[NOC] [Anon] [Open Set-Up] Strip Mafia - lol

[Estelle]

Did Scumhunter votepark? Because I actually don't remember, and Dwarf is scummier because of the self-meta. Scumhunter actually hasn't been all that memorable to me, but he must have been the other person I forgot to address yesterday.

[Estelle]

Magus is jumping on every little thing, it seems. I'm trying to decide if he's scum grasping until enough people consider something lynchworthy, or just an aggressive scumhunter.

So what have you decided, then? You never provided an answer to this, and I hate this vacillating shit.

Interesting you comment on my drop of activity when there's been other users who have done the same (Scumhunter, for example); seems a little hypocritical after what you said regarding my vote on Dwarf.

[Estelle]

Ugh, I have a midterm today and will be scarce for probably the next eight hours or so.

[Ochako Uraraka]

Scumhunter X vote parked on me right after our exchange, Parseltongue.

I don't like how one comment from me can cause Viking to place a vote down and I acknowledge that there wasn't much basis or reasoning behind that vote especially when at least half of the player base in this game has been less active than you have.

Also, here's a contradiction:

Your vote is the clearest, most objective way to tell your opinions. You can't go back and twist things so you weren't suspicious of someone you voted for, and it contributes to scumhunting by getting reactions. You're able to unvote whenever, it's not like it has to be your final vote, and we're not that close to a hammer. There's insufficient justification for this "too early to vote", IMO.

My opinion of Bogeto is fairly weak so I want to see what he does in the future, if anything.

You sound like you greatly suspect or think that Bogeto Bogeto might be scum. That post was quite a strong reaction. How is it now fairly weak? Are you trying to dumb down this line of argument to help strengthen your case on Parseltongue?

What do you guys think about that?

[Estelle]

I realize my play/post quality hasn't been optimal the past few pages but I intend on rectifying that after today. I might switch my vote depending on what I see after I do a complete re-read and I'm able to sound more coherent

But until then, the last thing I can add is that a skim of Viking's latest posts seems like he's inconsistent with his opinions (e.g. his comment on Illusio) so I wouldn't mind some more attention here in the future

[Rain Nijika]

IThe rest of that Grape Soda post is not as bad as the stuff before it, so I guess there's not as much to explain as I thought I had to explain. It seemed more forced the first time I read through it, but I guess what truly bothered me was the first half before the vote was made. I read through the last page hastily and I haven't read all of the page and a half that I missed yet because I'm in a rush, so I can't address much else yet. Would like to say I'm proud of Jay Gatsby for having an actually sound case on me for once (too bad I'm town though).

not sure if the bolded part means that you think all the other cases against you are shit and mine is the only good one, or that you think this is the first good case I'VE ever had. if it's the latter this is the second time you've used meta really quickly and i don't think you even know who i am, so??? also either way you're doing the same thing i said was scummy in urist. if you think a case against you is decent then respond to it. you barely responded to anything i had to say.in fact if what you meant by that bolded bit was my first explanation then i have to question your reasoning in choosing to reply more to the cases you think are shit than the cases you think are good. i'll accept that you're rushed for time, but i'd better get a proper defence from you when you get back.

illusio is jumping a lot but he reads more paranoid and overeager townie than grasping scum. plus a lot of what he's said is okay and i think some people (particularly urist) seem to be attacking how he's presenting his points and the fact that he seems to be jumping about rather than the points themselves. read this post for example.

also despite the fact that parseltongue finds illusio scummy a good chunk of his reasoning seems to be borrowed from him. eg i think both his case against urist and that last poke against viking are basically the same as what illusio said first.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Did Scumhunter votepark? Because I actually don't remember, and Dwarf is scummier because of the self-meta. Scumhunter actually hasn't been all that memorable to me, but he must have been the other person I forgot to address yesterday.

Indeed. I asked you right after Dwarf voted you and you called him for it. I didn't remind you about that because I was waiting for an answer before and I was too tired and lazy yesterday to keep switching users while my internet was slow as a turtle carrying another turtle on the back.

