What will NoA do about Nowi?

[Iridium]

No, Fa showed that Dragons do in fact have the same maturity as their appearance would suggest.

Question.

If this is the case, why is it that Myrrh is probably one of the most mature characters in the Sacred Stones?

[Galenforcer]

Can't people just not mention Nowi at all? It always resolves into an entire argument of everyone hating her for being the x000 year old loli.

[Just call me AL]

There is another saying: "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.". And quite frankly: Since it was announced, this game has quacked a lot.

And yet it seems like that you're the only person who hates it simply because of how the characters look, and not how well they come across, or how hidden their depths are, or how the general story is. It's okay to not like something, but don't you think it's blatantly irrational to express intense dislike at every single opportunity to have?

Do you really think that Nowi's wardrobe serves a meaningful purpose to the games narrative? Really? Besides pandering to the worst aspects of the Otaku subculture and a few cheap jokes?

Nobody is saying that Nowi's clothing choice is justified. Not many video game characters' clothing choices are. But giving the game designers the benefit of the doubt is the least you could do here. And who knows, you might just be surprised if you do.

And Nono's personality is that she really does act like a child.

Echoing Onestep's sentiments here: Acting like a child obviously isn't the same thing as being a child. Especially since her dialogue suggests that she's more wise than she lets on. What's so difficult to get about that? Besides, Nowi's not the first character to do this overall, and she won't be the last either.

I'm sorry but I fail to see any redeeming factors with her.

If you really want to, you can shrug it of by calling it a cover, whatever. But even that doesn't change the fact that said cover just so happens to be disgusting.

You only fail to see any redeeming qualities because you're not looking hard enough. Even the ugliest of covers can contain the most engaging of stories. I'm not implying that Nowi's story is engaging in particular, but don't you think that the fact that some people actually like Nowi means that there's more to her than meets the eye? The same can be said for any character, even those outside of FE. Don't like certain characters in spite of how they are personality wise, fine. I'm just saying that expressing dislike at every opportunity isn't the wisest of actions here.

[Eberict]

Just going to slide in here to say that, when I was in college, I knew a girl who looked like she was twelve, sounded like she was twelve, and acted like she was twelve, but was really twenty-three. Now, I was in no way attracted to her--she was kind of grating--but I knew people who were and, while that seemed borderline, it also kind of wasn't because she was very much an adult in age.

When I see characters like Nowi/Nono who are non-human immortal fairies with hundreds of years of age behind them and when I see people bring up issues like these, I just remember this experience.

Now, if you want to talk about the media literacy angle of it and its status as a social construction... that's a whole different story.

[BrightBow]

And that's the key word. Where it matters, she shows key signs of maturity. She knows to put others needs before her own, tells people when they're pushing themselves too hard and recognises emotions like romantic love.Contrast Nn, who despite appearing more emotionally mature, is actually far less mature overall. Nono's an adult who's living like a child because she enjoys it, while Nn's more of a child acting like an adult because she thinks she has to.

Hey, that sounds great. That actually sounds like a very good concept. It's just to bad that stuff like this is wrapped up in such an disgusting package.

Ribbons and hearts are stereotypical childish and girly. Lingerie? Not so much.

Question.

If this is the case, why is it that Myrrh is probably one of the most mature characters in the Sacred Stones?

She does to you? I have to say, she never really comes across more then a little girl to me. A melancholic, lonely and dark little girl who doesn't want or dare to burden anyone with her troubles but a little girl nonetheless.

Granted, it doesn't show all that much because she is so reserved and formal but it showed when she tried to become family with Ephrahim.

Edited January 26, 2013 by BrightBow

[Onestep]

Hey, that sounds great. That actually sounds like a very good concept. It's just to bad that stuff like this is wrapped up in such an disgusting package.

I'm actually going to say something that might surprise you. I genuinely agree with you on some aspects of Nono's appearance. I don't have any problems with her being a loli, or her being able to get married or any of that jazz. I do question why the art team felt the need to have her go around wearing a bra and hotpants though. I really do.

[Delicious Yogurt]

I'm actually going to say something that might surprise you. I genuinely agree with you on some aspects of Nono's appearance. I don't have any problems with her being a loli, or her being able to get married or any of that jazz. I do question why the art team felt the need to have her go around wearing a bra and hotpants though. I really do.

