Most Overrated Pairings

[I.M. Gei]

lol, then you don't know how overrated the pairing really is. I don't need to get off the internet or put away my 3DS at all, thanks.

okay well keep on with the then, just don't complain when people make fun of you

reap what you sow!

[Airship Canon]

Laurent does get overlooked by everyone, but Noire? She's a girl in a fan-service like game, so it's hard to ignore her.

Everyone talks about her Mother and really she gets ignored to high heaven.... >_<;;

Opinions are opinions of course, but I don't even like the changed version of that scene.

I dunno, but it's certainly a thing to say this:

Normal: Shows how strong and resolute/determined Lucina is.

Mother: Shows that she's human- she can succumb to her emotions. She's strong, but she's not superhuman. She understands the risks, but also understands what she'd be doing to herself by killing her own mother- someone she lost when young.

Husband: Shows a lot of the same emotions behind what she had with FeMU/Mother. Also shows a strong case of development- as she used to go as far as to neglect herself for the sake of her mission. Now she understands that that way of thinking is wrong, and puts herself and her emotions first.

[Anacybele]

It changes that ONE particular scene in chapter 21, but nothing else.

Exactly. Yet people act like it changes every single scene the two have in the game.

I admit to being a rather rabid fan of FrederickxFemale Avatar, but you don't see me going around and acting like that. I don't say it's canon, it's only my headcanon. I don't rant about the different interpretations I could have about scenes featuring both of them that can occur after they're S-supported. I just say I enjoy the pairing and that's that.

[Vashiane]

Everyone talks about her Mother and really she gets ignored to high heaven.... >_<;;

I dunno, but it's certainly a thing to say this:

Normal: Shows how strong and resolute/determined Lucina is.

Mother: Shows that she's human- she can succumb to her emotions. She's strong, but she's not superhuman. She understands the risks, but also understands what she'd be doing to herself by killing her own mother- someone she lost when young.

Husband: Shows a lot of the same emotions behind what she had with FeMU/Mother. Also shows a strong case of development- as she used to go as far as to neglect herself for the sake of her mission. Now she understands that that way of thinking is wrong, and puts herself and her emotions first.

Huh. That's an interesting way to think about it.

But no, the reason I actually dislike the altered versions of that scene isn't because of Lucina - that was done really well - it's Chrom's reaction when he comes to stop her. He sounds so... flat, compared to the default one that I couldn't fully appreciate the moment like I wanted to. I actually got the mother/daughter scene before the default one, and Chrom's reaction actually felt human the second time around.

Exactly. Yet people act like it changes every single scene the two have in the game.

I admit to being a rather rabid fan of FrederickxFemale Avatar, but you don't see me going around and acting like that. I don't say it's canon, it's only my headcanon. I don't rant about the different interpretations I could have about scenes featuring both of them that can occur after they're S-supported. I just say I enjoy the pairing and that's that.

The only other scene it might add some depth to is the one where they refer to each other as "two halves of the same whole". And that whole deal about the Avatar being a sly cat. Pet nicknames, anyone?

[ZemZem]

Its because Light Magic is not in this game

Derp

Derp

Noire would be the best Bishop. 8I

[Lissa's Husband]

Frederick x Lissa. While it may seem logical at first, the S support just seems like a friendship that just randomly turns into marriage.

[Aquakat]

And right on cue I finished my popcorn. No, seriously, I saw the title of this thread and went to make popcorn. It was most entertaining.

Now then... my opinions? Well, I'm filling out the support library now to check out which ones are my favorites, but I've some ideas of which ones I do dislike. Which is, obviously, what this topic is about, right? Just with a more 'polite' name?

ChromxSumia - I do not like the supports and don't feel like the story gave enough to balance out the supports, as I do with the Female!AvatarxChrom supports (to word it differently - not enough interactions in game with Sumia to balance out the one-note supports while Chrom and Avatar have a lot that can be taken either romantically or platonically depending on perspective). I like how a female!AvatarxChrom pairing changes some of the... oh, what's the word... implications(?) of the story? Yeah, we'll go with that.)

StahlxSully. This is a good support, but I just like the two as friends.

ChromxOlivia. Lovely supports. Too bad that, if you marry them, you never see them in game. The only benefit I see to it is some rather hilarious dialogue and that's... not enough for me.

