why are jeigans in high tiers?

[Narga_Rocks]

I don't like to LTC games which have been TASed. The reason I like FE9, 10 and 13 is because the chapter designs aren't as vulnerable to TASes. For example, one can cut only a turn from my FE9 run. I'm sure a turn can't be cut from that run, apart from one in chapter 3.

The charge of meaninglessness might be valid for 8, but that's because Seth is a special case. In 9, Titania can actually cost you several turns from her exp hogging. In 10, while Jeigans don't really exist, there's still characters like Volug and Sothe and Haar who do hog a lot of exp that could have gone to say, Jill, who actually needs to be durable enough for 3-6. And in 13 you need to train your avatar a lot for Galeforce and such.

In 9, have you actually tried using Titania like others while still gunning for whatever turncounts you managed to pull off? There isn't necessarily just one way to skin that cat. Also, did you record your run or anything? I'd like to see how you pulled off good turncounts in the first 9 chapters before Marcia shows up without a lot of use of Titania. Or do you just save so many turns with your other characters later that somehow you can make up for higher turncounts in the first 9 chapters?

Also, in RD what does Haar's exp "hogging" have to do with raising Jill? Or which GM unit are we talking about here that you are neglecting by having Haar finish chapters quicker?

Edited April 8, 2013 by Narga_Rocks

[Chiki]

I never claimed I didn't use Titania, lol. Have you been reading my posts on this thread? All I am claiming is that using Jeigans have consequences.

Second, I have a list of strategies on my FE9 thread.

1. Oscar and Boyd need to grow a few levels for Chapter 7.

2. Mia/Boyd need to be promoted for 9.

3. Marcia needs to be promoted by 12.

4. Oscar and Kieran or Makalov need to be promoted by 17-2.

5. Ilyana needs to be promoted by 22.

Marcia saves a lot more turns than Titania does (and can cost). And even if she didn't, I think saving turns in later chapters is more important than saving turns in earlier ones.

Haar needs to take a lot of bexp that could have gone to Jill (who will get Boots, most likely). And Sothe and Volug take a lot of exp that Jill needs to be high level by 3-6.

[shadykid]

TAS runs use methods to burn RNs; beamcrash actually modifies the upcoming RN string (which is why he doesn't burn RNs in his FE6 videos).

wut

might as well call that a hack run

[Florete]

wut

might as well call that a hack run

TAS = Tool-Assisted Speedrun. I don't know how those got into this conversation, but no one considers them legitimate runs, including the people who make them. They're only for entertainment purposes.

[Narga_Rocks]

I never claimed I didn't use Titania, lol. Have you been reading my posts on this thread? All I am claiming is that using Jeigans have consequences.

Second, I have a list of strategies on my FE9 thread.

1. Oscar and Boyd need to grow a few levels for Chapter 7.

2. Mia/Boyd need to be promoted for 9.

3. Marcia needs to be promoted by 12.

4. Oscar and Kieran or Makalov need to be promoted by 17-2.

5. Ilyana needs to be promoted by 22.

Marcia saves a lot more turns than Titania does (and can cost). And even if she didn't, I think saving turns in later chapters is more important than saving turns in earlier ones.

Of course you use her, it would be impossible not to. I said "a lot". The problem is you seem to be implying that we use her more than you do in the early chapters. Well, that's not the only problem. The other problem is you use "exp drain" in a weird way. So a few questions:

If one is to use Titania the way that you use her and no more, is she still an exp drain?

If one uses Titania like you do, is Titania still costing you turns?

If she is costing you turns, why are you using her as much as you do?

I'll also ask why you think turns later are more important. In your other thread you showed your belief for the worth of each chapter, but not really the why of it. Is it complexity or difficulty or what? Also, have you considered "what if my best character didn't exist?" So take out Marcia/Jill in the later chapters, for example. How complex/hard is the chapter now? What is the difference that this character makes? Do the same comparison with removing Titania. Note that this isn't "how many turns are saved" but what is her impact on the chapter. I mean, there's a reason those early chapters are easy and that reason has red hair.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Titania saves as many turns as Marcia (that is, Marcia compared to, say, Jill or whomever). What makes Marcia's saved turns worth more? The number of enemies we have to sit through on enemy phase? And if Marcia saves more, fine.

Oh, and are we talking RNG abused levels or regular levels, just out of curiosity?

Oh, and your list has Jill really high. Doesn't she cost a lot of turns to recruit? But if she's still so high on your list, she's clearly doing a lot. And if she's doing a lot, then can Marcia be frequently replaced by Jill or do you need them both? If you don't need them both, how many turns does Marcia really save, then?

Haar needs to take a lot of bexp that could have gone to Jill (who will get Boots, most likely). And Sothe and Volug take a lot of exp that Jill needs to be high level by 3-6.

Do you mean to save the bexp from chapter 2-P all the way to 4-P and use it on Jill then? I'll grant you the Sothe and Volug issue. If you can get the same turncounts in part 1 while training Jill as using Sothe and Volug from 1-6 on, then obviously there is no point in using them since a trained Jill is more useful. Of course, isn't an S rank Volug still useful for places where Jill alone isn't enough? Like, where she's on the other side of the map?

Edited April 8, 2013 by Narga_Rocks

[Loki Laufeyson]

Why not peruse all the LTC runs of FE8, or start your own? You can theory all you like, but the truth is in the turns cut, if you're going to argue how that exp is being used best. You can make a case for Titania out of experience but then again, Titania is still a key player in getting certain turncounts in the early game simply by virtue of her combined bulk and combat.

I'm not really advocating for or against, but I think arguing in theory is a lot worse than arguing with actual evidence with turncounts and strategy breakdowns.

You, out of here with your good natured logic.

But yeah, ive tried low turn count runs (well the closest i can muster without sucking the fun out of it) and the Jeigan is always the guy who dominates the map early game. I just dont even know why this is being argued!

TAS = Tool-Assisted Speedrun. I don't know how those got into this conversation, but no one considers them legitimate runs, including the people who make them. They're only for entertainment purposes.

Thank you for answering that question. I was about to asked wtf TAS was.

[bottlegnomes]

So I skipped half this topic because I got tired of reading. Anyway, here's Titania vs Oscar at 20/1:

Titania:

HP 33, Str 12, Mag 4, Skl 13, Spd 14, Luck 11, Def 11, Res 7

Growths:

HP 80, Str 45, Mag 25, Skl 60, Spd 50, Luck 45, Def 40, Res 45

Oscar:

HP 38.35, Str 15.65, Mag 6.4, Skl 16.5, Spd 16.65, Luck 10.1 Def 15.95, Res 8.1

Growths:

HP 55, Str 45, Mag 20, Skl 50, Spd 45, Luck 30, Def 35, Res 30

This is literally the worst Titania will be compared to Oscar unless we give him a level lead, which would go against what you've been arguing, Snowy. Now to be fair, Oscar does have a solid lead, but from experience, Titania's still not doing too badly at base around chapter 17, when Oscar'll probably being promoted. So we can literally completely ignore Titania for the first half of the game and still have her be useful. We can't do that with Oscar.

As for actual comparison, Oscar wins durability, no argument. He wins offense by a little. He can double some enemies Titania can't; neither are in danger of being doubled, unless it's like a SM or a raven. Oscar has about 2 points of attack on Titania.

Again, this is literally the worst Titania will ever be in comparison, by your standards for playing.

As for bosses, why not give them to Titania? She gets the most comparative experience, which Narga already mentioned. Also, Titania ORKOs them with no chance of death. Oscar takes 4-5 rounds on average and will die to most without healing. Why wouldn't a player use Titania?

Also, I wrote this a while ago (spoilered for length):

For simplicity’s sake, I’m going to make the following assumptions for experience gain. Oscar will gain a level every chapter he is available. Titania will gain a third of the experience Oscar does while the level gap is between 11 and 18, half when the level gap is between 5 and 10, unless promotion occurs first, 3/4 between 3 and 5 or 8 if both are promoted, and the same below that. For the record, Titania is capable of gaining a third of a level early on with the boss kills, which she is far and away the best at doing and gets the most comparative benefit from, making it not favoritism.

