Gold Vanguard Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Ass Marth needs to be playable. Maybe after you beat the game for shits and giggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Well, let's see if I can answer as many questions/comments/etc. as possible in one shot: I wanted to make a more masculine and bold Marth design that didn't fall back on the "girliness" in the retro versions of his design. I wanted something that was less boring and more princely, and somewhat inspired by the FE13 version. This, as well as the fact his other colors are quite bright (see: red + gold) makes for an overly-poppy mug unless there's some sort of contrast added in. I liked the solemnity in the very dark navy blue in the FE13 design, and I really wanted a stronger, heavier presence than his usual medium blue. It always came off as too monochrome and almost a bit campy at times. In regards to the tiara, I didn't at all like how it was executed before, and I don't necessarily think I executed it quite right, either; my general premise for it was, however, to make it bold, and for it to stand out as a fully functional coronet he wears proudly on his head as a man rather than just a sentimental parting piece from his sister. I felt like it was being downplayed too much, and because I never really liked it before, I was determined not to downplay it further, but to bring it out, instead. Red cape rather than blue cape was kind of a fallback option, actually. I'd intended to make his cape double-sided, with red on the inside and blue on the outside, but because of the palette I ended up using, there simply ended up being too much blue going on, and you really couldn't tell what it was. The red is also a much more aggressive statement, and breaks up the homogeneity of all the blue he wears. As for looking like Krom, yes, I know. It was entirely accidental, and I even admitted it to Overtroll when I posted a screenshot of my initial WIP. Personally, I would have liked it if he were less Krom-ish, but I feel like that'd also be falling back on some of that effeminacy that I'd prefer to avoid. It also sort of turned into an unintended shout-out to Krom being of his line, I guess, but I suppose that's a bit of an excuse, isn't it? Additionally, when I asked Arch about the way he wanted to portray the character, he said that Marth would be noble and determined. I asked him about creative liberties, and he more or less agreed to my interpretation and redesign. I might've overdone it a little, but I'd like to think of this Marth as Arch's Marth - for his re-envisioning of FE1 rather than simply being a straight-up remake. As such, making Marth a prince and not just another lord was also a big deal for me. Yes, my spriting style is really kind different from everyone else, and it does make for a rather sad contrast in styles, especially against Nih and Lumi's mugs. I'm going to say outright that I'm not going to change it, though. In closing, you don't have to like my design, my spriting, or me. Arch simply asked me to make him a mug, and I delivered a mug to him that satisfactorily suited his purpose. I'd be more than happy to take suggestions for editing technical issues with the mug, but I stand firmly by my redesign: I am not changing it (unless Arch gives into y'all and asks me to), it is not going to be changed, and if you don't like it, feel free to make a Marth yourself and submit it to Arch, because goodness knows the man needs some good portraits for his high-quality projects. If he wants to use it over mine, then all the power to you, mate. Hope that answers some questions. o 3o~ EDIT -- The miniskirt-ass-Marth is an inside joke. Please ignore that. Edited November 20, 2012 by · j e a l o u s y · Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 In closing, you don't have to like my design, my spriting, or me. Arch simply asked me to make him a mug, and I delivered a mug to him that satisfactorily suited his purpose. I'd be more than happy to take suggestions for editing technical issues with the mug, but I stand firmly by my redesign: I am not changing it (unless Arch gives into y'all and asks me to), it is not going to be changed, and if you don't like it, feel free to make a Marth yourself and submit it to Arch, because goodness knows the man needs some good portraits for his high-quality projects. If he wants to use it over mine, then all the power to you, mate. Hope that answers some questions. o 3o~ Whoa, I don't think anyone has a problem with you or your spriting style. I personally just pointed out that he isn't as inviting as previous Marths. (You can be manly and inviting at the same time.) On the colors thing, I was just curious. It's always interesting to hear the thoughts behind them. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shun One Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Well, let's see if I can answer as many questions/comments/etc. as possible in one shot: I wanted to make a more masculine and bold Marth design that didn't fall back on the "girliness" in the retro versions of his design. I wanted something that was less boring and more princely, and somewhat inspired by the FE13 version. This, as well as the fact his other colors are quite bright (see: red + gold) makes for an overly-poppy mug unless there's some sort of contrast added in. I liked the solemnity in the very dark navy blue in the FE13 design, and I really wanted a stronger, heavier presence than his usual medium blue. It always came off as too monochrome and almost a bit campy at times. In regards to the tiara, I didn't at all like how it was executed before, and I don't necessarily think I executed it quite right, either; my general premise for it was, however, to make it bold, and for it to stand out as a fully functional coronet he wears proudly on his head as a man rather than just a sentimental parting piece from his sister. I felt like it was being downplayed too much, and because I never really liked it before, I was determined not to downplay it further, but to bring it out, instead. Red cape rather than blue cape was kind of a fallback option, actually. I'd