Avatar the Last Airbender Mafia: D4ends 5/2 at 9:30 PM EST

[Sunwoo]

Probably NOT helpful if I go any further. Suffice to say that I think he can coexist as town with my role, which is why I dropped it.

Unless Blitz has a role that's utterly useless to/makes no sense as scum, I'm not going to worry too much about his role in regards to his alignment.

[Baldrick]

@Point about mancer/rein: i got the opposite conclusion to Mancer; Miller should be less sensitive to assumption about scum's name, since they know it already. Perhaps it's because i'm familiar with the show, but if I saw the obvious antagonists named in the opening flavor and my role PM, my first thought wouldn't be that only scum could figure it out.

Mancer, do you have reason to think fire element cannot be town?

FTP, I don't know if thirds are particularly common where you play, but mentioning them here without evidence to suggest they exist is strange. Basically, what boron said in 618. I'll give you the Botd for now.

Bbm, psych made a bold claim, and I don't want it forgotten. however, I didn't object to the votes on psych because the logic was sound, not because I found his attitude scummy; I can't think of any reason for scum to run their mouth like that unless they could back it up. They have a different judgment to me but that's not inherently suspicious.

Sure, vig is obvious target for rb, but for watcher as well. A watcher report that targets elie would be a dosaster. If slayer is alive and ITP elie is unlikely to shoot scum.

Boron, mancer being miller is irrelevant to my point about your interaction.

If i'm making the same guess as eclipse about blitz, then I don't see anything out of the ordinary there.

Don't agree with Boron's reaction to blitz's reason for unvoting her. If votes build pressure, the inverse is true, and leaving pressure on somebody with IRL concerns, no matter their alignment, won't help us discern them any better and might lead to hurt feelings all round.

Right now I want to see sterge do something. Despite his content i don't get strong feelings from him; he's been pretty cautious, not pushing most of his reads too hard or doing anything really proactive on D1. D2 he's looked at Kay, asked a few questions and concluded nothing in particular, and his Boron case got caught up in a discussion on the most minor point, when that fell through he quietly dropped the vote.

##unvote

##vote: strege

[charlie_]

Baldrick, Slayer is claimed third party. Is that not good enough evidence for you?

[Fear The Pika]

Reading some of the Psych votes, particularly FTP's and Grassbridger's, Kay is right. Neither of them even really say that they think Psych is bad, just that they want him to post more. So yeah, I think they should answer what Kay asked them. FTP's vote is still there IIRC. Him using it as a pressure vote in this case is kind of weird because of how hesitant he was of voting anyone for pressure earlier. Why are you okay with using your vote for those purposes now if you weren't earlier?

Why? Because it's not close to a hammer vote. It's not doing any good now (not saying that it wasn't earlier), but I've been busy with making a resume and other real-life related stuff to read deeply in this thread (Spoiler alert: the college I want to go to did not notify me that they needed something very important and I've been scrambling to get that).

##Unvote that I promised yesterday that is quite overdue now.

Upon reading, I find Baldrick's quick jump on me suspicious. Haven't looked at Shinori's lynch yet because *busy weekend much*. Me being Miller means I sort of know what team the Mafia team is aligned with, which should actually make me more sensitive to slips of the "Fire Nation" sort. Hence, what made Boron's claim so attracting to me. My radars pinged too when Rein made his mention of it

On to non-Role or Flavor stuffs. I find FTP even more suspicious right now. His latest defense of himself isn't doing any credit and in an indirect way, he admitted to not helping town.

The circumstances behind your aforementioned role grasping was not only not believing that I did not have another role in addition to my Miller role. In fact, after that, you had asked at least once more about any other details to my role that I might have. Add on that you were the one who continued pushing the element claiming long after everyone dropped it.

Another point against you is your general unhelpfulness and unwillingness to drop a vote or to make a more solid stand throughout all of D1. That makes me feel that you do not want to be tied on too much to your lynches and votes.

That point on town not wanting to push lynches that hard or to lynch you that hard is invalid since town should technically do their best to try and push their own scum reads to a lynch. They do this by discussion and persuasion, and in some cases through more assertive means (like what I've done). I already explained in D1 that I wanted neither Marth or Shinori lynched if at all possible and you and Rein were my only other two scum reads at that time so I was just asking town if they were willing to go after you for a lynch.