This is pretty serious. I'd call it an OMGUS because you chose him over me just because I voted Illusio, not you. Acting over-agressively and over-defensively at the same time is a scumtell. I think that may be the way you play, but still, I'm not relying on meta since I'm not sure about who you are.

I don't think Illusio is scum anymore. He's slipping a lot, but I'm more inclined onto believing he's a town newbie trying to be helpful than scum planning something. Dwarf also bothers me because he picks on Illusio's slips more than anyone and use them to justify his reasoning for finding him scummy, something a cunning scum could do to take opportunity on a town newbie trying to be helpful but slipping a lot. His excuses also seem to come from a "scumhunting textbook", as Jatsby said before.

Unvote

##Vote: Urist McDwarf

I still have to develop my scumread on him further, but that comes after I'm back and not as busy as I am now.

[Estelle]

I still don't have a lot of time so I can't go over everything yet but I do have time to better explain a few things and also address this:

not sure if the bolded part means that you think all the other cases against you are shit and mine is the only good one, or that you think this is the first good case I'VE ever had. if it's the latter this is the second time you've used meta really quickly and i don't think you even know who i am, so???

It wasn't meta, I meant that I feel your case is the best case I've seen on me all game because it isn't contradictory and you actually have your vote where your main suspicion is, which some people [bogeto] seem to not know how to do??

also either way you're doing the same thing i said was scummy in urist. if you think a case against you is decent then respond to it. you barely responded to anything i had to say.

Dude I had 20 minutes to post before I had to go to my class and I even said I would respond in full when I got back. If you realize that I'm pressed for time, don't provoke me unless I come back and still continue to do what you accused me of doing before--if I do that, you have a right to press me about it, but I think the most aggravating thing is having to leave in the middle of forming opinions and people commenting on the abruptness of it.

Secondly, there are other points made on me that I haven't addressed along with yours and I still think yours are the only well-constructed out there, so no, I haven't only responded to the 'bad ones,' it was just sort of poor timing for me because I made the mistake of pulling an all-nighter so I've been a little defensive and aggravated.

For the record I feel that Illusio has been piggybacking off of people more than you give him credit for; again I don't have time to pull out specific examples but off of the top of my head I think that his Bogeto vote felt a lot like that,and it was a bit why I decided to place my vote back there.

(Yeah, I think Bogeto's "I still refuse to vote the person I claim to find scummy" is annoying and suspicious, especially after this gem:

No problem Parsel. I guess I'm helping you out eh?

after his shifty claim, and then I feel that he and Illusio piggybacked their suspicions on me off of each other which also felt weird to me.)

As for 'borrowing from Illusio's reasoning,' I feel like he's been borrowing more often from me and from other people than anything else. I didn't mean to sound like I was echoing off of him in regards to Viking; I actually didn't notice his post before mine, then realized only after the fact before I was on my way out of the door. I hoped it wouldn't be too much of a problem since my post was kind of disjointed from his and even if it does sound similar to his it doesn't change that it's still my opinion. I'm still for an Illusio lynch today (it feels like after he unvoted me he's been simultaneously agreeing with me while trying to distance himself at the same time with things such as 'you've been making active lurking posts' which just don't really agree with me).

And uh I just got a surprise email, I have to go to a mandatory meeting now so the rest of this is going to have to wait.

[Kamina]

I don't like how one comment from me can cause Viking to place a vote down and I acknowledge that there wasn't much basis or reasoning behind that vote especially when at least half of the player base in this game has been less active than you have.

Also, here's a contradiction:

You sound like you greatly suspect or think that Bogeto Bogeto might be scum. That post was quite a strong reaction. How is it now fairly weak? Are you trying to dumb down this line of argument to help strengthen your case on Parseltongue?

What do you guys think about that?

I was annoyed about losing the post I had written, and didn't feel like rewriting it at the time. I have a basis for my votes, and I thought voting had a higher priority than justifying said vote. Also, I wasn't voting because of you, I was voting because voting is useful.

No, I think he did something scummy. Multiple times, but I also have a bit of a town vibe from his posts, and he hasn't done that much for me to base my opinion on. So, I wanna see more from him.

