19 year old facing 8 years for sarcastic comment on League of Legends.

[Leinex]

I forgot that the police had to get a search warrant to find the weapons that the kid was going to use to carry out his "threat" before they arrested him.

Oh, wait. They didn't.

I think they have to do it before going to court, not arresting. If law enforcement goes rummaging through private property without a search warrant, any illegally seized evidence will be thrown out of court as per the Exclusionary Rule. It sounds like the trial hasn't happened yet, but the way things are now, I don't think prosecution has a very good chance of winning. Besides the defendant's statement, I don't see any solid evidence. Feel free to prove me wrong, though; I don't really follow the news.

I'm not sure about comments like the defendant's, but the First Amendment does protect the right to be racist, oddly enough. Obviously, that doesn't extend to hate crimes.

[Constable Reggie]

I'm going to go to all your houses and murder you with blunt weapons and smash your skulls in because I'm fucked up in the head like that.

lol

jk

omfg im reporting you to the police!!!

This reminds me of Cameron D'Ambrosio's case, where he was denied bail by a judge for being deemed a big enough threat due to posting expletive rap lyrics (20 years max btw if convicted btw, just add suspected terrorism into the mix!). Thankfully, the grand jury in his county aren't complete fucktards and refused to indict him, most likely based on common sense. Hopefully something similar happens for this case, because this is completely fucked up. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly defend this kid getting jail time for what he posted.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Florete]

tl;dr apparently english isn't anyone's major here. realizing sarcasm and reading between the lines is too hard, so let's troll harder, amirite.

Apparently it's not yours, either. As an English major I can say with certainty that sarcasm is not something we are taught.

I know that wasn't actually your point, but that was still a pretty retarded way to try getting your point across.

There's also the part where I don't see anyone not catching your sarcasm. English really isn't your major.

Actually, to be fair there, a LOT of people who would shoot up a school actually call up the authorities saying that they're going to do it first. It's a way of getting attention, which some criminals crave.

So after some quick digging around...

http://www.fbi.gov/houston/press-releases/2012/katy-man-arrested-for-making-a-terroristic-threat

It seems that the only thing that was possibly misreported was bond, which according to this, an FBI article made at the time of arrest, was

$100,000 rather than a half a million (and even then, it's possible it went up since the arrest).

Double posting: bad.

[Rehab]

He reported having depressive/suicidal thoughts, so they put him in solitary confinement. As somebody with depression: welcome to the own zone, kid

Kinda feels like the only way to win that one is to not be there.

My interpretation is that the poor dumbass, subjectively, sounds more socially maladjusted than provably psychopathic. Some reaction, including something by authorities, was and is probably within the realm of being a good idea, but "let's put him in prison" ok yeah good job problem solved you fuckin idiots

One of the (many) problems in play here is that there's like nothing in between "can't do anything sorry" and "have them arrested (and put in a normal prison)" in this country, wrt institutionalized mental healthcare. They took down the asylums, which given their condition was a good idea, and then replaced them with

Edited July 19, 2013 by Rehab

[buttmuncher.ops]

I bring this up as you imply that this is part of trash talk in the game, which is not correct, it was on facebook. It kinda is a lot of your post talking about trash-talking on online games. I don't blame you though, that misinformation has been going around in articles that it took place in a LoL game for ages.

And "all the gamers you know"? It seems a good majority of the people in this thread disagree with you, I guess they're not "true gamers". Maybe it's just me.

if it's on facebook, that's even worse and i probably now understand why that woman took an interest in reporting the exchange to the authorities. police have used facebook before to catch criminals, i can't state every case with certainty, but i remember an incident probably a year ago where some idiot that had an arrest warrant out would update his facebook through mobile so everyone could see his location every so often. shit happens. police detectives always have a procedure they go through and apparently someone with authority decided this particular exchange on facebook was a real threat.

and i guess maybe they aren't true gamers, maybe they are. i really only talk to gamer friends that are used to being top 10-50 around the world, actively participate in tournaments, cons, etc.

I like that in the same post in which I point out that you utterly waved over a poster's cogent points you proceeded to accuse me of missing your points. Nobody likes a copycat man.