I will assume bonus experience is split evenly among similarly leveled units. For example, in chapter 8, Ike, Oscar, and Boyd will all receive a third of the bonus experience. I will assume characters from only upper mid and above are being used, except Laguz as they aren’t good longterm investments. If a character assumed to be used is lower than the average level, that character will receive bexp to catch up, as this makes the most logical sense. Maximum bexp is assumed for every chapter, except nondeployment bonuses, and at hard mode rates. Bexp will be approximated. For up to level 20 will be 1:1. 20/1-20/10 will be 1:2 20/11-20/20 will be 1:3. If anyone has any more accurate numbers I will take them.

As this is only concerned with the time Oscar is superior to Titania and the two have equal utility, I will only address things outside stats once Oscar is statistically superior to Titania.

Chapter 1:

Oscar level 3/0

HP 26 Str 6 Mag 1 Skl 6 Spd 7 Luck 5 Def 8 Res 0

Titania level --/1

HP 33 Str 12 Mag 4 Skl 13 Spd 14 Luck 11 Def 11 Res 7

Chapter 2

Oscar 4/0

HP 26.55 Str 6.45 Mag 1.2 Skl 6.5 Spd 7.45 Luck 5.3 Def 8.35 Res 0.3

Titania --/1.33

HP 33 Str 12 Mag 4 Skl 13 Spd 14 Luck 11 Def 11 Res 7

Chapter 3

Oscar 5/0 (unavailable, so no level gained)

HP 27.1 Str 6.9 Mag 1.4 Skl 7 Spd 7.9 Luck 5.6 Def 8.7 Res 0.6

Titania --/1.67

HP 33 Str 12 Mag 4 Skl 13 Spd 14 Luck 11 Def 11 Res 7

Chapter 4

Oscar 5/0 (unavailable)

HP 27.1 Str 6.9 Mag 1.4 Skl 7 Spd 7.9 Luck 5.6 Def 8.7 Res 0.6

Titania --/2

HP 33.8 Str 12.45 Mag 4.25 Skl 13.6 Spd 14.5 Luck 11.45 Def 11.4 Res 7.45

Chapter 5

Oscar 5/0

HP 27.1 Str 6.9 Mag 1.4 Skl 7 Spd 7.9 Luck 5.6 Def 8.7 Res 0.6

Titania --/2.33

HP 33.8 Str 12.45 Mag 4.25 Skl 13.6 Spd 14.5 Luck 11.45 Def 11.4 Res 7.45

Chapter 6

Oscar 6/0

HP 27.65 Str 7.35 Mag 1.6 Skl 7.5 Spd 8.35 Luck 5.9 Def 9.05 Res 0.9

Titania --/2.67

HP 33.8 Str 12.45 Mag 4.25 Skl 13.6 Spd 14.5 Luck 11.45 Def 11.4 Res 7.45

Chapter 7

Oscar 7/0

HP 28.2 Str 7.8 Mag 1.8 Skl 8 Spd 8.8 Luck 6.2 Def 9.4 Res 1.2

Titania --/3

HP 34.6 Str 12.9 Mag 4.5 Skl 14.2 Spd 15 Luck 11.9 Def 11.8 Res 7.9


Chapter 8 (bexp available for Oscar 1560/3=520)

Oscar 12.2/0

HP 30.95 Str 10.05 Mag 2.8 Skl 10.5 Spd 11.05 Luck 7.7 Def 11.15 Res 2.7

Titania--/3.33

HP 34.6 Str 12.9 Mag 4.5 Skl 14.2 Spd 15 Luck 11.9 Def 11.8 Res 7.9

Chapter 9 (bexp available 0)

Oscar 13.2/0

HP 31.5 Str 10.5 Mag 3 Skl 11 Spd 11.5 Luck 8 Def 11.5 Res 3

Titania --/3.67

HP 34.6 Str 12.9 Mag 4.5 Skl 14.2 Spd 15 Luck 11.9 Def 11.8 Res 7.9

Chapter 10 (bexp available for Oscar 0, catching up Marcia and Mist)

Oscar 14.2/0

HP 32.05 Str 10.95 Mag 3.2 Skl 11.5 Spd 11.95 Luck 8.3 Def 11.85 Res 3.3

Titania --/4.17

HP 35.4 Str 13.35 Mag 4.75 Skl 14.8 Spd 15.5 Luck 12.35 Def 12.2 Res 8.35

Chapter 11 (Bexp available for Oscar 0, goes to catching up Marcia (caught up), Mist (level 6), Nephenee (level 8), and Kieran (caught up))

Oscar 15.2/0

HP 32.6 Str 11.4 Mag 3.4 Skl 12 Spd 12.4 Luck 8.6 Def 12.2 Res 3.6

Titania 4.67

HP 35.4 Str 13.35 Mag 4.75 Skl 14.8 Spd 15.5 Luck 12.35 Def 12.2 Res 8.35

Chapter 12 (Bexp available for Oscar 0, goes to catching up Mist (level 8) and Nephenee (caught up))

Oscar 16.2/0

HP 33.15 Str 11.85 Mag 3.6 Skl 12.5 Spd 12.85 Luck 8.9 Def 12.55 Res 3.9

Titania 5.17

HP 35.2 Str 13.8 Mag 5 Skl 15.4 Spd 16 Luck 12.8 Def 12.6 Res 8.8

Chapter 13 (bexp available for Oscar 0, goes to catching up Jill (level 11) and Mist (level 9))

Oscar 17.2/0

HP 33.7 Str 12.3 Mag 3.8 Skl 13 Spd 13.3 Luck 9.2 Def 12.9 Res 4.2

Titania --/5.67

HP 35.2 Str 13.8 Mag 5 Skl 15.4 Spd 16 Luck 12.8 Def 12.6 Res 8.8

Chapter 14 (Bexp available to Oscar 0, goes to catching up Jill (level 13), Astrid (level 4), and Mist (level 10))

Oscar 18.2/0

HP 34.25 Str 12.75 Mag 4 Skl 13.5 Spd 13.75 Luck 9.5 Def 13.25 Res 4.5

Titania --/6.17

HP 37 Str 14.25 Mag 5.25 Skl 16 Spd 16.5 Luck 13.25 Def 13 Res 9.25

Chapter 15 (Bexp available to Oscar 0, goes to catching up Jill (level 15), Astrid (level 12), Makalov (level 11), and Mist (level 11))

Oscar 19.2/0

HP 34.8 Str 13.2 Mag 4.2 Skl 14 Spd 14.2 Luck 9.8 Def 13.6 Res 4.8

Titania --/6.67

HP 37 Str 14.25 Mag 5.25 Skl 16 Spd 16.5 Luck 13.25 Def 13 Res 9.25

Chapter 16 (Bexp available to Oscar 0, goest to catching up Jill (caught up), Astrid (caught up), Makalov (level 16), and Mist (12))

Oscar 20.2/0

HP 35.35 Str 13.65 Mag 4.4 Skl 14.5 Spd 14.65 Luck 10.1 Def 13.95 Res 5.1

Titania --/7.17

HP 37.8 Str 14.7 Mag 5.5 Skl 16.6 Spd 17 Luck 13.7 Def 13.4 Res 9.7

Chapter 17 (Bexp available to Oscar 0, goes to Makalov (caught up) and Mist (level 13))

Oscar 20/1.2

HP 38.35 Str 15.65 Mag 6.4 Skl 16.5 Spd 16.65 Luck 10.1 Def 15.95 Res 8.1

Titania --/7.67

HP 37.8 Str 14.7 Mag 5.5 Skl 16.6 Spd 17 Luck 13.7 Def 13.4 Res 9.7

Strength: negated by the extra might of axes.

