Schoolteacher Mafia

[Prims]

Actually, I'll humor Manixnori and give Mancer another read-through tomorrow to see if I like that better. Don't know if I'll finish it in time to do anything productive, though. I would still rather not lynch NNR.

[Grace]

shrug okay Prims, whatever you say.

although a question: explain exactly how I'm buddying you. I'm curious. You can't just make a claim like that and not back it up.

[Grace]

ALSO SOMETHING I FORGOT TO CLARIFY EARLIER when I subbed in (and my predecessors didn't say anything about)

I cannot claim my role otherwise I get the axe (ie; modkill).

[Baldrick]

Scorri: Prims' read is a reference to this

On the fence as to whether to trust PB or not. If my hunch is right, it wouldn't be the first lie he's told, and it's a good role to claim (claiming to be a cop or a doctor would be like sticking a "Kill me" sign to your back, regardless of whether or not it's true) but it's quite risky to lie like that, and if I stick to my guns and he turns out to be telling the truth, I'll be in serious trouble. I guess I'll retreat for now. It'll be interesting to see how he intends to prove his role.

I don't know whether it's necessary, since I seem to have to voted yet (not sure if eclipse just missed me or she's hinting to me to follow rule 6) but just to be sure: ##Unvote

[Kaoz]

Prims, did you answer Elieson's question?

Also a general heads up that I'm still alive.

[Grace]

Baldrick, here's why Paper can prove his role:

Friendly Townie makes it so that their target gets confirmation of their role/alignment (usually town) after the night is over. Paper can target someone and that person will be able to confirm Paper the following day.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have more reading to do.

[Baldrick]

Manix: I suppose you can't go into details why you'd be modkilled, but do you mean claiming your true role, or claiming at all?

[Baldrick]

But what's to stop the supposed target from lying? Does eclipse announce that an FT has acted?

[Bluedoom]

I'd like to know how my case was shit because a) Its ok to gun for a lynch even if it ends day phase early? and b) That vote was lazy and you know it.

##Unvote

##Vote: Nekorex

I see my voice wasn't strong enough and as for the available wagons Nekorex seems like a better option (looks scummier than say, Manix and I don't understand why Paperblade has a wagon on him. He posts one-liners and short posts even as town so regarding contribution well tl;dr). Seems like a nice person to play cards with. :3

[Grace]

Manix: I suppose you can't go into details why you'd be modkilled, but do you mean claiming your true role, or claiming at all?

Can't claim my role, unsure about character name.

I'd like to know how my case was shit because a) Its ok to gun for a lynch even if it ends day phase early? and b) That vote was lazy and you know it.

Way to read Marth. I explained why I thought it was bad, and so did Prims a page or two back (40 ppp so ymmv)

[MancerNecro]

Okay, I'm back home, reading thread in more detail now (I skimmed the thread while at work).

Expect a post within one hour (latest by one hour forty five minutes) after I have read the thread (I'm also reading from Page 1 again).

[MancerNecro]

Still doesn't redeem the fact that Paperblade's content is awful. My posts have been pretty short as well, but at least I've been on the ball about having my vote on someone I can justifiably keep a good case on.

Aside from the last exchange with scorri, but in hindsight I probably should have taken that over PM. Also, that wasn't game related anyway, so I don't see why people should include it in their reads on me.

There were 3-4 votes on Lucina before Rocker even posted, and I voiced concern over that interaction before Prims/CSDJ added another to that count. I find it hard to it could be possible that the rest of the wagon added it to their reasoning before I did.

I realize my post was a bit scathing, but I think the reasoning for the votes on me are pretty awful.

I want to say that I did not vote you for lack of content.

Secondly, I think that NekoRex is looking pretty bad at this moment. She has used quite a lot of fluff, and in her latest posts, she decided to defend herself more than to scum hunt. While she has posted a lot of content, she has contributed very little interns of reads and such, finding Scorri scummy for a misinterpreted post then starting an argument with Scorri over a subjective issue that served to not help with scum hunting.

Also, she very quickly jumps on the Lucina wagon as it got bigger using the same reasons as almost everyone else.

While Shinori looks bad at this moment still, I think NekoRex just rose above Shinori in my list of scum reads.

##Unvote

##Vote: NekoRex

Noting that "interns" should be "in terms" as well.

