SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Ema Skye]

Zelda plays much better in Brawl than in Melee, but she's second from the bottom in Brawl compared to like 8th from the bottom (or something close to that) in Melee.

[DodgeDusk]

Not sure if y'all know, but all the starting characters have their English taunts up. Not really much to note, except Marth still speaks Japanese

[Anacybele]

Zelda plays much better in Brawl than in Melee, but she's second from the bottom in Brawl compared to like 8th from the bottom (or something close to that) in Melee.

That's incorrect. I've heard many times that Melee Zelda is better than Brawl Zelda.

People have said that SSB Wii U/3DS Zelda is the worst in the game though, because of nerfs from Brawl and her phantom move being rubbish.

This confused me too. He plays MUCH better than in Brawl, but is extremely low in both of the tier lists that were posted recently.

I've heard the same about Ike, though it was only through one video where the player used him in 1 vs 1 matches against various characters. But in the end, the player decided that he was pretty good now and originally, this guy thought he sucked.

[Knight]

Uh, yes, they should. It tells you which characters have the biggest advantage in competitive tournaments. And if the characters I plan to use have THIS big of a disadvantage, there's no point in entering any. I don't know if I'll end up matched against an expert using ZSS or a scrub using Ganondorf. I'd be lucky if I ever got past round 1.

Also, I heard that Zelda got heavy nerfs while Ike and Link got buffed. Yet Zelda is higher than both of them and higher than she was on the Brawl tier list?

Advantage =/= victory, tiers, as I said, are based on a generalization of skills (eg. The majority of character A's abilities are more useful than character B's, so character A is better) however, unless a character absolutely exceeds another character in absolutely every area, that character is not "entirely" better. A skilled player will take advantage of the areas where his character excels and/or his opponent doesn't. Tiers also don't take into account individual player personality, skill, preference and tendencies, individually developed tactics and of course, element of surprise. To sum up, tiers tell which character is better in general, but not who is going to win in any individual match.

[Anacybele]

Advantage =/= victory, tiers, as I said, are based on a generalization of skills (eg. The majority of character A's abilities are more useful than character B's, so character A is better) however, unless a character absolutely exceeds another character in absolutely every area, that character is not "entirely" better. A skilled player will take advantage of the areas where his character excels and/or his opponent doesn't. Tiers also don't take into account individual player personality, skill, preference and tendencies, individually developed tactics and of course, element of surprise. To sum up, tiers tell which character is better in general, but not who is going to win in any individual match.

You're missing the point. I KNOW that it doesn't tell you who will win and all that. But if I go into competitive tournaments, people are going to use the highest tiered characters because they have the biggest advantage. I don't want to use them, I want to use Ike and Luigi, who are for some reason at the very bottom and two of the worst characters in the game. I'd be going in with a major disadvantage, regardless of how skilled I am at playing either of them. A skilled ZSS player will kick my ass. This is what tier lists tell you. That if two players of similar skill use Ike and ZSS, the ZSS player will very likely win.

except Marth still speaks Japanese

Which I still find to be bullshit as well since he has a game in English now. Therefore, he now speaks English and should in all of his appearances in an English game. Why the developers got lazy here, I'll never understand.

[Knight]

You're missing the point. I KNOW that it doesn't tell you who will win and all that. But if I go into competitive tournaments, people are going to use the highest tiered characters because they have the biggest advantage. I don't want to use them, I want to use Ike and Luigi, who are for some reason at the very bottom and two of the worst characters in the game. I'd be going in with a major disadvantage, regardless of how skilled I am at playing either of them. A skilled ZSS player will kick my ass. This is what tier lists tell you. That if two players of similar skill use Ike and ZSS, the ZSS player will very likely win.

Which I still find to be bullshit as well since he has a game in English now. Therefore, he now speaks English and should in all of his appearances in an English game. Why the developers got lazy here, I'll never understand.

