19 year old facing 8 years for sarcastic comment on League of Legends.

[The Objection!]

Seriously? This is just plain weird.

Arresting someone for a joke in an online game?

So there was a school shooting when he said this, so what? It could've been anyone.

I mean seriously, if he DID the school shooting, would he make a joke about it?

I'm not saying it's entirely impossible, but arresting people for a bad joke is not funny at all. And yet there is this possibility that we're not hearing the whole story.

[Life]

I forgot that the police had to get a search warrant to find the weapons that the kid was going to use to carry out his "threat" before they arrested him.

Oh, wait. They didn't.

Are you retarded or something? Read the section of the Texas Penal Code that I posted and then tell me that he DIDN'T break the law by threatening a school shooting on a kindergarten class. What warrant, I want to make sure that he doesn't have the chance to even go out and buy a weapon just to carry through "for lolz".

Joke or no, there is a fine line when it comes to saying shit like that. I truly hope that the case doesn't get thrown out and this kid gets made an example out of. Rather than putting the massacres themselves on a high pedestal, let's use this.

[buttmuncher.ops]

trying to find fault in police procedure doesn't change the fact that the kid's an idiot and made a threat, however so idle it may be.

idk if what Life quoted is true, but all i know for sure is that the main point from the OP here was that he should be protected under the first amendment for what he said, except i'm 110% sure that threats aren't protected under the first, EVEN IF YOU SAY IT'S A JOKE AFTER.

and if what Life quoted is true, then what are you arguing here? he would go to jail either way. bam, case closed

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

The [precedent behind the] first amendment AND the Texas penal code say you need TO HAVE INTENT to act on threats for the government to charge you with a crime. If they find proof that he had considered doing this seriously, then I agree with you. But the outrage of this is that they don't (from the information that we know). Unless they find a weapon corresponding with the threat, or repeated statements observed by witnesses, or the like, they have no legal grounds to arrest him. In this respect, it isn't even an argument; it's a statement of fact codified in both state and national law.

The state needs to:

A) Have the threat, AND

B) Have proof that he was intending to act on it.

They might have A, but they do not have B (again, as far as we know).

Edited July 19, 2013 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Life]

(a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to:

(4) cause impairment or interruption of public communications, public transportation, public water, gas, or power supply or other public service;

(5) place the public or a substantial group of the public in fear of serious bodily injury; or

(6) influence the conduct or activities of a branch or agency of the federal government, the state, or a political subdivision of the state.

Read the bold. So no, hardly a violation of the law. There is obviously no intent to do ANY of those things, bad joke or not. Unless we get considerably more evidence that points to an intent to act on his words, you have no case.

You don't know that for a fact, regardless of the fact that it was intended to be a joke. Like it or not, there are people that exist who would think at this point "I wonder what it would be like to actually try that".

And a threat of any kind actually is classified as intent. It is written intent here, even stronger than hearsay. Once again, regardless of whether or not this kid was going to go through with it, he made the thread which signals a possibility of intention to go through with it.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

You don't know that for a fact, regardless of the fact that it was intended to be a joke. Like it or not, there are people that exist who would think at this point "I wonder what it would be like to actually try that".

And a threat of any kind actually is classified as intent. It is written intent here, even stronger than hearsay. Once again, regardless of whether or not this kid was going to go through with it, he made the thread which signals a possibility of intention to go through with it.

I can't say that he did not intend to carry it out for certain, because I don't know him and I'm not a mindreader; hell, he might just BE serious about it. However, our legal system says you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he DID intend to carry out the threat, not just question whether he might have.

And besides, the Texas penal code wouldn't specifically separate the making of the threat and the intent to carry it out because they assume it's one of the same (i.e. making the threat isn't considered absolute proof that you intend to carry it out).

