Pokemon Adventures R/B/G/Y Mafia

[WREN]

Shatter, there is a good chance that we don't have the same character claim,(Unless we're doin this whole xfinite Joy cousins BS) and I dropped a subtle hint towards him by saying that I am A night doctor. So unless he was COMPLETELY TERRIBLE he wouldn't have claimed.

I am disappointed in you Shateer, as I said pretty much the exact same things in the post right after the one you quoted.

Here it is

I don't think I could have been more obvious to the odd doc without letting the scum onto the fact that there were two docs. As you said the odd doctor would automatically know who I am by the fact that he's an odd doctor, not nurse joy, and that I said that I am A night doctor.

It almost seems like you're cherry picking/not reading everything before you post. >:T

@Shatter's @WREN

I don't care about him character claiming NOW as he's had two whole days to come up with some character that makes sense with his role, the fact of the matter IS that he didn't character claim with his role yesterday when put on the spot, and that his role doesn't make sense for a town role.

And lets not forget to add that a scumbuddy of his could have silenced him to give him town cred, after his poor day 1 play(As intopicly brought up by Helios)

[Jaybee]

Ooh, you're disappointed in me? Damn, that's nice of you.

also gonna abbreviate to OND, END and FDbecause it's irritating to type the full thing out.

I'm talking about what could have happened on Day 1. Pray tell, how would the OND have known that you were END and not scum pulling out a desperate claim to save yourself from the lynch? Possible scenario: OND claims, you backtrack, get lynched, OND gets killed, both doctors gone. Again, assuming you're telling the truth about your role, didn't you consider this scenario way too goddamn risky? Saying you are a night doctor instead of the night doctor also doesn't mean too much - If I were OND I wouldn't take that as foolproof evidence that you're the END.

Once again, assuming you're END, why not outright say you are END? Mafia is unlikely to claim END because it's a very unorthodox role, and you probably appear more town for it (unless you want to play the WIFOM game).

[Jaybee]

meant to change night doctor into FD (full doc) but you get the general meaning

[Helios]

I am also one to agree with the scumjanitor+townie/thirdparty slayer thing.

But the thing with Baldricks role is that for townies it's unreliable if there are other killers outside of scum while for scum it will always show you who is a threat. Which means it makes no sense for it to only be a two shot and a townie role.

Also no one could counterclaim him, if it's his scum ability.

@ Helios's @WREN

I actually considered that first one but I ended up deciding it was to out there to be worth mentioning, but apparently it's not! And again his ability is unreliable+limited so unless the scum knew he was going to read one of them it would be better to silence someone else.

Try looking at it from a scum POV though. Who is a better silence target than him? The probability of him hitting scum or some other killing role may be low, but it's high enough that you want to make sure he doesn't say anything as much as possible.

Someone just has to counterclaim a kind of cop, not necessarily the "killcop". Usually when there's a scum!cop there's a town!cop as well, so your logic doesn't really work here I'm afraid.

@wren: baldrick is silenced he can't exactly tell you his character this phase

Why did you assume I wanted to lynch Boron? Also, I'll just go over the pros and cons for voting Boron/Shinori.

Shinori: Shows I think he's scummy, which I've also done by, you know, saying it this phase. Downside is nobody else gives a damn.

Boron: Maybe she'll see it and get some motivation to post. Downside is nobody else gives a damn.

During D1 I thought Wren was town because I reasoned that mafia wouldn't let one of their own get lynched so easily without defending himself. My read on Mancer was more as a confused player, not as town or mafia. Also, I've never said anything about Baldrick except that I needed to reread his psots (something I haven't done yet urgh). How'd you get the idea I thought he was town into your head?

Apologies for not feeling certain about anybody's alignment aside from my own on Day 1.

@Bold: Interesting opinion. Unsure of which mislynch to push? Hmm.

Think he just meant when he did claim, he didn't claim a character as well.

I can see a case being brought up on Shinori (I think I touched upon this last phase). He's been kinda tunneling on you as well which I'm not sure yet what to think of.