Marth never had an English voice actor though, maybe that's their reasoning. (And allowing them to save some bucks on a VA)

As for the original argument, I understand your complaints, however I don't think tiers should discourage you from competing in tournaments, even with your favourite characters. (Always remember that an effectively utilized Pachirisu won the Pokemon World Tournament.)

[Jedi]

Also its been said Tiers don't matter as much this time around.

I understand your frustrations but simply? Prove people wrong.

Also still don't get why people insist Marth needs an English voice.

Edit: Marth actually has had an English va due to the Fire Emblem OVA where he shared said VA with Shinji of NGE

Edited October 1, 2014 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Marth never had an English voice actor though, maybe that's their reasoning. (And allowing them to save some bucks on a VA)

As for the original argument, I understand your complaints, however I don't think tiers should discourage you from competing in tournaments, even with your favourite characters. (Always remember that an effectively utilized Pachirisu won the Pokemon World Tournament.)

Yeah, well, some fans would like to understand what the hell he's saying and don't want to have to search everywhere to find translations just to do so. :/ IS was willing to get a VA for every character in Awakening. Surely NoA could've afforded just ONE more. I doubt they have a smaller budget than IS.

Well, I am kind of discouraged now. Why are my preferred characters always terrible? :( It was the same with Melee. Neither Link nor Luigi were very high on the list. I hadn't known about a Pachirisu winning the Pokemon World Tournament though, that's pretty interesting.

Also still don't get why people insist Marth needs an English voice

Because it's awkward and weird to have him speaking something just about no one out here understands? What's the point of him talking at all in the English version if no one understands him? And like I said, he has an English game now.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Anacybele

[FrostyFireMage]

I'm going to wait until more opinions are collected before putting any stock in any of these tier lists.

[Sock]

Marth still speaks Japanese

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHH

\o/

*happy dance*

[metalsnowman3]

Yeah tier lists really are made for like the top near flawless players and even then they aren't perfect. Just looking at Evo there was only 2 foxes and 1 falco in the top 8 and they are 1 and 2 in the tier list for melee. Also, the melee tier list still changes (slightly). Play whoever suits your play style and who you like to play as.

Also the people who are on the bottom tier are probably not as inept as like kirby was in melee so I wouldn't worry too much.

[Mighty Kamina]

That's the only list that has Palutena low at all.

Most lists have her high with the lowest being Ike, Megaman and Ganondorf

Then there is also this one http://i.gyazo.com/4f7ce42d42452a42a63e44b531ddc8c7.png

Also people have said even the lowest tiers are viable in this game so don't worry so much, but we still don't have a clear list as all this disagreement shows.

Yeah, I think this tier list will be vastly different than the later ones. Also Captain Falcon being so low again is a big no-no for me, as I've heard he's been buffed from Brawl. (Although his Melee incarnation is still the best version of him.)

[Anacybele]

Well, I hope you're right. Because I'd hate to repeatedly do badly in tournaments because I'm using bottom tier characters. And I'd hate for Ike and Luigi to be even worse than they are in Brawl. Ike wasn't exactly low there, but he was very close to it and Luigi just kept getting lower and lower...

I'm also keeping in mind that Japan dislikes Ike and is therefore probably not using him much period. Luigi though, I dunno, I thought he was a popular character overall...

[Mighty Kamina]

Well, I hope you're right. Because I'd hate to repeatedly do badly in tournaments because I'm using bottom tier characters. And I'd hate for Ike and Luigi to be even worse than they are in Brawl. Ike wasn't exactly low there, but he was very close to it and Luigi just kept getting lower and lower...

I'm also keeping in mind that Japan dislikes Ike and is therefore probably not using him much period. Luigi though, I dunno, I thought he was a popular character overall...

Also the Japanese tend to have different tier lists than NA, so that's a thing.

The only thing I agree with is Megaman being garbage. Also Fox/Falco being pretty low probably pushed away some Melee enthusiasts that wanted to give the game a shot.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Shulk

[FrostyFireMage]

I think everyone still has the "speedy=high tier" mentality.

