I Can't Believe It's Not SFMM3 Minimafia - Game Over

[Grace]

okay so I just skimmed the thread

Marth; stop, that vote on me was just as awful as Aere's. Details shortly.

Aere; nice justification (not), tell me when you're going to stop tunneling and being opportunistic.

Elie; blahhhh those posts, I really don't be bothered to read them right now

[Grace]

lolcut, but still

gimme a bit

[Sunwoo]

I feel like Elie and Boron are fishing for reasons. Elie's don't make that much sense, especially his textbook OMGUS (which I don't think was RVS) on Weapons earlier. Boron isn't confident, with very passive reads. Everything is "He kinda sorta normally plays like this" or "I'll check it out again later..."

I'm sorry that I'm not immediately confident on my scum reads on day 1? -_- I know that a lot of people here play mafia by confronting each other directly and immediately giving reasons as to why. But that just doesn't come naturally to me (yet) and if I tried it then you'd all be saying my scum hunting is too forced. I don't have good reads on day 1. Do you want me to just disappear until I can point fingers and be 100% confident in all my reads? Because I can do that if you like.

[scorri]

Dear Elie, please see my last few posts before you say all I've done is talk about the miller claim. I made one post that mentioned the miller claim and it wasn't the whole post. K? Cool.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I'm not role fishing. When I type, I usually write out the first thing that I think of. Seriously, I don't even know why you posted that your reads on Manix were for reasons not on this thread. That implies that you're implying something, and I'd think you would want to keep such a thing secret. Otherwise, someone is going to comment on it. Like me.

You were not exactly role-fishing, but what you are doing is trying to make information I do not yet wish to share public. Do you think I am scummy for not wanting to share this? If so, why? Have you considered town/scum motivation? Do you think all secrets should be revealed to town at the beginning of a game (note that this includes roles)?

[Aere]

I'm sorry that I'm not immediately confident on my scum reads on day 1? -_- I know that a lot of people here play mafia by confronting each other directly and immediately giving reasons as to why. But that just doesn't come naturally to me (yet) and if I tried it then you'd all be saying my scum hunting is too forced. I don't have good reads on day 1. Do you want me to just disappear until I can point fingers and be 100% confident in all my reads? Because I can do that if you like.

I think in the Mafia info thread, Kay says something like this: It doesn't matter if your reads are right or wrong, but confidence is what matters. You're not going to convince anybody with halfhearted attempts. So if you feel like somebody is kind of scummy, come out and say it.

[scorri]

I do not have Manix on my scumwatch because of any points made in thread so far. I will not elaborate on my reasons yet.

This is not a good idea and strikes me very weirdly. If you have reasons for thinking someone is scum, then say them. If it's a gut read, then say that. If it's for something completely unrelated to the game, then that's not very helpful, but still say it. If you die, we have no way of knowing why you felt the way you did. Just putting someone on your "scumwatch" and not giving reasoning is blatantly unhelpful to the town. It gives us nothing useful.

Boron: I... had a life? I'm not sure why you're asking where I went when I was gone for ~3 hours. I'm not going to be around 100% of the time. I'm at college, I have a life. However, even with that, I've posted a decent amount, I've interacted with people, and I've explained the reads that I have. If I haven't mentioned anyone it's either because I have a null read, or because I have a slight town read that isn't worth mentioning yet because it will turn my post into looking like a list post with little to no justification to it. Which will in turn cause people to jump on me for that and find me suspicious and waste time. So, I didn't do that. Any other questions besides where I "disappeared" to?

[Sunwoo]

You were not exactly role-fishing, but what you are doing is trying to make information I do not yet wish to share public. Do you think I am scummy for not wanting to share this? If so, why? Have you considered town/scum motivation? Do you think all secrets should be revealed to town at the beginning of a game (note that this includes roles)?

You stated: "for reasons not in this thread" as your reason. Even if I'm the only one who actually said something, this IMPLIES you know something. I don't think you're scummy for not wanting to share. I think it's suspicious you would SAY this in the FIRST place. If I were you, I'd have said nothing and not have a "scumwatch" everyone can see if I weren't going to expound on it with reasons supported in the thread.

[Sunwoo]

I think in the Mafia info thread, Kay says something like this: It doesn't matter if your reads are right or wrong, but confidence is what matters. You're not going to convince anybody with halfhearted attempts. So if you feel like somebody is kind of scummy, come out and say it.

Manix got slammed for saying he had a "gut feeling." Why would you guys react any differently if all I really had was "just a feeling"?

Boron: I... had a life? I'm not sure why you're asking where I went when I was gone for ~3 hours. I'm not going to be around 100% of the time. I'm at college, I have a life. However, even with that, I've posted a decent amount, I've interacted with people, and I've explained the reads that I have. If I haven't mentioned anyone it's either because I have a null read, or because I have a slight town read that isn't worth mentioning yet because it will turn my post into looking like a list post with little to no justification to it. Which will in turn cause people to jump on me for that and find me suspicious and waste time. So, I didn't do that. Any other questions besides where I "disappeared" to?