Why do you care what they think?

Did Scumhunter votepark? Because I actually don't remember, and Dwarf is scummier because of the self-meta. Scumhunter actually hasn't been all that memorable to me, but he must have been the other person I forgot to address yesterday.

Here.

Unvote.

##Vote: Illusio Mage

Stationary vote until I see a better target. My case agaisnt him is pretty weak and focuses a lot on my POV, which isn't a solid thing anyway. But for now, he's my best target.

Posts with questions that don't have a definitive answer, and that sort of read dramatically, are scummy to me because they feel too artificial.

Like this?

It wasn't meta, I meant that I feel your case is the best case I've seen on me all game because it isn't contradictory and you actually have your vote where your main suspicion is, which some people [bogeto] seem to not know how to do??

[Aizen]

To be honest, my only comments regarding "buddying" up to Grape Soda was one where I said Parseltongue might want to foil his hypothetical scum buddy for town credit. And how is that even buddying with anyone at all?

Actually, Stormaggedon, do you think that Grape Soda may have answered that question for Dwarf because they are buddies and he feels threatened by that attack on Dwarf?

Holy cow do you even read your own posts? You're accusing me of slip ups here when you can't even defend yourself

And holy balls, you are STILL sidestepping any sort of accusation I throw at you.

##Kill It With Fire: IllusioMagis

[Estelle]

No, Viking, that's not what I meant, and double-question marks are sarcastic.

I mean questions that sound needlessly dramatic; mine was a sarcastic statement directed mostly at Bogeto and Magus, and you too because your list of reasons seemed to imply you were much more suspicious of Illusio than you are of me but you have your vote on me anyway. It's these little inconsistencies that are really getting on my nerves.

[No Elimination]

I do not have a lot of time right now and there has been a lot of stuff posted in this thread. For right now I an content to leave my vote where it is if for no other reason than the previous post by Dwarf. That seems to me like an extreme overreaction to someone forgetting one tiny post of theirs especially when IM has made so many posts. Thoughts beside that are that PT is looking a little better to me but I am not completely sure why, Viking seems fine to me for now, and that overall I need to reread and take some notes. I will hopefully be able to give a better post in 8 hours or so.

[Estelle]

No, I think he did something scummy. Multiple times, but I also have a bit of a town vibe from his posts, and he hasn't done that much for me to base my opinion on. So, I wanna see more from him.

Things like this are what bother me about you; your posts were better before but they've devolved into vague statements and side comments.

[Estelle]

Apologies to Jay; I haven't addressed your entire case against me yet but I have to go again. This is my last class for today, so I will be sure to complete everything I was saying once I'm done.

[Aizen]

To be honest, I'm only pointing out slip ups for the sake of defending Magus's constant attacks on me. Why is everyone ignoring the REAL point I have here? Magus has not responded to a single thing I have said about him, instead opting to attack me further with each new post he makes. His only defense so far is the incredibly vauge and nonspecific claim that "other people have defended his posts for him". He's barely so much as acknowledged that I have been trying to push a lynch for him.

Magus is scum who can't defend himself because he's scummy, and the only way he can defend himself is to try and make me look worse then him. Obviously the town is naive enough to fall for this, because everyone here is ignoring my case on him and voting me.

[Estelle]

Don't think I don't believe you; I still hold my point that Illusio flipped a lot of my arguments towards him back to me, especially when he accused me of 'reacting badly' to his vote on him when his vote on me was actually HIS reaction to my vote on him. It struck me as nervous scum, and I mentioned that in my early-day quarrel with him, but no one really paid attention to that.

[Prims]

>V-V-Votecount!

(3) IllusioMagus - Parseltongue, Urist McDwarf, Gonzou Azai

(3) Urist McDwarf - Stormageddon, IllusioMagus, Scumhunter X

(2) Bogeto Bogeto - Grape Soda, Red Mage

(2) Parseltongue - Jay Gatsby, Viking

Not Voting (2): Bogeto Bogeto, Ikakas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 29.5 hours left in the day.

