FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[Legault!]

Panne getting the second seal before Donnel is definitely better honestly, but considering Sorcerer!Avatar breaks Awakening's spine, these priority arguments are silly.

Where exactly does Inui want Donnel to end up? I might have missed it.

EDIT: Everyone wants Arms Scrolls. Everyone. Chrom wants it for Javelins, Falcon Knights want it for staff utility, Lissa and Mariabelle want it for tomes, etc.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Legault!

[Lord Raven]

Avatar likes the Master Seal I thought b/c Rally Spectrum is a good utility skill (and s/he can pass it onto a child too, and get levels so quickly that they will have Rally Spectrum by the teen chapters).

I sitll don't understand Inui's argument. he says Donnel/Tharja/Henry make this game so easy, but he also says Avatar shitstomps the game. Which is why it's not hard to see why his argument shows that those three units are redundant regardless of anything. Especially because Avatar has everything including Veteran available.

[Legault!]

Avatar likes the Master Seal I thought b/c Rally Spectrum is a good utility skill (and s/he can pass it onto a child too, and get levels so quickly that they will have Rally Spectrum by the teen chapters).

Rally Spectrum is a cool skill, but 10/15 is still a long ways to go even for a Veteran unit. Nosferatu destroys Rally Spectrum. Who cares about children.

[Florete]

Plenty of enemies in Hard have beast-slaying weapons and Sully!Chrom simply can't tank entire armies. They can blitz (by which I mean move quickly) around the map, but won't get the same level of combat exposure as Tharja!Literally Anyone.

I don't have exact numbers, but I've not found beast-slaying nearly so common in this game. Ch 12 has like 3 of them and then the rest of the maps are lucky to have one.

Chrom honestly wants FeMU or Sumia before Sully, but assuming Chrom!Sully S-Rank at the beginning of Chapter 12, consider Tharja gets infinite Nosferatu access at the beginning of Chapter 14 and will likely have a B-support by this point.

Avatar I agree on, but why Sumia? She offers nothing special in comparison and is a worse unit to boot. The only real advantage I can see is some late game Galeforcing, but somehow I don't think that was your intention.

Tharja having infinite Nosferatu may keep her alive, but it doesn't kill enemies. I'd rather have a unit with a 96% chance of survival and 95% kill rate than a unit with 100% survival and something like 70% kill rate.

[Blademaster!]

It's not long. Please stop. He only needs to get to level 10 to become a Hero, and because his base level is 1 with the stats of a 20/0 unit, he will reach that level 10 Mercenary status in no time at all. Give Donny an Arms Scroll since nobody else really cares about them, and then he's got like C swords and D axes.

So by what chapter is he reaching this C swords D axes then? If he can't do it by chapter 11, let alone chapter 12, then the argument is over and he doesn't even deserve to go above Nowi.

[Inui]

I've played the game and it's easy before they even tried out Donnel, Tharja, and Henry, so don't even go there lol I played an HM draft drafting Tharja and her hit problems were ridiculous because her growth is low and one of her avoid killing skills only applies to adjacent units. If you attack from 2-range, then that skill doesn't work anymore. If enemies attack from 2-range, that skill doesn't work anymore. Once again, she's not worth it because you get effectively the same amount of effort and the same speed (if not faster) of ending chapters without Tharja than with Tharja/Henry/Donnel alone. Tharja's not ineffective but she is not completely reliable.

You must have had bad luck. She was one-rounding stuff as soon as she joined in hard mode the one time I played it. Why not think to give her an Elwind tome? That shit has ridiculous Hit and guarantees her a kill on a Wyvern.

Also, to answer your question, yes Panne can do that.

How? Forged Rexcalibur = die in one hit. Forged silver bows, BOWS AND WIND IN GENERAL. She's not a tank because fliers are BAD in this game. Half of the enemies have flier slaying weapons and there are hardly any cases where being a flier is good. No terrain bonuses and not much terrain to fly over to begin with. GARBAGE.

I made a miscalc somewhere but stop being an ass when you post. And don't use "you have to be terrible to use Donnel" because you still haven't provided any actual reason as to why it's that easy to raise him. It's still very inconvenient and the other units you have trained up until that point are still about as effective as Donnel in the long term, without the pain-in-the-ass it takes to use Donnel. Once again, very minimal

Do I absolutely have to compare a level 1 Hero Donnel to like a 20/20 unit just to prove this wrong? Do I REALLY have to go through the trouble of MANUALLY doing all of the stats since average charts don't exist that I know of? Really? Seriously? You can't just look at his growths and be like "well, shit, he really does poop on every single character in the game after spending about 10 extra turns on him." The difference between costing 0 Gold, killing everything, and being unable to die vs not having any of these things at all is pretty big.