How old are you? Seriously? I'm willing to bet that eight years is a very sizable chunk of time compared to how long you've been alive. Do you really, truly, honestly think that eight years in prison is a fair punishment towards a teenager who like literally millions of others goes off the deep end like this? Are you seriously of the opinion that the best way to deal with an inappropriate outburst like this is having someone in a cell for eight years?

ye, eight years is a third of my life. sizable chunk of my formative years. i'm going to copycat you again and respond with an extreme question since that's the theme here.

do you seriously think it's okay to go into schools and kill children then eat their hearts? by signing that petition you're saying you agree with what carter said and you support it? and you're seriously thinking about doing it yourself, as well as letting the media blow it up so other people can think and act that way as well? is anarchy really what you strive for?

Apparently it's not yours, either. As an English major I can say with certainty that sarcasm is not something we are taught.

i lol'd irl, because that's really funny to me.

i was formally taught sarcasm from 7th grade on in classes from english to history, ranging from regular to honors / ap as well as throughout general education. i feel sorry for whatever shitty schools you went to that didn't have decent teachers / professors that didn't have at least one analysis or critique of sarcastic and ironic writing in their curriculum.

but i guess i digress from my main point which was basically that there's a lot of stupid people out there that support other stupid people. thanks for using your top tier english major skills to figure that out, i'm glad at least one person understood my point

[Florete]

i lol'd irl, because that's really funny to me.

i was formally taught sarcasm from 7th grade on in classes from english to history, ranging from regular to honors / ap as well as throughout general education. i feel sorry for whatever shitty schools you went to that didn't have decent teachers / professors that didn't have at least one analysis or critique of sarcastic and ironic writing in their curriculum.

but i guess i digress from my main point which was basically that there's a lot of stupid people out there that support other stupid people. thanks for using your top tier english major skills to figure that out, i'm glad at least one person understood my point

See, when you said "English major," I kind of just figured you were talking about college courses, because learning stuff in 7th grade has absolutely nothing to do with whatever major a kid may end up choosing. Sure, I've had my share of reading satire and irony (which doesn't always translate perfectly as "sarcasm" anyway), but that all ended in high school. The point: being an English major says nothing about a person's sarcasm skills.

I guess what we've determined from this is that Justin Carter was taught sarcasm and felt like applying it but the authorities who arrested him never were. Thus, schools are better today than they used to be.

Of course, we also learned that I'm a top tier English major. But I could have just told you all that.

[Constable Reggie]

do you seriously think it's okay to go into schools and kill children then eat their hearts? by signing that petition you're saying you agree with what carter said and you support it? and you're seriously thinking about doing it yourself, as well as letting the media blow it up so other people can think and act that way as well? is anarchy really what you strive for?

Thank goodness we arrested justin carter before he proceeded with his plan of eating children's still beating hearts.

Why not just haul in everyone who says things others overreact to? Why not arrest me for saying:

Oh yeah, I'm real messed up in the head, I'm going to go shoot up a school full of kids and eat their still, beating hearts LOL JK

[Redwall]

I wonder how many more posts it will take before someone else points out the apparent lack of any provable-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt mens rea.

[buttmuncher.ops]

bc general ed doesnt imply college courses, good to know you read everything clearly instead of selectively, totally putting your skills to work

that's the correct way to respond reggie, maybe with a bit more extremism. let's keep this circle going, who's next

Edited July 20, 2013 by black op: skyfang

[Constable Reggie]

I think it's pretty blatantly obvious that they won't be able to prove intent (see: similar recent case),

A 15-year-old Chicago high school sophomore with the twitter handle @Mark12394995 tweeted about the Zimmerman trial before a verdict had been reached.

“If Zimmmerman free imma shoot everybody in Zion causing a mass homicide, and ill get away wit it just like Zimmerman [all sic],” he wrote.

...

But the police say they found "no credibility" to the threat. "He has no weapons and no access to weapons," an official told The News-Sun. The teen was soon let go with a Class 4 felony, disorderly conduct.

but of course there's a lot of stupid people out that that support the stupid people in charge who will try to argue otherwise.

@Skyfang, hey, if Carter should go to jail for posting that on facebook, why shouldn't I go to jail for posting the same thing on a public forum? After all, I have just as much intent as Carter does to proceed with what I wrote.