[Aizen]

I also think that Scumhunter and Storm are very clearly buddying Magus by defending him and voting me.

Because this is actually how buddying works, now "oh shit player X mentioned player Y they must be scumbuddies"

[No Elimination]

I would like to point out that I was the first person to vote you and that your interaction with him was only a continuing reason to vote you.

[Aizen]

Your original reasons for voting me are both bad and unfounded at this stage in the game.

Your current reason for voting me completely ignores my casework on convicting IllusioMagus as scum.

[Estelle]

Dude people are allowed to think you're scum even if you ARE scumhunting. I don't like the implications in your post there because i comes off as "I have a valid case on Illusio, that should be enough to make you think I'm town!" It's a bad defense and fyi I am still suspicious of you from the start of the day.

[Estelle]

##Vote: Parseltongue

early interactions with illusio were him being super defensive-aggressive for shitty reasons,

I don't like RVS and if someone reacts in a way that interests me, I'm going to vote them. It at least helped us get out of RVS, so I'm not sorry for what I did. I wasn't being that defensive either; if anything I think he overreacted to my RVS vote and the comment against Grape.

and then he has a bunch of shitty posts since then prodding at illusio and saying that he still doesn't like illusio's posts, but not giving any reasons for why that's so.

Except that I have and this is kind of an empty statement without hard support.

plus the last prod was just false because iirc bogeto is the only wagon illusio has jumped on (he was the first serious vote for both parseltongue and urist).

Ah, see, this is where I was mistaken--I thought he was the second vote for Dwarf, not the first. My bad.

and then the way he voted for bogeto turned me off, like "oh i'm a second away from voting for him" and then actually voting for him. idk that's a pet peeve of mine.

Your attack with self-meta will be responded to with self-meta: it's a bad habit of mine (this is a dumb defense though) and if you want me to justify it, it took me a second read of Bogeto's post to be completely convinced that I wanted to vote for him (I still think he's weird but he's not on my high priority list anymore).

his unvote of bogeto was super shit too, because he gave no reason at all for it,

except that I did (personally I'm starting to feel it's a dead-end wagon and we'll get more out of an Illusio or even a Drawf lynch than a Bogeto lynch)

and then he didn't give a reason for his switch back to illusio either.

except that I did literally just now and in the string of posts before and in-between my classes today. Would you like me to quote them?

plus right after he voted for bogeto initially he was like "grape soda's argument against bogeto is valid" and now he's flipped and saying he's feeling uncomfortable about it.

Honestly, the real thing that bugged me about the post was the dramatic tone in the second half (which I also have already explained thoroughly, would you like me to quote that again too for reference?)

tl dr; parsel keeps flip flopping about and changing opinions and reads for shit reasons or no reasons at all

This is the only thing about your argument that I truly dislike. If you're going to make this kind of generalization, I want you to cite where I've been flip-fopping because I'm pretty sure I haven't been flip-flopping as badly as Illusio has been. I do not like generalizations without support (I'm aware I made a couple of those; I've been meaning to fix them)

[Estelle]

Stating something else again for clarification: The one thing that irks me about Bogeto isn't so much the shifty roleclaim (although I'm not fond of the way he claimed after three votes on him and he didn't do it in a direct manner), but that he still isn't voting for anyone. It makes it seem more and more like his first post actually wasn't a reaction test, because if it were he would at least be voting for me (for my reaction towards his post) or for Illusio or something but he's still sitting there with no vote.

[Estelle]

WOW I JUST NOTICED THE TYPO

first half of grape's post, not second half***

i'm so sorry i still haven't slept yet. i am dum

[Aizen]

Dude people are allowed to think you're scum even if you ARE scumhunting. I don't like the implications in your post there because i comes off as "I have a valid case on Illusio, that should be enough to make you think I'm town!" It's a bad defense and fyi I am still suspicious of you from the start of the day.

While normally I would agree with this, it is wrong because he is attacking me over a single part of my scumhunting, in which I defend myself by turning around his accusations of "scumslipping" while ignoring the part where I mention Magus is avoiding my questions and accusations of scumtells.