Avatar the Last Airbender Mafia: D4ends 5/2 at 9:30 PM EST

[Psych]

Also, I saw Grassbridger reading the thread a little while back, but he's not reading it anymore? Would be cool if he gave opinions.

Psych's posts seem to be very sparse and just sort of throw stuff around without a real reason behind them. The most memorable thing I can remember him doing is him outing he got redirected, and I didn't even really like the manner in which he did it.

well excuse me for not throwing out info willy-nilly like the rest of the players in this game

[Prims]

With the ITP outted as Slayer though, I guess my BBM case has lost reasoning.

Except it didn't have any in the first place. IMO your Shinori vote is a votepark and your opinions are mostly inconclusive one-liners, which combined with the awkward BBM case doesn't look like legit scumhunting.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

I buy "FtP is busy and has a (bad) different voting mindset" but don't really think that makes him town, just neutral.

From a townie's PoV, Slayer could easily be mafia who didn't think claiming he skimmed his role PM would save him, so people treating him as confirmed third is weird. He's not living past Day 2, in any case.

Would like votals. Would also like to know who Psych thinks is scum.

[Grassbridger]

Hey guys, sorry but real life intervened hard this weekend--I'm in the clear now though. I just read through the whole thread (up to #170) so I'm just going to post my first reads on everyone (roughly in order of first post in the thread).

Sorry in advance for the wall of text.

BBM - is making a lot of sense to me; seems town to me but that's just a general lack of scum vibes.

FtP - pushing the element claims is kind of strange given that everyone turned against it early. Overall isn't overly scummy, but there's a lot of apologies for being unused to things and little actual content so... I don't know.

Sangyul - I feel like people haven't talked about this claim nearly enough. (Well, Mancer has, but in all the wrong ways.) People have glossed over a slip in the language: when claiming Roku he said "I'm the previous avatar, my element is fire nation". If Rein is correct, above, and it's Team Avatar versus Fire Nation, then this would be an easy thing for mafia to say since their role PMs say Fire Nation, but less likely for town because the only time Fire would be mentioned on a town PM it wouldn't have Nation next to it. He also didn't claim the name of the character, just its description, which seems odd to me but I don't know why. All in all, he seems scummy but a reasonable explanation could convince me otherwise.

Rein - just now made the assertion that "it's Team Avatar vs the Fire Nation". Town roles certainly don't say that; they just say team avatar. So either Rein is guessing the obvious, or he's scum. I lean toward scum at the moment, but maybe I'm just paranoid.

Eclipse - makes good points, I think town

Psych - has made opposite reads as me (BBM and Eclipse scummy) so I'm suspicious.

Mancer - I hate to say it, but he rings true... I get a suspicion, but I get suspicious with everybody. I believe his claim.

SB - I believe his claim

Elieson - very scummy. Everyone has been saying why.

No read - Strege, Blitz, Bluedoom, Shinori, kdanger, Prims

Slayerx - obviously slipped up. I believe his claim but should still get lynched eventually because 3rd party. And if Elie gave him a fake character claim on purpose then they might both be scum.

All in all, best mafia guesses are Elie, Psych, Rein, and FtP. Maybe Sangyul.

##vote Elieson

[Psych]

Except it didn't have any in the first place. IMO your Shinori vote is a votepark and your opinions are mostly inconclusive one-liners, which combined with the awkward BBM case doesn't look like legit scumhunting.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

I buy "FtP is busy and has a (bad) different voting mindset" but don't really think that makes him town, just neutral.

From a townie's PoV, Slayer could easily be mafia who didn't think claiming he skimmed his role PM would save him, so people treating him as confirmed third is weird. He's not living past Day 2, in any case.

Would like votals. Would also like to know who Psych thinks is scum.

just mancer, bbm, and eclipse atm

kiryn and shinori are starting to get their due to their promises to post and not coming through but that's mostly just lurking type stuff

I'm also liking kay's arguements so kay and prims are my current town reads, but elie is leaning there too

[Psych]

also i am going to bed now

[Prims]

Why do you think Elie is town?

[Strege]

This strikes me as interesting and definately gives me a Scumclipse vibe since I feel like that's something she'd say to want to use for later.

eclipse has used that wording before, but I don't have the time atm to figure out nested quotes and multiquotes between pages in the same post. I don't know if you're correct or if she just likes to keep fluff to a minimum (which seems fairly likely based on what I've seen). I think BBM could have just been excited about the catch, though I'll agree it could have been a slip, and while I'm disagreeing with you (sorry) I'd like to see more thoroughly supported analysis from Prims -- most of whose observations have come in short, one sentence paragraphs.