[cyron]

You must have had bad luck. She was one-rounding stuff as soon as she joined in hard mode the one time I played it. Why not think to give her an Elwind tome? That shit has ridiculous Hit and guarantees her a kill on a Wyvern.

How? Forged Rexcalibur = die in one hit. Forged silver bows, BOWS AND WIND IN GENERAL. She's not a tank because fliers are BAD in this game. Half of the enemies have flier slaying weapons and there are hardly any cases where being a flier is good. No terrain bonuses and not much terrain to fly over to begin with. GARBAGE.

Do I absolutely have to compare a level 1 Hero Donnel to like a 20/20 unit just to prove this wrong? Do I REALLY have to go through the trouble of MANUALLY doing all of the stats since average charts don't exist that I know of? Really? Seriously? You can't just look at his growths and be like "well, shit, he really does poop on every single character in the game after spending about 10 extra turns on him." The difference between costing 0 Gold, killing everything, and being unable to die vs not having any of these things at all is pretty big.

but the thing is on hm most units wont have issues killing things by th time donny is a hero but donny had to work ridiculously hard to reach a decent amount of power due to his shit bases

[Lord Raven]

You must have had bad luck. She was one-rounding stuff as soon as she joined in hard mode the one time I played it. Why not think to give her an Elwind tome? That shit has ridiculous Hit and guarantees her a kill on a Wyvern.

Because by the time Wyverns show up in that chapter, chapter's over. Wyvern's aren't the most common thing on this mode, and they tend to exist for very few chapters at a time. She's not horrible but she's also not broken. She has hit issues no matter which way you slice it, short of a wind tome which means she can't use Nosferatu lol

How? Forged Rexcalibur = die in one hit. Forged silver bows, BOWS AND WIND IN GENERAL. She's not a tank because fliers are BAD in this game. Half of the enemies have flier slaying weapons and there are hardly any cases where being a flier is good. No terrain bonuses and not much terrain to fly over to begin with. GARBAGE.

She gets +10 evade every other turn, has access to Tantivity and Quick Burn. That's +35 Evade, compounded by the potential of pairing up (since, unlike Tharja, pairing up with Panne is better because Panne performs better than most other units) can give her upwards of another >10 evade from stats and another 10-20 evade from support boosts. Compounded by her already good Speed and Luck and she can evade the hell out of everything in the mid/endgames. Bows aren't even that large a detriment to her, and Rallies here and there help her quite a bit too. Tharja doesn't have Panne's strong start to give you any reason to really use her other than "oh I can replicate this with many other units, it just so happens that I don't see green everytime most other units manage to land a hit."

Do I absolutely have to compare a level 1 Hero Donnel to like a 20/20 unit just to prove this wrong? Do I REALLY have to go through the trouble of MANUALLY doing all of the stats since average charts don't exist that I know of? Really? Seriously? You can't just look at his growths and be like "well, shit, he really does poop on every single character in the game after spending about 10 extra turns on him." The difference between costing 0 Gold, killing everything, and being unable to die vs not having any of these things at all is pretty big.

No because many, many other people have used units other than Donnel to trivialize hard mode. You said so yourself that Avatar breaks the game, Donnel shitstomping is irrelevant if Avatar is easy to use, grows extremely fast, and gets broken fast.

But you still haven't shown why it's that easy to start using him lol because once again he absolutely sucks until Level 10.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Lord Raven

[Inui]

Because by the time Wyverns show up in that chapter, chapter's over. Wyvern's aren't the most common thing on this mode, and they tend to exist for very few chapters at a time. She's not horrible but she's also not broken. She has hit issues no matter which way you slice it, short of a wind tome which means she can't use Nosferatu lol

Those hit "problems" (never experienced it myself, even in Lunatic) don't exist after she promotes to Sorcerer because she becomes largely an enemy phase unit which allows her to take advantage of Hex very often. She broke the game to point of me deleting my hard mode file out of boredom. There's no way in hell Panne can do such a thing because she only has access to bad classes.