Durability:

Enemies:

Myrmidon x1 - 14 attack, 13 AS. Oscar literally can’t die. Titania is 19RKOed. No advantage one way or the other.

Myrmidon x2 - 19 attack, 14 AS. Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed. Win Oscar.

Myrmidon x2 - 23 effective attack, 10AS. Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed. Win Oscar.

Archer x1 - 19 attack, 12 AS. Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

Sniper x1 - 21 attack, 14 AS. Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

Fighter x1 - 24 attack, 7 AS. Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

Fighter x1 - 18 attack, 9 AS. Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

Knight x1 - 22 attack, 4AS. Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

Knight x1 - 17 attack, 4AS. Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 13RKOed.

Halberdier x1 - 23 attack, 14AS. Oscar is 6RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

Mage x1 - 17 attack, 10AS. Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

Mage x1 - 19 attack, 9AS. Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

Myrmidon x2 - 20, 16. Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

Myrmidon x1 - 21, 16. Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 16 (iron blade)

28 hp, 21 atk, 12 AS, 100 hit, 28 avo, 7 def, 4 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 16 (venin edge)

26 hp, 15 atk, 15 AS, 101 hit, 35 avo, 7 def, 4 res, 6 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 13RKOed.

1x Fighter lv 15 (steel axe)

37 hp, 24 atk, 7 AS, 85 hit, 18 avo, 9 def, 4 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Archer lv 16 (iron bow)

27 hp, 15 atk, 11 AS, 119 hit, 26 avo, 10 def, 6 res, 7 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 19RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 12 (steel lance)

28 hp, 18 atk, 4 AS, 91 hit, 11 avo, 8 def, 4 res, 4 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 13 (steel lance)

30 hp, 18 atk, 4 AS, 93 hit, 11 avo, 9 def, 4 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 15 (steel lance)

32 hp, 19 atk, 6 AS, 95 hit, 15 avo, 9 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 15 (javelin)

30 hp, 16 atk, 10 AS, 84 hit, 24 avo, 10 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 20RKOed

1x Lance Knight lv 12 (iron lance)

29 hp, 16 atk, 10 AS, 95 hit, 23 avo, 11 def, 4 res, 3 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 20RKOed

1x Lance Knight lv 13 (steel lance)

29 hp, 20 atk, 8 AS, 85 hit, 19 avo, 11 def, 4 res, 3 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Lance Knight lv 14 (steel lance)

30 hp, 21 atk, 9 AS, 88 hit, 22 avo, 12 def, 5 res, 3 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Lance Knight lv 14 (iron lance)

30 hp, 17 atk, 12 AS, 98 hit, 28 avo, 12 def, 5 res, 3 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 39RKOed. Titania is 13RKOed.

1x Lance Knight lv 14 (javelin)

29 hp, 17 atk, 11 AS, 78 hit, 25 avo, 12 def, 5 res, 3 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 39RKOed. Titania is 13RKOed.

1x Sword Knight lv 15 (iron blade)

30 hp, 21 atk, 9 AS, 90 hit, 22 avo, 12 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Bow Knight lv 12 (steel bow)

28 hp, 19 atk, 11 AS, 85 hit, 25 avo, 11 def, 4 res, 3 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Bow Knight lv 15 (laguz bow)

31 hp, 21 atk (31 eff), 13 AS, 93 hit, 30 avo, 13 def, 6 res, 3 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Axe Knight lv 15 (poleax [d])

29 hp, 21 atk (31 eff), 5 AS, 81 hit, 14 avo, 12 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 3RKOed. Titania is 3RKOed.

1x Paladin lv 2 (short spear)

33 hp, 22 atk, 14 AS, 94 hit, 32 avo, 14 def, 9 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Paladin lv 3 (silver lance)

33 hp, 29 atk, 15 AS, 99 hit, 34 avo, 15 def, 8 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 3RKOed. Titania is 3RKOed.

2x Wyvern Rider lv 10 (iron lance)

27 hp, 18 atk, 6 AS, 98 hit, 14 avo, 13 def, 4 res, 4 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Archer lv 13 (steel bow)

25 hp, 16 atk, 8 AS, 99 hit, 19 avo, 9 def, 4 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 13RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 12 (steel lance)

28 hp, 18 atk, 4 AS, 91 hit, 11 avo, 8 def, 4 res, 4 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 15 (javelin)

30 hp, 16 atk, 10 AS, 84 hit, 24 avo, 10 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 19RKOed.

1x Lance Knight lv 13 (iron lance)

29 hp, 17 atk, 11 AS, 98 hit, 26 avo, 11 def, 4 res, 3 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 39RKOed. Titania is 13RKOed.

1x Sword Knight lv 15 (steel sword)

30 hp, 20 atk, 12 AS, 93 hit, 28 avo, 13 def, 6 res, 3 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Mage lv 12 (wind)

23 hp, 13 atk, 9 AS, 116 hit, 20 avo, 5 def, 11 res, 3 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 13RKOed.

1x Mage lv 12 (fire)

23 hp, 14 atk, 9 AS, 111 hit, 20 avo, 5 def, 11 res, 3 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Mage lv 13 (elthunder)

23 hp, 18 atk, 6 AS, 93 hit, 14 avo, 5 def, 11 res, 14 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Mage lv 14 (elfire)

24 hp, 16 atk, 7 AS, 103 hit, 16 avo, 6 def, 12 res, 4 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

4x Mage lv 14-15 (fire)

25 hp, 15 atk, 10 AS, 115 hit, 22 avo, 6 def, 12 res, 4 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 6RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

1x Mage lv 15 (thunder)

24 hp, 17 atk, 10 AS, 106 hit, 23 avo, 6 def, 12 res, 9 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Sage lv 3 (elfire [d])

30 hp, 19 atk, 13 AS, 110 hit, 29 avo, 8 def, 14 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Fighter lv 16 (hammer)

36 hp, 23 atk (33 eff), 2 AS, 75 hit, 8 avo, 9 def, 4 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Fighter lv 16 (hand axe)

38 hp, 20 atk, 10 AS, 77 hit, 24 avo, 8 def, 4 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 15 (steel sword)

26 hp, 18 atk, 12 AS, 105 hit, 28 avo, 7 def, 4 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 39RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 16 (venin edge)

26 hp, 14 atk, 16 AS, 104 hit, 36 avo, 7 def, 4 res, 7 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 19RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 16 (iron sword)

28 hp, 16 atk, 15 AS, 124 hit, 34 avo, 7 def, 4 res, 7 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 10RKOed.

3x Soldier lv 14-15 (steel lance)

32 hp, 19 atk, 6 AS, 95 hit, 15 avo, 9 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

2x Archer lv 13-14 (iron bow)

26 hp, 14 atk, 10 AS, 116 hit, 23 avo, 9 def, 5 res, 7 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 38RKOed.

2x Archer lv 13-14 (venin bow)

27 hp, 13 atk, 10 AS, 99 hit, 24 avo, 10 def, 6 res, 7 crit, 4 cev

1x Archer lv 15 (longbow)

26 hp, 13 atk, 8 AS, 97 hit, 20 avo, 9 def, 5 res, 7 crit, 4 cev

Both unkillable.

2x Soldier lv 16 (steel lance)

32 hp, 20 atk, 8 AS, 97 hit, 19 avo, 10 def, 5 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 15 (iron sword)

26 hp, 15 atk, 14 AS, 120 hit, 32 avo, 7 def, 3 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is invincible. Titania is 13RKOed.

2x Myrmidon lv 15-17 (iron sword)

28 hp, 17 atk, 16 AS, 123 hit, 37 avo, 8 def, 4 res, 7 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 8RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 16 (steel lance)

32 hp, 20 atk, 8 AS, 97 hit, 19 avo, 10 def, 5 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

2x Mage lv 14-15 (fire)

25 hp, 15 atk, 10 AS, 115 hit, 22 avo, 6 def, 12 res, 4 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 6RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

3x Lance Knight lv 14-15 (iron lance)

30 hp, 17 atk, 11 AS, 98 hit, 26 avo, 12 def, 5 res, 3 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 39RKOed. Titania is 13RKOed.

