announce me not sending a message to you when you could've messaged me the code to begin with? Why did you then say it's not necessary to correspond anymore since I'm the only courier but still say you didn't get a message yet? This may a scumslip. ##Unvote, Vote: Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I didn't say you called me scummy for the vote. Some players find the vote scummy though, I want your opinion on that situation. Do you find my unvote/vote scummy? You know RQS used to be something that happened here on SF A LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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