Void Mafia - Game Over

[BBM]

GG Helios.

The setup was pretty interesting. My only complaint with it was the Werewolf and the Magus getting the chat set up for them. It made it quite literally impossible for the Void to get rid of the Magus. Werewolf isn't going to kill him, he has like 4x protection against the Void, and the town's wincon explicitly states that any parties other than Werewolves and Void don't have to be eliminated for them to win, meaning even if he'd claimed third and not town, lynching or vigging him would have been a waste.

I'm not saying Elie didn't play well, because he did, but the Magus and Werewolf being teamed up like that felt unfair to me as Cult. My two nickels, since we don't have pennies anymore ;_;.

[Paperblade]

More on that in postgame

[Xinnidy]

;/

[Helios]

How to kill off Cult 101

I think he (Rein) likes playing as cult...how funny would it be if he was the cult leader

My logic behind shooting Rein ladies and gentleman

[Shinori]

I'm kind of pissed at that.

Cam especially. LIKE REALLY ANNOYED AT YOU.

I told lucy lynch helios or cam before I died. I told her sho and rapier were both like probably 90% clear.

Instead you guys lynched both sho and rapier for stupid reasons. That was really stupid. Cam never told anyone important about his vest or gave it to anyone which is stupid. Because if he had told me that I would have told lucy to just straight up lynch helios no matter what before I died.

haenkjnherklgnaergmearlgnarekjngkaejrgnaerkjngjeakrgner.

I'm annoyed at those last few days played.

[CT075]

i gave my vest to eclipse on the night she died

[Xinnidy]

Final thoughts on the gayme

[01:26:19] Xinny: fuck void

[01:26:22] Xinny: and fuck sho

[01:26:25] Xinny: but mostly void

[01:27:18] Xinny: also fuck helios but doop

Boron knows most about my sho rage .

[Baldrick]

It's too bad for both of us that we realised that too late.

[Percivalé]

why couldn't you just have made helios sk instead of mafia. i mean he was basically sk. that would have made this game 100% better

[Baldrick]

Then town would've won N2.

[Paperblade]

why couldn't you just have made helios sk instead of mafia. i mean he was basically sk. that would have made this game 100% better

He was SK, the HQ sheet has him in SK colors.

[Sunwoo]

A SK by any other name is still a SK.

[Percivalé]

beautiful. a+ game

[MancerNecro]

Why did you lynch me, town?

I already said I didn't have any items =.=...

And when Helios claimed (did he?), no one mentioned my role vs his are both item-manipulating roles and thus he should be lynched?

That's all I can remember of this horrendously long game atm.

[Paperblade]

Also priorities for some stuff

Action Screwing:

Rod of Transparency (Safeguard)

Void Empowerment Hook

Wand of Illusion (Anti-martyr)

Guard (Lionel)

Item Related:

Using Items

Item Check/Cop (Reyes)

Trader (Mila)

Inventor (Ezekiel)

Passing Items

Kills:

Werewolf Kill (Sullivan)

Vigilante Kill (Fintan)

Some notes I wrote while still making the setup (posted in my PM with Kaoz on July 7 last year)

The idea for this game came a bit after Carnival Phantasm ended, and I was annoyed at how Harmless Neutrals were handled. And by that I mean Harmless Neutrals suck and tend to be done poorly. This is a result of the fact that they usually play their own game and just help out whoever is winning because "their own game" usually involves some trivial task like "don't die when no one wants you dead." On top of that they oftentimes have ways of influencing the game (for example, in Carnival Phantasm they had kills even which could easily screw over the town if they were too reckless with them, and really why not be a bit reckless because who cares about the town?).

I guess first I should define a Harmless Neutral and what makes them different from a Harmful Neutral. A Neutral is any role that is aligned with neither the Town nor Mafia for whatever reason (so this does not include a role like Traitor or Usurper since they are technically Mafia). Examples include Survivor and Wolf. A Harmful Neutral is a role whose victory condition is mutually exclusive with both the town's and the mafia's. This means things like Cult and Serial Killer, and depending on the host other things as well.