Edited July 19, 2013 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Esau of Isaac]

because you see shit like this in professional competitive athletic communities too. football and basketball stars totally running their mouth about harming kids when they talk shit to the other team's players.

gtfo with that noise, there's obviously a connection between violent competitive video games and sick fucks who take that violence to their real world that you dont want to admit here, or rather dont want to see the precedents set beforehand

You're brain damaged if you think the trash-talk you hear over XBL is a real and serious threat that needs devoting of prison time and manpower from the justice system. I simply refuse to believe that you truly hold the opinion that someone is mentally ill for making harsh comments over videogames. No one is that stupid or unfamiliar with the modern world.

ye, because i'm going to have the weapons laid out right in front if they knock, even if they can remotely get a judge to approve a search warrant.

good luck with that

Way to respond to his post which pointed out the massive glaring flaw in your jaded viewpoint with a ridiculous non-answer that missed the point entirely.

Are you retarded or something? Read the section of the Texas Penal Code that I posted and then tell me that he DIDN'T break the law by threatening a school shooting on a kindergarten class. What warrant, I want to make sure that he doesn't have the chance to even go out and buy a weapon just to carry through "for lolz".

Joke or no, there is a fine line when it comes to saying shit like that. I truly hope that the case doesn't get thrown out and this kid gets made an example out of. Rather than putting the massacres themselves on a high pedestal, let's use this.

You hope a seventeen-year-old kid spends eight years in prison for overreacting while playing an online game?

Seriously. Really. Honestly. After having thought this one through. You think this is a logical course of events.

wow

[buttmuncher.ops]

best case of missed points entirely i've seen yet in the post above

selective reading is why no one takes what you say seriously. let's just go ahead and ignore exactly what was uttered by a lolfag, classify it as "trash talk" instead of an actual threat plus ignore all the evidence, precedents, specific law quotes and domestic terrorist events presented in the discussion and decide to spew a bunch of diarrhea in a last word post, shall we?

carry on

Edited July 19, 2013 by black op: skyfang

[Raven]

@Raven: I wouldn't throw stones in glass houses. IIRC, hasn't Britain jailed people for making offensive comments on Twitter/Facebook? From what I hear, the UK has a bigger issue with stupid shit like this than the US. Frankly, I think both countries need to step back and apply common sense instead of paranoia. I, at least, would appreciate it.

Tell me where I mentioned Britain's justice system. We are talking about a case in the USA here, not Britain. If you want to turn this into a UK v USA justice system thing, go make a new topic. Just because I said "your" (USA's) justice system is fucked up, it doesn't mean I don't think mine isn't. Fuck me.

Back on topic; I agree that this kid shouldn't have said the stupid shit he did, but being jailed for 8 whole fucking years without even proving solid evidence that he had the mens rea to pull off such a thing? It won't happen. He needs to be made an example of in some way for saying that dumb shit yes, but to wreck his life and send him to jail is not the right way.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Raven

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Tell me where I mentioned Britain's justice system. We are talking about a case in the USA here, not Britain. If you want to turn this into a UK v USA justice system thing, go make a new topic. Just because I said "your" (USA's) justice system is fucked up, it doesn't mean I don't think mine isn't. Fuck me.

My apologies then. Your original post just came across to me as a little, well, elitist. I thought that's where you were coming from, and so I took it the wrong way.

[Tryhard]

I'm going to go to all your houses and murder you with blunt weapons and smash your skulls in because I'm fucked up in the head like that.

lol

jk

If they actually cared about justice they would have investigated, and found this guy was clearly joking, and released him. But 8 years? Trying to make an example of him. There was a recent rapist case where the convicted guy only got 7 years.

guess you're just a paranoid fuck black op: skyfang

Edited July 19, 2013 by Kelsper

[buttmuncher.ops]

totally paranoid about trolls living in mom's basement making distasteful comments over the internet and trying to cover them up as jokes. also paranoid about the precedent that columbine set so the government has to treat 100% of said distasteful comments as legitimate threats.

yup, that's totally me, you got me with cold hard logic bro, gg.

[Tryhard]

also paranoid about the precedent that columbine set so the government has to treat 100% of said distasteful comments as legitimate threats.