I voted you because even though you have a lot of content, you have not really contributed. This is another example of you having misinterpreted a post again.

I'm also noting that Scorri has so far only made one or two content posts with actual scum reads, with the rest of her posts actually just exchanges between NekoRex and herself. She has as such, not been very noticeable throughout the course of this mafia game. Might I call this out as active lurking?

Noting that Shinori has basically vote-parked on me for pretty much 50% of the first Day phase, only moving his vote to Paperblade for quite a weak reason in my opinion. That vote was also in regards to Paperblade's attack on Shinori, which is another OMGUS that Shinori has attempted in the game thus far.

I dislike how Paperblade has voteparked on Shinori, but I don't mind it because he provides a good solid reason for placing his vote on Shinori which no one has managed to dispute. He spends a little too much time defending himself from attacks by BBM though.

I don't actually like how BBM is attacking Paperblade. Sure, he dislikes some stuffs that others have said, but most of his attacks are directed towards Paperblade. His earlier attacks against SB were also quite focused. After his initial scum reads on a few players, he has designated his remaining time into defending himself from and attacking Paperblade, which is not really helping town's discussion a whole lot, stagnating it a little.

I like how Minor Baldo's content has been quite straight to the point. He has however, failed to comment on some of the more major discussions in the thread thus far, but I'll actually blame that on his late entry into the game. I would like to hear more from him about what he thinks about the major exchanges in the thread.

I dislike Manix's post a lot. He basically feels like he is grasping in a lot of his arguments. The points against me have already been answered if he bothered to read the thread in greater detail to catch up. Most of what he has posted has already been addressed by Boron and I. That jibe at my tone is really uncalled for. I am trying to improve and learn here, so jabs at my tone is really grasping... I'm also sure that as many of you players played and improved at mafia, the ways that you have posted would have changed slightly as you played. I don't see his case on me at all.

His reasons for finding the others scummy have also been addressed. All Manix is doing in this post is paraphrasing what others have already posted.

Also, Manix, what do you think of the other major interactions, mainly the Shinori, BBM, Paperblade, Scorri and NekoRex one and the other small exchanges between Scorri and NekoRex, BBM and Scorri, BBM and SB. Your posts seem very narrowed and focused on a few individuals in your attacks.

I'd like to point out that Kay's post really only has one sentence of actual content in it. Her other sentences could be active lurking, attempts to lengthen her post without helping town much.

Also, after many rereads, I find these players very unmemorable: Rocker, SB, Kay, and Kaoz. It really took me a few readthroughs to really notice what some of them have posted (Kay, Kaoz and Rocker comes to mind). I only vaguely remember SB's posts because I have responded to them before as well. I am wondering if these really unnoticeable posts could be attempts at active lurking.

[MancerNecro]

Right now, my vote actually can be split up between NekoRex, Shinori and Manix, in that order (from left to right).

I wouldn't mind either of them being lynched (reasons in the above post), so if town might fail to meet an important majority or lynch, I might shift my votes between them to help meet the lynch requirements.

[Grace]

I dislike Manix's post a lot. He basically feels like he is grasping in a lot of his arguments. The points against me have already been answered if he bothered to read the thread in greater detail to catch up. Most of what he has posted has already been addressed by Boron and I.

So sorry for being a sub and not being able to answer immediately when it happened. Also it doesn't change the fact that it's what I think. And I didn't agree with the defense laid out. Don't assume I haven't read, because I have. Nice job jumping to hasty conclusions.

That jibe at my tone is really uncalled for. I am trying to improve and learn here, so jabs at my tone is really grasping...

I have this thing where I read people's posts and I get a voice in my head. I think back to what I've seen you post before and how the voice sounds, and I'm not getting the usual voice. Also, the fact you needed to defend against your post tone isn't great as well.

His reasons for finding the others scummy have also been addressed. All Manix is doing in this post is paraphrasing what others have already posted.

I repeat, I'm a sub. I was not there to address the points in the first place so stop trying to discredit my line of thinking, thanks. Am I not allowed to have similar opinions to other people or is that an obvious sign of scum? If so, then you should be berating pretty much half the Lucinallen wagon because reasonings were similar. Also apply that to like, pretty much every other situation presented in the thread.