I disagree with that. A) There isn't much scum could do to defend Wren unless they blatantly defended him, which would obviously look weird if Wren flipped scum B) It's possible scum hasn't communicated a whole lot just yet and it took time for them to give Wren some advice on what to say and C) SF busses their buddies quite often for town cred. Wren did end up coming back and kinda defending himself, which is probably the most that scum would probably want to do before giving up and bussing him. You said you weren't sure if Mancer was noobtown or noobscum. In all honesty this isn't very different from his normal play (so meta would suggest he's leaning town right now, but we know how reliable meta is), and I can see someone who hasn't played with him yet or that much trying to push a mislynch on him because of his style of play. Well you indirectly said he was town, since you said you didn't want to lynch Baldrick/Wren/Elieson (which is weird because they ALL ended up claiming town roles...hmmm).

Yes there is no ~hard evidence~ that anyone is scum or town, but that doesn't mean you have to be indecisive about it (like "I think he's slightly scummy...but ehhh idk he could be town" kind of thing). We're not going to get anywhere with weak pushes on cases like that. On top of that, saying things like this is "playing it safe" which is a common thing scum do in order to try not to look bad.

No no no no no. Did you consider that assuming there were an odd night doc (And assuming you're not lying about your role) that the odd night doc would, you know, counterclaim? And then we'd have both doctors exposed to the mafia begging to be sniped off?

The odd night doc could have claimed and potentially gotten you lynched, and you'd then have to backtrack and say you could only protect on even nights, and I'm not sure how many people would believe your new claim. Assuming your role is what you say it is, you're lucky the above scenario didn't happen.

I'm not really sure if by just having an even night doc automatically means an odd night doc anyway. It could easily just be a role to help counter some other killing role that only shoots on even nights (think: even night vig, for example). This little "gambit" actually makes him look more town, because scumteam would obviously poke holes at the idea and try to think of something better to do. On the other hand though, there's the possibility that scum were just trying to get the town!doc to CC and then get easy pickings for the NK. I'm leaning against this at the moment though since there was no counterclaim, and the town doc would have obviously CCed in this situation.

[Sunwoo]

I'm back. I had fun. And I'm really tired.

Wren: So you're claiming even night doctor, then. Okay. To be honest, I don't think that the existence of an even night doctor necessarily means that there is an odd night doctor. Maybe it's supposed to work in a "limited shots" type of manner where instead of having X-number of shots you can only protect on certain phases. Or there's another reason why a full doc isn't needed.

Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that your claims sounds a bit too ... convenient. Not only that but the way it happened too. Disappear for most of the game. Return when only an hour of D1 is left and claim a role that people are not going to want to lynch. Which leads to Baldrick and Elieson having to claim to keep from being lynched and everyone trying to avoid a universal loss over anything else. Now, when asked who you protected on N1, you're saying you're an even doc?

Also, I disagree with your suspicion on Baldrick for not claiming his character along with his role as opposed to ... his other actions such as interaction with people and his thoughts on players? And can we NOT lynch Baldrick just because his role seems more useful for scum instead of town? We don't know what the host knows or why the host would give players certain roles.

Doc claim or not, I still feel that Wren's actions (or lack thereof) are scummy and that his claim and the timing of his claim are too convenient.

Helios and j00: I don't think that it's unheard of for scum to target their buddies with silencer or other roles that prevent the target from participating in discussion. Town cred and all. Plus, we can't learn anything new from a person who's not talking in-thread.

I'll reanalyze JB's post #323 at a later time, when I'm not exhausted. An initial glance at it, though: regardless of whether I agree or disagree with voting inactives ... at the point you voted me, enough stuff had happened for you to have formed at least some opinion on people who WERE present. Voting for an inactive player simply for inactivity when there are people who've done more interesting stuff can be a vote park. What if I decided to ignore your pressure vote on me? Would you have kept your vote on me for the rest of the phase, waiting for me to show up and say something? Your vote would have done nothing beneficial in that case because you wouldn't be using it to vote someone you thought was scum and the person you want to talk isn't talking.

[Kay]

Also also, ##Vote:Kay

I don't like that yesterday you stayed on your RVS vote the entire time. Not only that but you had overall very few posts and even then they expressed little to none of your opinion and consisted mostly of clarification questions. As such you did very little in terms of visible scum hunting and trying to make yesterday less of the mess it was.

Furthermore, you come in here today with a pretty long post with questions/suspicions of JB and Neko, and at the end state that you want to avoid the mess that happened yesterday.

Unless the mess you are referring to is Neko's actions and not the horrible end of yesterday, your posts comes off to me as a long drawn out attempt to make yourself look as if you're being pro-active town when so far all evidence of your actions have been the opposite.