2x Soldier lv 13 (steel lance)

30 hp, 18 atk, 4 AS, 93 hit, 11 avo, 9 def, 4 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Archer lv 16 (iron bow)

27 hp, 15 atk, 11 AS, 119 hit, 26 avo, 10 def, 6 res, 7 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 19RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 14 (javelin)

32 hp, 16 atk, 9 AS, 83 hit, 21 avo, 9 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 19RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 16 (steel lance)

32 hp, 20 atk, 8 AS, 97 hit, 19 avo, 10 def, 5 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Bow Knight lv 15 (steel bow)

30 hp, 20 atk, 11 AS, 90 hit, 26 avo, 12 def, 5 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

2x Sword Knight lv 16-18 (iron blade [1d])

33 hp, 22 atk, 12 AS, 91 hit, 29 avo, 1 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Lance Knight lv 17 (steel lance)

31 hp, 22 atk, 11 AS, 90 hit, 26 avo, 13 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Axe Knight lv 15 (poleax)

31 hp, 22 atk (32 eff), 5 AS, 78 hit, 14 avo, 12 def, 6 res, 3 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 6RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Axe Knight lv 16 (iron axe)

31 hp, 20 atk, 12 AS, 95 hit, 28 avo, 13 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Paladin lv 4 (short axe)

34 hp, 24 atk, 14 AS, 90 hit, 33 avo, 15 def, 9 res, 5 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Fighter lv 18 (steel axe)

39 hp, 25 atk, 9 AS, 90 hit, 23 avo, 10 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

2x Myrmidon lv 17-18 (iron blade)

28 hp, 21 atk, 14 AS, 105 hit, 33 avo, 8 def, 4 res, 7 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Mage lv 13 (meteor, fire)

24 hp, 23 atk, 0 AS, 88 hit, 2 avo, 6 def, 12 res, 4 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 3RKOed. Titania is 3RKOed.

2x Mage lv 16-17 (elfire)

25 hp, 18 atk, 10 AS, 108 hit, 23 avo, 7 def, 14 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Mage lv 17 (thunder)

25 hp, 18 atk, 12 AS, 106 hit, 27 avo, 7 def, 14 res, 9 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

2x Soldier lv 16 (iron lance)

32 hp, 17 atk, 11 AS, 108 hit, 26 avo, 10 def, 5 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 39RKOed. Titania is 19RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 19 (iron lance)

36 hp, 19 atk, 12 AS, 110 hit, 28 avo, 12 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

2x Halberdier lv 4-5 (short spear, 1 adept [d])

38 hp, 22 atk, 14 AS, 104 hit, 32 avo, 13 def, 8 res, 7 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Pegasus Kn lv 17 (steel lance)

24 hp, 21 atk, 14 AS, 99 hit, 33 avo, 9 def, 11 res, 6 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Pegagus Kn lv 17 (iron lance)

25 hp, 19 atk, 17 AS, 113 hit, 39 avo, 8 def, 10 res, 7 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

1x Knight lv 13 (javelin)

29 hp, 17 atk, 3 AS, 76 hit, 8 avo, 17 def, 5 res, 3 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 39RKOed. Titania is 13RKOed.

3x Knight lv 13-14 (steel lance)

29 hp, 21 atk, 1 AS, 89 hit, 5 avo, 16 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x General lv 3 (steel lance, steel sword)

35 hp, 25 atk, 6 AS, 96 hit, 16 avo, 18 def, 10 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x General lv 3 (short spear)

34 hp, 24 atk, 6 AS, 93 hit, 15 avo, 19 def, 10 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

Oliver lv 2 (nosferatu [d])

32 hp, 16 atk, 6 AS, 123 hit, 37 avo, 10 def, 20 res, 7 crit, 25 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

2x Bow Knight lv 16-17 (steel bow)

32 hp, 20 atk, 12 AS, 92 hit, 28 avo, 13 def, 7 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Bow Knight lv 18 (venin bow)

32 hp, 16 atk, 14 AS, 88 hit, 33 avo, 14 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 13RKOed.

1x Paladin lv 4 (steel bow, steel axe, vulnerary)

34 hp, 24 atk, 15 AS, 94 hit, 34 avo, 15 def, 9 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.4 def, 7 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Lance Knight lv 16 (heavy spear)

31 hp, 20 atk, 7 AS, 100 hit, 18 avo, 13

Chapter 18 (Bexp available to Oscar 150/10=15, 700 to Mist (caught up))

Oscar 20/2.35

HP 38.9 Str 16.1 Mag 6.6 Skl 17 Spd 17.1 Luck 10.4 Def 16.3 Res 8.4

Titania --/8.42

HP 38.6 Str 15.15 Mag 5.75 Skl 17.2 Spd 17.5 Luck 14.15 Def 13.8 Res 10.15

Offense: strength loss made up for by axes’ extra might.

Defense:

3x Wyvern Rider lv 14-15 (steel lance)

31 hp, 24 atk, 9 AS, 95 hit, 21 avo, 15 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

4x Soldier lv 16-18 (steel lance)

34 hp, 21 atk, 9 AS, 98 hit, 22 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 18 (javelin)

33 hp, 16 atk, 10 AS, 89 hit, 24 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 39RKOed.

1x Halberdier lv 1 (short spear)

35 hp, 20 atk, 10 AS, 97 hit, 23 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

1x Archer lv 19 (steel bow)

29 hp, 20 atk, 14 AS, 107 hit, 33 avo, 11 def, 7 res, 8 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Fighter lv 20 (steel axe, hand axe, vulnerary)

40 hp, 27 atk, 12 AS, 92 hit, 29 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 5 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 3RKOed.

1x Warrior lv 1 (steel axe, iron bow)

40 hp, 26 atk, 10 AS, 89 hit, 24 avo, 10 def, 6 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Sage lv 1 (blizzard, wind)

27 hp, 20 atk, 6 AS, 97 hit, 14 avo, 8 def, 13 res, 5 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

2x Sage lv 1 (bolting, 1 thunder, 1 shade [d])

28 hp, 24 atk, 4 AS, 89 hit, 10 avo, 8 def, 14 res, 10 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 3RKOed. Titania is 3RKOed.

2x Bishop lv 1 (light, mend)

28 hp, 16 atk, 9 AS, 102 hit, 24 avo, 5 def, 18 res, 4 crit, 6 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Knight lv 16 (knight killer [d])

33 hp, 19 atk (26 eff), 0 AS, 91 hit, 3 avo, 17 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x General lv 1 (short spear, vulnerary)

32 hp, 22 atk, 6 AS, 93 hit, 15 avo, 17 def, 9 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x General lv 1 (laguz lance)

32 hp, 26 atk (38 eff), 2 AS, 98 hit, 7 avo, 18 def, 9 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

2x Sword Knight lv 19 (steel sword, vulnerary)

34 hp, 21 atk, 14 AS, 98 hit, 33 avo, 14 def, 8 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

Kayachey lv 8 (tornado [d], elixir)

32 hp, 24 atk, 15 AS, 137 hit, 47 avo, 10 def, 16 res, 7 crit, 17 cev

Oscar is 3RKOed. Titania is 3RKOed.