So, what is the problem with Harmless Neutrals? Their win condition is too easy. If the game is close, they often become kingmakers and choose who wins (see: Itemafia). If the game is not close, they exacerbate the issue by siding with the winning team (see: Prince of Tennis Mafia). So what WAS difficult? "Maybe their goal is to kill the harmful neutral in the game." Well, that's good. So I made the harmful neutral a cult, since I love cults.

Now, you could argue that by making the mafia just a wolf that the Magus became a townie who needed to survive to win. So, there were a couple mechanisms to stop that. First, the Werewolf couldn't be consumed. This made him the only person the Magus could truly trust to be on his side for most of the game since by the time he had researched enough to make anti-recruit vests his potential targets may have already been consumed etc.

Second, I put them into contact right away. Having a guy going "Hey mafia pls contact I promise I won't out you" tends to get a sarcastic remark in the mafia PM at best. This meant the Magus wouldn't immediately turn to the Citizens to start, which made up a vast majority of the starting players (something like 84%). This meant he could both get help from the Citizens pretty much the same if he so desired, but could also get help from the Werewolf. The Werewolf offered trust and stability in that he was guaranteed to not be cult, but the Citizens offered the power of their large numbers and roles gave.

At some point, I decided that if I wanted to make an interesting cult, they would have to replace the mafia as the primary antagonist (which perhaps defeats the point of the Magus being a "harmless neutral"). The idea of the game having no mafia but the players believing there to be one is inspired by a Smogon game called Flow Mafia (flow being Wolf backwards), and I decided to even hijack the stupid naming gag by making it possible for the title to be interpreted as "Vacant Mafia" or something similar.

So, let's talk about the roles a bit.

Since this was an OC game and SF is generally pretty terrible at OC, I wanted to include some roles to get people talking about useful things. Thus, I included all the vanilla roles (sans Ridley), who had items that were not really that useful to them alone. The Shield was a BPV and better suited to a PR and not a vanilla, as was the Invisibility Potion. The Crossbow Bolt was similarly desired by a power role, but a specific one. The alchemy items (Sulphur, Salt, Mercury) were supposed to find each other, which worked out pretty well.

The rest of the roles were added because they could find scum, but not do so in an "oops I won" way like a fullcop. Reyes would not work on Sullivan at any point, and would not be able to find Arianne until N1 at the earliest, meaning she would have a backup unless she managed to run into 2 out of Sullivan, Ezekiel, and Isabel being protected consecutively (which is something like a 2% chance assuming there was a D1 town lynch and the cult leader had no information). Varg could find cult recruits, but not the werewolf or cult leader (unless by some miracle he was in tandem with Mila). Ciel could find Sullivan having items he shouldn't, and the Princess/Guard pair could only confirm each other (and even then there was a real downside to outing). Credit to Kaoz for the Beloved Princess+Guard combination, by the way.

Fintan's role was based off of the Vigilante combo item from Itemafia, plus there's probably been roles like this elsewhere that I forgot about but played in/read. Vigilante is a strong role, and it's provable and obvtown anyway so giving it items that certainly exist to prove it exists doesn't really influence balance all that much (whereas, say, a BP that needs an item a random guy holds to work would be more interesting).

The last two roles were Desmond and Quinton, which are sort of miscellaneous. Desmond was the obvious combo with the Invisibility Potion since it made him an actual jailer (ps Kidnappers that hook are dumb, the difference between a kidnap and a silence is that kidnappers stop day actions/lynches and if the host is a real asshole they don't announce the silence). Quinton is because I like Universal Backups since they are a PR that doesn't really do anything PR worthy (they are suspicious claims, are reliant on the strength of the rest of the roles in the game) and thus is good for smoothing out balance (unlucky nightkills on PRs can be amended a bit). Also the flavor is amazing.

Sullivan's role is fairly self explanatory: Magus contact was explained before, Scavenger gives him a fakeclaim+some more item control, mole to stop "HEY GUYS I FOUND A MAFIA" "WOAH NELLY," and inspect for some info (also it gave him a weakness to the Tracker to pierce his safeclaim).