She gets +10 evade every other turn, has access to Tantivity and Quick Burn. That's +35 Evade, compounded by the potential of pairing up (since, unlike Tharja, pairing up with Panne is better because Panne performs better than most other units) can give her upwards of another >10 evade from stats and another 10-20 evade from support boosts. Compounded by her already good Speed and Luck and she can evade the hell out of everything in the mid/endgames.

No. She has a chance of death in later chapters. Henry and Tharja don't. Literally 0% chance of death once they get rolling and can buy Nosferatu tomes, which is...well, you still have about 20 maps to go including Paralogues. Damn, quite a long time. You're arguing that having a chance of death is okay. What the hell happened to this place?

No because many, many other people have used units other than Donnel to trivialize hard mode. You said so yourself that Avatar breaks the game, Donnel shitstomping is irrelevant.

Panne shitstomping is irrelevant then too, isn't it? You're trying to trivialize units literally breaking the game to the point of your team being like Ivan Ooze where you can mindlessly do things and win because of 10 turns of extra effort wtf man... There's a line between being good and clearing chapters quickly and being so broken that you can mindlessly do whatever you want for 20 chapters, which Sorcerers and Heroes not only cross, but leap over.

But you still haven't shown why it's that easy to start using him lol because once again he absolutely sucks until Level 10.

I explained it enough. This is purely a matter of player skill and math. It's not hard to do math and see if you'll leave a unit at optimal HP for Donnel to get a kill and it doesn't cost any efficiency at all really to do this in most cases. I don't know what else to say.

Avatar likes the Master Seal I thought b/c Rally Spectrum is a good utility skill (and s/he can pass it onto a child too, and get levels so quickly that they will have Rally Spectrum by the teen chapters).

I sitll don't understand Inui's argument. he says Donnel/Tharja/Henry make this game so easy, but he also says Avatar shitstomps the game. Which is why it's not hard to see why his argument shows that those three units are redundant regardless of anything. Especially because Avatar has everything including Veteran available.

If Avatar shitstomps the game, then Panne being good doesn't matter either, does it? Just stop with this. Seriously.

Tharja having infinite Nosferatu may keep her alive, but it doesn't kill enemies. I'd rather have a unit with a 96% chance of survival and 95% kill rate than a unit with 100% survival and something like 70% kill rate.

What happened to good old days where a chance of death meant FAILURE? Are we suddenly in Casual Mode? Chance of death is a chance of death, something Panne faces BIG TIME thanks to all the flier killing weapons EVERYWHERE, and something Henry and Tharja don't care about because they just can't die. Dying means you have to restart the chapter. That's pretty awful. In the olde days, it meant GGS YOU FAILED YOUR SURVIVAL RANK. Even restarting in FE4 didn't save it iirc. Considering we're not n00bs, I assumed this was Classic Hard w/o letting units die. 4% chance of death on the enemy phase? No thanks.

So by what chapter is he reaching this C swords D axes then? If he can't do it by chapter 11, let alone chapter 12, then the argument is over and he doesn't even deserve to go above Nowi.

When does Tharja join? Right before that is generally where I found it to be easy and reasonable to have him become a Mercenary, then he can promote shortly after that, maybe two chapters after. Then once he promotes he's a god, and once he gets Sol he becomes Demonbane.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Inui

[Legault!]

We can debate Sully / Tharja later, since this might be closer than I expected. Tharja > Stahl should be a total no-brainer.

I'd also like responses from Inui for a) where Donnel should go, and b) why we're assuming Donnel gets Arms Scrolls when everyone wants them.

[Florete]

What happened to good old days where a chance of death meant FAILURE? Are we suddenly in Casual Mode? Chance of death is a chance of death, something Panne faces BIG TIME thanks to all the flier killing weapons EVERYWHERE, and something Henry and Tharja don't care about because they just can't die. Dying means you have to restart the chapter. That's pretty awful. In the olde days, it meant GGS YOU FAILED YOUR SURVIVAL RANK. Even restarting in FE4 didn't save it iirc. Considering we're not n00bs, I assumed this was Classic Hard w/o letting units die. 4% chance of death on the enemy phase? No thanks.

There was never a day where a minimal chance of death was the end of things. If a 4% chance of death saves us 5 turns, I'll take it. Chrom!Sully doesn't even really have that if you've got a Physic user like Libra or are willing to use an Elixir when necessary. Yeah, it wasn't in the context of one enemy phase, it was in the context of an entire map. Chrom!Sully isn't dying on any single enemy phase unless you lure a bunch of enemies together and then throw them in for fun, lol.