3x Raven lv 6 (beak, 1 vulnerary, 2 coin [1d])

33 hp, 19 atk, 17 AS, 119 hit, 35 avo, 12 def, 9 res, 7 crit, 1 cev

Oscar is 13RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

4x Raven lv 6-8 (beak, 2 coin [1d])

34 hp, 20 atk, 18 AS, 120 hit, 38 avo, 12 def, 9 res, 7 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

2x Lance Knight lv 16-17 (steel lance)

31 hp, 22 atk, 12 AS, 92 hit, 28 avo, 14 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Axe Knight lv 18 (steel axe, hand axe)

32 hp, 23 atk, 10 AS, 87 hit, 25 avo, 14 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Lance Knight lv 20 (steel lance, javelin)

33 hp, 24 atk, 15 AS, 91 hit, 31 avo, 14 def, 8 res, 5 crit, 6 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Paladin lv 1 (steel lance, iron bow, vulnerary)

31 hp, 23 atk, 13 AS, 92 hit, 30 avo, 14 def, 8 res, 5 crit, 6 cev

Oscar is 6RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

Chapter 19 (Bexp available to Oscar 450/10=45)

Oscar 20/3.57

HP 39.45 Str 16.55 Mag 6.8 Skl 17.5 Spd 17.55 Luck 10.7 Def 16.65 Res 8.7

Titania --/9.17

HP 39.4 Str 15.6 Mag 6 Skl 17.8 Spd 18 Luck 14.6 Def 14.2 Res 10.6

Offense: axe might makes up for point deficit.

Durability:

9x Raven lv 6-8 (beak)

34 hp, 20 atk, 18 AS, 120 hit, 38 avo, 12 def, 9 res, 7 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 14RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed

1x Fighter lv 18 (steel axe, hand axe)

39 hp, 26 atk, 10 AS, 88 hit, 25 avo, 10 def, 4 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Fighter lv 18 (short axe)

40 hp, 24 atk, 10 AS, 89 hit, 24 avo, 9 def, 5 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Warrior lv 3 (killer axe [d])

43 hp, 28 atk, 11 AS, 89 hit, 26 avo, 10 def, 6 res, 35 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 3RKOed.

2x Wyvern Rider lv 16-18 (steel lance, javelin)

33 hp, 25 atk, 10 AS, 98 hit, 24 avo, 17 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Wyvern Lord lv 1 (steel lance, short spear, vulnerary)

37 hp, 25 atk, 10 AS, 97 hit, 23 avo, 17 def, 5 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Sniper lv 1 (laguz bow [d])

29 hp, 21 atk, 12 AS, 109 hit, 28 avo, 11 def, 7 res, 22 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 18 (steel sword)

28 hp, 20 atk, 17 AS, 108 hit, 39 avo, 7 def, 4 res, 7 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

3x Myrmidon lv 18 (iron blade)

29 hp, 22 atk, 14 AS, 105 hit, 33 avo, 8 def, 4 res, 7 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 20 (armorslayer)

30 hp, 22 atk (30 eff), 14 AS, 118 hit, 34 avo, 8 def, 4 res, 8 crit, 6 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 20 (longsword [d])

28 hp, 20 atk (26 eff), 17 AS, 123 hit, 40 avo, 8 def, 5 res, 8 crit, 6 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Soldier lv 19 (steel lance)

34 hp, 21 atk, 10 AS, 101 hit, 25 avo, 11 def, 5 res, 6 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Lance Knight lv 16 (steel lance, javelin)

31 hp, 22 atk, 11 AS, 90 hit, 26 avo, 12 def, 5 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Bow Knight lv 17 (steel bow)

32 hp, 21 atk, 14 AS, 91 hit, 33 avo, 13 def, 7 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

2x Archer lv 16 (steel bow, ballista, 1 vulnerary)

26 hp, 18 atk, 11 AS, 104 hit, 26 avo, 9 def, 6 res, 7 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 40RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Archer lv 18 (iron bow, ballista, vulnerary)

28 hp, 16 atk, 12 AS, 121 hit, 28 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 8 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is unkillable. Titania is 20RKOed.

Homasa lv 11 (sonic sword, silver sword, elixir)

37 hp, 22 atk, 20 AS, 114 hit, 52 avo, 11 def, 12 res, 23 crit, 12 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

Chapter 20 (Bexp available to Oscar 750/10=75)

Oscar 20/4.95

HP 40 Str 17 Mag 7 Skl 18 Spd 18 Luck 11 Def 17 Res 9

Titania --/10.02

HP 40.2 Str 16.05 Mag 6.25 Skl 18.4 Spd 18.5 Luck 15.05 Def 14.6 Res 11.05

Offense: Point deficit is made up for by axe might.

Durability:

2x Soldier lv 19-20 (steel lance)

37 hp, 21 atk, 11 AS, 103 hit, 27 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 7 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

2x Halberdier lv 1 (steel lance)

35 hp, 21 atk, 10 AS, 97 hit, 23 avo, 11 def, 7 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

1x Halberdier lv 2 (steel lance, short spear)

34 hp, 22 atk, 11 AS, 99 hit, 25 avo, 12 def, 7 res, 6 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

2x Archer lv 19-20 (steel bow)

29 hp, 19 atk, 12 AS, 109 hit, 29 avo, 12 def, 7 res, 8 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Sniper lv 1 (steel bow, longbow)

28 hp, 20 atk, 13 AS, 104 hit, 30 avo, 10 def, 7 res, 22 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 10RKOed.

1x Fighter lv 20 (steel axe, vulnerary)

40 hp, 27 atk, 12 AS, 92 hit, 29 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 5 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Fighter lv 20 (hand axe, vulnerary)

40 hp, 22 atk, 11 AS, 80 hit, 27 avo, 11 def, 6 res, 5 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Myrmidon lv 20 (laguzslayer)

30 hp, 22 atk (31 eff), 16 AS, 115 hit, 38 avo, 9 def, 5 res, 8 crit, 6 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

3x Wyvern lv 15-17 (steel lance)

32 hp, 24 atk, 10 AS, 98 hit, 24 avo, 16 def, 6 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 6RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Wyvern lv 17 (knight killer)

34 hp, 21 atk (28 eff), 7 AS, 95 hit, 17 avo, 17 def, 6 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

2x Wyvern lv 18 (steel lance)

35 hp, 26 atk, 10 AS, 100 hit, 24 avo, 17 def, 7 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Wyvern lv 18 (short spear)

33 hp, 24 atk, 10 AS, 98 hit, 24 avo, 18 def, 7 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 6RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

2x Wyvern lv 19 (steel lance)

35 hp, 26 atk, 9 AS, 98 hit, 22 avo, 18 def, 8 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Sword Knight lv 18 (laguzslayer)

33 hp, 22 atk (29 eff), 13 AS, 98 hit, 31 avo, 14 def, 6 res, 4 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 10RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Sword Knight lv 19 (steel sword)

31 hp, 20 atk, 15 AS, 100 hit, 35 avo, 15 def, 8 res, 5 crit, 5 cev

Oscar is 20RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Paladin lv 2 (killer bow)

32 hp, 22 atk, 14 AS, 97 hit, 32 avo, 14 def, 9 res, 34 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 8RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

2x Knight lv 18 (steel lance, vulnerary)

32 hp, 23 atk, 5 AS, 94 hit, 14 avo, 20 def, 7 res, 5 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Mage lv 19 (elwind, vulnerary)

26 hp, 20 atk, 12 AS, 115 hit, 27 avo, 7 def, 16 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 5RKOed.

1x Bishop lv 2 (shine [d], physic)

29 hp, 18 atk, 7 AS, 98 hit, 21 avo, 5 def, 19 res, 4 crit, 7 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Sage lv 1 (bolganoe, mend)

28 hp, 21 atk, 7 AS, 109 hit, 16 avo, 8 def, 14 res, 5 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 4RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Sage lv 1 (elfire, mend)

28 hp, 18 atk, 11 AS, 107 hit, 24 avo, 8 def, 13 res, 5 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

1x Sage lv 3 (blizzard, elwind)

28 hp, 22 atk, 8 AS, 101 hit, 18 avo, 9 def, 14 res, 6 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 3RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

Shiharam lv 10 (tomahawk [d], full guard, elixir)

45 hp, 33 atk, 14 AS, 100 hit, 29 avo, 21 def, 13 res, 8 crit, 1 cev

Oscar is 3RKOed. Titania is 3RKOed.

