Raven Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ok, you're reading this so you should know who Red is. Here's my beef. Ever since Gen 2, Pokemon Yellow's Red has been Game Freak's choice when it comes to choosing Red's Pokemon roster. That's all well and good when you consider that Yellow's Red obtains all three Gen 1 starter Pokemon, but really... Pikachu being part of his main party is his downfall. Yellow's Red is based off Ash in the anime, who also started with a Pikachu. But that's where the similarities end, thankfully. His Snorlax is undoubtedly one of the two that was blocking the paths in Kanto and his Lapras (missing/replaced in Gen 2 for Espeon, presumably the Eevee from Celadon City) was given to him by that worker in the Silph Co. building. Yes Ash also has a Snorlax and surfed all over the Orange Islands on a Lapras, but he didn't keep it. Anyway, why hasn't Red been based off Red from the games Red and Blue? I believe his team would have been a much better challenge had it not contained a Pikachu but instead contained one of the Gen 1 starters and five other Pokemon (Charizard/Venusaur/Blastoise, Snorlax, Espeon, Lapras, ... Tauros? Dragonite? Scizor? What?). However this doesn't cross out the fact he could have caught a wild Pikachu from Viridian Forest, either. Yet in this case, he has no reason not to evolve it, either. At any rate, I think Red is underpowered thanks to his Pikachu, and is probably not the best Pokemon Trainer because of this. I'm not thinking about the player characters from Gens 2 to 5 because they don't make any reappearances, while Red does. It's probably just a PR stunt to further satisfy oldschool players. So then, your thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Well shit his Pokemon are generally what, 7-10 levels higher than anyone else's bar Cynthia in Gen 4. And where is Res called godlike or anything of the like in the games anyway? As I recall, defeating the Elite Four gives you permission to access the areas such as Mt. Silver, where Red is coincidentally located. He's got the roster he has because it's simply basing it off of his Pre-Johto roster (which includes the Orange Islands, and thus, Lapras. Either that, or to simply include 6 of Ash's known team based on the Kanto Pokedex). It's a marketing tactic, to act as a tribute to original generations. Sure it's outdated, but the fact is that Red is a trainer of mixed skill, and is based off of a trainer who has been immortalized in a specific slot of time. Heck, the only league he ever won was the Orange League. So they chose to immortalized a winner as Red And yea his team is underpowered, but look at Red's derived character and how he performs. Pikachu is obviously his headliner, literally defeating Darkrai and Latios (Latias?), among being notably involved in countless other victories. If you recall, The reason his Pikachu wasn't evolved was due to his need for enhanced speed and move set, as indicated by Brock back when Ash defeated Surge for the Thunder Badge. And lets get even more technical. He ditched Charizard and Lapras, and hasn't seen Snorlax or the other starters in how long? Edited January 11, 2013 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 It's true that Red having a Pikachu has to do with Ash (even his Gen IV moveset is the moveset of Ash's Pikachu pre-Unova), but I wouldn't say that being a Pikachu makes it weaker, or at least not by that much. Statistically, with the Light Ball Pikachu can actually end up with higher Attack and Special Attack than Raichu. Of course, the other stats will be lower due to lack of evolution, so it's really more of a toss-up on what you consider better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ever since Gen 2, Pokemon Yellow's Red has been Game Freak's choice when it comes to choosing Red's Pokemon roster. I don't think this is necessarily the case. It could be that they just want to avoid deciding on a "canonical" starter for Red and instead choose to give him all Pokemon he could possibly start with in Gen 1 (in the final stage that they could reach in the respective game). One could argue that this is supported by Blue not having one of Venusaur/Charizard/Blastoise/Eeveelution (if this was strictly based on Yellow, Blue should have the last one at least). They did the same thing with Cheren and Bianca in BW2 btw where, without memory link, Cheren uses none of the starters and Bianca has all of them in some instances. To make this at least somewhat on-topic... Red is stronger than Blue and Lance according to GSC/HGSS, Steven is above Wallace in RSE and N beat Alder in BW and has a higher leveled team in BW2; that should leave us with one of Red, Steven, Cynthia and N. Given that Red has like a ten level lead on the others in their respective latest non-PWT appearance, I'm guessing he's still supposed to be the strongest of the bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 This one is hard for me. I mean Red is what I consider a secret boss because his team is so dang overleveled compared to when I usually get there. But as a team goes, its actually pretty poor. The starters each have the elemental hyper beams, Lapras is pathetic, and anything with EQ will take down Pika. He's a good trainer in the games, but not the best. I consider the best to be Cynthia. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Red is technically the Champion of Johto and Kanto, albeit retired. I think he would still be the Champion had he not decided to give up his position to Lance. Ash is but a shadow of Red. After all, wouldn't the anime be boring and predictable if Ash was da best and nothing at all could match him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 And considering Red is mute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 And considering Red is mute. Blue thinks otherwise - calling Red a "chatty gossip" in FRLG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I always thought that was just Blue being a dick as per usual Kaoz summed it up pretty well imhotep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Starwind Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I hacked Crystal Version and gave Red the Pokemon I actually used in Blue Version with the same moveset and levels. It felt more satisfying than normal Red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Pikachu isn't just Ash's Pokemon, it's the mascot for the series, they can't get rid of it just like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtSmilies Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 His team is godawful, so no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinderSkye Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Red's only a badass memetically. The adventures manga is just as terrible as the anime, it just takes itself seriously about it. I am okay with him having a team full of mascots. And Cynthia remains the hardest Champion I've encountered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Red is definitely easier than Steven, Cynthia and BW2 N. He's simply the Kanto champ who never wanted to actually become a part of the E4. Though I still think he's harder than Alder. Light Ball Pikachu with Volt Tackle could 1 or 2HKO most of my team in HG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I think they market him to be the best, but he's nor nearly as challenging as other champions like Cynthia, Emerald!Steven, ChallengeMode!Iris and BW2!N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanoir Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Welll, Cynthia is obviously the strongest trainer with N, but Pikachu IS better than Raichu, for Red. Pikachu is a glass cannon lead whose goal is to sucide utself against one od your pokemon with its Volt Tackle. And in HG/SS you fight him in perpetual hail, which makes its Lapras absolutely deadly. Besides, it must have all the starters. The only choice of Pokemon is then the last two. Besides, he's more of a legend than anything. Like the Black/White Hero/Heroine. He's a legacy character more than anything. And he's still pretty strong in the PWT, thanks to its varied team who knows pretty strong moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeraldfox Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't think he's the best, in fact I don't know who really is the best. But I'll say Iris because I like Iris. On the topic at hand, I think he's overrated by the folks who read Adventures. His team isn't all that great as others have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharne Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Cynthia has Garchomp soooo i don't really know why we are discussing that. (And TogeHaxx too OhGod...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobiki Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hard to choose but I said yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merun Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) In what? The games? The manga? As an NPC? In terms of actual skill or in-game strength? Obviously the player would be the most powerful trainer, NPCs do have their limits. N has a pretty decent team when you fight him in BW2, and the AI in the later games is a lot better. He does make use of a weather team and his Pokemon's levels are around Red's. I've never gotten around to battling him because I got burnt out of Pokemans before I got around to fighting him so I wouldn't know how difficult he is though. I don't know. I chose yes because he is fairly significant. He's one of the strongest trainers in the series as an NPC. Edited August 1, 2013 by loser-kun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Barry's highest level team (His starter reaches 85, only 3 less than Pikachu) is way better than Red's so no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shengar Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Gameplay-wise, Red is PikachuLocked. No matter how much its EVs and IVs tweaked to get the best max stats, Pikachu base stat is still subpar compared to other fullfledged Pokemon with similar role. Also much of his Pokemon shared same weakness together. Not too mention Shedinja could pretty much wreck half of the team since his Pokemon have poor move distribution. Story wise? Heck yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 When I fought him in GSC, frankly the most threatening pokemon on his team is Blastoise and Charizard Everything else is either a total joke(Pikachu, Espeon, Venusaur), or I have a pokemon specifically made to counter it(Snorlax) Even then, Blastoise and Charizard can be easilly defeated if I have a Water Type >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 story-wise i'd put red at the top just because RED gameplay-wise red is pretty easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungXehanort Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Red was easy to beat in Crystal, I beat him with 5 Level 55-60 pokemon. In the remakes he is tougher to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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