By the way, where do you even want Donnel? You can tell us how good he is all you want, but what's the point without a focus?

[Lord Raven]

Those hit "problems" (never experienced it myself, even in Lunatic) don't exist after she promotes to Sorcerer because she becomes largely an enemy phase unit which allows her to take advantage of Hex very often. She broke the game to point of me deleting my hard mode file out of boredom. There's no way in hell Panne can do such a thing because she only has access to bad classes.

Okay cool

No. She has a chance of death in later chapters. Henry and Tharja don't. Literally 0% chance of death once they get rolling and can buy Nosferatu tomes, which is...well, you still have about 20 maps to go including Paralogues. Damn, quite a long time. You're arguing that having a chance of death is okay. What the hell happened to this place?

Tharja has a chance of death because she doesn't have 100% hit rates. In fact, she has more like 70% hit rates even at her peak because her skill base and growth are so low, also leaving her with a low chance of death.

Forges also don't kill Panne in one hit so I don't understand what you're getting at, and Panne can use Elixirs pretty easily. Rexcalibur doesn't show up in 100% of enemy units, and not all enemy units are bow users either (Bow users probably 2HKO her at worst but don't come in groups).

I explained it enough. This is purely a matter of player skill and math. It's not hard to do math and see if you'll leave a unit at optimal HP for Donnel to get a kill and it doesn't cost any efficiency at all really to do this in most cases. I don't know what else to say.

You've said litearlly nothing aside from that lol look who's being as unconstructive as dondon?

If Avatar shitstomps the game, then Panne being good doesn't matter either, does it? Just stop with this. Seriously.

You brought this point up. I'm pointing out how you're contradicting yourself by saying this.

What happened to good old days where a chance of death meant FAILURE? Are we suddenly in Casual Mode? Chance of death is a chance of death, something Panne faces BIG TIME thanks to all the flier killing weapons EVERYWHERE, and something Henry and Tharja don't care about because they just can't die. Dying means you have to restart the chapter. That's pretty awful. In the olde days, it meant GGS YOU FAILED YOUR SURVIVAL RANK. Even restarting in FE4 didn't save it iirc. Considering we're not n00bs, I assumed this was Classic Hard w/o letting units die. 4% chance of death on the enemy phase? No thanks.

When does Tharja join? Right after that is generally where I found it to be easy and reasonable to have him become a Mercenary, then he can promote shortly after that, maybe two chapters after. Then once he promotes he's a god, and once he gets Sol he becomes Demonbane.

How is that reasonable then? Enemy units tend to match his 10/1 Mercenary stats where he has an Attack stat in the 20s. Then you still need to baby him, and he goes through Axes hell to get to this point (since there are a ton of Axe and Lance enemies up until this point, so he won't have the best hit rates against them either).

[Seven Deadly Sins]

christ, this thread blew up

1: inui, stop being so damn aggressive, and stop being so bristly and defensive, it's not helping the discussion

2: i should really reread my post, but that's what happens when you come home at butt o'clock after a whole day out. i was considering the panne thing, but meant to edit it and didn't- she definitely deserves the top 2 slot but there's no unit that actually deserves avatar tier other than avatar

3: this gushing about nosferatu is getting a wee mite tiresome, tharja / henry are fine exactly where they are and sorceror!avatar is still the very top of the tier list

4: donnel and ricken above flavia and basilio, vacating the bottom tier. no higher for donnel, because seriously this is getting silly

5: nowi up to near cherche makes sense, but i'd like to get a little more input

i will make a more detailed post when i get back but i really want to see the passive-aggressive (or active-aggressive) sniping stop because it's seriously tiresome

[Legault!]

Tharja has a chance of death because she doesn't have 100% hit rates. In fact, she has more like 70% hit rates even at her peak because her skill base and growth are so low, also leaving her with a low chance of death.

Okay hang on, what the fuck is this

Hex, Anathema, Pair Up bonuses, Elwind has 95 hit, literally True Hit

Edited March 24, 2013 by Legault!

[Lord Raven]

Then she doesn't have Nosferatu anymore o.o As far as I know the argument was that Tharja is mindless to use because Nosferatanking. Suddenly Elwind comes into the argument? You can forge Nosferatu to have 90 hit I guess but, despite you having a lot of money in this game, I don't think 7500 Gold per Nosferatu tome (that you will be going through like candy might I add) is going to be feasible, especially for 2 units.