To be honest I really dislike this as a reason for finding someone scummy in general because it easily leads into hypocritical situations as such.

Also, Manix, what do you think of the other major interactions, mainly the Shinori, BBM, Paperblade, Scorri and NekoRex one and the other small exchanges between Scorri and NekoRex, BBM and Scorri, BBM and SB. Your posts seem very narrowed and focused on a few individuals in your attacks.

And did I not say I was going to get to some of the other stuff? I'm still working on it now, I'm not a miracle worker that can spit out posts instantaneously. Stay tuned.

[MancerNecro]

So sorry for being a sub and not being able to answer immediately when it happened. Also it doesn't change the fact that it's what I think. And I didn't agree with the defense laid out. Don't assume I haven't read, because I have. Nice job jumping to hasty conclusions.

Then why are you even asking those questions, you should have the answers if you had read. You made no part in chiding the defense, preferring to ask questions that had already been answered, so I should direct you back to read those posts.

I have this thing where I read people's posts and I get a voice in my head. I think back to what I've seen you post before and how the voice sounds, and I'm not getting the usual voice. Also, the fact you needed to defend against your post tone isn't great as well.

So, "I don't like -a part of your argument-" = defending from it. AFAIK, I think chiding at tone of voice is a scum read, because emotion is not a scum tell and posts across the internet have very little tone, if at all. Unless, the words and tone used are very obviously different, which they aren't. This argument of yours screams grasping.

I repeat, I'm a sub. I was not there to address the points in the first place so stop trying to discredit my line of thinking, thanks. Am I not allowed to have similar opinions to other people or is that an obvious sign of scum? If so, then you should be berating pretty much half the Lucinallen wagon because reasonings were similar. Also apply that to like, pretty much every other situation presented in the thread.

To be honest I really dislike this as a reason for finding someone scummy in general because it easily leads into hypocritical situations as such.

And I have attacked at other players for using similar reasoning as well. They did not have such a huge reaction as you, so I think that this actually means something.

And did I not say I was going to get to some of the other stuff? I'm still working on it now, I'm not a miracle worker that can spit out posts instantaneously. Stay tuned.

Yet, in that spoiler tag, most of what I pointed out were not listed. It's also been several hours since that post was made so how would I know that you were still working on it at all?

[MancerNecro]

A little clarification: Chiding at tone of voice is a scum read because it is a really weak reason that can be equated to grasping. It is something like scum hunting based on scum. There is nothing to back it and players who start a wagon this way can easily distance themselves from the player who was lynched.

[Grace]

Then why are you even asking those questions, you should have the answers if you had read. You made no part in chiding the defense, preferring to ask questions that had already been answered, so I should direct you back to read those posts.

And I didn't agree with the defense laid out.

How to miss the exact part of that statement which completely contradicts your follow up question. Who's the one not reading again?

I think chiding at tone of voice is a scum read,

Depends on context and interpretation. People's tone of posts can lead into being able to determine possible intentions behind their posts and shouldn't be completely discounted.

And I have attacked at other players for using similar reasoning as well. They did not have such a huge reaction as you, so I think that this actually means something.

Uh. To be completely honest I think you missed my point. People are going to have similar thoughts, it's part of the game. So why is it scummy to have them? You haven't answered that. How do wagons form? Is everyone on a wagon going to have exactly different reasons for voting that person? I highly doubt it. Chances are lynches are going to have most of the people on the wagon choosing to lynch that person for similar reasons. Context of votes is key.

Yet, in that spoiler tag, most of what I pointed out were not listed. It's also been several hours since that post was made so how would I know that you were still working on it at all?

Whoop de do dah you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Who says I can't address their interactions with other players when I address those topics? (tip: I have been in places in case you didn't notice)

[Grace]

A little clarification: Chiding at tone of voice is a scum read because it is a really weak reason that can be equated to grasping. It is something like scum hunting based on scum. There is nothing to back it and players who start a wagon this way can easily distance themselves from the player who was lynched.

Did I start a wagon this way? No I did not. I'm not stupid enough to start a wagon based on tone of posts alone this late into D1, and in case you haven't noticed I've explained my thoughts about my vote and the post tone point was only one of many.