I don't mean to pick on SB, but I've tried to begin this discussion before and haven't been satisfied by the responses. This might just be an experience thing. If we're so quick to default-lynch Slayer for being a survivor -- a role that could be an obstacle at the end of the game -- why don't we care more about SB -- whose role could be an obstacle every night? Remember, we've all sort of accepted (for reasons I won't question right now) that a redirection role exists, which means a claimed SB is dangerous even if claimed. Why haven't we talked about this?

[Strege]

Regarding Slayer: I recognize that he could be mafia, but what I'm hearing is that we might lynch a confirmed survivor in the same situation. My question is about our attitude toward SB.

[Prims]

The short sentences support my thoughts well enough if you've been reading the game; no point in wasting words. On that note, do my posts make me Mafia or not?

SB's claim isn't proven negative utility since we don't know the redirector is scum. Additionally, it could be a bus driver (meaning it'd have to target SB and sui to redirect to him), and some of us don't even target people in the first place.

[Grassbridger]

I'm also liking kay's arguements so kay and prims are my current town reads, but elie is leaning there too

Really? By my count, Kay has posted exactly twice. One was at the start with a random vote, and another was jumping on the Elie bandwagon for (paraphrasing here) "the same reasons others already said." So I'm not sure exactly what arguments you're referring to.

Not sure if this is a really heavyhanded attempt to bolster your mafia friends, but that's what it seems like.

[Fear The Pika]

So, if you all want my thoughts on Elieson, I'll summarize them.

1. Saying he believes Mancer is town, albiet playing poorly, but is willing to lynch him is not exactly town behavior.

2. Calling out BBM for saying anti-town instead of maf is kind of lame. I can see where he's coming from, looking for TPI shouldn't be first on the agenda, but they shouldn't be ignored if something doesn't look scummy, or look like town, but it's not maf behavior.

3. To me, assuming there may be a harmful TPI/Maf role based on elements makes sense. So why Elie is essentially accusing BBM of having said role simply because he brought the idea to the table is weird. Correct me if I'm wrong and that's not what happened.

Unbolded vote: Elieson

Why unbolded? Simply because I haven't kept track of the votes and don't want to accidentally hammer.

Now as for Slayer.

Yeah, he's TPI, even though he claims it's just a Vivor role. As I said before, if something better didn't show up, I'd rather lynch a known non-townie (because Vivor isn't necessarily anti-town) than someone who may be town. But as this is a completely different way of doing things than I'm used to, apparently stuff gets done on D1. So as a last-resort sort of lynch, I'd nominate him. For now, Elieson warrents enough discussion to possibly be lynched instead of Slayer.

Also, for anyone who thinks Kay is town, I'd just like to know why? Her two posts read more null to me than town, and I'd like to know the thought process behind it.

[Zanarkin]

Slayerx - obviously slipped up. I believe his claim but should still get lynched eventually because 3rd party. And if Elie gave him a fake character claim on purpose then they might both be scum.

Unless there is like 3 kills or more at night phase that cannot be explained and i'm still alive, there wouldn't be a reason to lynch me. Its only going to waste town's lynch if they do and i turn out not to be lying. Now, they do not want me to live in case they go into Lylo because i could side with mafia. Of course thats assuming I would. I just want to win the game, and i don't care when it ends. Most people want me shot though, because this just reveals the possibility of a vigilante.

[MancerNecro]

This is dumb as hell. It's Team Avatar vs the Fire Nation. This isn't that complex. I don't know if everybody just missed the part where I said my role cares about elements or what.

I'm wondering what to make of this because it isn't exclusively stated that the Fire Nation was the scum team.

Do you guys think this is a slip (like what Slayer did) or that I am thinking too much into it?

[Prims]

I want to hear Rein's explanation for why he assumed the Fire Nation was scum before anybody gives their thoughts on that.

Slayer, think of it this way: what reason are you giving us to keep you alive right now?

Grassbridger should get an avatar.

[MancerNecro]

I noticed that Grassbridger had also pointed out the Fire Nation thing from reading a bit more in detail.

[Zanarkin]

Slayer, think of it this way: what reason are you giving us to keep you alive right now?

Did I not say early that i would be willing to vote (and as well help them scumhunt if needed and my skills allow) with the town at all cases, as long as I am not killed? The benefit for town is another vote and even if the mafia goes and kills me town is not hurt.