It gets more befuddling to me when I see Tiki wearing at least somewhat sensible clothes, so it's not like they can play some sort of Manakete culture card. They seem to have Nowi the way she is for the hell of it. I'll wait for her dialogue before I go judging her character, but I see her design as pretty much unsalvagable.

[Onestep]

It gets more befuddling to me when I see Tiki wearing at least somewhat sensible clothes, so it's not like they can play some sort of Manakete culture card. They seem to have Nowi the way she is for the hell of it. I'll wait for her dialogue before I go judging her character, but I see her design as pretty much unsalvagable.

Well, Naga wears some pretty extreme clothing. Seriously, just look at it. And I believe a Manakete Morgan wears what Nono does. And while Tiki's gear is just about OK, the dress she wore when she young had a ludicrously high cut.

So they do seem to be going for a 'Female Manakete's wear somewhat revealing clothing' thing. I'm not sure if I like it, but I can see where they're going.

[Just call me AL]

Well, Naga wears some pretty extreme clothing. Seriously, just look at it. And I believe a Manakete Morgan wears what Nono does. And while Tiki's gear is just about OK, the dress she wore when she young had a ludicrously high cut.

So they do seem to be going for a 'Female Manakete's wear somewhat revealing clothing' thing. I'm not sure if I like it, but I can see where they're going.

Here's hoping that this is going to be an exclusively Ylissian/Valmese thing. (Though I will add that Nah is another exception when it comes to FE13 Manaketes.) I certainly wouldn't want to see characters like Ninian and Idun dressed up like Nowi.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Little Al

[Zarb]

I have no major problems with Nowi. Sure, I'm not a huge fan of her outfit. But I'm also not a huge fan of Donnel, Kellam, or Tharja's respective outfits. But that's not going to stop me from using them if I want.

I don't know much about Nowi. But I do know she's really really old. I can't imagine she's lived that long without seeing some pretty horrid stuff.

Where I come from, if someone's lived longer than 100 years (And can turn into a dragon) they're allowed to dress and act however they want.

Also, I hope they don't change her any. It amuses me to watch people complain about her.

[BrightBow]

Well, Naga wears some pretty extreme clothing. Seriously, just look at it. And I believe a Manakete Morgan wears what Nono does. And while Tiki's gear is just about OK, the dress she wore when she young had a ludicrously high cut.

So they do seem to be going for a 'Female Manakete's wear somewhat revealing clothing' thing. I'm not sure if I like it, but I can see where they're going.

Well, back in the NES games, there was at least a reason for Tiki's design.

At least I would say that I've read enough Asterix comics (and took a few Latin classes) to tell that the designs were intended to resemble ancient Rome or Greek or whatever.

And naked legs come with the territory there. Unless it involves toga's going all the way down to the feet. It wasn't done for mere sex appeal. Heck, before he got pants and threw away his sandals, Marth's robe was probably even shorter then Tiki's.

Edited January 26, 2013 by BrightBow

[Momo]

The character dynamic between her and Nn sounds interesting, but there's really no way to go about this other than completely rewriting things. Pairing grown men (or even children) with a child is just too fucked up. As for how fucked up it gets:

Nono: ...Family? Ronku, you want to be Nono's daddy?

Ronku: No! I want to be Nono's husband.

Yeah, I don't want to be anywhere near supports like that. Also, for anyone that's playing the "it's manakete fashion to wear nothing", remember that real human beings designed them in the first place, not the other way around.

[Onestep]

Well, back in the NES games, there was at least a reason for Tiki's design.

At least I would say that I've read enough Asterix comics (and took a few Latin classes) to tell that the designs were intended to resemble ancient Rome or Greek or whatever.

And naked legs come with the territory there. Unless it involves toga's going all the way down to the feet. It wasn't done for mere sex appeal. Heck, before he got pants and threw away his sandals, Marth's robe was probably even shorter then Tiki's.

Yeah, but Tiki still has a short dress, even in Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, when the character designs as a whole have moved away from the possible Roman/Greek theme they had going.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Onestep

[HakureiIllusion]

I'd just like to say that, despite keeping up with all the official news on this game, I failed to even notice how revealing Nono's clothes were until this argument began.