So why isn't everyone else who says similar shit or worse shit getting 8 years or similar in jail as well? I wonder.

yup, that's totally me, you got me with cold hard logic bro, gg.

oh, it's nice that we could come to that, well played, gg.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Kelsper

[NICKT™]

totally paranoid about trolls living in mom's basement making distasteful comments over the internet and trying to cover them up as jokes. also paranoid about the precedent that columbine set so the government has to treat 100% of said distasteful comments as legitimate threats.

yup, that's totally me, you got me with cold hard logic bro, gg.

I pray that you do not find yourself upon XBL, or just about majority of online competitive interaction between heated, youthful players.

[buttmuncher.ops]

tl;dr apparently english isn't anyone's major here. realizing sarcasm and reading between the lines is too hard, so let's troll harder, amirite.

i'd love to repeat the facts of the discussion all over again for those who have a hard time understanding english, but it's way too early in the morning for that so i'll just correct the last one: trash talk =/= threat.

i've played league of legends and there's really no room in that game to imply shooting up kids at a school is a form of trash talking. where does that even fit into the game? trash talk in that game would probably consist of shitting on someone for feeding, horrible rated account, win loss record, bad player skill blah blah. a response to opponent's trash talk by threatening the lives of schoolchildren doesn't fall under the trash talk category, pure and simple.

your basic human rights in this country extend as far as possible until they come in contact with another person's rights. this is why threats and slander aren't protected under the first amendment, even if you try to claim it as a joke afterwards (repeating myself here from like 10 posts ago for ESL kids).

so this stance you have that his words are "trash talk" and therefore should be shoved under the rug of free speech just isn't going to do here, sorry, but nice try.

p.s. i play dota 2 probably 5 hours a day which probably has the worst community base when it comes to shitting on others with trash talk, i'm also guilty of it i'll admit it. yet in all my 8 years of playing player vs player games professionally and unprofessionally i've never made or seen anyone make distasteful jokes that reference columbine-like intentions. we just don't play that shit, it's uncalled for, and we know better than that.

so your query as to why other people aren't getting the same consequences, i simply don't know because i guess i don't see these columbine-like threat jokes as regularly as you do? if i did, i would be sure to report them, which i guess you aren't doing, hence you wonder why they go unpunished, amirite. i guess i've been off madden and halo for too many years now as well, because apparently all the trash talk in XBL is the popular "reference columbine-like intention here" joke. that's become the norm for XBL now, has it? charles barkley thinks it's turrible.

seriously though, in case my sarcasm above frightened the ESL students; all the gamers i know wish stupid fucks like this carter kid would stop giving the rest of the gaming population a bad reputation by feeding the "violent game" = "violent actions" stereotype. that stereotype is probably the singular reason why that woman took specific interest and action for his words, most likely not even knowing it would develop into this.

you'll probably disagree with me out of spite again anyway, but if you're a gamer on a gaming forum who actually enjoys gaming, whether it's casual, competitive, vs environment or vs prey humans, i don't see how you could allow deviants like carter to get away with something so fucking stupid that potentially misrepresents everyone else.

Edited July 19, 2013 by black op: skyfang

[Lord Raven]

From a personal standpoint I'm inclined to agree that maybe this was an overreaction, but the kid was stupid considering I thought it was common knowledge by now that stuff like that can get you in trouble.. I'm not saying he's messed up or ill-intent but it was definitely the worst taste in trash talk I've seen in a while considering we had in this year a school shooting -_-

Having that said, for every one of these locked up, we have someone who is actually arrested in conjunction with terrorist activities and the possibilities of a school shooting (this guy was from my high school, even though he got caught the year after I graduated... he's my friend's brother and I remember hearing my friend was incredibly shaken up when he found out too).