##Vote: Fear The Pika

No. Just, no. Almost EVERYTHING in this post is a lie, or twisted from the truth. I did not indirectly admit to not helping town, I did not ask you for details after that first post, and I did NOT "push element claiming long after everyone dropped it". This is NOT a town thing to do.

##Unvote

##Vote: Mancer

If you're town, you have no reason to lie to push my lynch. Everyone else, I'll get to you later, I have to go referee a soccer game now

[Kay]

Why? Because it's not close to a hammer vote. It's not doing any good now (not saying that it wasn't earlier), but I've been busy with making a resume and other real-life related stuff to read deeply in this thread (Spoiler alert: the college I want to go to did not notify me that they needed something very important and I've been scrambling to get that).

Because we need 9 votes to lynch, we have less than 11 hours to decide on a lynch, and we're nowhere near that.

FTP, I don't know if thirds are particularly common where you play, but mentioning them here without evidence to suggest they exist is strange. Basically, what boron said in 618. I'll give you the Botd for now.

Bbm, psych made a bold claim, and I don't want it forgotten. however, I didn't object to the votes on psych because the logic was sound, not because I found his attitude scummy; I can't think of any reason for scum to run their mouth like that unless they could back it up. They have a different judgment to me but that's not inherently suspicious.

Sure, vig is obvious target for rb, but for watcher as well. A watcher report that targets elie would be a dosaster. If slayer is alive and ITP elie is unlikely to shoot scum.

Boron, mancer being miller is irrelevant to my point about your interaction.

If i'm making the same guess as eclipse about blitz, then I don't see anything out of the ordinary there.

Don't agree with Boron's reaction to blitz's reason for unvoting her. If votes build pressure, the inverse is true, and leaving pressure on somebody with IRL concerns, no matter their alignment, won't help us discern them any better and might lead to hurt feelings all round.

Right now I want to see sterge do something. Despite his content i don't get strong feelings from him; he's been pretty cautious, not pushing most of his reads too hard or doing anything really proactive on D1. D2 he's looked at Kay, asked a few questions and concluded nothing in particular, and his Boron case got caught up in a discussion on the most minor point, when that fell through he quietly dropped the vote.

##unvote

##vote: strege

Just fyi, yes, thirds are extremely common on that site. And vanilla survivors are not the more common kind.

I find it odd that you bring that up now. Either whatever Psych is doing works, in which case it will probably have been unnecessary to point it out, or it doesn't work which doesn't mean a lot since Psych shouldn't have announced that and he put a target on his head doing so, so he's likely to get messed with by scum. Also, nice friendly pressure votes on someone with three votes on them already seem strange to me...

Also, yeah, I agree with you on the point about unvoting, but I can also see the argument against it being reasonable.

Strege is new, I don't find it that suspicious for him to be hesitant. Even if he's played on other forums, that doesn't mean he's used to SF games.

Also, to further illustrate my point about needing to consolidate votes, have some votals.

Psych (2): Marth, Grassbridger

Strege (1): Baldrick

Kay (1): Rein

Boron (1): Blitzy

FtP (3): SB, Eclipse, Mancer

Mancer (1):FtP

Baldrick (2): BBM, Kay

Blitzy (2): Eli, Boron

Voteless (3): Slayer, Psych, Strege

[Psych]

I'm the bodyguard

I'm Suki

I'm Earth

[Fear The Pika]

Welp, if a majority of people agree to reveal elements, I'll reveal mine at that time.

Also, Necro, I'm not sure why you revealed that, or why you expect people to believe that Zuko, the main antagonist, and then an important protagonist, would have such a sucky role with no extra options.

Mancer, that is the one post I made doubting your claim. I never made another post similar to that, you are lying.

I'd be surprised if certain elements were designated for specific things, but that is a possibility. If that would be the case, though, then it's a two-edged sword. Docs might be water, killers might be fire, etc. It might not be worth it to claim elements if that's the setup, but if it's not, then it might be almost a waste not to (well, in my opinion). So yeah, again, only if a majority of the people tihnk it's a good idea should anyone be claiming their element.

Bananas, that's very helpful, thank you.

THAT is my last post I made saying anything about I think we should element claim.