If we decide to lynch you (hypothetically), I'm going to have to accept what happens after the flip (either town or maf) no matter what happens because I pushed the wagon. The weaker my reasoning, the less favorable it is on me regardless of the flip. People will get reads off me, and if I have to defend myself I will.

[MancerNecro]

Then why are you even asking those questions' date=' you should have the answers if you had read. [b']You made no part in chiding the defense[/b], preferring to ask questions that had already been answered, so I should direct you back to read those posts.

You mentioned you disliked my defense, right, and you did not make any part in chiding it.

Whoop de do dah you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Who says I can't address their interactions with other players when I address those topics? (tip: I have been in places in case you didn't notice)

If you did not notice' date=' [i']you[/i] are the one making a mountain out of a molehill.

To be honest, I don't even need to defend myself against your weak cases anymore because you have proven to not be able to come up with solid enough a reason to vote me.

Also, my comments of you were only part (read, less than half) of my earlier post, and you chose only to narrow down to parts of my post that mentioned or attacked you. I call out oversensitiveness and scumness for this.

What did you think of the rest of my post, Manix?

Swap Manix and Shinori's places on my scum list. NekoRex remains as my top read until she responds. I'll change my read on her according to what her response is.

[Grace]

I'm having to restrain myself from lashing out because of the wave of stubbornness that just came through.

To be honest, I don't even need to defend myself against your weak cases anymore because you have proven to not be able to come up with solid enough a reason to vote me.

Uh dude. You do realize that shutting down discussion is antitown, right? Also that's only your opinion and IS NOT PROVEN stop throwing around words like that it's not making me think any better of you

Also, my comments of you were only part (read, less than half) of my earlier post, and you chose only to narrow down to parts of my post that mentioned or attacked you. I call out oversensitiveness and scumness for this.

That does not mean I shouldn't address them. unless you want me to ignore them and coast all game? sure I can do that (so why the heck did I decide to sub in...)

Because you know, you haven't done that yourself either (picked out parts of posts). Get a perspective check, get off your high horse, stop being a hypocrite, and stop being stubborn.

[Grace]

other things:

I'm now just going to finish the other post I'm working on then I'm going to sleep. I will not respond to anything further along this line of thought because I'm likely to lash out and get overly emotional and I want to avoid that.

Feel free to vote me though, tbh I really don't care

[Grace]

[spoiler=stuff I need to address]Elieson/SB

Shinori general

Other Marth posts

scorri

Bal

and anything else that catches my eye

More content:

Honestly I'm not seeing Eliescum. His posts read favorably to me and generally feel good. Interactions with SB read town because of content.

On to SB.

I feel Mancer and Shinori are in-town fighting

If I think Shinori is town then there's no point in reaction testing him when a. he isn't here, and b. some others haven't got much out to judge them on, so I'd prefer to see something from them rather than Shinori/Mancer in-town fighting again.

Out of 5 posts he's mentioned Shinori/Mancer being intown fighting in two different posts. Note the change from "I feel" to being fairly definitive about it. Something I feel needs noting, but isn't something major yet.

Other than that SB doesn't look that bad but needs to contribute more. What are your opinions on what has happened, SB? (read: Paperwagon/claim, Lucinallen wagon, etc.)

Blitzdoom hydra hasn't really got much more than what I noted earlier, which is kinda concerning. Got some thoughts on something?

For all that Shinori has posted, there's really not that much content in relation to the number of posts. That said, his content is not that bad imo, contrary to what Paper might think (and anyone else).

scorri is kinda iffy. Early play felt kinda coasty, but later play felt slightly townish. Looking at interactions with Neko, she looks fairly good in her defense and her attacking on him. Interactions with Elie read kinda neutral townish, for pushing a reasonable argument against him.

Bal, I have some questions for you (to get you going in actually contributing, which you need to do):

Opinions on Paperblade/Shinori struggle?

Opinions on Neko/scorri struggle?

Opinions on Elie/SB? struggle?

---

Actually something else I want to note:

First off, I'd like to say that I think the wagon on Lucina/Excellen is not really that good because it seems too rushed and everyone is just looking for a scapegoat that they can push all of the blame and stuff on. I have no idea how to say this without appearing to defend them though.