[MancerNecro]

I don't really like Grassbridger's list post, it basically just lists stuff, contains a little bit of sheeping (particularly the points on Elieson) and allows him to just vote anyone on it and coast.

The list post in and of itself was also not useful since it was mostly fluff and "I think he's towny yet scummy" throughout it.

I don't particularly like FTP's recent play because the reluctance to vote and the obstinacy in trying to scumhunt and help town is pinging me off, especially when he brings in real life stuff as an excuse for it (you could just vote since you've proven you can post or just shut up until you reach home and can place your vote).

[BBM]

The difference is that SB, if telling the truth, is still a member of the town who wants to help town win. Slayer, if telling the truth, is not a member of the town and has no reason to help town win. The worst case of lynching Slayer is that we lynch somebody who isn't guaranteed to want to help us, while the worst case of lynching SB is that we lynch a member of the town.

Slayer, if you're going to help town win, where is your scumhunting? Your content so far has consisted solely of voting Mancer for his Boron shenanigans.

[MancerNecro]

It's also not "I can't vote" but "I'm not willing to vote" that he's saying too.

[Zanarkin]

The difference is that SB, if telling the truth, is still a member of the town who wants to help town win. Slayer, if telling the truth, is not a member of the town and has no reason to help town win. The worst case of lynching Slayer is that we lynch somebody who isn't guaranteed to want to help us, while the worst case of lynching SB is that we lynch a member of the town.

Slayer, if you're going to help town win, where is your scumhunting? Your content so far has consisted solely of voting Mancer for his Boron shenanigans.

I'm not willing to help until you guys decide to join with me

[BBM]

Psych's counter to my point against him was terrible, btw. Giving reasons for suspicions isn't "throwing stuff around willy-nilly".

However, Grassbridger, Psych having different opinions from you doesn't make him scum. Whether or not someone looks scummy or townie isn't subjective, and town don't know anybody's alignment except their own. Do you have scumreads on anybody other than Elieson? Also, there's no real point to outing townreads unless either you or your townread looks like they're in danger of dying.

[BBM]

Slayer, no. We've got the power here. Us lynching you might cause us to lose out on a day, but it doesn't make us automatically lose. It makes you automatically lose. If you want us to keep you around, you've got to make the first step, not us.

[riariadne]

Alright this'll probably be my last post for a while, fair warning

I want to hear Rein's explanation for why he assumed the Fire Nation was scum before anybody gives their thoughts on that.

I clarified with scorri earlier today.

And Slayer that's not how it works. If you're a liability we really don't have any reason to keep you around.

[Zanarkin]

Slayer, no. We've got the power here. Us lynching you might cause us to lose out on a day, but it doesn't make us automatically lose. It makes you automatically lose. If you want us to keep you around, you've got to make the first step, not us.

Why are you so willing to waste a day?

Also, I'm aware you guys have the power to dispose of me quickly. You need not remind me.

[Sunwoo]

I'm going to need to disappear for a few hours because I have something school-related to work on that I've been neglecting all day, but here are some thoughts for now.

Sangyul - I feel like people haven't talked about this claim nearly enough. (Well, Mancer has, but in all the wrong ways.) People have glossed over a slip in the language: when claiming Roku he said "I'm the previous avatar, my element is fire nation". If Rein is correct, above, and it's Team Avatar versus Fire Nation, then this would be an easy thing for mafia to say since their role PMs say Fire Nation, but less likely for town because the only time Fire would be mentioned on a town PM it wouldn't have Nation next to it. He also didn't claim the name of the character, just its description, which seems odd to me but I don't know why. All in all, he seems scummy but a reasonable explanation could convince me otherwise.

Bolded: I hadn't looked at my role PM in a while, and Roku is of the fire nation in the Avatar-verse, so I just said fire nation.

Italicized: This is ... kind of a stupid reason to suspect me.

Is there any reason you think I'm scummy aside from poor wording choice and not claiming my character directly?

FtP, I can understand not wanting to "commit" to a vote until you're absolutely certain of it. I did the exact same thing in my first two mafia games. But you are very much allowed to change your votes. Not to mention, simply expressing suspicion on someone isn't enough because people feel threatened when there are votes on them. For the time being I am not getting a scum read on FtP and his posts read more "confused player trying to get ahold of things".

Slayer, no one is going to GUARANTEE cooperation with you. You're survivor. Your sole function is to live, and so there is nothing keeping you from siding with mafia if we're in LYLO and you think it'll be more advantageous to you to do so. I mean, I'd rather lynch who I think is scum and not someone who claimed 3rd party survivor, but if you want "town cooperation" could you be more useful?