[Lord Raven]

do you seriously think it's okay to go into schools and kill children then eat their hearts? by signing that petition you're saying you agree with what carter said and you support it? and you're seriously thinking about doing it yourself, as well as letting the media blow it up so other people can think and act that way as well? is anarchy really what you strive for?

Weren't you the guy that talked about raping girls and burying them in chat once? Actually, yes, you were and I know at least one other person that can verify it.

At any rate, that wasn't even his point. His point was that an off-hand comment made in (poor, which nobody disagrees to) humor should not get 8 years in prison. That's not an extreme question, that is the question of the thread.

So should you be going to jail?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Lord Raven

[buttmuncher.ops]

my point, in case you missed it, was that nobody knows if he's going to go to jail for sure, it's up to the judge to decide the sentence. and nobody really knows for sure if he really planned to go ahead with what he said. i.e. why i've been repeating extremism.

there's no middle ground for this case and how to deal with it. the police chose one side to go with here, which can be loosely classified as "better safe than sorry." we can discuss this all we want, but could you come up with a better solution for carter? some sort of slap on the wrist? i certainly can't, and as stupid as it is to have a heavy sentence for one distasteful joke, the other extreme side is to let someone with these violent thoughts to be let loose on the street, with the possibility of casualties and no preventative rehabilitation put in place beforehand for said person.

police take anyone into custody when it's visible without a doubt that they have a chance of hurting themselves or others. as for why it went to trial, people have repeated that there's not enough information released in the thinking of police and prosecution procedure. therefore, i have the stance that it's okay to be safe than sorry, with some misgivings about the possibility of an extreme sentence

Edited July 20, 2013 by black op: skyfang

[Constable Reggie]

we can discuss this all we want, but could you come up with a better solution for carter?

Of course we fucking can: don't charge him with something that could put him in jail for up to 8 years and has a bail bond of $500,000. The "better safe than sorry" bullshit doesn't apply to our legal system, because we're dealing with people's lives here. Should we have charged this kid too with making terroristic threats? Why not detain and overcharge everyone suspected of possibly performing criminal acts in the future? It's better to be safe than sorry, right? Everyone's guilty until proven innocent.

After all, we wouldn't want ANARCHY AND TERRORISM to prevail, right?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[eclipse]

This thread must've hit a nerve or something, because the tone went way the hell off the deep end while I was gone. Keep it civil.

[Constable Reggie]

This thread must've hit a nerve or something, because the tone went way the hell off the deep end while I was gone. Keep it civil.

You should probably just ban everyone who participated in this thread, since we might possibly do something bad in the future. Better safe than sorry, right?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[buttmuncher.ops]

Of course we fucking can: don't charge him with something that could put him in jail for up to 8 years and has a bail bond of $500,000. The "better safe than sorry" bullshit doesn't apply to our legal system, because we're dealing with people's lives here. Should we have charged this kid too with making terroristic threats? Why not detain and overcharge everyone suspected of possibly performing criminal acts in the future? It's better to be safe than sorry, right? Everyone's guilty until proven innocent.

After all, we wouldn't want ANARCHY AND TERRORISM to prevail, right?

the other extreme side is to let someone with these violent thoughts to be let loose on the street, with the possibility of casualties and no preventative rehabilitation put in place beforehand for said person.

dat selective reading i keep talking about. it's cool bro, pick a stance and blindly follow it. i'll keep trying to talk stupid people into thinking about the other side.

[eclipse]

You should probably just ban everyone who participated in this thread, since we might possibly do something bad in the future. Better safe than sorry, right?

1. That was a warning to everyone to keep it civil.

2. I have not had a good day in a while. Don't push my temper.

EDIT: If the second part wasn't clear enough, if you don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself.