1x Mage lv 18 (elwind)

26 hp, 17 atk, 12 AS, 113 hit, 27 avo, 7 def, 14 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 7RKOed.

1x Sage lv 1 (elwind, heal)

28 hp, 16 atk, 12 AS, 114 hit, 26 avo, 8 def, 14 res, 5 crit, 2 cev

Oscar is 6RKOed. Titania is 8RKOed.

4x Wyvern lv 15-17 (steel lance, 2 javelin)

32 hp, 25 atk, 10 AS, 100 hit, 24 avo, 16 def, 7 res, 6 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 5RKOed. Titania is 4RKOed.

1x Knight lv 18 (steel lance)

33 hp, 23 atk, 4 AS, 92 hit, 12 avo, 20 def, 8 res, 4 crit, 4 cev

Oscar is 7RKOed. Titania is 6RKOed.

As shown by this data, aside from sword using enemies, Oscar and Titania are either functionally invincible (at least 5RKOed, as that will never happen if you play smart) or there is a round or two difference, if that. As such, it seems clear that Oscar will need more than a 2-3 point defense lead to actually develope a noteworthy durability lead. As such, and since it's incredibly tedious, I'm not going to keep doing this for every chapter. Once Oscar develops what I'm eyeballing as a noteworthy durability lead (4-5 defense and some health) I'll begin to make note of it. Once that, or Oscar's offense lead becomes more than can be made up for by the extra might of axes, Oscar will then be considered to be the winner.

If someone really wants me to continue, I will, but I'd much rather not.

Chapter 21 (Bexp available to Oscar 550/10=55)

Oscar 20/6.22

HP 41.1 Str 17.9 Mag 7.4 Skl 19 Spd 18.9 Luck 11.6 Def 17.7 Res 9.6

Titania --/10.77

HP 40.2 Str 16.05 Mag 6.25 Skl 18.4 Spd 18.5 Luck 15.05 Def 14.6 Res 11.05

Chapter 22 (Bexp available to Oscar 600/10=60)

Oscar 20/7.82

HP 41.65 Str 18.35 Mag 7.6 Skl 19.5 Spd 19.35 Luck 11.9 Def 18.05 Res 9.9

Titania --/11.52

HP 41 Str 16.5 Mag 6.5 Skl 19 Spd 19 Luck 15.5 Def 15 Res 11.5

Chapter 23 (Bexp available to Oscar 860/10=86)

Oscar 20/9.66

HP 42.75 Str 19.25 Mag 8 Skl 20.5 Spd 20.25 Luck 12.5 Def 18.75 Res 10.5

Titania --/12.27

HP 42.6 Str 16.95 Mag 6.75 Skl 19.6 Spd 19.5 Luck 15.95 Def 15.4 Res 11.95

Oscar meets the requirements for a noticeable win. +4 rounded defense and +1 attack.

Chapter 24 (Bexp available to Oscar 600/10= 60)

Oscar 20/10.96

HP 43.3 Str 19.7 Mag 8.2 Skl 21 Spd 20.7 Luck 12.8 Def 19.1 Res 10.8

Titania --/13.27

HP 42.6 Str 17.4 Mag 7 Skl 20.2 Spd 20 Luck 16.4 Def 15.8 Res 12.4

Oscar keeps the strength lead, but loses the noteworthy durability lead as it it drops to +3 defense. Gains a noticeable, but not necessarily noteworthy AS lead.

Chapter 25 (Bexp available to Oscar 650/10=65)

Oscar 20/12.18

HP 44.4 Str 20.6 Mag 8.6 Skl 22 Spd 21.6 Luck 13.4 Def 19.8 Res 11.4

Titania --/14.27

HP 43.4 Str 17.85 Mag 7.25 Skl 20.8 Spd 20.5 Luck 16.85 Def 16.2 Res 12.85

Oscar regains defense lead.

Chapter 26 (Bexp available to Oscar 600/10=60)

Oscar 20/13.38

HP 44.95 Str 21.05 Mag 8.8 Skl 22.5 Spd 22.05 Luck 13.7 Def 20.15 Res 11.7

Titania --/15.27

HP 44.2 Str 18.3 Mag 7.5 Skl 21.4 Spd 21 Luck 17.3 Def 16.6 Res 12.85

Loses noteworthy defense lead.

Chapter 27 (Bexp available to Oscar 900/10=90)

Oscar 20/14.68

HP 45.5 Str 21.5 Mag 9 Skl 23 Spd 22.5 Luck 14 Def 20.5 Res 12

Titania --/16.27

HP 45 Str 18.75 Mag 7.75 Skl 22 Spd 21.5 Luck 17.75 Def 17 Res 13.75

Chapter 28 (Bexp available to Oscar 900/10=90)

Oscar 20/15.98

HP 46.05 Str 21.95 Mag 9.2 Skl 23.5 Spd 22.95 Luck 14.3 Def 20.85 Res 12.3

Titania --/17.27

HP 45.8 Str 19.2 Mag 8 Skl 22.6 Spd 22 Luck 18.2 Def 17.4 Res 14.2

Regains noteworthy defense lead.

Endgame (Bexp available to Oscar 1100/10 = 110)

Oscar 20/18.08

HP 47.7 Str 23.3 Mag 9.8 Skl 25 Spd 24.3 Luck 15.2 Def 21.9 Res 13.2

Titania --/18.27

HP 46.6 Str 19.65 Mag 8.25 Skl 23.2 Spd 22.5 Luck 18.65 Def 17.8 Res 14.65

Oscar has +1.1 health, +2 attack, +2 AS, -4 luck, +4 def, and -1 res.

By this point Oscar is definitely better. But Titania was noticeably better for about 12 chapters. For at least 8 of those, she is head and shoulders above Oscar. From then until chapter 23, they are virtually identical. From there on out, Oscar has a noticeable lead over Titania.

So chapter 1-8: Titania >>> Oscar. 9-12 > Oscar. 13-23 Titania = Oscar. 24-Endgame Titania < Oscar. So Titania has 12 chapters of being superior, 10 chapters of being similar, and 6 chapters of being inferior.

Anyone who still feels Oscar is better than Titania, please state your reasons. Saying I favored her, unless you can demonstrate how, is not a valid argument.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/643003-fire-emblem-awakening/63563215

Anyway, from what I remember, it came down to Oscar being better than Titania after about chapter 15 because of his supports (which I ignored because that was too much extra work). I'm still not completely sold on that, but I can at least believe it. So, IIRC, it came down to Titania > Oscar for about 10 chapters, Titania = Oscar for 5, and Oscar > Titania for 15. So Oscar has a net 5 chapters on her. Even then, this is comparing her to one of the absolute best units in the game, and she's still never bad.

[-Cynthia-]

^ Oscar probably will promote before Chapter 17, but Titania's weapon ranks are nice late game for ORKOing Wyvern Knights and shit.

Anyway, the point is that Titania is the best unit for the first few chapters of the game and never really falls off because FE9 is quite easy. Sure, Kieran or whoever may mount some small leads, but Titania is still a unit that ORKOs most enemy types with very high durability and high movement.

You'd think if one would complain about jeigans in high tiers they'd discuss FE6 Marcus or FE11 Jagen or other jeigans that actually fall off quite a bit, not Titania and Seth.

Edited April 8, 2013 by -Cynthia-

[The Fush]

^ Oscar probably will promote before Chapter 17, but Titania's weapon ranks are nice late game for ORKOing Wyvern Knights and shit.

Anyway, the point is that Titania is the best unit for the first few chapters of the game and never really falls off because FE9 is quite easy. Sure, Kieran or whoever may mount some small leads, but Titania is still a unit that ORKOs most enemy types with very high durability and high movement.