intended to make his cape double-sided, with red on the inside and blue on the outside, but because of the palette I ended up using, there simply ended up being too much blue going on, and you really couldn't tell what it was. The red is also a much more aggressive statement, and breaks up the homogeneity of all the blue he wears. As for looking like Krom, yes, I know. It was entirely accidental, and I even admitted it to Overtroll when I posted a screenshot of my initial WIP. Personally, I would have liked it if he were less Krom-ish, but I feel like that'd also be falling back on some of that effeminacy that I'd prefer to avoid. It also sort of turned into an unintended shout-out to Krom being of his line, I guess, but I suppose that's a bit of an excuse, isn't it? Additionally, when I asked Arch about the way he wanted to portray the character, he said that Marth would be noble and determined. I asked him about creative liberties, and he more or less agreed to my interpretation and redesign. I might've overdone it a little, but I'd like to think of this Marth as Arch's Marth - for his re-envisioning of FE1 rather than simply being a straight-up remake. As such, making Marth a prince and not just another lord was also a big deal for me. Yes, my spriting style is really kind different from everyone else, and it does make for a rather sad contrast in styles, especially against Nih and Lumi's mugs. I'm going to say outright that I'm not going to change it, though. The bolded is exactly what I thought upon seeing him for the first time. A non-girly take on Marth? Count me in. (stealithy adds this Marth's out-fit to Brawl...) EDIT: For clarification, I didn't exactly think Marth was particularly feminine to begin with. Edited November 21, 2012 by Shun One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Pretty sure that's not feminine. Or that. Now that I'm done being a dick, it's far from badly done, but it really doesn't look like Marth, and it doesn't really go with the other sprites. His facial features are too square and, as people have said, his eyes are oddly small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 In closing, you don't have to like my design, my spriting, or me. Arch simply asked me to make him a mug, and I delivered a mug to him that satisfactorily suited his purpose. I'd be more than happy to take suggestions for editing technical issues with the mug, but I stand firmly by my redesign: I am not changing it (unless Arch gives into y'all and asks me to), it is not going to be changed, and if you don't like it, feel free to make a Marth yourself and submit it to Arch, because goodness knows the man needs some good portraits for his high-quality projects. If he wants to use it over mine, then all the power to you, mate. Hope that answers some questions. o 3o~ can you not read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) can you not read In closing, you don't have to like my design, my spriting, or me. Arch simply asked me to make him a mug, and I delivered a mug to him that satisfactorily suited his purpose. I'd be more than happy to take suggestions for editing technical issues with the mug, but I stand firmly by my redesign: I am not changing it (unless Arch gives into y'all and asks me to), it is not going to be changed, and if you don't like it, feel free to make a Marth yourself and submit it to Arch, because goodness knows the man needs some good portraits for his high-quality projects. If he wants to use it over mine, then all the power to you, mate. Hope that answers some questions. o 3o~ I'd say making a sprite fit the character and mesh with the other sprites without sticking out like a sore thumb is a technical suggestion. Besides, I'm forcing him to change it. I'm giving constructive criticism which he can choose to listen to or not, depending on whether he agrees with it or not. Edited November 21, 2012 by bottlegnomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) I'd say making a sprite fit the character and mesh with the other sprites without sticking out like a sore thumb is a technical suggestion. Only problem with making it mesh is that it would mean changing the person's spriting style and Yes, my spriting style is really kind different from everyone else, and it does make for a rather sad contrast in styles, especially against Nih and Lumi's mugs. I'm going to say outright that I'm not going to change it, though. so while I agree with people who have mentioned that the eyes could stand to be a little larger, I don't see the problem with the sprite. It's well done, and it suits what Arch envisioned for the character (which is really what matters, not that it looks like "Marth" because this project isn't be written by IS, it's being written by Arch, so if it matches how Arch sees Marth then it's all good). So all I can really say is for the better spriters to step up if they don't like it, and try submitting a better Marth. people prolly gonna jump on me but w/e~ Edited November 21, 2012 by seph1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I'd say making a sprite fit the character and mesh with the other sprites without sticking out like a sore thumb is a technical suggestion. Besides, I'm forcing him to change it. I'm giving constructive criticism which he can choose to listen to or not, depending on whether he agrees with it or not. she already said she doesn't plan to change it, so I don't know where you're going with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) I'd say making a sprite fit the character and mesh with the other sprites without sticking out like a sore thumb is a technical suggestion. Besides, I'm forcing him to change it. I'm giving constructive criticism which he can choose to listen to or not, depending on whether he agrees with it or not. Technical issues; not stylistic ones, my friend. o 3o~ I can, however, make the eyes larger, if y'all think they're too proportionally small. Edited November 21, 2012 by · j e a l o u s y · Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Technical issues, not stylistic ones, my friend. o 3o~ yeah so go make the eyes a bit larger AK o 3 o I