Edited July 20, 2013 by eclipse

[Redwall]

dat selective reading i keep talking about. it's cool bro, pick a stance and blindly follow it. i'll keep trying to talk stupid people into thinking about the other side.

we can't prosecute people for having violent thoughts fyi

[Constable Reggie]

@skyfang

Perhaps you should learn about our justice system, then, because that's precisely how it is right now. Our system's (or at least it's intended to be) stacked against the prosecution on the notion that convicting the innocent is far, far worse than freeing the guilty. We don't throw people in prison just on suspicions (this is of course completely fucked up by simply mentioning "terrorism", but whatever). Carter was clearly being sarcastic and had no intention (or the means) to shoot up a school. There's no "other side" to think about, because it's clearly an overreaction. It's like saying "think of the officer's side" when a cop indiscriminately shoots a barking dog. You keep trying to justify it based on being safe than sorry, but again, that's a horrifying way to think when we're talking about people's lives. Should we throw you in prison for mentioning raping+burying girls? Should we jail someone who says he hates blacks on the mere suspicion that he might illegally discriminate in the future?

How can you not see how stupid it is to support Carter being charged with something so extreme?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[eclipse]

Perhaps you should learn about our justice system, then, because that's precisely how it is right now. Our system's (or at least it's intended to be) stacked against the prosecution on the notion that convicting the innocent is far, far worse than freeing the guilty. We don't throw people in prison just on suspicions (this is of course completely fucked up by simply mentioning "terrorism", but whatever). Carter was clearly being sarcastic and had no intention (or the means) to shoot up a school. There's no "other side" to think about, because it's clearly an overreaction. It's like saying "think of the officer's side" when a cop indiscriminately shoots a barking dog. You keep trying to justify it based on being safe than sorry, but again, that's a horrifying way to think when we're talking about people's lives. Should we throw you in prison for mentioning raping+burying girls? Should we jail someone who says he hates blacks on the mere suspicion that he might illegally discriminate in the future?

How can you not see how stupid it is to support Carter being charged with something so extreme?

If this isn't addressed to me, my apologies. Disregard the rest of this.

I came in here to tell everyone to tone it down, because I saw tempers flaring. I thought your response was completely unwarranted, and still think it is. This has nothing to do with the issue at hand, and everything to do with how people are conducting themselves within this thread. Again, I will repeat myself - if you have nothing nice to say, keep it to yourself. Freedom of speech does not free you from the consequences of your speech, and it is no different on these forums. In other words, think before putting your thoughts out into the world. Just because it's easier for people to put their opinions out there doesn't mean it's a good idea to put every single stray thought out into the open!

If you want my feelings about the subject at hand, read backwards; I suspect there's things that aren't being reported, because this entire debacle, at face value, makes no sense.

EDIT: Y'know what. . .the last couple of sentences in the second paragraph applies to everyone. Including me.

Edited July 20, 2013 by eclipse

[Constable Reggie]

My bad, should have made it clear I was responding to skyfang.

If you want my feelings about the subject at hand, read backwards; I suspect there's things that aren't being reported, because this entire debacle, at face value, makes no sense.

I doubt it, just look at D'Ambrosio's case (pretty much the same thing, just with a 20 year max instead of 8). The grand jury refused to indict him, probably because they thought the whole thing was just as absurd as this is.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[buttmuncher.ops]

i'm pretty sure i agreed with you that it was extreme, and even said so multiple times in my post. i basically told you that i'm picking the lesser of two evils. nowhere in your post did you come up with a middle ground for carter and people that state violent intent clearly (and neither did i.) whether or not it was meant as a joke doesn't matter.

simply saying he should walk free doesn't agree with me, because i'm one of those people that takes 1% chances into account. i don't even want to get into whether or not he was really being sarcastic / had intent to go through with it, it's been rehashed that no one knows what goes on in another person's mind. i also don't like the police, but i don't think they'd waste their time making a decision to prosecute someone unless an authority decided it was safer for the public. then again, fuck the police, because corrupt cops, and maybe they just want to make an example of some kid. who knows for sure? if the judge / jury decide not to send him to jail, i'll be just as happy.

the real question here is how do you value yourself as a part of society, and yet think it's okay for anyone to make threats involving women and children, reference columbine-like intentions and then try to pass it off as "loljk"? i personally think it's pretty stupid to accept that kind of behavior from anyone. apparently our society's evolved to abhor obesity and smoking but thinks threatening school children is okay.

and yes, this discussion concluded what he said was a threat like two pages ago. what carter said isn't protected under the texas penal code and / or the first amendment, and can't be passed off as a joke as well. the fact of the matter is that we could sit around discussing this all day, but if you want a real conclusion, go ask a lawyer and / or detective.