EDIT: Although unlike the case I just linked where there was legitimate conspiracy, I doubt this guy will be found guilty for being involved in acts of terror or something considering he wasn't... I mean he said JK -_-

Edited July 19, 2013 by Lord Raven

[Tryhard]

tl;dr apparently english isn't anyone's major here. realizing sarcasm and reading between the lines is too hard, so let's troll harder, amirite.

Yeah let's start out with this in a post, seems like a good idea.

i've played league of legends and there's really no room in that game to imply shooting up kids at a school is a form of trash talking. where does that even fit into the game? trash talk in that game would probably consist of shitting on someone for feeding, horrible rated account, win loss record, bad player skill blah blah. a response to opponent's trash talk by threatening the lives of schoolchildren doesn't fall under the trash talk category, pure and simple.

I'm not sure if you're that familiar with the case, as the comment wasn't actually IN league of legends, it was on facebook. The only reference LoL has to the story is the fact that he is a LoL player.

The exchange, according to Flanary:

Person A: Youre effin crazy

Carter: Im fucked in the head alright, I think Imma shoot up a kindergarten and watch the blood of the innocent reign down.

Person B: I hope you fucking burn in hell you fucking prick.

Carter: And eat the burning heart of one of them.

lol jk

"For one thing, intent will be incredibly difficult prove for the prosecution, as they’ll have to show that Carter’s aim was to induce the sort of activity described in subsections 4, 5, and 6. The facts of the case simply don’t support that.

Flanary points out that Carter’s comments were made in a private conversation, and not directed toward the general public, which is one reason he believes the prosecution doesn’t have much of a case."

http://www.policymic.com/articles/55381/prosecution-of-justin-carter-for-facebook-post-is-a-texas-sized-legal-blunder

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/12/tech/social-media/facebook-jailed-teen/index.html (doesn't have exchange on it, but says facebook loud and clear)

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/03/tech/social-media/facebook-teen-jail/

I bring this up as you imply that this is part of trash talk in the game, which is not correct, it was on facebook. It kinda is a lot of your post talking about trash-talking on online games. I don't blame you though, that misinformation has been going around in articles that it took place in a LoL game for ages.

your basic human rights in this country extend as far as possible until they come in contact with another person's rights. this is why threats and slander aren't protected under the first amendment, even if you try to claim it as a joke afterwards (repeating myself here from like 10 posts ago for ESL kids).

As posted above by Kngt_of_Titania, which you didn't respond to, there was no intent in the threat (joke) so I don't even think should be outside the first ammendment. But then again, I'm not from 'MURICAH, so what would I know? Dismiss me right away.

all the gamers i know wish stupid fucks like this carter kid would stop giving the rest of the gaming population a bad reputation by feeding the "violent game" = "violent actions" stereotype. that stereotype is probably the singular reason why that woman took specific interest and action for his words, most likely not even knowing it would develop into this.

The "violent game" = "violent actions" stereotype will exist with or without this sole person saying this. And him feeding a stereotype (which no-one has ever done ever) does not mean they should put him away and throw away the key.

And "all the gamers you know"? It seems a good majority of the people in this thread disagree with you, I guess they're not "true gamers". Maybe it's just me.

you'll probably disagree with me out of spite again anyway, but if you're a gamer on a gaming forum who actually enjoys gaming, whether it's casual, competitive, vs environment or vs prey humans, i don't see how you could allow deviants like carter to get away with something so fucking stupid that potentially misrepresents everyone else.

I don't disagree with you out of spite, I disagree with you because I literally can't understand how you can think this kid should rightfully go to jail, when there was no indication of intent. Maybe we aren't getting the full story, but I am just saying that it is pretty ridiculous with the information we have now.

There was also other information about the case, such as there was the possibility that he was raped in prison (something they "couldn't discuss") and he was placed on suicide watch. Seems nice.

Justice systems, though, whatcha gonna do? (Ours is not any better, probably worse.)

Edited July 19, 2013 by Kelsper

[Dandragon]

I'm just gonna come in and say this now: both sides are at fault.