Sorry, I think I might've missed some things myself. Maybe just a lot of stuff happened over the time you were gone, or I'm not remembering when your last post was.

[scorri]

I mean, about 20 or so posts happened, but that's not a ton.

[Sunwoo]

I mean, about 20 or so posts happened, but that's not a ton.

Yeah, I looked back the past few pages. I think that was just me being stupid or thinking about someone else and your name came up in my mind instead.

[scorri]

Ok. Just be careful about that. :/

[Prims]

Elieson (2) - Weapons, Shinori

San (2) - Paperblade, Strider

Aere (1) - Helios

Bluedoom (1) - scorri

Manix (1) - Bluedoom

CT075 (1) - San

Weapons (1) - Elieson

Not Voting - Aere, CT075, Manix, Seoyeon

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 46 hours left in the day.

[Grace]

!!IMPORTANT NOTICE!!

While creating my content post, I received a message:

"It would be in our best interests to work together. How many are on your team?"

Whoever this was; hi 3rd party. I can't help you because I'm not scum, and I don't know how many there are.

!!End Notice!!

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

This is not a good idea and strikes me very weirdly. If you have reasons for thinking someone is scum, then say them. If it's a gut read, then say that. If it's for something completely unrelated to the game, then that's not very helpful, but still say it. If you die, we have no way of knowing why you felt the way you did. Just putting someone on your "scumwatch" and not giving reasoning is blatantly unhelpful to the town. It gives us nothing useful.

Can you think of no good reasons why? And the sheer fact that it exists is helpful. Also, do you understand my RVS related argument?

You stated: "for reasons not in this thread" as your reason. Even if I'm the only one who actually said something, this IMPLIES you know something. I don't think you're scummy for not wanting to share. I think it's suspicious you would SAY this in the FIRST place. If I were you, I'd have said nothing and not have a "scumwatch" everyone can see if I weren't going to expound on it with reasons supported in the thread.

That is not exactly what I stated as my reason. Actually, you make a good point I hadn't considered. However, why would you not want to establish your viewpoints if you have them?

Manix got slammed for saying he had a "gut feeling." Why would you guys react any differently if all I really had was "just a feeling"?

/quote]

Well it depends on how you go about saying it.

[Helios]

@Aere: Hypocrtitical Paperblade vote? What? And how was my vote on you opportunistic? You look scummy, for the reasons I stated, therefore I'll vote for you. That's how you play the game. I also found Marth, for reasons that I stated, scummy. I'm not defending Manix, but your votes on him were just horrible, and I called you out for it. Now quit tunneling Manix and scumhunt.

Elieson feels like he's throwing in the white towel with all this listposting. I get that he's trying to throw his opinions out there and all, but I'm not sure why he's giving up so early. Elieson, if you're going to do this though, at least reread the thread and rethink some of your opinions when you have some time on your PC later. I can think of Scorri and myself specifically off the top of my head where you really only focused on a specific subject from our posts (the Cam thing) and forgot about everything else. Feels like you just skimmed through rather than really reread.

Speaking of rereading, I don't feel like ISOing players counts as rereading because you don't know the context of the posts they make. ISOing is supposed to be when you're trying to recall specific posts IMO. That's a side note though.

[scorri]

Weapons: I mean, yes it can get reactions. I think I understand your RVS argument, but what I'm saying is that overall, stating you find someone scummy without a reason that's based in thread is... weird. I'm also not saying I find you especially scummy. Your play reminds me of Theatre, and I honestly believe that you are trying to scum hunt and get reactions, but the way you're going about it seems weird and it could just be I don't understand it, but I'm hard pressed to find a solid reason why not giving your reasoning for finding someone suspicious is a good thing.

[Sunwoo]

That is not exactly what I stated as my reason. Actually, you make a good point I hadn't considered. However, why would you not want to establish your viewpoints if you have them?

If I thought I were going to be killed overnight or that I had a good chance of being lynched that day phase, then I would throw everything I had onto the table, even if it were nothing but gut reads. If I didn't perceive such a scenario, I'd try to find justifiable reasons before stating that someone is scum. Of course, it's true that I could always be randomly killed overnight with no warning, but giving reasons as to your train of thought at least lets people know what you were thinking so that you can convince people of your case better.

Well it depends on how you go about saying it.

I suppose that's a fair point, but a gut read alone with little backed-up claim doesn't really help all that much.

[Paperblade]

Manix got slammed for saying he had a "gut feeling." Why would you guys react any differently if all I really had was "just a feeling"?

I slammed Manix because his "feeling" was approximately one hour into the game, not because it was a feeling.

[Sunwoo]

I slammed Manix because his "feeling" was approximately one hour into the game, not because it was a feeling.

That's a fair point, I guess it was pretty early in the day phase.

[Sunwoo]

Although you weren't the only one who called Manix out on it.

[Helios]

@Elieson: Oh yeah I forgot to say. I'm not finding Weapons obvtown, but IMO he's leaning town with his posts. His playstyle is different than what is normally seen, but different doesn't mean scummy (see Boron in Xenoblade). At least he's scumhunting, which is better than some people so far, and contributing to the game. I'd like him to explain more of his reads (like the scumwatch that's like baywatch) but otherwise I don't see anything wrong with him so far.