Tharja > Stahl should be a total no-brainer.

I'd disagree to be honest. Stahl is going to be your first Iron Sword user (except Frederick), he grows decently and his defense blows the hell up. Make him a Great Knight and his defense gets even higher, as well as his HP, so he is practically inpenetrable throughout the mid-game and the latter part of the early game. Once it comes time for the endgame, he's an adequate Swordmaster so his evade/Resistance/AS can keep up. He does have his problems, but I don't think it's a blowout because Tharja has her fair share of problems. Edited March 24, 2013 by Lord Raven

[Legault!]

I'd disagree to be honest. Stahl is going to be your first Iron Sword user (except Frederick), he grows decently and his defense blows the hell up. Make him a Great Knight and his defense gets even higher, as well as his HP, so he is practically inpenetrable throughout the mid-game and the latter part of the early game. Once it comes time for the endgame, he's an adequate Swordmaster so his evade/Resistance/AS can keep up. He does have his problems, but I don't think it's a blowout because Tharja has her fair share of problems.

Tharja has zero problems post-Ch.13 and her earlygame "hit" "problems" are trivially dealt with. I'm not really sure what Stahl does other than being a decent mobile tank (60% defense growth is sweet).

Elwind is cool for the Ch.9-12 interim where Tharja has one total Nosferatu tome available.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Legault!

[dondon151]

hmm of course i totally did not predict that this would happen

Panne shitstomping is irrelevant then too, isn't it? You're trying to trivialize units literally breaking the game to the point of your team being like Ivan Ooze where you can mindlessly do things and win because of 10 turns of extra effort wtf man... There's a line between being good and clearing chapters quickly and being so broken that you can mindlessly do whatever you want for 20 chapters, which Sorcerers and Heroes not only cross, but leap over.

you missed the FE11 era where it was established that trivializing maps with thinking is better than trivializing maps slower without thinking

i.e., the amount of brainpower that the player has to use is totally irrelevant. please review other topics.

If Avatar shitstomps the game, then Panne being good doesn't matter either, does it? Just stop with this. Seriously.

completely incorrect. this sort of thing happens in almost every other fire emblem game (where one or a handful of units are dominant over the entire game) and less-dominant units still manage to be very good and establish themselves as superior to bad units.

y'all are just playing whack-a-mole here with inui's opinions and it's not like we haven't been there before. it's probably rather amusing for him, but tiresome for everyone else.

Edited March 24, 2013 by dondon151

[Legault!]

hmm of course i totally did not predict that this would happen

you missed the FE11 era where it was established that trivializing maps with thinking is better than trivializing maps slower without thinking

i.e., the amount of brainpower that the player has to use is totally irrelevant. please review other topics.

Stop living in the past, dondon. This is a new wave of tier theorists here who recognize that "efficiency" involves brain power because mashing start is far more efficient than slaving away at your 3DS to reduce total turn counts by five.

[Florete]

i will make a more detailed post when i get back but i really want to see the passive-aggressive (or active-aggressive) sniping stop because it's seriously tiresome

But maaaaaaaaaaan it wouldn't be SF tier debating without that.

[Blademaster!]

5: nowi up to near cherche makes sense, but i'd like to get a little more input

What kind of input do you want? Turn counts trying to get her up to par(since if we're going over the maximum allowed for Brisk that's bad)? What resources she needs? What the strategy is using her? How much exp she gets per kill? Who to pair her with? I could post my hard mode log of using her, where her stats are pretty average for the most part (the most important of which is speed), that has my turn counts, but that is a low tier log where I didn't use rescue or forging, and tried to avoid using high tier characters.

[Lord Raven]

Stop living in the past, dondon. This is a new wave of tier theorists here who recognize that "efficiency" involves brain power because mashing start is far more efficient than slaving away at your 3DS to reduce total turn counts by five.

Is it just me or does this post not make sense? I think the first half contradicted the second half....

[grandjackal]

It's hard to take someone's argument seriously when they fill their posts with entire sentences with capitalized letters as if it helps make their argument clear, along with image macros (which I thought were against some new rule or some other. Either way it's obnoxious). That, and what everyone else mentioned. If there's going to be an argument, at least focus on the point you're trying to make.