>my wagon (at least my predecessors) is bad

>doesn't want to be seen defending them (ie you thought they were possible town)

>suddenly my playerslot is your secondmost scum read because I started pushing on you

?????????????????????????????????????

this actually makes no sense and actually doesn't help your case

what exactly changed your mind? you never explained this and it's an inconsistency as to how you jumped like you did

[MancerNecro]

Uh dude. You do realize that shutting down discussion is antitown, right? Also that's only your opinion and IS NOT PROVEN stop throwing around words like that it's not making me think any better of you

Uh dude. Did I shut down any discussions? Your cases are weak and not worth arguing. Stop grasping at everything I am posting and trying to tunnel on me.

That does not mean I shouldn't address them. unless you want me to ignore them and coast all game? sure I can do that (so why the heck did I decide to sub in...)

Neither does it mean you address only them. Address the other parts of my post too, will you?

Because you know, you haven't done that yourself either (picked out parts of posts). Get a perspective check, get off your high horse, stop being a hypocrite, and stop being stubborn.

Who's being a hypocrite, Manix? Stop being stubborn yourself.

Instead of continuing to defend yourself tunnel me, actually address the other parts of my post that corresponds with the other interactions in the thread.

By only choosing to respond to parts of my post that refers to you, you have stifled the discussion a lot. Notice how the last 5-6 posts are just exchanges between us because you chose only to rebut at me in your posts and not do any scum reading?

other things:

I'm now just going to finish the other post I'm working on then I'm going to sleep. I will not respond to anything further along this line of thought because I'm likely to lash out and get overly emotional and I want to avoid that.

Feel free to vote me though, tbh I really don't care

Typical self-victimising to gain sympathy.

In case you did not notice, my main point against you was your weak reasonings against several players as well as the lack of scope of your reads on the players in this thread.

If you do indeed realise this (proving that you might be able to read), then you would realise that making that post that you promised several (about 4-5) hours ago your reads would be enough to reduce my suspicions of you already. You deciding to stagnate town's discussion this way only increases my scum read on you.

Since I just saw Manix's latest post now, I'll respond to it in the same post.

This is the only part I feel I need to address:

>my wagon (at least my predecessors) is bad

>doesn't want to be seen defending them (ie you thought they were possible town)

>suddenly my playerslot is your secondmost scum read because I started pushing on you

?????????????????????????????????????

this actually makes no sense and actually doesn't help your case

what exactly changed your mind? you never explained this and it's an inconsistency as to how you jumped like you did

Isn't it obvious that your recent reactions made me change my mind?

My reason for not liking the Lucina/Excellen (your) wagon was also there: It was too rushed, I need more interactions before I can be more definitive about it.

My interactions with you made me feel more definite about the case at hand.

Otherwise, I like the fact that you have decided to post more reads on other players. Yet, I feel that you have still ignored some of the more major posts and players in the thread, or I feel that your points are not as clear as they could be.

I'm also noting that Lucina/Excellen (since I only realised barely half an hour ago that Manix subbed in for Lucina/Excellen, I kinda forgot due to work =.=) has said that heavy RPing was definitely required to meet their PR. Yet, Manix has not RPed even once at all (and I presume he will still be able to meet their PR), so I propose that Lucina was using her PR as an excuse to RP and be horribly vague and coasty.

Refer to this post for the rest of my reads, since I realise I have been attacking Manix too much in the past 5-6 posts cause of his defensive posts.

[MancerNecro]

5-6 posts should really be doubled or something since it's last 5-6 of my own posts.

[NekoRex]

This game is pretty busy while I'm asleep!

I've noticed people seem pretty divided on what to think about me. I still think a number of votes on my wagon have pretty poor reasoning. Especially the accusations I'm coasting, because there are people far worse then me when it comes to that.

Why are people voting me for sarcasm too? I had one sentence with a sarcastic remark (at the person I've had my vote on, no less) and it was pretty obvious sarcasm. People need to read into the fact that this is a game, and being critical of someone else isn't a personal attack.

Lastly, why all the hate on MY vote for Paperblade when, not only was it the first one on him, but also the fact that 5 other people voted him after I did? Can't see how my vote could be lazy in that situation.

I think you guys should listen to the one player here who knows my gameplay best.

I have a bunch more to post, but these posts are a bigger meal then the Thanksgiving dinner I had last night and it's hard to crawl through them.