FrederickxCordelia. ...I'm sorry, but this to me is just the worse. Good C and B and rather humorous A, but... god, that S support was just "wtf" and I didn't like that paired ending at all. It just felt bad.

...Actually, I think there are a lot of pairings where I see good C-A but then the S supports makes me go "uh... wha?". Huh.

One thing that kinda bothers me about the changed scene is Lucina's reluctance, honestly. From Lucina's POV and from what the characters knew at the time, killing the avatar should stop the future of doom that Lucina and the other children came from, right? She's all capable of killing the avatar even if s/he is related to her in any other way (married Lissa, married Owain, married Lucina's brother or sister, is Lucina's in-law, etc.) and yet when it's her own mother or husband, then she's suddenly incapable of doing it.

I hate to bring up another FE game into this, but I admired Elincia in FE10 strongly for being able to make the decision to let Lucia die for the sake of Crimea. Lucina (and Chrom's) inability to let MU go under their respective circumstances made me facepalm at them. Lucina, if you're going to kill the avatar to spare the world, not killing the avatar if s/he's your mother/husband makes you look selfish.

Truth be told, given the circumstances, I'd prefer Lucina continue trying to kill Avatar anyway as well due to a) Avatar being Grima and b) the fire emblem having been stolen. And I would've liked it if the game did have those 'flags' to check whether Avatar was related to Lucina in ANY way, but from what I've seen in the handful of interviews I've scanned, I'm guessing they sorta underestimated the power in the 3ds.

That being said, I do like how Lucina finds herself faltering. I much prefer the scene with a related Avatar simply because it shows her emotions which, to be honest, you don't see a lot in the story other than her intro (and when Basilio 'dies') due to how focused/determined she is. I do wish that Chrom had yelled at her a bit, but I eventually reasoned out that it could be that he knew Lucina wouldn't be able to go through with it. The two ARE very similar, after all.

Exactly. Yet people act like it changes every single scene the two have in the game.

I admit to being a rather rabid fan of FrederickxFemale Avatar, but you don't see me going around and acting like that. I don't say it's canon, it's only my headcanon. I don't rant about the different interpretations I could have about scenes featuring both of them that can occur after they're S-supported. I just say I enjoy the pairing and that's that.

Eh, it could be people taking the implications/different-meanings as changing it. It could also be crazy shippers who don't know the difference between canon and headcanon, the same ones who make unfortunate implications about fans (perhaps by mistake) and then complain when people call them out on it.

Regardless, headcanon is headcanon and, often, doesn't change even when canon dictates otherwise.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Kat

[shadowofchaos]

how much you hate it and how it pains you that you can't find much fanart of Female Avatar/other guys

I got my own artist. I can get glorious art of FeMU x anything. Even a rock.

The only other scene it might add some depth to is the one where they refer to each other as "two halves of the same whole".

He says that to MaMU as well.

SUUUUUBTEEEEXT.

the S support just seems like a friendship that just randomly turns into marriage.

A lot of the S supports happen that way.

Edited August 6, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Vashiane]

I got my own artist. I can get glorious art of FeMU x anything. Even a rock.

He says that to MaMU as well.

SUUUUUBTEEEEXT.

A lot of the S supports happen that way.

That's not subtext, that's text just begging to be taken out of context. XD

[Sunwoo]

Truth be told, given the circumstances, I'd prefer Lucina continue trying to kill Avatar anyway as well due to a) Avatar being Grima and b) the fire emblem having been stolen. And I would've liked it if the game did have those 'flags' to check whether Avatar was related to Lucina in ANY way, but from what I've seen in the handful of interviews I've scanned, I'm guessing they sorta underestimated the power in the 3ds.

That being said, I do like how Lucina finds herself faltering. I much prefer the scene with a related Avatar simply because it shows her emotions which, to be honest, you don't see a lot in the story other than her intro (and when Basilio 'dies') due to how focused/determined she is.

I kind of wish she tried to kill the avatar regardless of relations. Like, by all means, give me a different dialogue scene if they are related because it only makes sense. Yes, Lucina is human and I'm glad that it shows that she's more than just determined, but in a way it still feels selfish.