Anyways, Legault, to counter your points...Elwind is not Nosferatu. She has a base durability of 25 HP and 10 Def. It's ok, but it's not great. You can't have your cake and eat it. If she has Nosferatu she has a good chance to miss and then get screwed. If she uses Elwind, she is easily killable.

Furthermore, a pair up does not automatically fix her issues, seeing as not all enemies are melee for her skills to work, and a skills support most likely does not offer Def or Mag, so she may encounter a (starting) in parenthesis to stress starting point problem of not being able to outheal damage done with Nos.

While I think Tharja's good, I find it for completely seperate reasons that are being argued here, because most of these arguments seem like hype at best.

Also to clarify some things, someone said they wondered why Sumia is as high as she is, and I can at least say I can see why due to how good a support she is at the start. She supplies flight and speed, and in some chapters like...Which was it, 5? The one with the first draco boss? She provides Chrom a quick way up to start applying Falchion directly to some dragon foreheads, or even better she can just pair up with Frederick. Has anyone tried that pairup? It's ridiculous. It allows Frederick to keep going far after when he supposedly winds down, and lets Sumia be a beast at her start (well, the 18 HP sucks) with that big +4 Def and Str boost. I've found it so effective I've used it in a majority of my playthroughs with great success. It can help Fred hit level 10 so he can reclass to something else (like Gryphon or Paladin), or get level 15 for Dual Guard+ (which is great on a high def unit that has an S support with someone fairly fragile) then switch to Paladin or Gryphon (who have what I feel to be pretty sweet level 5 skills).

As for Stahl...Placeholder? I've used him once, and found him fairly effective with a starting Kellam support (though there are a lot that want Kellam's support). Lacks the doubling offense, but his Def is s high that he doesn't care. For the most part he could pretty much walk into a crowd and hulksmash. That...was as far as I bothered cause I was training Kellam for 10/5 so he'd be an amazing Cordelia support, but I could see potential in Stahl in a similar fashion. However, I'll admit that I'm probably ot the best to argue in Stahl's sake.

[Legault!]

Is it just me or does this post not make sense? I think the first half contradicted the second half....

Probably worth reading again. A) I'm teasing dondon, and B) I think it's perfectly fair to argue that brain power should be considered, as intuitively people consider mashing start more efficient than stressing over absolute LTC.

Anyways, Legault, to counter your points...Elwind is not Nosferatu. She has a base durability of 25 HP and 10 Def. It's ok, but it's not great. You can't have your cake and eat it. If she has Nosferatu she has a good chance to miss and then get screwed. If she uses Elwind, she is easily killable.

If I have a cake why can't I also eat the cake, isn't that why I bought the cake

Elwind is, as I said, pretty useful for the interim between Ch.11 (when Nosferatu will likely run out) and Ch.13. These hit concerns have yet to be solidified past theorycraft; Pair Up exists, Anathema and Hex exist, skill potions exist, True Hit exists, forging exists.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Legault!

[dondon151]

Stop living in the past, dondon. This is a new wave of tier theorists here who recognize that "efficiency" involves brain power because mashing start is far more efficient than slaving away at your 3DS to reduce total turn counts by five.

ugh not this again (though i suppose i should thank you for getting me to expound on my point here)

let me tell you why this sort of thing doesn't work

suppose that i play through the game once, "slaving" away at my 3DS to reduce my total turncounts with strategies that require thinking.

i then tell someone else how to play through the game so that he is able to repeat the strategy more or less exactly.

now both strategies require no brainpower to execute, so the conclusion is that the one requiring fewer turns is still "better." this is just the natural process of evolution in the breakdown of a strategy game.

Edited March 24, 2013 by dondon151

[Legault!]

ugh not this again

let me tell you why this sort of thing doesn't work

suppose that i play through the game once, "slaving" away at my 3DS to reduce my total turncounts with strategies that require thinking.

i then tell someone else how to play through the game so that he is able to repeat the strategy more or less exactly.

now both strategies require no brainpower to execute, so the conclusion is that the one requiring fewer turns is still "better."

Two things:

1. Fire Emblem is a variable series with variable hit /avoid and growth rates. Even if you tell me how do perform a strategy step-by-step, there will still be instances where I need to think on my feet.

2. Assume you're correct. Brainless completion every time > brainless completion every time past the first time. Also consider who this tier list is for: people who know LTC strats inside and out, or less extreme players?

Edited March 24, 2013 by Legault!