If Fire Emblem was released outside of Japan from the begining,

[Acacia Sgt]

If Earthbound failed to generate much interest in the western market, I doubt a series as difficult as Fire Emblem would have.

Though wasn't a big factor of Earthbound's failure because of the way it was advertised? I doubt FE would've had the same treatment.

[Rehab]

I'd like to think it means we'd be more accepting of name localizations, but who knows.

First cousin marriage is actually legal in about 25 states, depending on circumstances. Note, of course, that this is twice as many states as allow same-sex marriage... oh, and a stipulation in a few of them is that they can only marry if they can't have children. I am laughing on the outside, crying inside. All but three states will recognize it, however.

Intercourse between them is only illegal in seven states - Kentucky, Mississippi, the Dakotas, Texas, Utah, and Nevada.

Ah, thanks for the major correction.

[Anouleth]

Wasn't that mentioned in the game?

I don't really remember any mention of Holyn's relation to Ira. It's strongly implied that Claude and Sylvia are siblings:

"Sylvia:

I'm an orphan. This man took me in when I was real little, an' raised me to be a dancer.

But he was really mean! He would hit me when I didn't even do anythin'.

Anyway, I had enough, and I left him last year for good!

Claude:

That's horrible!

I feel for you. You see, I have a younger sister. If she's still alive, she'd be around your age.

Sylvia:

You have a sister?

Claude:

Yes. But she was abducted when she was just a baby.

I've been searching for her all these years, but still no sign of her."

Why? Since when is marrying cousins incest?

Marrying cousins is widely considered to be incest in the western world, even if it is not considered incest in other parts of the world (

Lachesis can still admire him imo, without the incest mentions.

That's what I was thinking of.

I'm pretty sure first cousin incest is illegal in the U.S., at least.

First cousin incest is illegal in some states in the US, but it's rarely practised in other western countries (which is really the reason there are no laws against it). First cousin incest is widely practised in the Middle East, however.

[BrightBow]

Though wasn't a big factor of Earthbound's failure because of the way it was advertised? I doubt FE would've had the same treatment.

Well, when they eventually DID advertise Fire Emblem, they did a pretty bad job at it. I doubt they would have done better in the 90s.

Oh great, now I kinda have to imagine Marth with a grin like Mega Man had on most of the old NoA covers...

Anyway, whether it would have become a classic during the NES days would probably have been mostly based on luck. And they probably would have ended skipping Gaiden, similar how they skipped the missing Final Fantasy titles.

Edit:

Also, what is all the talk about Lachesis? Is there any mention of incest? Saying that she wants to marry a man like her brother probably isn't enough.

Okay, AlessXNanna conversation in Endgame. Nevermind then.

Still, I don't think they would change anything in regards of the cousins. I doubt they would pay enough attention to even notice that.

Edited December 20, 2012 by BrightBow

[Rapier]

Still, I don't think they would change anything in regards of the cousins. I doubt they would pay enough attention to even notice that.

Tell that to Nintendo and their absurd policy of looking good for whiny parents.

First cousin marriage is actually legal in about 25 states, depending on circumstances. Note, of course, that this is twice as many states as allow same-sex marriage... oh, and a stipulation in a few of them is that they can only marry if they can't have children. I am laughing on the outside, crying inside. All but three states will recognize it, however.

Intercourse between them is only illegal in seven states - Kentucky, Mississippi, the Dakotas, Texas, Utah, and Nevada.

So it isn't entirely ilegal. There's nothing saying it's incest on my country (and no, I'm not from an eastern one), although first cousins having children is extremely risky for their child because of the similar genes or something like that (which is completely different from FE, as they get boosts from cousincest =P).

Well, I just take cousin incest lightly so I may be wrong.

[BrightBow]

Tell that to Nintendo and their absurd policy of looking good for whiny parents.

Yeah, of course. They are infamous for stuff like that. They would have issues with even the tamest of words, religious symbols and stuff like that.

But I think that it's entirely possible that they wouldn't have noticed the exact character relationships in the first place.

Let's take the Neir family as an example:

The game doesn't exactly beat you over the head with the fact that Lex kids are cousins of the Axe Bros. It's only mentioned briefly that Dannan is Langobalts son. You have to deduce it yourself and that requires you to be suspicious towards an entirely harmless looking sentence in the first place.

I think the NoA morality police was way to superficial for that.

Edited December 20, 2012 by BrightBow

[Rapier]

That is, if Lex is paired with Ayra in the end. I'm pretty sure Holyn is a distant cousin of Ayra, it's mentioned he's the son of a lordling that is related to their lineage.

I don't think it's hard to change these parts, really. The only problem is, FE isn't that famous even now. I kinda doubt it would be famous enough for IS to invest on an overseas market. It may be just me, though.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Rapier

[Iridium]

although first cousins having children is extremely risky for their child because of the similar genes or something like that

Oh, I know.

I was merely pointing out the irony about how I'm apparently not allowed to marry because I can't make babies and yet, in some jurisdictions, they're only allowed to marry if they can't make babies. Just a little bit of bitterness, not much more.

