Do you want to see an Avatar in all future Fire Emblem games?

[Book Bro]

Reading through posts I guess I'm in the minority, but I would actually prefer if any future Avatars were less involved in the story...Blazing Sword style. I actually didn't expect Awakening to make the Avatar such a big part of the plot, and I'm not sure it worked so well. Sure, part of it is that I did make my first Avatar a "self-insert" (which I really feel was the intention, sorry Robin fans) so it was a little weird to have all these things being revealed about "me." I say they should choose between having a very customizable Avatar with moderate story involvement or a less customizable one with big story relevance.

That being said I don't particularly care if Avatars return or not. FE can work well with or without the feature.

[Rehab]

Here's the thing, though: are people unable to enjoy a game if they cannot see a character as him or her? If the Avatar was not customizable and just another character, would it take away your enjoyment of the game because they're not "you"?

My Avatars are never "me", and this might be the "fanfiction writer" in me, but when you give people an excuse to actually "be" in that story, like Avatar in FE13, people are going to run wild. They're going to make themselves the "all-important" person and all the actual characters get pushed to the wayside. And honestly, who really gives a damn about any MU other than their own? Whereas all the other characters are "set" and people can care and not care about them equally?

Personally, I think games like FE shouldn't have a customizable character. I liked the way FF:CC did customizable characters, because of how the gameplay was structured there.

Restricting a character to being a self-insert is simply a bad way to go about trying to construct a meaningful customizable character, yes. Game players and creators do indeed have to break free from the assumption that they're necessarily synonyms. But who does it hurt if that's just what some people choose to do when given the chance to have a customizable character?

It's good that you can make your characters "somebody that isn't me" in your mind. I do that too! The thing is, in fe13, the whole "make your own" MU thing is actually kinda crippled off the bat; their dialogue is always the same, their character art only ever puts them in one outfit (which may be wildly inappropriate for their job), they only ever have one potential history, and their role in the story is always the same. So, yeah, aside from shippapalooza and "choose your adventu-uh I mean ending," who cares what somebody else did with their character? For the most part, they're all the same character.

See, the game is largely just tricking players into thinking it's their character, by exploiting the way we fill in the blanks. That is not how you sell somebody on customizable characters, and certainly not an example of how to bring out their full potential.

When I think about customizable characters, I'm thinking like in pen/paper role-playing games, where players actually directly create a character- build them up in their heads, from their origin, personality, sometimes history, and whatever other traits formed, up to the point in time where the game begins. And even if the players don't really care for all that crap, from the point where the RPG begins and they get control over their character, they supply everything about what they say, how they act and what they decide to do, all from their own imagination. They become active agents in determining the content and even tone of the story, just by playing.

I really love that stuff, though it's obviously incredibly hard to give a player anywhere near the same degree of freedom in designing a video game and a plot to go with it, since games are often all about giving players a limited set of ways in which they can respond to a very specific situation. You can still give them choices in how to proceed and how to characterize the way in which they're proceeding, though, even if you must keep those choices limited- so long as the players can fill in the blanks for themselves. It's a way of structuring games that has produced great results many times, and I've even gotten genuinely interested in hearing about what other people did with the choices they were given, and how they interpreted them to form what was in their mind their character.

Personally, I think making a character customizable in Fire Emblem, in a better way than fe13 did, is totally possible. It would be a pretty low bar to set, actually. To do it really well, I think that'd be something of a challenge, admittedly even moreso in a game with FE's traditionally linear setup, but it's still just a challenge, not a structural impossibility.

Aside: As far as "it must happen in all future games?" Yeah if it's going to be more of what we've already seen no thanks. I would, however, find it interesting to be able to choose a normally scripted main character from a selection of premade characters at the beginning of the game, like how Sacred Stones did but with things rearranged a little, and seeing the story change in whatever ways based on which one I picked.

I'm.. not actually sure why I brought that up, because it's a completely different thing from both the traditional FE setup and the customizable protagonist route, but anyway. Something else I think the series could look towards, as opposed to making MU the new de facto protagonist in every game.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Rehab

[Sunwoo]

You bring up a good point, Rehab, about FE13. Which makes me wonder even more "why did they even bother to make it a customizable character if nothing changes"? I think my problem with Avatars is because the people who DO like to imagine that they are the Avatar are going to get WAY to emotionally attached to their "husbands" and "waifus" to the point of annoying others. Like, I'm tired of people being ridiculously possessive over their fictional spouse in a non-joking manner, and insisting that their Mary Sue is the best possible pairing for ___ and that none other makes sense. It's unavoidable, and unfortunately it's what turned me off to customizable characters forever.