Arianne was a fairly standard cult, with some extra power on her recruits since there was no mafia and to stop accidental N1 town wins (yes this was possible before the backup).

Ezekiel by himself was helpless vs. the Void, and was thus reliant on the other factions to do his dirty work for him. His inventions were useful for both teams, and he could use town's vast numbers or the Werewolf's power to find the cult, both if he played his cards right.

Also, for the none of you that care, I stopped doing flavor (and sort of half-assed what I did do) because I got paranoid that people would start reading into it even after I asked them not to.

Player stuff coming up Soon (probably tomorrow)

[Shinori]

Why did you lynch me, town?

I already said I didn't have any items =.=...

And when Helios claimed (did he?), no one mentioned my role vs his are both item-manipulating roles and thus he should be lynched?

That's all I can remember of this horrendously long game atm.

I brought this up with a few people actually. As I said on the previous page and in IRC and in skype. I told lucy to lynch either helios or cam.

Helios was getting lynched then everyone was like randomly swap to rapier for no reason what-so-ever.

[charlie_]

everything makes sense afterwards

although really I through the game switching to the Rapier lynch, sorry guys >.>

[Sunwoo]

I brought this up with a few people actually. As I said on the previous page and in IRC and in skype. I told lucy to lynch either helios or cam.

Helios was getting lynched then everyone was like randomly swap to rapier for no reason what-so-ever.

There is some force that prevents town from lynching Helios easily when he is scum. This same force also makes Helios claim bodyguard in nearly every game where he is scum.

[eclipse]

I blame everyone else for this, as I was dead by that point. Also, town apathy didn't help in the least. Kinda wish Core was modkilled for being inactive.

Edited February 7, 2013 by eclipse

[charlie_]

I enjoyed the earlier stages of the game, but by the time Xinnori died activity just plummeted.

[eclipse]

Uh, guys. . .

If Helios appears as "unknown", then why did you guys tell me that he visited no one?

[Paperblade]

[00:06] <Paperblade> he was intended to be a ninja

[00:06] <Paperblade> it's worded awkwardly

[00:06] <clipseykitty> ;/

[00:06] <Paperblade> he showed up as unknown on a watcher report from Elieson's item

[00:06] <Paperblade> but the kill wouldn't be tracked

[00:07] <clipseykitty> So if he can't be found by tracker/watcher, then were we supposed to rely on our wonderful scumhunting?

[00:09] <Paperblade> yes

[00:09] <Paperblade> also his inspect could be tracked

[00:09] <Paperblade> it's just the town decided to tell him all their roles so he didn't use his inspect

[00:09] <clipseykitty> Lame.

[00:09] <clipseykitty> I blame everyone else.

[00:09] <clipseykitty> Since I tracked the right person, for once.

[00:09] <Paperblade> also Baldrick/Mancer could find items on him that he shouldn't have had

[00:10] <clipseykitty> Hmmm. . .that's a fair point.

[00:10] <clipseykitty> So I have no objections to that.

[Paperblade]

Oh I forgot to talk about Ridley.

Ridley was a "miller" in that the role could not be proven by the cop (in early design Arianne had a similar item and Sullivan had the third alchemy component, but I figured that having 2 unpassable items was too obvious and changed it, giving Sullivan the moling abilities). I honestly didn't expect it to troll as hard as it did. Also apologies to Core who specifically asked if he was a miller, I couldn't say so since it would give away Baldrick's role.

player thoughts in order they are in the sheet

Shinori: You did good but if you are in a position where you are clear you need to be less controlling, it's bad mojo.

Paulina: Don't claim Doc to everyone that asks

Roxie: The move with BBM was good (although I think it was his idea). Also, I think it was unnecessary for you and Shinori to both claim

Baldrick: gg get lynched as cop. You did good to check BBM's item when he claimed (although I don't recall if it was your idea).

Loocy: Don't make people lynchproof going into 2/1 lylo.