[Jotari]

Even if the first few titles didn't do too well it doesn't mean we wouldn't have got the later ones. Melee probably would have come along and raised just as much awareness for the series sending it down the same path if the first few titles were really obscure. The most positive result of such a past would be the older, already translated games getting a release on the western virtual console.

[Swordsalmon]

So it isn't entirely ilegal. There's nothing saying it's incest on my country (and no, I'm not from an eastern one), although first cousins having children is extremely risky for their child because of the similar genes or something like that (which is completely different from FE, as they get boosts from cousincest =P).

Well, I just take cousin incest lightly so I may be wrong.

The increase of defects from 1st cousin marriages is barely higher than two random people, not high enough to really make a difference. :/

[AMCC4728]

The increase of defects from 1st cousin marriages is barely higher than two random people, not high enough to really make a difference. :/

Limited incest is actually highly beneficial as it strengthens genetic immunities to disease. When it happens over and over again is when you start having defects.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Austin LePurple

[Integrity]

Okay, this incest train has gotten really fucking creepy. I don't know if I want to call it a derail, but I'd rather it stopped. :(

[RJWalker]

I suppose there'd be less Belf/Vergil debates. Even though I wasn't a part of that, I can stiill see the effects.

[Paper Jam]

Even if the first few titles didn't do too well it doesn't mean we wouldn't have got the later ones. Melee probably would have come along and raised just as much awareness for the series sending it down the same path if the first few titles were really obscure. The most positive result of such a past would be the older, already translated games getting a release on the western virtual console.

I don't know. Melee raised awareness of Earthbound as well as Fire Emblem, but that wasn't enough to get Earthbound rereleased.

If the old Nintendo Power magazines are anything to go by, we'd probably be talking about Marus and Zigludo rather than Marth and Sigurd. Not a big change, but I like the latter names better.

Anyway, I don't think that a game like Fire Emblem would have been a commercial success in the US or Europe in the 1990s, in the first place because the games were effing HARD, and in the second place because JRPGs weren't particularly popular there prior to 1997. And in the third place, I doubt Nintendo of America would have been much better at marketing Fire Emblem than they were at marketing Earthbound.

I'm pretty sure that there weren't any games like Fire Emblem released in the US or Europe in the 1990s that were commercially successful. The closest thing would probably be Heroes of Might and Magic, released in the US in 1995, but its resemblance to Fire Emblem beyond being a turn-based strategy RPG is... questionable.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Paper Jam

[Gone2Ground]

TBH I wouldn't mind that too much, it's nothing too bad.

Plus, imagine how much of a shock Sigurd's death would have been back then, that would have left such a huge mark for US RPG's at the time.

And we wouldn't have to scream every time someone calls Aerith the most shocking death in gaming...

Anyway, I don't think that a game like Fire Emblem would have been a commercial success in the US or Europe in the 1990s, in the first place because the games were effing HARD, and in the second place because JRPGs weren't particularly popular there prior to 1997. And in the third place, I doubt Nintendo of America would have been much better at marketing Fire Emblem than they were at marketing Earthbound.

Fire Emblem Scratch N' Sniff - Soldiers after three days of marching through the Spirit Forest.

Smells like old socks.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Gone2Ground

[Paper Jam]

Okay, maybe not every marketing campaign by Nintendo in the 90s was THAT bad... but I think part of the reason why their Earthbound campaign was so weak was that they didn't really know how to advertise it. And I think they would have had almost as much trouble figuring out how to advertise Fire Emblem.

I think that Fire Emblem's reputation as "that game with Marth and Roy" really helped sell it in the US and Europe. I would go so far as to call Super Smash Bros. one of Nintendo's most successful marketing campaigns.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Paper Jam

[Original Alear]

Japan would actually be a US territory/state/colony and therefore FE would have been released in the US and out of Japan from the beginning.

(Occam's Vulgar Razor approach)

[Garteam]

The priest I'm 100% sure would get renamed if Nintendo actually translated and the games and released them back when they came out, and anything else related to religion due to NOA's strict standards back then.

[MacLovin]

The priest I'm 100% sure would get renamed if Nintendo actually translated and the games and released them back when they came out, and anything else related to religion due to NOA's strict standards back then.

Cleric[M]

See?

Also, FE could have made a big splash with fe4 if everything was done juuuusssst right.

[Firespark Faerie]

I think the series would have turned out very differently if it had been released in America from the beginning. As far as difficulty goes, I don't think that would have been a huge issue, as they would simply make the gameplay easier for the US audience, much like how some Square games were, such as Final Fantasy IV (aka II). With early releases the largest difference would have been in translation and localization of the script. Cleric/ Priest would likely be renamed to something like "Medic," and references to things like drinking would be removed.