[Loki Laufeyson]

You bring up a good point, Rehab, about FE13. Which makes me wonder even more "why did they even bother to make it a customizable character if nothing changes"? I think my problem with Avatars is because the people who DO like to imagine that they are the Avatar are going to get WAY to emotionally attached to their "husbands" and "waifus" to the point of annoying others. Like, I'm tired of people being ridiculously possessive over their fictional spouse in a non-joking manner, and insisting that their Mary Sue is the best possible pairing for ___ and that none other makes sense. It's unavoidable, and unfortunately it's what turned me off to customizable characters forever.

That is truly unfortunate because my Avatars are really not me either. The first playthrough one was the closest thing to my own self insert Mary Sue who looked similar to me, but the others, no way. My husbando is Virion but he only married my Avatar once. Besides, Miriel looks more like me than my Avatars could ever do. So...yeah.

I think my thing is that i like main characters to have personality even if they are silent protagonists. (see: Link, Ness, Crono, etc) So outright customizable characters that are just our "eyes" into a game doesnt appeal to me. So i enjoyed FE13's Avatar.

[riariadne]

People obsessing over customizable characters aren't really because of the character being well done or not or even the character itself- that's people reacting to it. I get the sentiment but I don't really think that's a fault of how a character is implemented or anything but a side effect that customizable characters have because yeah, they can be a self-insert, and yeah people can go overboard with it, but that doesn't make every customizable character automatically terrible.

[Ein]

jesus christ no

Just let it be about the main Lord(s) and how they inevitably prevail against the obvious badguy(s).

[LunaSaint]

As someone who enjoys pen and paper, I'd rather they didn't. Perhaps if they let you do some actual roleplaying and have some consequences to your decisions, but they can't even make Cordelia shut up about Chrom after you pair her off.

At the end of the day, my unit is the renamable JRPG protagonist who is offered various choices that the game ignores. The problem is, they're still trying to cater to everyone by making the guy's conversations as inoffensive as possible. I'd rather they would be an actual character that you can rename/customise at the very least. As it is, they're a really bland person who draws attention away from the actual characters. It feels really out of place in FE.

The other grumble from me is just how broken they are gameplay wise. D:

Alternatively, the Quantum leap idea is amazing and I support it.

So, alternatives over FE13 tactician that I'd prefer:

- Actual role playing.

- FE12 style, out of the main plot.

- No tactician/FE7 tactician.

- Quantum leap!

Edited May 9, 2013 by LunaSaint

[Tamanoir]

My Avatar are never me either. My first Avatar is female, and have absolutely nothing in common with me.

I'm always excited by this, but it isn't that much important in fact.

Besides, I couldn't involve with someone who is supposed to be a great Tactician...

Well, they could let you chose in a set of fixed personnality (timid, angry, normal, for example...) and changing thr character interaction accordingly, even if it's just the same as the father's support option. That would be a step inh the right direction.

Also, I would like more option in Avatar's creation. Namely the ability to were glasses/sunglasses, and facial hair.

[Naglfar]

with how IS can't really help but make them overpowered and how FE13's MU ran around with the spotlight for the entire game, I hope they don't do it too often. it's the kind of thing that'll get repetitive and uninteresting very quickly.

[Faye]

I'd love another My Unit, but I hope they don't completely steal the show like in FE13. 8D; It's fun to have a customizable character who can marry anyone, but WOW, who's the star of FE13, Chrom or My Unit?

[BrightBow]

Well, it was kinda nice in FE12.

But only because your character was in an observer role. He didn't actually influence anything.

Even the fact that everyone became good friends with MU and shared their most intimate feelings with hir could simply be considered an alternative to have these characters talk to themselves.

But in FE13, I really don't know what they were thinking.

I mean, he is just a bland character with no characteristics

Now that's how a lot of self-inserts work in order to be better identifiable by the player.

But what makes this case special is that this is already how the Lords work.

I would have expected that they would have realized that. But nope, Chrom is just another Marth clone.

PoR had for the most part three main characters:

Ike, who is the leader. Soren, who is pragmatic and cold. And Titania, who is experienced and moral.

Three characters who provide something vastly different in any scene.

But Awakening has two main characters with the "generic good guy" personality.

They should just make the Lord customizable and leave it at that.

But I don't see the point anyway, considering how much control over every single aspect of every character you already have.