You'd think if one would complain about jeigans in high tiers they'd discuss FE6 Marcus or FE11 Jagen or other jeigans that actually fall off quite a bit, not Titania and Seth.

Yeah, I was under the impression that units like Titania were considered more "Oifey" than "Jeigan". Units like Marcus and Isadora seem more Jeigan to me, and they should probably be discussed more than the ones being discussed here.

Although I suppose it's a matter of opinion as to which units seem Jeigan to someone and which units seem Oifey to them. After all, the RNG does have a tendency to do funny things at times that can change how useful your said Jeigans are.

But in terms of general growth rates and bases, I can understand the points being made in this thread.

[dondon151]

my god, there is no difference between what is an oifey and a jagen archetype

[MacLovin]

People forgot about Dagda >_>

[The Fush]

my god, there is no difference between what is an oifey and a jagen archetype

There is, actually (if you count them as archetypes):

Oifeys are pre-promotes that still gain great stats in the later parts of the game due to high growth rates and decent starting stats, and possibly supports too.

Jeigans are pre-promotes that start off with great stats but fall behind later in the game. Granted though, these units are still saveable with a dash of RNG Luck and some supporting.

While there can be debate as to WHO fits these archetypes, the actual definitions of these archetypes are different.

Going back on topic, I'll just put my own opinion as to why Jeigans are in high tiers; because in Hard Modes, which tier lists are done for, every enemy usually outclasses your units in the beginning of the game, and the Jeigan units are the only ones that can stand more than a small chance against them, making them invaluable in the early chapters. The beginning, in my opinion, is pretty paramount to the ending aswell, as what you've done in the early parts of the game determines the potential of your units (inb4 RNG derps) in the mid-late game, and that's why Jeigans are so valuable to you; they give you a piggyback through the beginning and then pack up and say "I've made you powerful; now go out there and own them for me."

Granted, Jeigan units CAN be usable in the late game, but what they contribute in the early game, and that their stats and growths are still decent, are what make them so high on tier lists.

Edited April 8, 2013 by The Fush

[CT075]

it's always amazing to realize that the actual oifaye falls off a lot harder than most of the supposed jeigans

that is, if we're going by that definition then oifaye is less of an oifaye and more of a jeigan (which is retarded)

Edited April 8, 2013 by CT075

[The Fush]

it's always amazing to realize that the actual oifaye falls off a lot harder than most of the supposed jeigans

that is, if we're going by that definition then oifaye is less of an oifaye and more of a jeigan (which is retarded)

Wait, seriously?

I've never played some of the really early fire emblem games, so I wasn't really aware; the definition of an Oifey today still stands, (although it depends on what you think the definition should be and it's entirely a matter of opinion so therefore I'm dumb) but... ok, Oifaye, I hate you now ;_;

Well, the more you know, I guess.

[CT075]

i don't understand how it can be a different archetype on it's own when there are like... three units that follow the actual 'jeigan' archetype as defined

FE1: the original jeigan doesn't really ever fall off ever (who needs levels when you have stupidly powerful statboosters)

FE2: does this game even have a jeigan

FE3: book 1 jeigan doesn't fall off really, i never got around to finishing book 2 but from what I played arran didn't really stomp that hard (nor did he ever start stomping) so i guess you could call him a jeigan?

FE4: sigurd doesn't fall off. period. Oifaye qualifies as an actual jeigan more than most of the rest of this list (he does have some advantages in C6/C7 maybe even C8 but he tends to fall off really hard at around c9). The other possibility for Gen 2 is Fin who is about the same thing except joins later and falls off a bit later

FE5: Evayle falls off by not existing? I guess? Dagda is hilarious and Fin doesn't fall off (nor does he stomp hard enough earlygame imo but that's just me)

FE6: Marcus wears out pretty badly

FE7: Marcus doesn't wear out if you're doing it right, nor does whichever paladin you promoted in Lyn's Mode (if you chose to do that)

FE8: I think everyone knows that Seth in fact gets stronger

FE9: ditto for titania

FE10: who would the jeigan even be? sothe is mediocre later so maybe him? Volug can grow pretty big so not him? this one's weird because of promotion

FE11: reclass makes jeigan last a lot longer than you'd think

FE12: same for arran

i don't own fe13 so i'm not going to comment on that, but out of 12 games that makes... 4 units who follow the "jeigan" archetype as you defined (one of whom is oifaye himself)? i'm not really sure how that constitutes a separate archetype

Edited April 8, 2013 by CT075

[Refa]

archetypes are just a way for people to shoehorn a bunch of units with similar functions together so that they can avoid thinking about the individual units strengths and weaknesses.

so it's not only the jeigan one thats stoopid!

fe7!marcus is a jeigan i better not use him!

whoah ewan is an est he must have amazing growths and be totally amazing in comparison to everyone else at 10/20/20, must put him on team

Edited April 8, 2013 by Refa

[The Fush]

archetypes are just a way for people to shoehorn a bunch of units with similar functions together so that they can avoid thinking about the individual units strengths and weaknesses.

fe7!marcus is a jeigan i better not use him!

whoah ewan is an est he must have amazing growths and be totally amazing in comparison to everyone else at 10/20/20, must put him on team

Jesus christ, it's not like I was stating that Archetypes are the Word of God. All I was saying is that to most people, the word "Jeigan" or "Oifey" generally means one thing TODAY, regardless of what the actual unit was like back then.

If you don't care about archetypes in the slightest, that's fine. But the reason some units are classified into archetypes is because they GENERALLY (matter of opinion) fit the definition of that archetype. And it doesn't mean that there can't be variations in that archetype either. Simply, there are some people who use these archetypes and some people who don't, and you should also respect the opinion of those who do (unless they're stupid).

...also, since when was being a Jeigan a reason to NOT use a unit?

Also I did not at any point state Seth as a Jeigan have you gone mad

Edited April 8, 2013 by The Fush

[Ciarre]

Can you seriously not tell that he's joking?

It's just Refa being Refa.

Edited April 8, 2013 by CR-S01

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Oifaye advantage

1. .... Mounts maybe? This is Mounts Emblem after all

2. He has amazing skills

3. Give him like Brave Sword and SSS and he become good. But then again so does EVERYBODY ELSE.

Even with that i kinda doubt Oifaye can solo some of the bosses

As for FE1 Jeigan, he falls off during around Minerva Chapter and some higher because Dracoknights are retarded

And then chapter 21 comes

Lets say with things that you can get in chapter 21, and maybe some Angel Robes, you can have an army filled with several hax character(not like you even need anyone other than Marth, or Wendell or something), even with Jeigan who caps Speed, Skill, Str, and Luck. This Jeigan can solo the portion of the stage that he get in the final level(a level that all you need to do is like.... unlock a door, clean two sides, block the reinforcement spot, and have Marth solo the entire stage)

So, yeah assuming you give as much favoritism possible, Oifaye actually falls off MUCH harder than Jeigan

The archetype should be named Sirius for all i care, at least its more accurate

...also, since when was being a Jeigan a reason to NOT use a unit?

"X IS A JEIGAN AND EXP THIEF OMG DONT USE"

Anyone who played FE will hear that at least once

nevermind the context of EXP thief is retarded

Hey guys, Marth is an EXP thief, so i should not use him, but he can solo maps and kill most boss in one turn!!

MODEDIT: sigh.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Integrity

[Chiki]

Even with my minimal use of Titania, it's very difficult to bring Mia to level 1, Marcia to level 20, and Oscar and Kieran to promotion.

The way I use Titania is to completely ditch her after Chapter 11. She's useless after that point and is only good for the first 11 chapters of the game. Because after that point she simply isn't necessary. She can't be used in efficiency runs, since exp is so tight in the first place. Using her would be a recipe for disaster after that point.

If Titania is a unit that can't be used after.a certain point, can she truly be said to be better than Marcia? Even if she's a detriment to your team after 11, and can cost you turns? Even considering that Titania never saves as many turns compared to Marcia?