13th/eclipse: 13th be more active. Also, when people say "claimtome" that doesn't mean do it in the IRC channel. eclipse did fine but died like immediately.

Mancer: Did fine but got into a 1v1 with Core because apparently item cannot be moved doesn't include his role fsr.

scorri: You did good but got screwed over by cult recruitment.

Rapier: Your skypechat with Sho and Rein sounded a bit too much like a mafia team at times, you guys were way too complacent with who was being lynched.

Bluedoom: You had good reads and did well getting your item around.

Sho: You scumhunted well but got misled but BBM's vig fakeclaim too easily. The logic on why he and Rapier weren't scum after Rein flipped was pretty good too (I would be severely increasing the chances of an early cult leader death), although extending it to Rein seems iffy.

Delirium: I'm sorry, I didn't expect that role to troll as hard as it did, and I feel like that had a part in your inactivity.

CT075: First, be more bloody active. Second, there was no reason to hold onto the Shield. Even if you were going to tell people you didn't trust you were BPV, there was absolutely no reason to not give the Shield to Shinori or Roxinnidy after BBM bit the dust. I don't want to say you singlehandedly lost the game (since Shinori really wanted to lynch Helios badly then died), but it certainly didn't help, since no one trusted you for your inconsistent claiming, giving Helios no reason to shoot you.

SB: You did fine but sort of sheeped along and became inactive.

BBM: You played fine as town but I really disliked your gambit after you were culted. If you were going to do that, you should have passed away your Bolt first so that item checks (of which the town effectively had 2) would not catch you. You were able to BS your way out of getting caught, but then died for claiming Vig.

Kay: Kay was inactive on weekends like she always is and was lynched for it without even having a chance to claim, because this will never get old.

Overall: D1-3 lynches: Voyeur, Item Check/Cop, Trader - Dear SF Mafia, please stop lynching your info roles. You need those.

Additionally, a lot of people were waaaaaaaay too open about their roles. There are other things to discuss, and some things that can be seen as useless/scummy to talk about (such as numbers) can be useful to discuss in OC, since it means scum have to give answers with less of an idea of what the town thinks to just blend in. Also, don't claim to people that have alternate wincons, you have no guarantee they are going to help you.

Helios: Everyone Helios talked to early in the game died, and none of them by his hand. I don't really agree with outing to Elieson, since it could have been that he would sell you out to gain favor with the town (although I don't think that SF is cutthroat enough to do that, and that's generally a bad practice for metagame purposes, not that SF plays enough games like this to matter).

Strider: You did well then got nightkilled because you were too trusted and because Helios thought it would be funny if you actually were cult. The alchemist thing was a bit odd since lying about it then suddenly deciding you had it could be seen as scummy, but you managed to pull it off I suppose.

Elieson: Elieson did well (although I do not recommend trying to lead towns as neutrals). I don't recall if I told you this, but trying to sell out Helios right before you won was a dick move, which afaik was only stopped because the person you were giving the info to was cult and died that night. He hadn't done anything to jeopardize your position and was basically totally loyal. Note that this is different than if he'd claimed to you N0 and you'd immediately turned him in. One is furthering your game plan (getting the town to believe that you are Not Mafia), the other is screwing over factions because you feel like it.

[Paulina]

In other words, Helios the Werewolf and Elieson the Magus win.

Congratulations, Helios. ^^ I almost can't believe you made it through. You pulled so many amazing maneuvers this time around. Legitimately GG.

Sigh. By this point, I doubt anyone in post remembers who I am. I was your neighborhood doctor for all of two days. ._. Sigh. Wish us cultees could've made it a little farther.

Paulina: Don't claim Doc to everyone that asks

Hm? I was culted N1 because I was the only person whose roleclaim Rein and BBM had not received. They thought I hadn't talked to many people and would be easy to transition. And in reality, I had only claimed to Helios (^^") and Scorri. I was trying to keep my PR on the downlow.

By the way Paper, why did you choose a first-timer as doc? I'm still a little shocked I received that role.

[eclipse]

No, you do not randomly claim to anyone on N0. Period.