We're scrapping element claiming then?

I am slightly intrigued by Boron's claim and claiming the previous Avatar might be a little far fetched, aka possible safe claim for scum.

##Unvote

##Vote: Sangyul

That is the last post you made about element claiming. Yeah, see the time difference? You posted it 5 minutes after I did. Long after everyone else stopped talking about it? I think not.

Mancer, element claiming is a bad idea, I think this is what we've decided on. Why are you still pushing it? Those coloured charts are a nice way to fake contributions without really doing anything, your Boron vote is weak and you've been calling out for claims too much.

##Unvote

##Vote: Mancer

Also element cop+alignment cop seems kind of redundant, don't you think?

I'd like to point out that post where you were the one being called out for pushing element claiming.

Why is it so farfetched, hm? Is it more farfetched than being a post restriction cop in schoolteacher (which, need I remind you, we got doubly lynched over)? Considering that our elements are said to be "important" and the "fire nation" in general are the villains, I'd rather just come clean with my element.

That is another post talking about element claiming after my last post. Yeah, another lie from you, one that you have been pushing for the last two days.

I already said why I didn't just throw a vote around on D1, just because I do things differently than you doesn't mean I'm scum or "unwilling to take a solid stance". Is this solid enough for you?

Mancer has been tunneling and lying to push my lynch, I do not believe Mancer's claim of Miller should be believed as no townie should ever have to lie and grasp at straws to push a lynch.

[Fear The Pika]

Im going to be out for a while, touring a college I might go to and no wifi

[Elieson]

DAY 1

First vote: Psych

Reason? RVS

Post: 1

Second Vote: Elieson

Reason? Doesn't like my statements on Miller.

Post: 3

Third Vote: Slayer

Reason? Slayer

Post: 4

Fourth Vote: Boron

Reason? Prod

Post: 5

DAY 2

Opening Vote: Boron

Reason? Doesn't think she's scumhunting, thinks she's flighty,

Post: 6

---Note: his the first D2 post, and covers my being hooked, a crumb at redirection (why bring it up if you have nothing new to say about it?), and Boron focus with vote.

Post 7 continues with Boron discussion and a gentle poke at Marth to do something.

Second Vote: Marth

Reason? He's slacking.

Post: 8

---Note: this is horrible reasoning to vote for somebody. I really don't think your vote on Marth is on anything justifiable. Why not vote for Kiryn for the same things?

Post 9 bases Psych's wagon as bad due to rolespec, Kay's wagon as bad due to meta, and a poke on Strege which doesn't seem to be much of anything.

**my Favorite posts**

Third Vote: Boron

Reason? Interprets my look at Votals as scummy?

in fact, you never explained why anything I've said/done is actually scummy. You say I am grasping (at what, my call out on you?) and that I'm making stuff up (oh boy I said 4 instead of 3; somebody call the police).

Also calls me "by far the scummiest player"

And then votes Boron.

after a banter about his/eclipse's Role.

---

Yea I'm satisfied where my vote is, though you do have me there where I said "like four" and it was three votes. After so many votehops, you revert back to a weak scumread and continue to play by threatening me with a lynch based on a me not only performing my shot but also on speciically who.

my battery is dying posting more in a bit

[Grassbridger]

Elie -- to clarify, your above post is about Blitz, right?

I'm reading strong scum from Blitz right now

##Unvote (Psych)

##Vote Blitz

because of post 624: you call Elie "the scummiest player around" and get town reads on Psych, Mancer, and Kay--now, I'm pinging or have been pinging on all of them, but my problem here isn't that I disagree with you, it's that general consensus is not in your favor. Maybe people agree that Mancer is town, although I'm inclined to agree with FtP on their interaction, but Psych and Kay were the big early wagons today, so threatening someone unless they vote one of YOUR townreads (which disagree with other people) without explanations is just scummy.

The way you made your pseudo-claim didn't sit well with me. You made a weird claim about being able to help but in the end, you backed off and haven't revealed anything, while you drew out Eclipse's claim as safeguard. Also scummy.

I don't know if I buy Psych's claim, and I'm really annoyed that after having quite a few people saying "Psych, do something", all that Psych did was a claim with no additonal information. So I'm still on Psych, but Blitz is definitely coming off more scummy, so my vote goes there.