By your logic, we should be able to take Edward out of 1-P. Think of how difficult it will be without him, and how many turns it will cost! He should be top tier above everyone else right? No way. That very logic is why I defined complexity as something else.

You can't consider complexity in that way because it falls prey to that kind of logic. Complexity is simply every chapter considered by itself with no regard to characters other than their average levels. It's important to prevent characters like Edward from claiming the top of the tier list.

Jill is high simply because of her potential to do nearly as much as Marcia can, though not as well and below Titania.

S-rank Volug is useless, and Sothe doesn't help much either, assuming you've already trained Jill to a point where she can take multiple hits from laguz. If you do neglect Jill for Sothe, Nolan and Volug, you lose turns from your 3-6, 3-12, 3-13, 4-P, 4-3 and 4-E-1 clears. See all my vids.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Olwen

[Rehab]

Can you seriously not tell that he's joking?

It's just Refa being Refa.

To be fair, the poor dude did just join yesterday :p

The deal with Oifaye IMO is that in like any game other than FE4, the dude would be a godsend. I mean, the motherfucker does start out with more than twice Seliph's strength, speed, defense and skill, and his growths have a mean average just a bit less than 40%, the only growths of import less than 40% being speed, defense and resistance, and the former [two] at a still-adequate 30%. Just going by stats, nothing altered, Oifaye would stomp FE7 Marcus, for example.

His problem is that by the standard of most of the other entries in the series, he's living in a world gone mad. A world the WTA often isn't enough to make spears beat swords because they're just that heavy, where your weapon rank is determined at birth, and where totally unbalanced weapons choose their wielders, and Oifaye isn't among them.

And despite his falling off, he can still take care of business in his own game, too

Seliph may be the people's champion, but Oifaye is grit incarnate

Edited April 8, 2013 by Rehab

[Life]

I'm going to get this out of the way now (may reply more later tonight depending on friends). Yes, I did propose a different tier list. Namely, a hybrid tier list in which units were ranked on three categories (stats/combat, utility/flexibility, and efficiency/speed) on a 1-10 scale for each with an 'average' score determining overall placement on the list. The idea was that, by doing this, four separate lists could exist simultaneously and independent of each other while still holding an overall unity. Units could be compared on multiple different aspects without it directly impacting the rankings on another list and multiple playstyles could be represented at once. Power and stats for people who didn't care about speed and only wanted a strong team, speed for those who simply wanted to clear maps fast, and utility/flexibility for those who wanted an adaptable/flexible team.

The list never got off the ground.

I started off by taking the current list and reviewing character going from Titania down to Tanith and stopping at Tanith as I did not want to write the entire list and didn't want to shove people out via a mass wall of text right off the bat. Spoilers for those who think I despise Titania, she still came in at 'the top' but was nowhere near as OMGWTF as she is in the LTC tiers. Instead she simply managed to score very highly in all three categories, but not dominate them (Kieran beat her in stats for example, but ).

Almost immediately people started complaining about my giving supports value and movement not being 'da best stat eva' and giving all three categories equal importance. No one tried to suggest any actual improvements or attempt to work with the list. After three pages of fruitless arguing with no one even bothering to try and instead decrying that the list, a list that had just been made, wasn't complete, and had not undergone debate yet as it had only just started, wasn't perfect. I gave up, convinced that the FE tier list debaters are close-minded morons who couldn't grasp the concept of a tier in any other terms than 'OMG LTC!' and haven't even bothered since since no tier standard I could possibly suggest that isn't LTC would be considered or get anything other than insulting and jeering remarks.

Have a look if you want: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35963&st=0

Five days late on this one but whatever.

Snowy, there was a reason why I tanned your hide on that list. Because supports were being considered more important than... flying or staff utility.

We insult you not because of your stances. We insult you because of your general lack of intelligence. The two become entertwined when you fail to support any position that you hold. The issue is that you have a misunderstanding of what viable logic is (Titania being fantastic) or a clear ignorance for number-based facts (Lethe vs. Stefan). Learn the difference (and elementary level math while you're at it).

[Renall]

I think this topic can be summarized to "playstyle differences". Everything being argued has at least some basis in subjectivity (some is more objective), and there is no "right answer".

Everyone is going to have their own opinions about things. Deal with it.

Here's the thing though that sort of invalidates the entire tired debate: The topic says "high tiers," not "top of top tier" or even "top tier."

In almost any metric, and under almost any playstyle, a Jeigan-archetype character can be argued to be very high-tier. The only instances where they cannot are basically ones where you operate on the basis of whether you like the characters, or for people who prefer characters who get lots of levels and don't care whether they're good. Those are unmeasurable playstyles based on entirely personal subjective standards, so of course nobody's going to bother making a tier list for that.

Which leaves only tier lists based on some comparable and debatable standard. And in almost any such list I can think of, the Jeigan character will be "high tier." Not necessarily top tier, but certainly pretty high. The sole place they'd be bottom tier, in my mind, is "maximum experience gained, no other factors matter," as in that specific instance the highest-tier units are the ones that start at the lowest possible level and remain there as long as possible while also getting experience. Fred would be at the bottom of this list for Awakening, Avatar would (still) be at the top.

Anyway, from what I remember, it came down to Oscar being better than Titania after about chapter 15 because of his supports (which I ignored because that was too much extra work). I'm still not completely sold on that, but I can at least believe it. So, IIRC, it came down to Titania > Oscar for about 10 chapters, Titania = Oscar for 5, and Oscar > Titania for 15. So Oscar has a net 5 chapters on her. Even then, this is comparing her to one of the absolute best units in the game, and she's still never bad.

Of course we can complicate this further still by pointing out that not all chapters are created equal. Lyn's pretty awesome in the rigged tutorial for her mode in FE7, but I doubt anyone gives a crap about the fact that she's the top contributor in an almost-impossible-to-fail tutorial map where she's the only character. Or Mist's contribution to the Black Knight map in FE9 if you flee from it (which is basically always going to be faster than beating him, so Mist does jack-all).

Similarly, the chapters where Fred shines in FEA Lunatic are probably the most bitch-hard in the entire game on an order of magnitude greater than anything else, just due to how everybody but him sucks and you're trying to get Avatar up to speed. Those relative contributions are quite high, even though most other units are going to blow Fred away for a larger quantity of chapters.

Even if you're like Olwen and drop Titania 11 chapters in, it's still somewhat questionable whether the weight of some of those chapters matter more than multiple later-game chapters. Even if the unit entirely dominates in them.

Also it's pretty funny how terrible Oifey is compared to other examples of that sub-archetype. I think the term only really became popular because we didn't have sufficient access to FE1-3 for people to realize it's a load of crap and he wasn't really the "first good Jeigan." Or even arguably that good a Jeigan. He's basically the John Stockton of Gen 2, the ultimate trashman. Okay actually he's more like some other guy on that team and Leaf is Stockton and Seliph is Karl Malone, I'm not good at metaphors.

[bottlegnomes]

it's always amazing to realize that the actual oifaye falls off a lot harder than most of the supposed jeigans

that is, if we're going by that definition then oifaye is less of an oifaye and more of a jeigan (which is retarded)

Pretty much. Oifaye is really one of the more balanced Jeigans. He's potentially very useful early on and remains passable throughout the game, but doesn't stomp any part of the game. He's in between FE6 Marcus and FE7 Marcus.

Plus there's the fact that the term Oifaye has become corrupted. It used to mean a Jeigan who remains useful throughout the game; he/she will get surpassed by other units without showing the other units favoritism, but will never fall so far behind that he/she is bad. Now it means a Jeigan who is always better than, or at worst, comparable to, every other character unless you show the other characters favoritism. FE7 Marcus is about the only Jeigan who would actually fit the term Oifaye since Oifaye himself. And even then, Marcus is probably better than Oifaye.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Considering the most common user of the term, Oifaye actually means "Early crappy prepromote Palladin with good growth"