Pokemon Adventures R/B/G/Y Mafia

[MancerNecro]

Fact remains that your vote on Shinori was not taken off right after he explained himself. You waited till quite a while later before deciding to take it off and vote Boron (I might have to check on your posts again to confirm this).

Also, are there any reasons why you would choose Boron over Kay and scorri (other players in the same inactive category as Boron)? I do believe that you might have also said at some point that you disliked scorri (have to check on this as well). That's why I find that switch to Boron one without a strong reason and is suspicious.

[MancerNecro]

Fact remains that your vote on Shinori was not taken off right after he explained himself. You waited till quite a while later before deciding to take it off and vote Boron (I might have to check on your posts again to confirm this).

Also, are there any reasons why you would choose Boron over Kay and scorri (other players in the same inactive category as Boron)? I do believe that you might have also said at some point that you disliked scorri (have to check on this as well). That's why I find that switch to Boron one without a strong reason and is suspicious.

Fixed: Fail formatting

[Jaybee]

Fact remains that your vote on Shinori was not taken off right after he explained himself. You waited till quite a while later before deciding to take it off and vote Boron (I might have to check on your posts again to confirm this).

Also, are there any reasons why you would choose Boron over Kay and scorri (other players in the same inactive category as Boron)? I do believe that you might have also said at some point that you disliked scorri (have to check on this as well). That's why I find that switch to Boron one without a strong reason and is suspicious.

1. Valid point. Alright.

2. Because 33% chance.

[Sunwoo]

Sorry about the inactivity. I've either been not in the house or too tired to type up a comprehensive post. But I had a good night's sleep so I'm ready to say stuff today.

I don't think either NekoRex or Helios looks bad right now, although I have to disagree with NekoRex saying that the Wren wagon looks bad. I mean, I don't want to lynch Wren without hearing him say more, but I've seen him reading the thread and he disappears without a post, which is pretty irritating, and I still think that his one post on Elieson case wasn't very strong.

Not too fond of Elieson at the moment either. I think he came out looking worse in the argument between him and Paperblade, and I don't think that his latest content made him look any better. I especially don't like that he's trying to judge whether Paper or JB are scum solely on Paper calling out JB wagon, when neither players have flipped. Would not be opposed to lynching him.

As for Baldrick ... he's actually said and done less than I had originally thought. I didn't even realize he had vote-parked on Mancer the entire time although he was around and had commented on stuff going on until Paperblade had pointed it out. Also, his reads sound noncommittal and he hasn't really scumhunted for all he's posted.

Kay, who do you think is scum? I see you asking questions, but do you have actual thoughts on other players right now? There should be enough stuff for you to form an opinion on right now.

##Unvote

##Vote: Baldrick

You've been around during most of the action, so why does it sound like you haven't formed any strong opinions on anyone yet? It feels like you're playing to both sides of the argument and being purposely vague so you can get away with whatever the results are.

[Sunwoo]

If WREN doesn't respond before I wake up I am going to officially support his wagon in earnest. He's lurked the thread far too much to continue to give me the benefit of the doubt.

Erp, I somehow missed this post, whoops. My comment on disagreeing with NekoRex about Wren wagon can be mostly disregarded then.

[NekoRex]

##Unvote

##Vote: WREN

Right, you're still lurking, and there's still no new post. I'm getting tired of seeing you in the "Users Reading This Topic" list.

[Prims]

>V-V-Votecount!

(4) MancerNecro - Baldrick, Shinori, Strawman, scorri

(3) WREN - Helios, Paperblade, NekoRex

(3) Baldrick - Elieson, j00, Boron

(1) Boron - JBCWK

(1) Elieson - WREN

(1) JBCWK - MancerNecro

(1) Strawman - Kay

Not Voting (0): None!

With 14 alive, it takes 5 to deadline lynch and 8 to hammer. You have about 5 hours and 18 minutes left in the day.

[Paperblade]

I'm not liking this Mancer lynch. Nothing he's really sad has stood out to me as scummy.

[Sunwoo]

If I'm remembering correctly, I think only scorri has a valid reason for voting him. Baldrick's vote is from RVS that he never moved, and both Shinori and Strawman voted him and never bothered moving their votes off him.

Either way, I don't want Mancer lynched over Elieson, Baldrick, or Wren.

[scorri]

Rereading right now, will hopefully get a post up soon, but from skimming the thread earlier, Mancer was looking better. I'll look into Wren and Baldrick as well as Elie.

[Paperblade]

If I'm remembering correctly, I think only scorri has a valid reason for voting him. Baldrick's vote is from RVS that he never moved, and both Shinori and Strawman voted him and never bothered moving their votes off him.

Either way, I don't want Mancer lynched over Elieson, Baldrick, or Wren.

Baldrick justified it as a real vote later

[Sunwoo]

Mancer seriously piqued my interest before I'd decided on a serious vote, and hasn't been much better since. At this stage, I don't see the point of unvoting and revoting simply so that I haven't been on him since RVS.