Dude, I was just plain inactive. I'm sorry about this, I know it's lame, but I don't think I have to explain why I was busy this time.

How have my previous actions been the opposite, Strawman? Besides not being active.

I feel asleep around the end of the phase, so I missed pretty much everything that happened.

I need to reread

How many times have you said that? Why not take a few moments to comment on even a single post, and add that you didn't read X pages, instead of just making an excuse and not saying anything else? Rereading is great, but not if you don't do anything else.

[Helios]

Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that your claims sounds a bit too ... convenient. Not only that but the way it happened too. Disappear for most of the game. Return when only an hour of D1 is left and claim a role that people are not going to want to lynch. Which leads to Baldrick and Elieson having to claim to keep from being lynched and everyone trying to avoid a universal loss over anything else. Now, when asked who you protected on N1, you're saying you're an even doc?

Also, I disagree with your suspicion on Baldrick for not claiming his character along with his role as opposed to ... his other actions such as interaction with people and his thoughts on players? And can we NOT lynch Baldrick just because his role seems more useful for scum instead of town? We don't know what the host knows or why the host would give players certain roles.

Doc claim or not, I still feel that Wren's actions (or lack thereof) are scummy and that his claim and the timing of his claim are too convenient.

Helios and j00: I don't think that it's unheard of for scum to target their buddies with silencer or other roles that prevent the target from participating in discussion. Town cred and all. Plus, we can't learn anything new from a person who's not talking in-thread.

It does seem convenient. How many times have we seen scum claim a protective role to either buy themselves time or get a CC? Quite a few. Especially since he's been lurking for quite some time. If look at his play outside from his role claim, he looks scummy. He's participated more now though then he did all of last phase. The fact that he hasn't been CCed though is weird to me; why wouldn't a town!doc claim and get the quick one-for-one trade off? Like I said in my post before this, I'm starting to believe Wren's actually telling the truth about his role and plan.

Also agree that we shouldn't kill Baldrick based off his role. People try to put in fun new roles and see how they work in their games all the time, so just because someone claims something uncommon doesn't mean he's faking it. If anything his claim is quite helpful since it can help us detect scum and any other killing roles. Again, the fact that there was no CC yet despite him claiming an investigative role leads me to believe he's not lying either.

It's not, but just pay attention to the situation of the game. No one CCed Baldrick's role, so I doubt he's fakeclaiming. Why would scum silence Baldrick and not someone else? They fear he might actually get a positive result and send them to the noose. So silencing him would be most beneficial to them. Read what I said in my post before this to explain why I don't think he's scum going for towncred.

Also Neko really needs to come in and give some opinions. Just because I'm not voting him doesn't mean I don't still find him suspicious for his play.

[BBM]

First person who can message me with Yellow's full name gets to sub in for NekoRex whee

[Sunwoo]

It does seem convenient. How many times have we seen scum claim a protective role to either buy themselves time or get a CC? Quite a few. Especially since he's been lurking for quite some time. If look at his play outside from his role claim, he looks scummy. He's participated more now though then he did all of last phase. The fact that he hasn't been CCed though is weird to me; why wouldn't a town!doc claim and get the quick one-for-one trade off? Like I said in my post before this, I'm starting to believe Wren's actually telling the truth about his role and plan.

Obviously I don't speak for everyone, but I can think of some reasons why a town doctor wouldn't counterclaim.

Regardless, right now I have no way of knowing whether Wren is telling the truth about his claim or not so I won't speculate on it and assume he's telling the truth, but I'm not going to drop him completely. And sure, he's been participating more than he did on D1, but I don't really like his play too much.

It's not, but just pay attention to the situation of the game. No one CCed Baldrick's role, so I doubt he's fakeclaiming. Why would scum silence Baldrick and not someone else? They fear he might actually get a positive result and send them to the noose. So silencing him would be most beneficial to them. Read what I said in my post before this to explain why I don't think he's scum going for towncred.

Good point, but keep in mind that roles =/= alignment. Also, Baldrick didn't exactly look very townie in D1, which is why I thought that scum silencing their buddy so that said buddy could gain town!cred was a possible scenario. Because, despite Baldrick's claim, his D1 play wasn't all that clean. I don't want to discard that possibility completely.

Also ...