On one end: While it may have been a joke, saying that casually to random people online is not the smartest idea. People don't know your intentions and therefore can be suspicious of you. They have the right of opinion to at least question you, even if you do say "lol jk"

HOWEVER

On the other end: 8 years for a comment on the internet without a search warrant or a trial for a random comment on the internet. I'm sorry, but how many trolls on the internet have said something worse than going through with a school shooting? And this women just HAPPENS to come across this comment, and gets him thrown in jail for 8 years, coming out with no chance of survival with this on his record, no job, no nothing.

In short, the comment shouldn't have been made, but the authorities fucked up. The blame is not to be distributed equally, but the guy wasn't exactly without fault.

[Xander]

Serves him right

[Espinosa]

tbqh the woman is the one who should be jailed for 8 years. She got the police all worked up over a stupid internet comment.

[dondon151]

Joke or no, there is a fine line when it comes to saying shit like that. I truly hope that the case doesn't get thrown out and this kid gets made an example out of. Rather than putting the massacres themselves on a high pedestal, let's use this.

yeah, i do sincerely hope that the courts utterly ruin his life.

EDIT: i don't know any person who at one point in their adolescence hasn't expressed their urge to kill someone.

Edited July 19, 2013 by dondon151

[cyron]

Back on topic; I agree that this kid shouldn't have said the stupid shit he did, but being jailed for 8 whole fucking years without even proving solid evidence that he had the mens rea to pull off such a thing? It won't happen. He needs to be made an example of in some way for saying that dumb shit yes, but to wreck his life and send him to jail is not the right way.

well, he didn't have any weapons, but its not really hard to improvise one, i mean a glass bottle a scrap of cloth and gasoline (or other flammable liquid isn't hard to obtain, its effective, if one was thrown into a class room it would not be good. A butchers knife would work to, its really not hard to obtain a weapon. This is not to say that i think he intended to go murder a bunch of kids, but you know, that comment was just rude, insensitive and wrong he shouldn't have said it, unless they can determine without a reasonable amount doubt that he planned to do it, he doesn't deserve 8 years for saying something stupid because he got worked up over the internet.

also, if you were planning to do something like that, wouldn't it defeat the purpose if you told someone?

[Blademaster!]

This case will probably just get thrown out like the guy who wrote graffiti on that bank wall, but it does send out a good message. Sucks this guy has to be a martyr. Though I remember something like this also happened during the Zimmerman trial, and I don't think there has been much follow up with that, which just makes me think this is Texas being Texas.

[FionordeQuester]

also, if you were planning to do something like that, wouldn't it defeat the purpose if you told someone?

Actually, to be fair there, a LOT of people who would shoot up a school actually call up the authorities saying that they're going to do it first. It's a way of getting attention, which some criminals crave.

So after some quick digging around...

http://www.fbi.gov/houston/press-releases/2012/katy-man-arrested-for-making-a-terroristic-threat

It seems that the only thing that was possibly misreported was bond, which according to this, an FBI article made at the time of arrest, was

$100,000 rather than a half a million (and even then, it's possible it went up since the arrest).

Edited July 19, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire

[Esau of Isaac]

best case of missed points entirely i've seen yet in the post above

selective reading is why no one takes what you say seriously. let's just go ahead and ignore exactly what was uttered by a lolfag, classify it as "trash talk" instead of an actual threat plus ignore all the evidence, precedents, specific law quotes and domestic terrorist events presented in the discussion and decide to spew a bunch of diarrhea in a last word post, shall we?

carry on

I like that in the same post in which I point out that you utterly waved over a poster's cogent points you proceeded to accuse me of missing your points. Nobody likes a copycat man.

How old are you? Seriously? I'm willing to bet that eight years is a very sizable chunk of time compared to how long you've been alive. Do you really, truly, honestly think that eight years in prison is a fair punishment towards a teenager who like literally millions of others goes off the deep end like this? Are you seriously of the opinion that the best way to deal with an inappropriate outburst like this is having someone in a cell for eight years?