[Anacybele]

Also the Japanese tend to have different tier lists than NA, so that's a thing.

But they aren't THAT much different, as far as I've heard. Or...are they?

[Mighty Kamina]

But they aren't THAT much different, as far as I've heard. Or...are they?

There are a few major differences. I'll just give you a link for the Japanese SSBB tier list. The differences from the NA tier list are at the bottom of the page. http://www.ssbwiki.com/Japanese_tier_list

[Anacybele]

There are a few major differences. I'll just give you a link for the Japanese SSBB tier list. The differences from the NA tier list are at the bottom of the page. http://www.ssbwiki.com/Japanese_tier_list

Ohhh, okay. Interesting. Even though neither Ike nor Luigi are placed any different here than in the NA list, I do feel better now.

[Jotari]

I'd prefer if Marth keeps a Japan voice actor already. It makes him seem cooler from my perspective. He's more exotic or something. Makes him stand out from the crowed. I don't particularly care what he's actually talking about in a fighting game, just so long as he sounds cool saying it.

[Mighty Kamina]

I'd prefer if Marth keeps a Japan voice actor already. It makes him seem cooler from my perspective. He's more exotic or something. Makes him stand out from the crowed. I don't particularly care what he's actually talking about in a fighting game, just so long as he sounds cool saying it.

I'd like him to speak English, honestly. It's just laziness at this point as Shadow Dragon was localized here, and his speaking of Japanese was to emphasizes his status as only ever appearing in Japan.

[Jave]

I think Marth keeping his Japanese voice is just tradition at this point. He's basically established as the resident bishounen of the series by now, so they might as well keep the voice that made him popular with the fans.

It's not like he has that many lines anyway. He has... what, three? Four?

[Jotari]

I'd like him to speak English, honestly. It's just laziness at this point as Shadow Dragon was localized here, and his speaking of Japanese was to emphasizes his status as only ever appearing in Japan.

But Lucas never had an English release and he still spoke English for his name calls. And now he has had a game and Marth still speaks Japanese so his history as a Japan only series is clearly not the reason he speaks Japanese. At least not now it's now. Maybe it was thirteen years ago but now his history in Smash is probably considered more important when it comes to Smash. I seriously doubt it's a case of laziness. They've given us so much in this game that they really didn't need to. I highly doubt they were sitting there in the office and someone pointed out they forgot to record lines for Marth and someone said "meh, I'm tired from programming all these awesome custom moves and clone characters that no one was expecting. I'm going to go home instead. I don't feel like sending a letter to someone who's job it is to record audio and would get paid as a result." The amount of work that goes in the games is astounding. I admit myself there is a lot of laziness and shortcuts involved as a result but it is barely ever something anyone ever notices. People are always complaining about the wrong things.

All that, plus if you want to play Marth in English then just use Lucina.

[Carter]

Not sure if y'all know, but all the starting characters have their English taunts up. Not really much to note, except Marth still speaks Japanese

I love the way ZSS says "You're mine" at 3:04.

And Zelda's new taunt looks great too! It looks like her Brawl Taunt though, just giving her a different pose.

[Anacybele]

All that, plus if you want to play Marth in English then just use Lucina.

Except Lucina isn't Marth. And some people hate Lucina, like me. I'm not planning on using either one though, so it's not THAT big a deal to me. It's just that I'm STILL going to hear Marth speaking a language I don't understand whenever I play against someone that uses him.

Going back to the taunts, why do we have THREE FE characters saying "Prepare yourself" now? :/ I still like Ike's the best (because deep manly voice and all), but now we have the Robins saying it as well as Ike and Lyn. Just...that's kind of boring. xP

But it's just a little nitpick, nothing really bothersome.

[IceBrand]

Marth still speaking Japanese is the same reason Ganondorf is still a semi-clone of Captain Falcon, because Sakurai. That and maybe tradition. It wouldn't hurt to have the option but what's done, is done(Unless DLC).

Edited October 1, 2014 by Ace Gamer