The first thing he did was jump on the sudden wagon without a hint of irony. He was clear afterwards that his vote was a joke, but he was seriously considering the possibility of more votes on JB. Only scum would think pushing a lynch based on nothing close to hammer is a good idea, so I'm not sure why he objects to being suspicious of the later voters.

I think it was just an excuse to push on Elieson. The quote he used as a basis of his case is out of context; he is trying to make it look like Elieson was deflecting suspicion when he was countering the point that we'd get no scumreads if JB reached hammer from joke votes.

His defense of his vote, to readily admit it's suspicious, is strange. Given he's so worried about Elieson putting suspicion onto him, I believe it's a "hidden in plain sight" strategy. One of the few meta bits I'm confident on is that he tends to throw caution to the wind.

Neko's case on Elieson seems to be ignoring the latest post from him. He also missed the more serious reasoning of the Wren wagon. And I don't agree with his assertion motive is not important, I think considering the possible motive behind a post or a vote is useful in determining whether or not it's suspicious.

I saw Wren this morning, so I'm wondering what exactly he's waiting for. His vote on Elieson needs to be explained, and something about the phrase "apply pressure to the wound" concerns me. That's all I have to say that wasn't covered in 146.

Shinori's vote on JB and his overreaction to the votes on him is notable, but without a wagon of any sort or much in the way of corroborating evidence, I'm not interested in pursuing the matter further.

Everyone else is a null read because either they haven't done anything interesting, or what interesting things they have done has been cancelled out by explanations and/or their play.

Somehow I missed this post, ugh.

It doesn't make me any more inclined to take my vote off him though. He seems to be overjustifying his case on Mancer and giving excuses to stay on him. Nor does he take a solid stance on the other people whom he's named in this post. He just comments on their actions without saying what he thinks about them. Baldrick, do you think they are scum or not?

[Shinori]

##Unvote:

Not liking mancer lynch anymore. Thought he was more townie after reading his shatter case.

Need to read some stuff though. Been busy so I haven't ACTUALLY been around.

[Helios]

I'm not going to defend this because it's totally valid reasoning to vote WREN. In fact I probably wouldn't have been bothered personally if that's all you posted and put a vote with it.

I was specifically pointing out the wording which bothered me.

I'm rather unskilled at speculation, so I wouldn't really be able to stand to guess at something like that.

I never said Gamer was town, I just don't think he's a good lynch. Call it gut, I guess? Maybe it's the fact he only has one post and his wagon was really quick to build.

My thoughts and my gut are two separate entities, each based on logic and intuition, respectively. I don't think Paper has done anything bad enough to deserve a vote., but aside from intuition (which can change on a whim), I don't think he's clear from any suspicion. Hence Null.

As a note, from experience knowing him for a fairly long time, I can attest that WREN is a notorious lurker in and out of Mafia. Doesn't have any standing on my read of him, but it probably explains why he's been watching the thread and not posting. It's not exactly helping him to clear any suspicion on him, though.

Your conviction is decreasing, to the point that you're actually voting Wren who you said was a bad lynch. Not sure what to think of this yet.

Fair enough on your Paper read. I just feel that there's enough posts by him to get a better read than that.

I'm not sure I like JB's list post. He pretty much views the entire game bar two people, who finds slightly scummy and a gut town read on Wren for being inactive. On top of that I'm not sure if I like a pressure vote this late into the phase.

Not liking Mancer's speculation either. If Elieson or Helios flips scum, theyr'e buddies. What basis is there behind that? I never defended Elieson, I criticized your and Wren's reasoning for voting him. It felt opportunistic and the reasoning was poor, so I called you both out for it. In your case, I also wanted to garner some reactions out of you to develop a better read on you, as well as further discussion. All in all I consider it a successful attempt at doing so. I think you're making better points on JB though, and I'd prefer that you don't get lynched over some other players at this point.

Would like to hear more from scorri and Shinori when they have time since they haven't said much. Will have to read Baldrick in more depth later when I have some time to see why he has votes on him.

[NekoRex]

Your conviction is decreasing, to the point that you're actually voting Wren who you said was a bad lynch. Not sure what to think of this yet.

I've had faith that we would hear quite a bit more from WREN during the phase, but it appears I was wrong.

The constant lurking is getting on my nerves.

Actually doing some rereading before deadline.

[j00]

@Baldrick

The problem isn't the pressure vote, it's the fact that you asked when you proved a good reason yourself. Most of your posts before I voted you were pretty short, and contained mostly comments and "X needs to explain this" rather than proper reads based on what was already posted. I like listing pros and cons myself, but you didn't say much about either ("That seems scummy but it could be because" etc), leaving the impression that you're waffling.

That said, your later posts have been better with more content and reasoning for your vote, and Wren has lurked long enough.

##Unvote

##Vote: Wren

[Baldrick]

I would like to point out having time to post is not the same as having time to analyse in detail. As I’m sure you’re aware, I take my signups seriously, so I’m not going to let the game go by without me even if I have nothing of value. Last night was the first chance I had to put a detailed post up.