[Grace]

##content post

Holy crap, how is my Manix vote sheepy/wagony? I'm literally the only vote on him right now.

Nice misinterpretation there: The key word was opportunistic, not sheep/wagon. Also, this is also an overly defensive reaction, to which I really don't like.

On that note, Manix, you're awfully defensive whenever somebody calls you dumb or scummy.

Pot this is kettle

I don't like being attacked because of my playstyle. How would you like it if you were attacked for the way you play the game mechanically? Yeah you probably wouldn't like it either.

it might not make sense to you, fine. but it makes sense to me, sooooooooooo yeah. If you want to keep attacking my playstyle, I won't respond further.

the second case, if my gut feeling is wrong (which it could well be)

Woah, does nobody else see any problems with this?

Okay, now this just feels like you're grasping. Did you ever explain why you had a problem with this? I don't think so.

The Manix vs Paperblade debacle honestly looks silly tbh. Don't like Manix's reaction to Paperblade calling him out- there was no need to bring your argument over from the theater thread to this one. You basically got suspicious of Paper just because he called you out, and you don't like Aere because he voted you. Sure it'd be nice of Aere to post his opinions on the rest, but I do think he has a point on you. Also if you don't like Weapons' play at this point do you view Elieson as townish? ##Vote: Manix Btw, gut feeling is such a convenient argument, it isn't even funny.

What. Let's break this down.

Don't like Manix's reaction to Paperblade calling him out- there was no need to bring your argument over from the theater thread to this one.

Are you kidding me? The thing I quoted from Theatre was about a meta point, how the actual fuck did you construe that was bringing an argument over? Really pertinent question.

You basically got suspicious of Paper just because he called you out, and you don't like Aere because he voted you.

And? Your point being? Paper's general tone still bothers me, and Aere's reasons for voting me were quite awful.

Sure it'd be nice of Aere to post his opinions on the rest, but I do think he has a point on you.

Welcome to sheeping 101, where we make you learn to how to pretend to contribute! Yeah okay that's just bad.

Also if you don't like Weapons' play at this point do you view Elieson as townish?

Read these posts. I don't see Elie as town just because he is the antithesis to Weapons at this point. These situations aren't binary, you know.

(On the note of Weapons, I feel a little better about him, sooo)

Btw, gut feeling is such a convenient argument, it isn't even funny.

Piss off, stop attacking my playstyle. I will not respond to any further points about this; but here's the preemptive strike back (which I will quote if it comes up again):

"Finding someone scummy for their playstyle is completely stupid."

Also, why is my vote opportunistic? I was the first one to vote him...

scorri put it best in the post after this one (above quoted).

This post is also legit awful. That was to indicate that I saw Paper was slightly scummy, hence the "I've got my eye on you". How the hell is that bad?

I will admit to a bit of tunneling on Manix, but more because I wasn't paying attention to the rest of the game rather than me aggressively wanting to lynch him.

Are you kidding me. Seriously, you should be paying attention to the game. And this kinda feels like a retroactive apply of logic to make it seem better than it actually is.

##Unvote because voting Manix is clearly an unpopular idea.

Here we go, trying to appease the town by removing the vote to make it look better. Ugh.

I think in the Mafia info thread, Kay says something like this: It doesn't matter if your reads are right or wrong, but confidence is what matters. You're not going to convince anybody with halfhearted attempts. So if you feel like somebody is kind of scummy, come out and say it.

I see so many double standards forming. And I don't like it.

I slammed Manix because his "feeling" was approximately one hour into the game, not because it was a feeling.

Tone of posts early on can still be legit, you know. So sorry for trying!

##end content post

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

!!IMPORTANT NOTICE!!

While creating my content post, I received a message:

"It would be in our best interests to work together. How many are on your team?"

Whoever this was; hi 3rd party. I can't help you because I'm not scum, and I don't know how many there are.

!!End Notice!!

I should probably do this.

I claim Two-Way Courier. I can daymessage anyone, but can have only one back and forth per day. It seems we have sort of a spy-agent thing going on, so I figured I needed to claim so my role wouldn't be compromised.

I haven't messaged yet today, since I haven't thought of anything useful I can send, so does anyone have something they want to message me?

[Aere]

@Aere: Hypocrtitical Paperblade vote? What? And how was my vote on you opportunistic? You look scummy, for the reasons I stated, therefore I'll vote for you. That's how you play the game. I also found Marth, for reasons that I stated, scummy. I'm not defending Manix, but your votes on him were just horrible, and I called you out for it. Now quit tunneling Manix and scumhunt.

##Vote Paperblade

So far zero scumhunting, and some fluff posts. Also misreading this early isn't the best move either. He's reminding me of how he plays as scum as well and similar to his play in EO Mafia.

The first sentence was hypocritical, the last sentence was metagaming. I called your vote opportunistic because it was clear people were suspicious of me because of I was dealing with Manix.

Going to press what I thought earlier: Boron, who is your strongest scumread right now?