[Kyneme]

You know there are worse things portrayed on television (even right now as a matter of fact), and you want to spend your time arguing about how distasteful Nowi's character is? Really? Is her very existence keeping you from your way of life? No? Okay. And are you required to marry and/or do any supports with her? No as well? Oh well considering she's not being shoved down anyone's throats as a requirement in order to enjoy the game, I'm not seeing a reason as to why it's being made into a bigger deal than what it is. She's an archetype of sorts. Oh well. Get over it.

[BlueLeafeon]

I love how this dispute has gone four pages, and nothing has been resolved. ^^;

I agree with Kyneme.

</statementtomakethispostrelevant>

[Strunk]

Why do you think this discussion matters? We've all been over this, countless times, and nobody has had their opinions change because of it. Nobody will. Either hate the character for your own personal reasons, be attracted to the character for your own personal reasons, or just leave the whole idiotic discussion alone already. It's been a year, for god's sake. What the hell's the point?

[Onestep]

Why do you think this discussion matters? We've all been over this, countless times, and nobody has had their opinions change because of it. Nobody will. Either hate the character for your own personal reasons, be attracted to the character for your own personal reasons, or just leave the whole idiotic discussion alone already. It's been a year, for god's sake. What the hell's the point?

This, pretty much. I don't think I've seen anybody change their opinions on a character yet.

[Momo]

The topic probably could've waited until the game was released, and we saw what they did with her at least.

[Lauren]

Yes, I can understand that nobody wants to talk about her.

Because nobody wants to face the fact that their favorite game contains on of the most disgusting characters to ever appear in a mainstream video game.

And the accompanying reality that including such characters in games is not okay.

That just ignoring these kind of characters is not okay.

And that approving of those things by giving money to the company that does think that those things are okay, is NOT okay.

But hey, that's not the reason right? It's just because we already had that discussion... not last month though. I think I would know that.

But praising the game that turns little kids into sex objects is of course something you can do every day of the week and 24 hours a day.

This is excellent. Very well-said!

[Iridium]

She does to you? I have to say, she never really comes across more then a little girl to me. A melancholic, lonely and dark little girl who doesn't want or dare to burden anyone with her troubles but a little girl nonetheless.

Granted, it doesn't show all that much because she is so reserved and formal but it showed when she tried to become family with Ephrahim.

I can forgive her supports with Ephraim. Understand that she's spent her entire life more or less alone. The only friends she has are her adoptive father - who is dead, and she could potentially have killed if you're a monster of a tactician - and Saleh, who constantly treats her as something to be exalted, which she doesn't even want. She wants to be treated like a normal person, but she already knows - and accepts - that this is an impossibility, because she's neither human nor monster. And her contributions to the army - she is sensible enough not put herself in danger when she feels that she would only be a liability, but is willing to join when the world is on the line and her powers could be of assistance - as well, she puts the good of the army over herself, and if she falls in battle, she dies without regret for herself - only concerned that she can't help them anymore. And she is respectful to everyone in the army she meets, even Dozla, without being too hero-worshipping of anyone like Franz->Seth or Ross->Garcia.

Other characters have very glaring flaws that make them immature. For Innes, his desire for perfection. For Joshua and Tana, putting their kingdoms at risk for sake of adventure. Likewise, other characters seem to live in a sort of bubble that makes them unable to see the real world - L'Arachel is most pronounced, but Eirika also is an idealist who does anything to get out of fighting, up to and including handing over a sacred stone to the person you're trying to stop with them. Myrrh sees the world for what it is, far more than any other character in the army - not all humans are benevolent, not all monsters are evil, and not all deaths are avoidable - and endures it with aplomb. Myrrh's flaw is that she's never had anyone she could trust... not by choice, like Marisa, but by her very heritage. Her supports with Ephraim are pretty fair in that context.

[melossage]

what to do about nowi?

marry her off to ricken and make it look a bit more normal

[Lord Raven]

^ thats what ive generally always done

[Zera]

Aren't the children in this game from the future or something, when Nowi would be significantly older?

If the answer is yes, then my only concern about Nowi is why NOA changed her name from Nono.

[Mysterique Sign]

The current topic of conversation is stupid so I'm changing it

If the Battle of Barhara was 16 years ago then how is Corpul only 10 years old?