The greatest changes however, I thought would have been with later games, beyond the SNES era. In the wake of the success of Final Fantasy VII internationally. To appeal to the Western audience, the transition to 3D would have happened much earlier, and FE6 would be released earlier and for the N64. It would not have been Roy's story as we know it, but rather something with cyberpunk elements (perhaps light sabers, and guns replacing bows to name a few), again to appeal to the FFVII audience. You can say what you want about Cloud and Sephiroth (and to be honest it's not among my favorite games), but Final Fantasy VII was pivotal in showing that RPGs coulld sell well in the west. With IS developing FE titles for the N64, Paper Mario might never have happened, but that's not necessarily true. The Wars series, also by IS might have been affected by this as well. Future Fire Emblem titles would continue to ride this success, featuring admittedly impressive looking, futuristic worlds, but whiny, angsty pretty-boy Lords and their demure though rebelious girlfriends.

All in all, I'm glad Nintendo waited until the time was right to bring FE over. I'm in love with the series just the way it is, without the anachronisms of the modern world and beyond that have invaded into many classic fantasy series. Another positive to this is that the series isn't plagued with cheesy, effortless spinoffs.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Firespark Faerie

[Refa]

The greatest changes however, I thought would have been with later games, beyond the SNES era. In the wake of the success of Final Fantasy VII internationally. To appeal to the Western audience, the transition to 3D would have happened much earlier, and FE6 would be released earlier and for the N64. It would not have been Roy's story as we know it, but rather something with cyberpunk elements (perhaps light sabers, and guns replacing bows to name a few), again to appeal to the FFVII audience. You can say what you want about Cloud and Sephiroth (and to be honest it's not among my favorite games), but Final Fantasy VII was pivotal in showing that RPGs coulld sell well in the west. With IS developing FE titles for the N64, Paper Mario might never have happened, but that's not necessarily true. The Wars series, also by IS might have been affected by this as well. Future Fire Emblem titles would continue to ride this success, featuring admittedly impressive looking, futuristic worlds, but whiny, angsty pretty-boy Lords and their demure though rebelious girlfriends.

This is just bad logic. "Final Fantasy VII, a traditional JRPG, was popular, so Nintendo decides to change its SRPG series so that it would imitate all of the changes that FF made in an attempt to get all the international appeal." If Nintendo was as reactionary and eager to retool their franchises without a moment's hesitation as you imply, why haven't they done it with any of their other franchises? Why does Battalion Wars still feature cutesy soldiers instead of more realistic people, with the generic western main character? Why does Fire Emblem still have anime art?

All in all, I'm glad Nintendo waited until the time was right to bring FE over. I'm in love with the series just the way it is, without the anachronisms of the modern world and beyond that have invaded into many classic fantasy series. Another positive to this is that the series isn't plagued with cheesy, effortless spinoffs.

It's a Nintendo game, they change at a rate that makes continental drift look fast. I don't get why Fire Emblem is oh-so-special in this regard.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Refa

[Jotari]

To appeal to the Western audience, the transition to 3D would have happened much earlier, and FE6 would be released earlier and for the N64.

Funny thing about that, FE5 was released near the end of 1999, on the SNES, the Nintendo 64 was released half way through 1996 meaning if they're were going to be influential changes based on the Nintendo 64 it probably would have happened to FE5. Or they would have continued to work on FE5 for the SNES and then began working on FE6 on the Nintendo 64 and then scraped the idea when the Game Cube came out instead porting it to the Gameboy Advance ala Mother 3.

[Firespark Faerie]

While this is an exaggeration, Nintendo has made smaller changes to various games, RPG and otherwise, arguably with the hopes of increasing marketability in the West. The anime styled artwork for certain NES and SNES games, such as Dragon Warrior (Dragon Quest) and Breath of Fire were replaced with edgier looking characters. NoA had wanted to do this with Pokemon before Red and Blue were released internationally, but the series creator, Satoshi Tajiri refused. Given Pokemon's popularity, this turned out not to be necessary. Many Nintendo series, including staples like Mario and Zelda have adopted 'darker and edgier' designs and plots in some recent titles, which arguably sell better in the West, as well as to the adult audience. Awakening is no exception with its T rating, mild use of swears, and other touchy subjects in the supports (though it it is possible that the GBA and Tellius games had their scripts censored a bit in translation- I haven't played the Japanese versions so I don't know.), along with the darker, more shadowy colors used in representing both the game world and characters, compared to the brighter ones of earlier games.

Going by what you said, had FE had a decent following in the West at the time, FE5 would have been an N64 game for sure. As evidenced by series such as Dragon Quest, Japanese gamers as a whole tend to be less graphics savvy, which often serves as a roadblock when these games are brought to the international market. Even by that standard, I find it surprising to learn that FE5 was released so late for the SNES, which by then would surely have been out of production. My knowledge of FE before Blazing Sword isn't too keen, but as far as I do know, Nintendo never even had any thoughts to release the series overseas until Super Smash Bros Melee. It was even originally planned to remove Marth and Roy from the US version due to them not being familiar characters, but they were left in because the localization team liked them. If they had been cut as planned, I don't think we would have ever seen a stateside release of FE.