Strege Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Okay, yeah, I misread that sentence. But it still felt like you were pushing forward at least the Objection wagon despite not finding him scummy, which might be a semantic difference from what you say you meant, but an important one. Going through more of your posts, if you didn't really think that what I'd done was scummy, or that I should have hidden it, why did you spend so long on D1 questioning me about my motives? Fair point about the wording, but I think it's a minor one. Is there anything else that looks like me pushing that wagon without being a part of it? I spent 2 posts questioning your motives and every post after that explaining mine, after you voted me. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Forgive me if you mentioned it before and I totally missed it, but with your recent answer to why you find paper scummy in mind, what do you think of the Cam/ZM slot? Zeem: I can't make heads or tails of his content up until post 221 (is that comment on Bluedoom's role strange in the context of his other content to anyone else?). From there, post 239 looks bad, not contributing a thing and he doesn't even say it's in an attempt to aid his own reads. Weirdness, first game here, whatever. Post 428 bothers me a bit more, in which he says "I will do so as well as provide my reasons for voting Baldrick to previous day", followed by post 477 where he says he didn't have any. Lying is bad. However, looking through the thread I see Paperblade described Zeem's and Shinori's Baldrick votes thusly: "The votes are lazy and bad." I can see an inexperienced player seeing that kind of thing and going the wrong way about correcting their behaviour. Bleh, kinda-sorta scummy given the context. I'm really not happy with lynching largely based on weirdness and inactivity. Moving on. Cam: Not great. Cutting the wheat from the chaff, in post 1040 we get him opening up the field for people going after Shinori and pressing Objection (Objection had answered that question IIRC and it's a little suspect that he pulled that out of everything in the thread). Afterward we get EZ-vote against Objection when he's making, admittedly, the scummiest possible exit, but people were telling Cam to put down a vote *to push people* and his comments there don't point out or push anything -- they actually just rabble-rouse and allow him to say he had a vote down D3. Saying Boron is missable in post 1202 is a strange criticism. I can sort of see where he's coming from (because Boron asks a lot of questions my mind skips along and focuses on the answer instead, etc.) but it's not contextualized at all. I can't articulate what's holding me up here right now, but something about that tossed-off criticism really bothers me. Tacking on a vote to the end of that looks awful; it doesn't push Boron to any kind of response. I think the Cam/ZM playerslot is pretty scummy, overall. I don't think I have any specific questions beyond "Cam, who are your scumreads?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I meant to ##Unvote (Paperblade), by the way, and I suppose I'll ##Vote: Cam while I'm at it. I've only started reading ISOs, though, so stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I don't really like how Cam came in with Boron being missable right after Paperblade had started his case there. Also apparently talking about 2 people is a listpost?i was gonna post more but i forgot because i was tired Nice sheep, Cam. Do you know the meaning of hypocrisy, where you call me "missable" when your former self literally didn't exist to the point where I forgot that he was playing as well? Go back and do your reread, because I am not the only person who has been on every major wagon, and it's telling that you single me out over it."you did it too" is a really bad defense because it's still bad; it's not as if i can defend zm anyway but if i were subbing for someone other than him i'd be riding his ass too what exactly does it tell that i happened to pick you? the only other person i can see who's been on all the big wagons is marth, and i'm not really finding him that bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @strege- what possible scum advantage would i have for just dropping a vote down on the big wagon? true, i unintentionally hammered on the scummiest possible exit. what else is there, really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 what exactly does it tell that i happened to pick you? the only other person i can see who's been on all the big wagons is marth, and i'm not really finding him that bad otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @strege- what possible scum advantage would i have for just dropping a vote down on the big wagon? true, i unintentionally hammered on the scummiest possible exit. what else is there, really? The vote addressed the criticism that people had of you, but with the easiest target and in a pretty superficial and unproductive way. I'm not accusing you of intentionally hammering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 the fact that you're pointing this out means that it clearly didn't ;/ what else would you have had me do? keep my vote off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 the fact that you're pointing this out means that it clearly didn't ;/ what else would you have had me do? keep my vote off? That would have been okay, since voting for someone who's self-voted and declared he's out of here doesn't make a boatload of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Actually, the fact that you tried to unvote really weakens that argument, so I'll rescind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Cam: Not great. Cutting the wheat from the chaff, in post 1040 we get him opening up the field for people going after Shinori and pressing Objection (Objection had answered that question IIRC and it's a little suspect that he pulled that out of everything in the thread).why is it suspect keep in mind i hadn't even voted him at the time (and i wasn't intending to unless he gave an unfavorable answer- which i'm pretty sure everyone agrees that he did) Saying Boron is missable in post 1202 is a strange criticism. I can sort of see where he's coming from (because Boron asks a lot of questions my mind skips along and focuses on the answer instead, etc.) but it's not contextualized at all.context: skimmed the thread twice picked out something I can't articulate what's holding me up here right now, but something about that tossed-off criticism really bothers me. Tacking on a vote to the end of that looks awful; it doesn't push Boron to any kind of response.i'm not sure what you're expecting me to say here because i'll say now that i'm not looking for a response "Cam, who are your scumreads?"typically i don't think you should even put a vote down unless you have a guess at who's scum (exception is only with less than 24 hours left and no lynch decided in hammer games) but at any rate i'm getting there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 "you did it too" is a really bad defense because it's still bad; it's not as if i can defend zm anyway but if i were subbing for someone other than him i'd be riding his ass too That wasn't even a defense than a stab at the hypocrisy in that statement. I HATE hypocrisy, and I hate it even more right now for reasons that are not related to mafia so I'm not going to get into. what exactly does it tell that i happened to pick you? the only other person i can see who's been on all the big wagons is marth, and i'm not really finding him that bad Why don't you go read again, because Manix was also on all the big wagons. Is he suspicious for that too then? You said that Marth was also on all the wagons. You find me "missable", and the other initially given reason you're voting for me is because I've been on all the big wagons. The fact that at least one other person, and two by your own admission since you already admitted Marth was too, IS NOT ENOUGH for you to get away with throwing a vote on me with no other explanation. Also, do keep in mind that Baldrick suicided himself with a modkill several hours before the phase ended, Blitz refused to full claim and be cooperative after he decided to act scummy because he wanted to claim -- on a day that was already shortened because Baldrick's tactical modkill penalty -- and then Objection decided to silence scorri before he committed suicide with over 24 hours left in the day. WHEN PLAYERS GIVE UP AND DECIDE TO END PHASE EARLY WITH THEIR SUICIDE, WAGON READS ARE BLURRED BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE CONTINUED TO PUSH A WAGON OR JUMP OFF A WAGON NEVER GOT THE CHANCE TO REACT OTHERWISE. Basically, Cam, you sheeped Paperblade's vote by saying I was "missable" right after he said I was "blending in". Your only other point of criticism at that point was me being on all three big wagons, which I was not the only person doing so it's stupid to single me out over it, since that and being "missable" are your only two points on me. Also, wagon analysis in itself is not always the best way of weeding out scum, and ESPECIALLY not with lynches this stupid. Also, somebody explain to me how people find me missable over people who are contributing less and not nearly as active. If I'm so missable maybe I should just post in SUPER MAX FONT all the time if that'll get your attention! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @Cam: -> I find it suspect because out of the whole thread you pulled something on the easiest target that you could have taken from someone else. -> That's not what I meant by contextualized; I'm not exactly sure what I meant by it, but it was the closest word that came to mind. "Missable" is half of a criticism, and without saying that she was padding her posts or waffling or being inactive it falls flat -- it's an observation that doesn't really say anything. You note her being on every major wagon but that doesn't explain the previous two sentences. This might not be anything else, but it's a stubborn gutread. ->I'm sorry that my argument against you is weird. Hopefully it will sort itself out as you post more. I should probably go to sleep now; I'm not arguing well, even with myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Strege, did your opinions on Paperblade fade or do you just find Cam worse atm? I don't see a real reason for the switch in votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 To clarify, it's my personal preference to get something out of the person I'm voting before I drop the vote, no matter how much worse I'm finding someone else, and Paperblade didn't really defend against your vote at all, so the choice to switch to someone else is weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 OK, reread finished (mostly, I haven't finished wading through all the blitz shit again) ##unvote Stuff: I thought BBM was confirmed town because Shinori/Paperbrad are geneeoses (and i pretty much still do) but my gut is telling me to be wary if he lives much longer without an external cause I stand by my statement that boron was sort of blending in. I'm no longer quite as certain that wagon analysis is telling, though, since it looks like Boron was one of the early votes on a few of the wagons. Objection's claim was like... even more out-of-nowhere than I thought... Paper: Do you mind/have you already outed who's in your scumfaction neighborhood watch? I vaguely remember you defending Fera/Proto because they are, but is that it/is it just OC faction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 oh yeah i also feel like boron reacted sort of strongly for three votes on her (shadoweh wtf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Don't presume to know my state of mind, Cam, at the time I saw the votes on me. I've been involved in stupid pointless online fight after stupid pointless online fight yesterday, and I made the mistake of reading a certain thread first thing in the morning and that got me in a worse mood. While I don't agree with Paper's reasons for voting me, he built a case. You literally jumped to vote me after Paper did with not very strong backed up reasons saying "leaving this here until morning", and Shadoweh literally voted me for no reason but to hop on a wagon. Like, how am I supposed to react to a vote that was put down with no explanation and for no reason like Shadoweh's aside from "what the fuck"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I don't like Cam's unvote of Boron at all. He sheeped on like right after Paperblade and then as soon as he started getting flak for it he just jumped off. Actually I'm going to ##Unvote, ##Vote: Cam because I feel like parts of my case against Strege are graspy. Boron, you need to chill a bit though. Nobody is trying purposely to push your buttons (in here, anyways). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I feel like that Cam vote is kind of out of nowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Boron, I'm sorry for anything I've done that's made you mad. Truly. But in my mind, this is a game, you know? Lighten up a bit? Or, barring that, at least wait until you're feeling a little better before reading/posting; if nothing else that should prevent any major blowups. I feel like that Cam vote is kind of out of nowhereis this "Cam's vote was out of nowhere" or "the vote on Cam was out of nowhere" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 the latter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 becoming slightly paranoid considering the chance of the neighborhood watch being a cult and not a neighbor group ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I think you give me too much credit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 It's not like you haven't done this before (schoolteacher...) Theoretically we could test it on Manix tonight since he gets roles but i dunno if it's just paranoia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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