Tales of Symphonia Mafia Ver. 1.0

[charlie_]

Did I not say I was busy jesus

Read the rules guys, we only need 33% for a lynch a lynch can take off on anybody.

Marth, I MENTIONED that Aleph had later content I found scummy, but I said I'd do it later. Combinee with ignoring Shinori's extension notice, and scorri saying it too makes me think you either havdn't read, or are trying to push a lynch really hard.

Bigger post coming on a actual computer.

[charlie_]

oh wait, just 33% to not get universal loss, hnggggggg

[MancerNecro]

So we need to stack 5 votes on someone to avoid UL.

I actually suggest voting Bluedoom. He's most definitely scum, and with Helios, CR and I finding him scummy, that's already 3 votes on him.

[Elieson]

I fell asleep while making a post last night and overslept so now in at work trying to recall what it was that I was posting.

Lesse. @ Helios: since there are 10 town it would make sense for coming up with 5 people that you'd want to see lynched. I obviously have a stance on SB. CR I am also quite concerned about. I was poorly guided scum in SFMM2 so it's quite literally possible that CR is simply not being helped, as I was 20 games ago. Call it a feeling but her posts just feel like the ones I used to make when noob!scum. Then would have to come Aleph. It just seems as though he's dancing around content posting and not bringing anything serious to the table. Quickly rising is Marth because of his constant providing reasons for alternative votes (votes other than his primary) containing reasoning post-vote, and confidence that we can "Afford a mislynch". I'd have him higher but until his more recent posts i just saw Helios and Marth as town fighting, but now I'm not so sure. Kinda lost for a 5th read at this point though, only because I think discussion is stagnating (I know like I'm one to talk), and we just need something new to discuss. I'm hunching Strawsloth, but it's more association that will be based on CR's alignment if it ever gets cleared up.

SB>>CR>Aleph/Marth>>>>>>>>Straw

More in a bit, I'm gonna fix my second flat tire of the week. I plan on reviewing Marth in this Marth v Helios debacle when I get a minute or 20.

[charlie_]

Ok so if the Aleph lynch isn't taking off, I could definitely lynch Marth. His constant vote hopping around with weak reasons and ignoring a lot of posts that mention the extension (I'm pretty sure it had been brought up multiple times), and you ignored that to stay sat on me to secure a lynch. Along with the fact he's been defensive most of the game, and his constant meta usage that he based early reads off of. There's also the fact his obsession with CR's SK slip that makes me think he's the anti town worrying about the existence of an SK, while trying to use it to seem town.

##Unvote

##Vote: Marth

I'll claim if necessary, but I doubt it'll change much.

Mancer's absolute certainty that Marth is scum might be something to look into though, we can see when Marth flips.

[Helios]

Helios you keep using hypothetical ' vig shoots scum' or 'SK shoots scum' like you think the positives are going to happen everytime. It reminds me of your scumplay in .hack, where you claimed vig at massclaim time and then said you didn't shoot me because you thought I was so obvious scum that town would lynch me the next D phase. I think you do a lot of assuming as scum, don't you?

Idc if this is another vote hop, but you've been passive aggressive against me even after you switched to SB.

Your contribution throughout this phase has been mainly attacking me and agreeing with points against me instead of actual scumhunting.

The little that you did includes assuming that Baldrick is distancing( which again, is more assumptions and isn't even the SOLID EVIDENCE you want in scumhunting) and thinking Scorri wanted you lynched for no reason when she simply had a gut read on you. I agree her questioning you talking about only JB and SB wasn't great like she wasn't reading the thread properly but you made some weird speculation out of her gut read which is misrepping at its worst. This is like the second time you've made some weird-ass spec and told people not to take it srsly, that is called distancing yourself from theories and mislynches.

My CR votehop might be horrible that is arguable, but I don't like that you pull my SB vote out of context. You keep missing the part where I say that I thought phase ended today and I wanted to consolidate a lynch. You're misrepresenting the details in a scummy manner.

##Unvote ##Vote: Helios

You do know I've only said that once right? And I said at least we have the POTENTIAL of doing so. I'm not counting on it at all. Also with the .hack// reference you're comparing something that isn't even comparable. Wtf does me fakeclaiming vig in .hack// have to do with me not wanting to lynch a possible SK instead of possible scum? Nothing.

Switching your vote isn't bad. Switching your vote for little reason to no reason is bad. Like your switches to CR and SB.

This is quite a dangerous generalization. You've talked more than most people though, and you've still been acting scummy, so naturally I'll focus on you. I've talked about other people though and one thing you definitely can't say about my play so far is that I haven't been scumhunting.