First person who can message me with Yellow's full name gets to sub in for NekoRex whee

[Kay]

Also, a note on the Elieson wagon. It consists of ClaimedDoc!Wren, AssumedDead!Paper, Null!JB, SilencedClaimedKillCop!Baldrick, DeadHooker!Scorri, and ThatGuyIWantedToLynchYesterday!Mancer. I don't have enough time to look into context and reason behind the votes right now, but unless we want to spend time harping on a claimed silenced player and claimed!doc this only really gives us two people to get anything from, JB and Mancer.

You're not saying a thing about either JB or Mancer, though, while this seems to indicate you'd be looking at them.

[Strawman]

Yes, time to look back at JB and Mancer on the Elie wagon since its late and I'm too lazy to look at the whole thing throughout the day. Mancer's initial switch from JB to Elie don't like because its still tied with the stuff he voted him for earlier and I didn't like how he was using those arguments earlier. Mancer did later justify an Elie vote over the others with some rather bold claims about the interaction analysis it would give(pre-claim). Post Elie claim Mancer pretty much just echoes Paper about testing lynchproof claim to prevent a loss. Pre-claim keeps me suspicious of him. Post-claim gives me nothing since at that point there was no longer a better option.

JB votes him because Wren had claimed and he had no scum reads on Baldrick. Never ended up re-reading Baldrick's stuff though, as he even pointed out today. Had previously mentioned slight scum vibes from Elieson as well. Made no changes to vote but did get frustrated post Elie claim. I see nothing scummy in this behavior of JB's, doesn't change him in my view at all.

I still need to get better reads from both of them from whats been said today and add it to my opinion of them yesterday, but so far still suspicious of Mancer and JB is mostly neutral with slight suspicions.

Wren, no one is going to get anything out of a vote for Baldrick since he can't respond/react/anything to it.

As for the two claims, I will take them for what they are and believe them until I have reason not to like I do for all claims. Not lynching a doc claim even with the revelation of it being an even doc(which is strange but strange role variant doesn't = scumtell) and not lynching a silenced claimed cop without some counter claims or incriminating night actions.

Dude, I was just plain inactive. I'm sorry about this, I know it's lame, but I don't think I have to explain why I was busy this time.

How have my previous actions been the opposite, Strawman? Besides not being active.

You don't, and of course my post isn't based in lack of posts, its lack of content in those posts. As I stated, most of the posts you did make held very little opinion, made no effort in voting, and questions that weren't followed up. Pair that with super active day 2 Kay with a huge quote dump post and it looks like an over compensation.

You're not saying a thing about either JB or Mancer, though, while this seems to indicate you'd be looking at them.

Yeah, had to go do stuff so I ran out of time. And now I've been spending most of this time looking at yesterday stuff again so believe me, there is plenty I want to be looking at and will continue when it isn't almost 6 am and I haven't slept lol.

[MancerNecro]

I'm going to give the thread a more thorough read soon.

I have briefly read the thread, and I can say that from some of the posts made in D2, I can conclude that some of the players might have more information than they should have. I'll quote those posts and highlight them for town.

HAS ANYONE BEEN HOOKED BY SCORRI LAST NIGHT? It is related to my report and might help me figure out what Team Rocket can do each Night.

[Jaybee]

i'm really not sure if anyone is going to declare if they're hooked

[MancerNecro]

i'm really not sure if anyone is going to declare if they're hooked

True...

[MancerNecro]

I'm not really sure if by just having an even night doc automatically means an odd night doc anyway. It could easily just be a role to help counter some other killing role that only shoots on even nights (think: even night vig, for example).

Wren: So you're claiming even night doctor, then. Okay. To be honest, I don't think that the existence of an even night doctor necessarily means that there is an odd night doctor. Maybe it's supposed to work in a "limited shots" type of manner where instead of having X-number of shots you can only protect on certain phases. Or there's another reason why a full doc isn't needed.

These posts make me think that both Helios and Boron are trying to help to explain and justify Wren's actions and what he could have done better.

They are saying "There might not be an Odd Night Doctor even though there is an Even Night Doctor." It looks like they are trying to help make Wren appear town. Are the three of you scum buddies?

It does seem convenient. How many times have we seen scum claim a protective role to either buy themselves time or get a CC? Quite a few. Especially since he's been lurking for quite some time. If look at his play outside from his role claim, he looks scummy. He's participated more now though then he did all of last phase. The fact that he hasn't been CCed though is weird to me; why wouldn't a town!doc claim and get the quick one-for-one trade off? Like I said in my post before this, I'm starting to believe Wren's actually telling the truth about his role and plan.

