Raine Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Since we're talking Hard Mode, Fredrick isn't such a great unit when considering the long-run. He makes for the best pair-up unit with Chrom/MU to grant bonus defense, but overall is one that more likely than not will be benched the whole play through. Not to say that he's useless on any difficulty-- he's necessary in Lunatic/Lunatic+ for the sole reason that he's the only one able to compete with the CPU toe to toe. Great class choices as far as Aegis, Luna, DG+, and even a few breakers. Might even benefit from Carrier and Defender. Overall, however, a lackluster character who is sub-optimal on a straight play through. 3/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I don't understand how a unit like Frederick can get such low scores. As soon as he starts being "bad" in any way, you can drop him. Even his combat were to somehow always be a negative for some crazy reason, he is at least a great pairup bot for a long time. I don't see at all how that earns him ~half the score that Lissa got. He's a unit that requires literally no input to help you. Edited May 23, 2013 by Rewjeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I don't understand how a unit like Frederick can get such low scores. As soon as he starts being "bad" in any way, you can drop him. Even his combat were to somehow always be a negative for some crazy reason, he is at least a great pairup bot for a long time. I don't see at all how that earns him ~half the score that Lissa got. He's a unit that requires literally no input to help you. It's all how you play man. It changes things drastically (all successful tier lists need to have a standardized way too play). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Right. I can see how Frederick doesn't always earn a 9, but how is giving people STR/DEF/MOV for several chapters so much worse than Lissa's generally useless healing for several chapters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47948201 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) Whoa suddenly a lot of pages for Frederick. Stat Rating: 6.5/10 I'd give him a good 9/10 for earlygame, but closer to 4 later on. I know he has okay growths, but his exp gain compared to everyone else is pretty bad for a while, so it takes a good bit of effort to keep him good. Class Rating: 8/10 Great Knights are great now that they have more movement than SS while keeping full WTC. Far from a perfect class, but a very nice one. Weapon (utility) Rating: 8/10 Starting able to use pretty much any weapon aside from bows/tomes? That's always nice. Class Set Rating: 8/10 Aegis+Pavise on a first generation unit is nice, and Wyvern Rider is a strong class, too. But he'll never be fearless, always having slayer weakness and low resistance. Availability Rating: 10/10 Perfect availability, obviously. Support Rating: 7.5/10 He has supports. Yeah. Chrom support is nice and stuff I guess. So that equals a flat 8. No bias. He's there, he's great, but not amazing. (For Hard, at least) Edited May 23, 2013 by 47948201 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Some people probably see Lissa as a long term unit, while they see Fred as useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) Some people probably see Lissa as a long term unit, while they see Fred as useless. This is what it seems to be. My personal view is that he's a net negative on my team's long term ability but others seem to just be rating him so low because he's an unnecessary Jeigan. Also Rewjeo: Lissa if leveled (annoying I know) can be an amazing Dark Flier or Sage. That's part of it as well, several people rank with a preference towards long-term usability. Edited May 23, 2013 by bearclaw13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I would like a little more explanation about this at your earliest convience. I just don't see a reason for such a low score when he still has a great early game and good mid game utility.There have been like five other people who have given him a similar score. Do I need to copy+paste what they said?He "steals" exp, sucks in the long term. IMO, his only pro is his pair up bonuses. I can get MU ready to be promoted/sealed with similar stats (-the seal.) by chapter 2. That shows he falls off the face of the earth completely. By chapter 4, I've got a waaaay better unit. He's not even that great for earlygame. If this was lunatic, this would be different. Edited May 23, 2013 by Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 There have been like five other people who have given him a similar score. Do I need to copy+paste what they said? He "steals" exp, sucks in the long term. IMO, his only pro is his pair up bonuses. I can get MU up to his base level (-the master seal.) by chapter 2. That shows he falls off the face of the earth completely. Sorry but this is a terrible answer. MU can not reach his base level by Chapter 2. People giving answers like this ruins RTU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Even as a long term unit, Lissa is really questionable to be perfectly honest On cellphone so can't type now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 There have been like five other people who have given him a similar score. Do I need to copy+paste what they said? He "steals" exp, sucks in the long term. IMO, his only pro is his pair up bonuses. I can get MU ready to be promoted/sealed with similar stats (-the seal.) by chapter 2. That shows he falls off the face of the earth completely. By chapter 4, I've got a waaaay better unit. He's not even that great for earlygame. If this was lunatic, this would be different. The point was that you were the second person to give this score. When you gave it, it had no backing. Later when someone asked you to explain you only said what was wrong didn't mention what he does well. The point here is that only bear had posted before and you had no backing or reasoning for the score. You didn't even quote him and say "I agree with this". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Even as a long term unit, Lissa is really questionable to be perfectly honest On cellphone so can't type now It depends on your playstyle man. Lissa might be good in the long-term for some people and she might not for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Even as a long term unit, Lissa is really questionable to be perfectly honest On cellphone so can't type now But is she more questionable than Dan le batard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I really don't understand why Frederick's getting rated worse than Lissa by some people. Sure, HM's a cakewalk as it is, but Frederick stays strong throughout a good portion of the game, and only slows down if his growths weren't good to him. Even then, he's still a great Pair Up partner for Chrom, Sumia, etc. And if need be, reclass him. He likes Paladin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I think it has to do with him not having galeforce. May be wrong on this (though likely not). Edited May 23, 2013 by Constable Galeforce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I really don't understand why Frederick's getting rated worse than Lissa by some people. Sure, HM's a cakewalk as it is, but Frederick stays strong throughout a good portion of the game, and only slows down if his growths weren't good to him. Even then, he's still a great Pair Up partner for Chrom, Sumia, etc. And if need be, reclass him. He likes Paladin. I explained why Paladin is kind of weak for him earlier. Also Constable: That's actually semi-true. See Frederick is a unit who gets weaker instead of stronger. Galeforce is by no means the only way to evaluate late-game ability (Although it definitely helps) but it's worth noting that those units who level up a lot faster and get better skills could seem a lot better to several people which would result in these low scores being more common than I thought they would be. Have you checked your profile to see what I'm asking you to do yet JSND? Edited May 24, 2013 by bearclaw13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 I think his biggest issue that people have with him is that he steals exp with little gains. I think this is counteracted by second seals but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I think his biggest issue that people have with him is that he steals exp with little gains. I think this is counteracted by second seals but that's just me. Second seals can be used better. Although Frederick could maybe get one from a child paralogue or Chapter 12... this is all kind of pointless though the people have voted and nothing's going to change their votes. If you have questions on low scores you can PM me and I'll do my best to explain things but this is just clogging up a rating thread with debating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I think it has to do with him not having galeforce. May be wrong on this (though likely not). Knowing the community, it probably is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 I'm thinking about making a discussion thread for this because I'm sure the rating will on,y get more controversial. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) I'm thinking about making a discussion thread for this because I'm sure the rating will on,y get more controversial. What do you guys think? Yes! I definitely want something to end clogging this up. I don't think a vote has been added for like 2-3 pages. ...oh wait nvm massive exaggeration. Edited May 24, 2013 by bearclaw13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book Bro Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I think his biggest issue that people have with him is that he steals exp with little gains. I think this is counteracted by second seals but that's just me. This is one of the main issues for me. I prefer using the first few seals to help initially weaker units rather than to make Frederick gain more experience. By the time you can buy more either Frederick is already falling behind if he hasn't been used or he's been stealing EXP. Like another post said, why put so much effort into a unit to "slow his descent" at the expense of units that have more potential? I get the feeling people rating him as perfect are probably basing it off Lunatic. It's also odd that Fred getting low ratings is turning out to be more controversial than the Avatar getting anything less than a 10 for really nitpicky reasons... Also, can people stop posting Galeforce shit in every topic to be funny? It's not funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Also, can people stop posting Galeforce shit in every topic to be funny? It's not funny. I would really like it if people read my posts helping to explain low scores. Saying it's his lack of Galeforce has some accuracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Listen dude, just because you don't find galeforce as good as I do doesn't mean you can demand me to stop posting my views. To me, Frederick definitely isn't that good because he doesn't have galeforce. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the other low posts too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 All posting for debating must stop! We have a topic for this now! Please answer anything over there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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