No it's called making a damn observation. People get vibes off little things and talk about them all the time and it isn't scummy, but when I do it it is? Quite the double standard don't you think? When someone who hasn't even read through the thread yet just pops in and says "My first instinct is to drop a vote on Helios...however, I feel the need to reread since I've been skimming". She had been joking about lynching me before which is alright since it was still kinda RVS, but that statement felt weird to me since it was when the game was getting more serious. So that's where I got a weird vibe from.

Well I'm pretty sure people mentioned that we had the extension and that's why people weren't freaking out about getting a lynch off at that time. It's easy to look at that switch to SB as a simple wagon hop with the excuse that you "didn't read Shinori's post" but even I knew that we had an extension and I missed that Baldrick switched in for Iris lol. It's kinda unarguable though since I have no way of knowing whether or not you're telling the truth regarding not knowing when the deadline was so I'll drop it.

##Unvote

##Vote Marth

SB is looking better and I still prefer a Marth lynch anyway. It's weird how much more confident Mancer is about Marth flipping scum than I am, and like SB said that's probably something we'll need to look into depending on his flip.

[Shinori]

Day ends in like 5 hours.

Updated votals in a sec, I'm not doing anything else, just woke up.

I'll answer the question about inactives in a sec.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Shinori

[Prims]

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

Been busy as shit, sorry. Still think Baldrick is scum, still think Obviam is obvtown getting pushed for dumb reasons.

[Shinori]

Helios[1]: Marth, Aleph

Marth[4]: Helios, Mancer, CR, SB

SB[4] j00, Elieson, Prims, J00

Shatter[1]: scorri

Aleph[1]: Baldrick

Not Voting: Straw, Shatter

I believe these are right.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Shinori

[Prims]

Also Marth is obvtown, what are you guys doing.

I seriously didn't realize we had this little time left. I'm supposed to be doing other shit today but I'll try to get a post out. I guess.

[Shinori]

Shatter, Strawman, and Aleph have all been prodded, again. If they don't hear from them during the night phase and I don't have a sub ready for them I'll most likely end up modkilling them.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Shinori

[Helios]

Helios[1]: Marth, Aleph

Marth[5]: Helios, Mancer, CR, SB, Helios

SB[3] j00, Elieson, Prims

Shatter[1]: scorri

Aleph[1]: Baldrick

Not Voting: Straw, Shatter,j00

I believe these are right.

I can't vote twice :(

@Prims: How the hell is Marth obvtown?

[Shinori]

Helios[1]: Marth, Aleph

Marth[4]: Helios, Mancer, CR, SB

SB[3] j00, Elieson, Prims

Shatter[1]: scorri

Aleph[1]: Baldrick

Not Voting: Straw, Shatter

Fixed.

[Baldrick]

Still don't want to lynch either Marth or SB, but I'll do it if necessary since we're not in definite mylo and I don't think we can take a NL + ML anyway.

Does anyone think my "lynch to foil modkill" plan is not the worst idea?

[Prims]

D1:

Pretty sure Marth wagon is gonna flip town; switching to an attempt at Helios wagon is pretty bad for scum survival when he could just push BBM or take advantage of SB's absence to go for that lynch instead

I'll vote him for majority if SB can't get more votes, but I'm pretty sure he's town.

I wish people would stop throwing around the word "echoing" because it's a buzzword in SF Mafia and nobody has actually directly parroted the points of another player. It's not scummy to have the same opinion as somebody else!

I'm starting to feel like scorri is going out of her way to avoid wagons and coast. Late D1 she votes a non-target, D2 she votes a non-target again with no comments on the actual targets. She was also one of the people pushing a CR lynch for SK reasons.

Obviam needs to consolidate since I saw him on a bit earlier and the Helios lynch doesn't seem to be happening. I know you said you'd be down for SB lynch and you've disagreed with the Marf lynch for most of the game, so come help us actually lynch maf today please thanks.

We're not No Lynching, btw. Our lynch can hit scum. The scum nightkill can not hit scum (unless there's a driver, which we can't rely on).

[Prims]

Baldrick, just put your vote somewhere useful now instead of saving it until the last fucking minute geez

[Shinori]

A little under 4 hours till phase end.

[Aleph]

SB, do you really need to litter the thread with posts about how you can't make a real post yet? When I ditch SF to play PSO all day I just do it. I don't care what people think about my absence because I have more interesting things to do. Why are you so worried about letting people know about your personal issues with playing the game unless you're afraid of them forming an accurate and negative opinion about your alignment?

RE: Strawman - forgot he was in the game because he was subbed in and then never said anything. Actually does very poorly for his case considering what Bizz did before she left. Fanatic and self contradictory followed by complete absence?