Also agree that we shouldn't kill Baldrick based off his role. People try to put in fun new roles and see how they work in their games all the time, so just because someone claims something uncommon doesn't mean he's faking it. If anything his claim is quite helpful since it can help us detect scum and any other killing roles. Again, the fact that there was no CC yet despite him claiming an investigative role leads me to believe he's not lying either.

It's not, but just pay attention to the situation of the game. No one CCed Baldrick's role, so I doubt he's fakeclaiming. Why would scum silence Baldrick and not someone else? They fear he might actually get a positive result and send them to the noose. So silencing him would be most beneficial to them. Read what I said in my post before this to explain why I don't think he's scum going for towncred.

This entire response by Helios shows that he has a much greater grasp of the game than a normal townie. Look at the way he phrased his paragraphs. They leave no uncertainty in them. Thus, I think that Helios, Wren and Taewoo might be scum buddies.

##Unvote: Shatter

##Vote: Helios for being the most sure of himself in his posts.

[Jaybee]

These posts make me think that both Helios and Boron are trying to help to explain and justify Wren's actions and what he could have done better.

They are saying "There might not be an Odd Night Doctor even though there is an Even Night Doctor." It looks like they are trying to help make Wren appear town. Are the three of you scum buddies?

It does seem convenient. How many times have we seen scum claim a protective role to either buy themselves time or get a CC? Quite a few. Especially since he's been lurking for quite some time. If look at his play outside from his role claim, he looks scummy. He's participated more now though then he did all of last phase. The fact that he hasn't been CCed though is weird to me; why wouldn't a town!doc claim and get the quick one-for-one trade off? Like I said in my post before this, I'm starting to believe Wren's actually telling the truth about his role and plan.

Also agree that we shouldn't kill Baldrick based off his role. People try to put in fun new roles and see how they work in their games all the time, so just because someone claims something uncommon doesn't mean he's faking it. If anything his claim is quite helpful since it can help us detect scum and any other killing roles. Again, the fact that there was no CC yet despite him claiming an investigative role leads me to believe he's not lying either.

It's not, but just pay attention to the situation of the game. No one CCed Baldrick's role, so I doubt he's fakeclaiming. Why would scum silence Baldrick and not someone else? They fear he might actually get a positive result and send them to the noose. So silencing him would be most beneficial to them. Read what I said in my post before this to explain why I don't think he's scum going for towncred.

Also Neko really needs to come in and give some opinions. Just because I'm not voting him doesn't mean I don't still find him suspicious for his play.

This entire response by Helios shows that he has a much greater grasp of the game than a normal townie. Look at the way he phrased his paragraphs. They leave no uncertainty in them. Thus, I think that Helios, Wren and Taewoo might be scum buddies.

##Unvote: Shatter

##Vote: Helios for being the most sure of himself in his posts.

Maybe they're, uh, trying to rationalise Wren's thoughts for everyone else in the event that he is actually END?

@underlined: lol fuck subtlety #1

Helios never gives the impression that he's assured of everything. He believes Wren is town, he speculates on why Baldrick would be silenced, he thinks Baldrick is town. He might appear to have a greater grasp of the game because he's making perfectly reasonable explanations and extrapolating within reason.

@underlined2: lol fuck subtlety #2

@italics: I've never seen anybody throw a vote on someone for being sure of themselves, and this is one of the worst reasons I've ever seen for a vote.

##Unvote

##Vote Mancer

[MancerNecro]

I threw a vote at Helios for being sure of himself when he states and makes use of information that should not be available to him.

I suggest you look at your own choice of words as well as the way that Helios has phrased his paragraphs.

I would want to ask you for more elaboration behind "perfectly reasonable explanations and extrapolating within reason", because I don't see how reasonable they are.

Given what information there is and all the doubts that there are behind Wren and Baldrick's claims, I don't see how reasonable those claims are.

They are at the very most, speculations, so I don't see why Helios can speak of then with such certainty unless he has some extra information.

[Jaybee]

It is possible that Wren and Baldrick are town, and it's also possible that they are scum. Helios is using the information that's been given to him to give his reasoning for Baldrick and Wren to be town. He never outright calls either of them town, and though I don't really agree with his stance on Wren, I can see the reasoning for it.

What 'information' does Helios appear to have that he shouldn't, anyway?