can, however, make the eyes larger, if y'all think they're too proportionally small. I think it's more so that he looks a bit like a douchebag, and while Marth doesn't need to be a smiley paragon of happiness, making him slightly more pleasant would probably help the sprite. Edited November 21, 2012 by seph1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) ^ Okay, but you have to make frames for every version I fix. :B EDIT @ your edit - I just made the eyes according to my sense of proportionality, but I can fix the expression some. Edited November 21, 2012 by · j e a l o u s y · Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 ^ Okay, but you have to make frames for every version I fix. :B > ~ > maybe > ~ > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Vanguard Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I find TC's version of Marth more manly than the regular Marth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Only problem with making it mesh is that it would mean changing the person's spriting style and so while I agree with people who have mentioned that the eyes could stand to be a little larger, I don't see the problem with the sprite. It's well done, and it suits what Arch envisioned for the character (which is really what matters, not that it looks like "Marth" because this project isn't be written by IS, it's being written by Arch, so if it matches how Arch sees Marth then it's all good). So all I can really say is for the better spriters to step up if they don't like it, and try submitting a better Marth. people prolly gonna jump on me but w/e~ I actually completely agree. she already said she doesn't plan to change it, so I don't know where you're going with this HOLY SHIT! I accidentally got someone on the internet's gender wrong because I've never had any interaction with her before! (Although, I do apologize, jealousy.) I must be a fucking terrible person! And apparently, she is willing to change it. Technical issues; not stylistic ones, my friend. o 3o~ I can, however, make the eyes larger, if y'all think they're too proportionally small. I know . Just wanted to be a bit of a dick in my first post, then offer my genuine criticism, which as always, is entirely up to the artist to take or ignore. As for the "technical issues," I think you can see where my conversation with Kitty is going. Anyway, I'd say definitely make the eyes a little larger. Like Seph said, that's probably what's making him look douchey. Right now, it looks like he's squinting in a condescending way, if that makes sense. Edited November 21, 2012 by bottlegnomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) I know . Just wanted to be a bit of a dick in my first post, then offer my genuine criticism, which as always, is entirely up to the artist to take or ignore. As for the "technical issues," I think you can see where my conversation with Kitty is going. I fail to understand the logic behind that. It's almost kind of insulting you think it's entirely all right for you to blithely joke that you "wanted to be a dick, then offer criticism." If anyone is being a douche in this topic, you certainly qualify, first and foremost. I haven't the time of day to waste on people who haven't anything better to do that suggest inane "edits." I don't at all appreciate your supposed sense of humor. I'm a reasonable person, and I'm more than willing to edit things given there is adequate reasoning behind it. If you want me to change something, tell me upfront and give me a good reason why. Anyway, I'd say definitely make the eyes a little larger. Like Seph said, that's probably what's making him look douchey. Right now, it looks like he's squinting in a condescending way, if that makes sense. Is he kawaii enough yet? Edited November 21, 2012 by · j e a l o u s y · Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Is he kawaii enough yet? no i think fits the general perspective of marf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) ^ I think he needs more sparkles. Edited November 21, 2012 by · j e a l o u s y · Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 i think the style of the sprite is fine, it's just that his eyes are so slanted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 The way I see it is that the entire head is on a tilt so idk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 do most people hold their head at an angle like that marth might have neck problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peachar Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 do most people hold their head at an angle like that marth might have neck problems -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Honestly, it is what she was going for. She wanted a more masculine Marth, she produced a more masculine Marth. She never did say that he wasn't masculine (though, in her defense also, Marth is pretty girly/bishie in ALL, even the new remakes, versions). It really is a creative liberty interpretation. If you feel like it isn't Marth enough, make your own interpretation and pitch it to Arch. Haters gonna hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Marth is a teenager, canonically speaking. That mug looks like Marth the Manly Man, not Marth the Teen Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Marth is a teenager, canonically speaking. That mug looks like Marth the Manly Man, not Marth the Teen Prince. Eh, Sety in FE5 is the same way. I wouldn't say it's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eCut Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Honestly, it is what she was going for. She wanted a more masculine Marth, she produced a more masculine Marth. She never did say that he wasn't masculine (though, in her defense also, Marth is pretty girly/bishie in ALL, even the new remakes, versions). It really is a creative liberty interpretation. If you feel like it isn't Marth enough, make your own interpretation and pitch it to Arch. Haters gonna hate. No one is hating on her, dear. :p Edited November 21, 2012 by eCut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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