Speaking of self contradictory, Helios is still masterful at it. I will give him this though: Marth has been saying a lot of things lately that indicate he's okay lynching for info over lynching for scum, and I've said before that the SK!CR read is too weak to risk. When it was solely just Helios tunneling him into what appeared to be an incoherent blob, he looked like an idiot who was exasperated town, but now he seems to be more confident and prone to spewing things he shouldn't say. Who cares if it's MYLO or not? We still need to lynch scum. If it's not MYLO now it will be later if we fuck up.

Baldric replaced Iris, who seemed buddy with Helios based on Helios's supposed read of her. Now Baldrick seems to agree with Helios a lot and they still appear like a scum team to me.

JB seems to have disappeared again, particularly more so now that he's been under the spotlight.

That string of posts by Mancer was awful. He's actually pretty hard to read because he's so full of shit that he just appears scummy naturally. However, while it was ridiculous watching Marth and Helios be the only people posting for a while...being the only person posting by himself so he could switch his votes around like crazy and then dump hard on the random target he finally settled on just screams that he's mafia.

Looks like Helios, SB, Baldrick, Mancer, Straw and JB are the scummy lot based on their subtle and not so subtle coordination. If there's only 4 scum, I'd drop JB just because he's fairly detached from them. That could be a ruse but it looks genuine. With JB's behaviour being as tacky as it is though I'd just as easily swap him and Mancer in a 4 scum estimate based on the fact that Mancer's possibly just an idiot. Well he's definitely an idiot, but he might not be a scum idiot. As for the other drop, I won't forego the possibility that Bizz and Straw were/are exhibiting really shitty town play and that my initial read was off, but for a 4 person guess I could still go with Helios, SB, Baldrick and Strawman. For 5 I'd put back JB for playing similarly to how Iris was, because scum!Mancer is unusually obvious. Not uncharacteristic, just unusual.

Baldrick, I tried not to use a load of annoying words in my post for everyone's sake, because they really are getting annoying at this point. You can contrive that I used those words before saying I was tired of them as a pitiful attempt to attack me, but you'd be disregarding that I wasn't as bad about it and that the words weren't saturating everyone's posts nearly as much until around then. I've played a handful of games on SF and none of them have been that repetitive with their diction as the posts in this game. We need to spruce up our vocabulary so it doesn't feel like people are saying the same shit over and over and not really getting us anywhere.

Speaking of which, how many people have actually changed their opinions over the course of the game? A few of you seem conveniently adamant to disregard new material, even going as far as claiming there isn't any, so that you don't have to work hard to present a better case than the crap you have when it turns out we may have been going in the wrong direction. While we're on the subject I'd like to update my reads on j00, scorri and CR since I haven't given my thoughts on them in a while.

j00 still appears to me like he's town, with the same people I'd suspected of trying to sheep Marth picking at him with twisted misreads. You want to talk about misrepresentation, go look in the mirror.

scorri appears to be a very observant townie, piecing together things people have overlooked and presenting strong cases that appear authentic rather than carefully woven (like what I accused Prims of doing earlier; where is Prims anyway?). More specifically she also seems to be in a position where the role actions gave her information most everyone else seems to have missed out on, given that no one else has really said anything about the night. She introduced that information into the thread for the town to digest and is generally being more helpful while saying much less. Regarding that there's apparently a redirect, I'll reiterate that it's important not to give up your claim so easily even if you're town because it's just asking for the mafia to exploit you.

CR is scumhunting fairly well now. While this contrasts with her earlier play to make it appear more fishy, it could also be a real improvement from being inexperienced to successfully calling people out on their crap. Much of which was actually Marth's, and she doesn't look like she's trying unusually hard to get him lynched.

The town's in a dichotomy now, as is often the case, and while my game theory is probably not as accurate as I'd like to think, I say it's worth considering that much of the scum are probably in one half of the split over the other. When I was new to the game I'd actually write these "implied teams" out on paper (read: notepad.exe) and present them to the town, and it helps give perspective. That said, dichotomy isn't the best word, because while there's usually 2 main groups, there's always stragglers.

So the first group that's obvious to me:

Helios, SB, Mancer, Baldrick and Strawman. They seem to share many opinions and clever!Helios really only gets in SB's shit now and then before going back to his actual original plans. I could comfortably move Straw to his own group however since Bizz did call Helios out for "coming to her rescue".

Prims and JB. JB in particular has crap to say when he finally does show up, and while Prims isn't as bad about it, he still had some weak things to say and is similarly lurking. Because the scum are probably not quite stupid enough to lump themselves together if Helios is guiding them, I'd guess the scum team is probably a combination of people from group 1 and group 2.

Marth, j00, Aleph. My town reads are mostly coming from the apparent coordination from group 1, and if they're mafia, then the people they're chewing are probably town. The important thing to note is that while I can never be certain of someone's alignment until they flip, I'm fairly convinced that group 1's flips will be the opposite of marth's or j00's.