[j00]

Mancer, people have been throwing out votes on other for waffling, i.e appearing too indecisive. Voting someone simply for appearing "too confident" isn't really a good case. Most people consider others bad if they use "I think", "maybe", "probably" and such too much because you're being careful. You've been really quick to vote people in this game, but it could be what you usually do, I dunno.

Also, I don't think anyone is going to claim hooker at this point, and since you've already revealed that you have a report, you might as well out it.

Reading the Helios and NekoRex argument, I think NekoRex comes out worse. NekoRex's post aren't very good in general. He say's stuff like speculation is bad and treats speculation like wild guesses, and he keeps mentioning his gut feelings which is a quick way of throwing unexplained suspicions.

Baldrick's claim itself can easily be fake. He doesn't need a CC for something as unusual as that. Scum know they can kill, most townies can't, and he could clear scum or claim guilty reports on town and say his result is inaccurate or whatever. Lack of a fakeclaim doesn't clear him. Scum could also have silenced him for town cred, since he was looking pretty bad last phase.

I'll post more soon, a bit busy for the moment

[MancerNecro]

I'd rather not claim my role or results at this point. It will likely make me an open target. I'll claim when I get definitive or incriminating results.

True on those counts of indecisiveness and use of those words like "probably" and "maybe" or "I think".

I'll leave my vote on Helios until he responds, because I want to see what he thinks of what I've said and if he wants to clarify himself.

[Jaybee]

What 'information' does Helios appear to have that he shouldn't, anyway?

[MancerNecro]

Very likely some kind of role claim/PM/cop ability or through coordinating with his scum buddies, he knows that Wren is scum claiming town.

It's information that normal town members (including me) would not know, so I don't think I can give a definitive review of what it is.

[Jaybee]

And where exactly does he display this supposed knowledge? Or did you somehow infer this from his confidence levels?

[MancerNecro]

From his confidence levels.

[Elieson]

Mancer, Helios strongly believes his case on WREN, and is acting based on his opinion. He's not being flippity floppy and waffly with his thoughts, he's being stern. On a case involving a Doc. Which can only go a few ways.

First off your report on assuming scorri hooked someone is bringing nothing really to the table, as if someone were hooked (with the exception of Paperblade/Bal), we'd have heard by now -especially if it was a townie who was hooked-. And that's just assuming that an active role was hooked. Someone like me with just Gov could be hooked every night until N4, and I'd probably not even know. For one, you're outting to the public that you have reports, which you've been crumbing all day, which strongly implies that you have an active role (something that we're not really wanting to share with scum in case you didn't know). Second off, it starts here:

I've heard some strange things last Night, but nothing as strange as Paperblade's disappearance.....

WTF is this even supposed to be. This post alone makes me see you as a strong candidate of scum-alliance.

Though now I see where you're going, it's awfully out there for someone trying to be covert about his N1 results as early as D2.

Also, in #239, you said I didn't answer some of your questions. Can you bring them up so I can answer them (more likely, when I return from the airport)?

Second, still waiting on Shinori to clarify what he meant on Lt. Surge being Silencer. I don't know if he was just making a guess at it or if he has some sort of information proving that. Also his late-D1 performance really didn't sit well with me. Everything he's said so far leads me to believe that he is probably scum due to his persistance on trying to push JB and Mancer under the bus (Mancer albeit weakly).

Third, the only thing holding me back from voting for WREN is his claim, especially because if anything it allows him to do something of use tonight (as opposed to his "gambit" of drawing a doc to him last night and do nothing else at all). One thing I've learned is that early doc claims are typically ignored by scum due to potential presence of potential watchers, so if I had a bet, it's that scum is holding off on you while they search around for roles that could bite them in the butt later on. However, that doesn't mean that his play isnt scummy. If he gets through the day with his claim protecting him, then he has essentially bought himself a free day of life to use his hypothetical protection, and if he is bluffing, then he might just end up being stopped in some other way that he can just shout out into the open as a blank assumtion based on what we know right now (i.e. scum Redirect, SG, simply targetting the wrong person).

Fourth,

##Vote Shinori

Finally, one thing I assume is that when Bal makes his valiant return, that if he scored a positive result on someone in particular, that he'll end up voting for X player. In fact, I strongly suggest that Baldrick read this and only vote for a player if he did indeed score a positive, and should simply do a quick Selfvote-Unvote just to let us know if he didn't come up with any results.