My reads I think are pretty strong for a fairly unremarkable day 1, considering a lot of thought has gone into Elieson, who has turned out to be somewhat of a red herring in my eyes. Incidentally, everyone I talked about in my last post I think is scum, organized roughly from most voteworthy to least voteworthy.

Mancer, I’ll admit I hadn’t paid much attention to the first part of the quote in 192, but I still don’t fully agree that early votes, including yours, are just as suspicious as later votes, and I still don’t agree with what you said about Elieson, at one point he asked Paperblade “Do you think none of the votes on him will be analysed?” or something to that effect, which made me think he’s aware of the consequences of his joke vote and isn’t trying to weasel out of them.

Did I say you thought early votes weren’t suspicious? If so, I am misrepping you, but I don’t think I did.

[NekoRex]

Still don't like Paper enough to give him a town read, but still don't dislike him enough to call him scum.

One thing I noticed is that he tends to make "I don't like X post" comments without elaborating why, which, while at least shows he's reading, isn't doing much for interactions. Gut has possibly changed to a slight scumread?

I think Baldrick is pretty cool and I don't want to see him lynched today. He's been putting a decent amount of effort into scumhunting since the early game ended and his posts are fairly comprehensive. Good effort from him.

For some reason I've managed to completely skip over all of Shatter's posts and I don't know why. Also j00 but he's just not much of a presence.

Read Elie's massive post and still don't like him very much. He's still my secondary at this point.

[BBM]

>V-V-Votecount!

(3) MancerNecro - Baldrick, Strawman, scorri

(4) WREN - Helios, Paperblade, NekoRex, j00

(2) Baldrick - Elieson, Boron

(1) Boron - JBCWK

(1) Elieson - WREN

(1) JBCWK - MancerNecro

(1) Strawman - Kay

Not Voting (1): Shinori

With 14 alive, it takes 5 to deadline lynch and 8 to hammer. You have about 3 hours left in the day. Chop chop.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Thomas Raith

[Shinori]

I really don't know what to think about the wren lynch and I feel like it's most likely going to end bad. I felt mancer had some decent thoughts on Shatter unless I misread or forgot something. And I'd much rather have a lynch on someone that has interactions. This wren lynch gives us hardly any info. Of course he has looked in the thread multiple times and just not said anything. So that could just be classic scum not saying anything.

Don't really think any good lynches are going to be able to come out today other than WREN, which really isn't a good lynch. I really actually think a lynch on Shatter would be more beneficial.

For the sake of a lynch I will lynch Wren though.

[Baldrick]

@Baldrick

The problem isn't the pressure vote, it's the fact that you asked when you proved a good reason yourself.

I feel pressure votes are something you do when you have no scumreads. It's easy to say "X needs to post more" and not need to waste your vote on him, so you should only give him your vote if you have nowhere better to put it.

Most of your posts before I voted you were pretty short, and contained mostly comments and "X needs to explain this" rather than proper reads based on what was already posted.

That's mostly to do with the fact I was never at the computer long enough to do a serious read.

I like listing pros and cons myself, but you didn't say much about either ("That seems scummy but it could be because" etc), leaving the impression that you're waffling.

That's the format I use when I see something that looks bad, but I conclude the town motive behind it is more logical than the scum motive. I guess it's a similar thing to what somebody (Neko, I think?) was saying about intuition vs logic.

[j00]

Wren lynch isn't gonna provide much info, but a JB lynch won't be a lot better. Except for starting a wagon on himself he hasn't done much than provide some short reads and a random vote on Boron. Wren at least compared Elieson and Paper in more detail even if it wasn't very good.

What bothers me about JB isn't so much his reasoning for his vote, it's more that he chose Boron when scorri's easily the most absent one here. It seems more like he's a bit sloppy than he's slipping, though. Currently he's a null read.

@Baldrick

Wren is the one looking the worst, and he was at the time I made my first vote. Should probably not have formulated it as a pressure vote, what I meant is that I'd like to hear more from him before I'm entirely confortable with his lynch, but at that time I found him the scummiest.

[Shinori]

There are more interactions with Shatter and other players though. Wren has seriously just like posted once and left and established votes on him for that one post and then not posting anything at all.

I actually am beginning to think he may just be scum that has just said "Lolnotgonnatalkanymore" just to withhold info from the town.

[Jaybee]

##Unvote

Not sure why people are taking the Boron vote suspiciously just because scorri's also absent - If 3 people are inactive I'm going to vote one of them as a pressure vote, and it also happens that I'm in like 3 different skype group chats with Boron so I know if she's alive or not. Also, 33% chance.

I'm still not comfortable with a Wren lynch, and gut kind of tells me Mancer is town. Maybe I'll get more comfortable with a Wren lynch IF HE POSTS I CAN SEE YOU IN THE USERS READING THE TOPIC

[Jaybee]

Actually, this is pretty interesting.

I actually am beginning to think he may just be scum that has just said "Lolnotgonnatalkanymore" just to withhold info from the town.

Would scum ever give up and get themselves lynched (and this isn't even a bus)? I'd think it more likely that scum would come out and defend themselves if they were in Wren's scenario.