Scorri and Elieson. They look the most like they're actually playing the game and not making shit up.

BBM is off by himself. He flipped town after being voted by people from group 1 and voting for people from group 3.

Shin and CR. CR's played erratically in terms of her apparent alignment. People have suspected her of just about everything, and she's gone from admitting to sheeping to scumhunting well. Shin played crappy too, and was similarly new to the game, but he flipped town. I suppose I feel CR may be town after all, so while their play isn't entirely similar, I'll leave them grouped together. It should be noted that one of the first people to drive Shin was BBM, who also flipped town. As I feared, early reads were pretty much shit.

[Aleph]

##Unvote, ##Vote: SB so my vote will actually matter.

[Helios]

Baldrick can you vote pls we got like 4 hours.

D1:

I'll vote him for majority if SB can't get more votes, but I'm pretty sure he's town.

I wish people would stop throwing around the word "echoing" because it's a buzzword in SF Mafia and nobody has actually directly parroted the points of another player. It's not scummy to have the same opinion as somebody else!

I'm starting to feel like scorri is going out of her way to avoid wagons and coast. Late D1 she votes a non-target, D2 she votes a non-target again with no comments on the actual targets. She was also one of the people pushing a CR lynch for SK reasons.

Obviam needs to consolidate since I saw him on a bit earlier and the Helios lynch doesn't seem to be happening. I know you said you'd be down for SB lynch and you've disagreed with the Marf lynch for most of the game, so come help us actually lynch maf today please thanks.

We're not No Lynching, btw. Our lynch can hit scum. The scum nightkill can not hit scum (unless there's a driver, which we can't rely on).

Not really because BBM was gonna claim at that rate and he probably feared he'd look worse if BBM claimed town since he was already under a shit ton of pressure.

Do you think wanting to lynch a hypothetical SK with no proof that CR is an SK is scummy?

[Prims]

Scum like lynching SKs instead of their own numbers, so it makes me raise a few eyebrows. It's not extremely suspicious or anything, though, but given her general under-the-radar behavior I'm wary of scorri in general right now.

[Baldrick]

I vehemently object to being put in a group with Mancer.

##Unvote

##Vote: Marth His play has been a lot worse recently.

[Helios]

@Obviam: A couple things really.

• How am I contradicting myself again?
• You're mixing your MYLO talk up with Marth and I. I'm the one who's trying to explain that we're supposed to lynch scum, not a possible hypothetical zero proof maybe SK in CR. It seriously looks like trying to take advantage of the newbie which is something scum would do.
• I don't even think Baldrick has once agreed with me. He says he doesn't want to lynch Marth or SB, which are my two top scumreads. How is that agreeing with someone?
• Your Marth read is really wishy washy: You're agreeing with people calling Marth out for his shit, and yet you group him with yourself and j00 as the obvtown of the game. You haven't given a single reason as to why you think Marth is town; you just think that some of the people (like myself and Mancer) are bullshitting reasons to lynch him. Yet you acknowledge that the things he's being called out for are legit.
• What wisdom has scorri even dropped in her few moments in this game? Her case on JB is good, and she claimed redirect (which still makes no sense to me since how could scum even know scorri's role? i've faked redirected as scum, she could easily be doing the same thing I would) but that's it. She made a decent case on j00 but he claimed town!tracker so there's that.
• I'm 90% sure that your affiliation and Bizz's are different. Seeing as I'm 99% sure Straw/Bizz is town because they were incredibly obvtown, that means you're probably scum. Not to mention I'm town, so that's already two people in your scum group that are town. I doubt that you'd put 5 townies in a group though so that means one of those people at least is actually scum. Probably SB.
• Hey I'm glad you at least think I'm clever.

@Prims: Well I say this because Marth completely jumped on it when scorri said "lets lynch a possible SK!". I can't help but find it weird. I looked through her ISO and agree that she's played extremely lowkey so far. She pushed j00 who ended up claiming town, she tried the push on CR, and voted JB who we still don't really know about. Her play has seemed really safe so far which is usually what she does as scumri. Need a bit more content from her before I get a better read though.

[Prims]

I'm 90% sure that your affiliation and Bizz's are different. Seeing as I'm 99% sure Straw/Bizz is town because they were incredibly obvtown, that means you're probably scum.

Uhh this is total craplogic. I could see where you'd get "if one of Bizz/Obviam is scum the other is town", but it doesn't work the other way around because townies can argue with other townies.

I agree with you about Obviam townreading scorri though, which confuses me? Her content has been good but it's not -that- good and it's also pretty sparse.

[Shinori]

About 2 and a half hours left in phase.