[Paper Jam]

Here's the thing, though: are people unable to enjoy a game if they cannot see a character as him or her? If the Avatar was not customizable and just another character, would it take away your enjoyment of the game because they're not "you"?

It wouldn't take away my enjoyment of the game, but the only thing that distinguishes the Avatar from other characters is his/her customizability. Without that, he/she might as well not be considered an Avatar.

Unless you consider every character in every FE game to be a potential Avatar. I could, for example, make the case that Soren is the Avatar in FE9...

Or if I am mistaken, then what is the difference between (a) having an Avatar who is not customizable and is just another character, and (b) not having an Avatar?

Edited May 10, 2013 by Paper Jam

[Jotari]

The Avatar's current role in Fe13 could not work if he was a standard character. At least not without some heavy modifications. He's only actually important in the last third of the game and for a character who's only semi relevant to suddenly steal the show like that would not feel right at all (imagine if Fredrick turned out to be Grima! Actually that would be kind of awesome, I definitely wouldn't have seen that coming). For the Avatar to be a standard character in game he would need more input in the story other than being the tactician to justify the plot that happens in the last third and also to justify the fact that it's game over when he dies.

[Paper Jam]

Really? The Avatar's role in FE13 doesn't seem to me to be that much different than Soren's role in FE9.

[BrightBow]

Really? The Avatar's role in FE13 doesn't seem to me to be that much different than Soren's role in FE9.

How? I don't see how they have more in common besides being the tactician of their respective groups.

And Soren never got any story relevance. He is a good addition to the cast to be sure but the story wouldn't go any different if he didn't exist.

Sure, he is Deghinsea's ancestor, the son of Ashnard and the rightful heir of Daein's throne.

But that's just trivia and never important for the main plot.

Edited May 10, 2013 by BrightBow

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Soren is a tactician who is.... that Tactician/Advisor. No more, no less. Think August or Jagen(speaking of which, Ike is Leif, Titania is Finn, Soren is August)

FE13 MU is more "I make Chrom my mindslave" than an actual Tactician

I liked the characterization of FE13 MU for the most part, but I did not like the part where he become basically anything that matters

[Momo]

I don't really think the Avatar fits the general theme of Fire Emblem games. That is, you're pretty much just watching a story. They don't really pretend you have any agency in it, you're just along for the ride. Pretending your cookie-cutter customizable unit is somehow supposed to be "you" is just pandering, and badly. It also didn't help that you had dick all for choices in this game. It's like, impossible to not look like an asshole, and why is there no race option? I don't want to be yet another white guy, I think we already have tons of those.

[Rehab]

If they actually gave the character more appreciable agency it'd be a totally different story as far as I'm concerned, though

[mewyeon]

I'd really like avatar in future games! Although I do agree that more customization and more influential choices would have been nice.

[Momo]

If they actually gave the character more appreciable agency it'd be a totally different story as far as I'm concerned, though

My point exactly, if this happened then it wouldn't really be a Fire Emblem game.

So my answer is no.

[Talvisota]

I think they managed to integrate the Tactician character into the main story pretty well in Awakening.

While that's certainly a good thing there's no harm in them simply going back to the original Fire Emblem situation of having the player play as either an

anonymous tactician or simply have them 'play' as the main Lord.

I think ultimately it's not an integral part of the Fire Emblem universe, the focus will and has always been on the main Lords and the overall story so whether

the Avatar character continues isn't actually that important.

It'd be far worse if they took it too far and Fire Emblem became too much about customising your main character and less about the overall story

and party around that character.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Talvisota

[Jedi]

The Avatar did what they needed to do in FE12 granted that wasn't too much but in FE13 they made He/She very plot important and did it reasonably well. I wouldn't say no to them doing it again but I'd rather the focus be on the main lord etc.

[Rehab]

My point exactly, if this happened then it wouldn't really be a Fire Emblem game.

So my answer is no.

(my "totally different story" was more an "I'd be all over it" than a "would be impossibly different," for anybody to whom that wasn't apparent)

How so? I'm unsure what having some significant input on the actions, motivations and personality of a central character (and thus, hopefully, having input on the arc and tone of the story) would be impossible or damaging to try to replicate in fire emblem, so long as all possibilities are written cohesively enough (and so long, of course, as they're entertaining enough to be worth the work)

[Momo]

It's that last part that I have a problem with. They can't even write one satisfying story, I can't say I have faith in them to do one with branching paths.