[Strege]

##Unvote that I promised yesterday that is quite overdue now.

Upon reading, I find Baldrick's quick jump on me suspicious. Haven't looked at Shinori's lynch yet because *busy weekend much*. Me being Miller means I sort of know what team the Mafia team is aligned with, which should actually make me more sensitive to slips of the "Fire Nation" sort. Hence, what made Boron's claim so attracting to me. My radars pinged too when Rein made his mention of it

On to non-Role or Flavor stuffs. I find FTP even more suspicious right now. His latest defense of himself isn't doing any credit and in an indirect way, he admitted to not helping town.

The circumstances behind your aforementioned role grasping was not only not believing that I did not have another role in addition to my Miller role. In fact, after that, you had asked at least once more about any other details to my role that I might have. Add on that you were the one who continued pushing the element claiming long after everyone dropped it.

Another point against you is your general unhelpfulness and unwillingness to drop a vote or to make a more solid stand throughout all of D1. That makes me feel that you do not want to be tied on too much to your lynches and votes.

That point on town not wanting to push lynches that hard or to lynch you that hard is invalid since town should technically do their best to try and push their own scum reads to a lynch. They do this by discussion and persuasion, and in some cases through more assertive means (like what I've done). I already explained in D1 that I wanted neither Marth or Shinori lynched if at all possible and you and Rein were my only other two scum reads at that time so I was just asking town if they were willing to go after you for a lynch.

##Vote: Fear The Pika

Mancer: I don't find your second paragraph very convincing. I've never been miller, but every townie tries to put themselves in the mafia's mindset and I don't see why you'd be more sensitive, especially when you've claimed already and a lot of people seem to believe you. Please respond to FtP's case against you asap as well.

I don't know how to defend myself against the votes against me without pointing to my inexperience, which isn't that convincing and frankly feels cheaty and not fun. Maybe if the votes against me consisted of more than "unhelpful to town" and "sounds weird" I'd have more to talk about. I tried to push something I believed in and it went very badly, so I'm leaning back toward my D1 reticence while I get a better feel of what is actually helpful.

If anyone can explain to me which role we're thinking Blitz is and what interaction could make it unreliable (without giving more information that eclipse has) that'd be helpful. Ideally, this would just be eclipse I guess, though I'm sorry to ask her for so much help. I might have some information that could affect how we play this coming night phase.

[Kay]

Yea I'm satisfied where my vote is, though you do have me there where I said "like four" and it was three votes. After so many votehops, you revert back to a weak scumread and continue to play by threatening me with a lynch based on a me not only performing my shot but also on speciically who.

Uh, you don't seriously think people shouldn't care who you shoot, right? I don't see how this is scummy.

Blitzy isn't scummy, you guys. Read carefully what he said to Eclipse that made her back off on suspecting him.

[Elieson]

Ahhhh ok I'm back with some power.

Yes Grass, that post was entirely about blitz.

Psych I missed you claiming while building that post. Why did you even post what you were and not who you taretted n0? You have what, 2 votes on you?

Also strege; visit the mafiascum.wiki website and research roles similar to safeguard. That may offer you assistance

[Elieson]

Uh, you don't seriously think people shouldn't care who you shoot, right? I don't see how this is scummy.

Blitzy isn't scummy, you guys. Read carefully what he said to Eclipse that made her back off on suspecting him.

Ughh it's the way he presented it that I don't like. But maybe you're right I probably just don't like it since i am the target of his post.

Keep in mind I'm siting here with a bullet thinking "if I get redirected I'll get lynched for sure, and I sure hope that one of Eclipse and blitz aren't scum toying with the other".

##Unvote

I gotta figure something else out then fuck

[eclipse]

If you are redirected, then we learn of a mafia driver, 'cause that's about the only thing that'll stop this.

Strege, reread what Blitz said. He stated his own role for his own lynch purposes, not to draw mine out. I see it as somewhat sloppy play, not scummy.

Psych, why use a bodyguard on N0?

[scorri]

Psych (1): Marth
Strege (1): Baldrick
Kay (1): Rein
Boron (1): Blitzy
FtP (3): SB, Eclipse, Mancer
Mancer (1):FtP
Baldrick (2): BBM, Kay
Blitzy (2): Boron, Grass

Voteless (3): Slayer, Psych, Strege

You guys have 6 hours left, and need 9 votes to lynch.