[Constable Reggie]

i'm pretty sure i agreed with you that it was extreme, and even said so multiple times in my post. i basically told you that i'm picking the lesser of two evils. nowhere in your post did you come up with a middle ground for carter and people that state violent intent clearly (and neither did i.) whether or not it was meant as a joke doesn't matter.

You know, you never did say whether or not I should be jailed for saying the same thing (with as much intention) Justin Carter did. Why do we have to appeal to overreacting idiots who don't understand what context is? If you actually look at what he said in context, it's stupidly clear that he was being sarcastic. His friend is saying he's crazy/insane, Carter mocks that claim with the sarcastic post everyone's so damn afraid of. But of course, the judge who signed the arrest warrant doesn't know this because the police intentionally took his one quote out of context (including taking the lol j/k part out) when getting the warrant.

the real question here is how do you value yourself as a part of society, and yet think it's okay for anyone to make threats involving women and children, reference columbine-like intentions and then try to pass it off as "loljk"? i personally think it's pretty stupid to accept that kind of behavior from anyone.

Yes, I do think it's okay, because it's protected by our constitution. Unless it can be proven they intend to go through with what they say, let them say whatever they want (this doesn't mean I don't think police should take these things seriously). I may think less of them for doing so, but I'm not going to advocate throwing them into fucking jail.

and yes, this discussion concluded what he said was a threat like two pages ago. what carter said isn't protected under the texas penal code and / or the first amendment, and can't be passed off as a joke as well. the fact of the matter is that we could sit around discussing this all day, but if you want a real conclusion, go ask a lawyer and / or detective.

Some people have already explained that no one could possibly prove that Carter had intent to fulfill what he said. So yes, it is protected. Here's an extremely distinguished lawyer talking about how absolutely insane this case is.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Esau of Isaac]

ye, eight years is a third of my life. sizable chunk of my formative years. i'm going to copycat you again and respond with an extreme question since that's the theme here.

do you seriously think it's okay to go into schools and kill children then eat their hearts? by signing that petition you're saying you agree with what carter said and you support it? and you're seriously thinking about doing it yourself, as well as letting the media blow it up so other people can think and act that way as well? is anarchy really what you strive for?

Yeah. I think children everywhere should be eaten alive. Throw some Frank's Red Hot on I put that shit on everything

Do you think that not supporting him being thrown in jail for eight years for making an overblown comment means you support eating children

i'm pretty sure i agreed with you that it was extreme, and even said so multiple times in my post. i basically told you that i'm picking the lesser of two evils. nowhere in your post did you come up with a middle ground for carter and people that state violent intent clearly (and neither did i.) whether or not it was meant as a joke doesn't matter.

simply saying he should walk free doesn't agree with me, because i'm one of those people that takes 1% chances into account. i don't even want to get into whether or not he was really being sarcastic / had intent to go through with it, it's been rehashed that no one knows what goes on in another person's mind. i also don't like the police, but i don't think they'd waste their time making a decision to prosecute someone unless an authority decided it was safer for the public. then again, fuck the police, because corrupt cops, and maybe they just want to make an example of some kid. who knows for sure? if the judge / jury decide not to send him to jail, i'll be just as happy.

the real question here is how do you value yourself as a part of society, and yet think it's okay for anyone to make threats involving women and children, reference columbine-like intentions and then try to pass it off as "loljk"? i personally think it's pretty stupid to accept that kind of behavior from anyone. apparently our society's evolved to abhor obesity and smoking but thinks threatening school children is okay.

and yes, this discussion concluded what he said was a threat like two pages ago. what carter said isn't protected under the texas penal code and / or the first amendment, and can't be passed off as a joke as well. the fact of the matter is that we could sit around discussing this all day, but if you want a real conclusion, go ask a lawyer and / or detective.

So do you think Constable Reggie should go to jail for eight years?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Esau of Isaac

[Baldrick]

People make politically incorrect jokes all the time. The statement was so over-the-top that if he had the kind of person who would actually consider doing that, then he'd probably have a history of making such statements and already be on medication/in an asylum/etc. The fallout from this is not a reasonable reaction.