[Strege]

Ahhhh ok I'm back with some power.

Yes Grass, that post was entirely about blitz.

Psych I missed you claiming while building that post. Why did you even post what you were and not who you taretted n0? You have what, 2 votes on you?

Also strege; visit the mafiascum.wiki website and research roles similar to safeguard. That may offer you assistance

Ugh, I've found a role that works for everything said except the possibility that Elie could fail tonight. I'm out for an hour, and then I'm skimming through past games to see if I can figure this out on my own.

[Grassbridger]

Rereading Blitz's ISO he still seems scummy to me, D1 included he's . I'm leaving my vote on him right now as my strongest scumread. I'll be around for the rest of the phase, and I'll be willing to switch my vote for consolidation purposes in about 3-4 hours, or if it becomes clear who the final wagons are.

I'd be OK with lynching FtP, Mancer, Baldrick, or Slayer, if it comes to consolidating. Mancer and Baldrick have struck me as slightly scummy today--Mancer's hard pushes seem overly aggressive, I guess, and I'm not sure what it is about Baldrick--and better a claimed ITP than a null or townread, as far as I'm concerned. As for FtP, I dunno--he's struck me as slightly odd the whole time, so I guess I'm OK with lynching him if everyone else wants that. That said, I'm not pushing any of the above.

Oh, and I forgot to mention Psych. Still seems scummy.

[Grassbridger]

Oops I started typing an explanation and then forgot.

...D1 included he's been kind of passively pushing flavorspec without strong scumreads until he suddenly attacks Elie without a lot of other warning, or justification in my mind.

[eclipse]

Dude, are you even taking roles into account?

[Elieson]

Uhh what happened to Marth?

[eclipse]

Little under four hours remain, and the votes are way too spread out.

[BBM]

The way Blitz claimed is incredibly townie and the wagon on him is therefore crap. You don't crumb your role on D2 and say that you're going to get someone lynched the next day if they don't prove their role, because if Blitz had then gotten Elie lynched D3 and Elie had flipped town, Blitz would have tied himself way too much to that lynch and would probably have gone down D4.

Psych, are you the type of Bodyguard who dies for their target or are you the type of Bodyguard who just protects their target at no harm to themselves? In either case, why did you think you would be able to lead the town using that claim? I don't trust it and it feels odd to me because Bodyguard type A dies after proving their role, and you should know that Bodyguard type B should never be outing themselves willy-nilly, especially since you made a big deal about people throwing info around on D1 in a retort to me.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Psych because that claim makes no sense with how he's acted. If people don't want to lynch him, I guess I could go for FTP (and Baldrick obviously, but that doesn't look like it's going to work out today).

[eclipse]

I'd really, REALLY like Psych to get back in here and explain himself. However, the fact that he used a bodyguard N0 makes no logical sense, and now that I know why he was redirected, I won't be completely opposed to lynching him (he's not my first choice, though; my vote should speak for itself).

[Grassbridger]

Eclipse: I think I'm taking roles into account? I'll try to address that:

Blitz claimed... something... sort of... BBM, you say that the wagon against him is crap, but I don't follow how your logic makes him town. I see why, in general, that sort of pushy threat is bad, but not why it's town. Eclipse, you seem to think you have insight into/a good guess as to what Blitz's role is, but not everyone does. That crumbing is not sufficient to change my mind about anything.

Mancer claimed Miller early, but that's basically not proveable. Yeah, Zuko/Miller makes a lot of flavor sense, but it doesn't change my belief about Mancer one way or another. Initially, I believed his claim. Now, I'm not so sure, based on his large body of erratic play. So I'd be willing to consolidate in that way, if that's what happens.

Psych has also claimed a role, but I find it pretty weird for similar reasons to what Eclipse and BBM just said above, so yeah I'd still like an explanation. And the fact that his entire posting history for today is "great, there's a janitor", some light reads on Rein and Eclipse, a point about not caring enough to push his reads, and his claim post, and everyone has been asking him to post for a while, I'd also consider lynching out of unhelpfulness to town (yes I know this is a thing that applies to a lot of people, but we haven't been badgering all of them to answer questions).