The second time I played FE13 I actually played as a feMU paired to Chrom. Before that, I played as a maMU married to Miriel and Laurent married to Lucina. So the chapter 21 scenes I got in my first two playthroughs were "you may be my father-in-law but I must kill you like everyone else" to "MOTHER I LOVE YOU TOO MUCH!" I can understand "mother/husband I love you too much" but FROM LUCINA'S POV the avatar had to die to save the world. She was not strong enough to sacrifice someone SHE loved for the good of the world. While if it's not her own dear mother or husband the avatar's death must come first. And that really bugged me.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Sangyul

[Airship Canon]

Huh. That's an interesting way to think about it.

But no, the reason I actually dislike the altered versions of that scene isn't because of Lucina - that was done really well - it's Chrom's reaction when he comes to stop her. He sounds so... flat, compared to the default one that I couldn't fully appreciate the moment like I wanted to. I actually got the mother/daughter scene before the default one, and Chrom's reaction actually felt human the second time around.

I dunno, Chrom was watching the whole thing play out. I get this feeling that he understood, at the point where he did step in that Lucina was -not- going to harm her mother/husband (Doesn't have the heart for it), he didn't need to go overboard, but he needed to say what he did.

I kind of wish she tried to kill the avatar regardless of relations. Like, by all means, give me a different dialogue scene if they are related because it only makes sense. Yes, Lucina is human and I'm glad that it shows that she's more than just determined, but in a way it still feels selfish.

The second time I played FE13 I actually played as a feMU paired to Chrom. Before that, I played as a maMU married to Miriel and Laurent married to Lucina. So the chapter 21 scenes I got in my first two playthroughs were "you may be my father-in-law but I must kill you like everyone else" to "MOTHER I LOVE YOU TOO MUCH!" I can understand "mother/husband I love you too much" but FROM LUCINA'S POV the avatar had to die to save the world. She was not strong enough to sacrifice someone SHE loved for the good of the world. While if it's not her own dear mother or husband the avatar's death must come first. And that really bugged me.

Yet at the same time, it makes sense. A tad selfish, maybe, but honestly, it makes a lot of sense- and is some of the best writing in the game. Lucina is weighing the emotional cost of losing someone she loves against the potential to lose the war. It's an incredibly hard call- sure you might be her aunt, uncle, or father-in-law, (or Mother-in-law (alright, this case might be a -bit- different, because of just how Morgan is-- Lucina killing FeMU who's Morgan married Lucina, would almost certainly carry the weight of losing her husband as well)), but you'd have to understand losing someone like that is a lot less of an emotional loss than losing your lover or mother.

When she's got that weight, it makes sense to break under certain weights. Her remaining resolute to kill her mother or husband would've came off as... wrong. But her not breaking for any other case? It's someone who may be your friend, may be a relative (But not an outright nuclear family member) or the risk of losing everything. That's a tough call, but a lot easier to make.

[Vashiane]

I dunno, Chrom was watching the whole thing play out. I get this feeling that he understood, at the point where he did step in that Lucina was -not- going to harm her mother/husband (Doesn't have the heart for it), he didn't need to go overboard, but he needed to say what he did.

Yet at the same time, it makes sense. A tad selfish, maybe, but honestly, it makes a lot of sense- and is some of the best writing in the game. Lucina is weighing the emotional cost of losing someone she loves against the potential to lose the war. It's an incredibly hard call- sure you might be her aunt, uncle, or father-in-law, (or Mother-in-law (alright, this case might be a -bit- different, because of just how Morgan is-- Lucina killing FeMU who's Morgan married Lucina, would almost certainly carry the weight of losing her husband as well)), but you'd have to understand losing someone like that is a lot less of an emotional loss than losing your lover or mother.

When she's got that weight, it makes sense to break under certain weights. Her remaining resolute to kill her mother or husband would've came off as... wrong. But her not breaking for any other case? It's someone who may be your friend, may be a relative (But not an outright nuclear family member) or the risk of losing everything. That's a tough call, but a lot easier to make.

Which makes me wonder why the hell he didn't step in earlier once he figured out what was going on.

[Sunwoo]

Yet at the same time, it makes sense. A tad selfish, maybe, but honestly, it makes a lot of sense- and is some of the best writing in the game. Lucina is weighing the emotional cost of losing someone she loves against the potential to lose the war. It's an incredibly hard call- sure you might be her aunt, uncle, or father-in-law, (or Mother-in-law (alright, this case might be a -bit- different, because of just how Morgan is-- Lucina killing FeMU who's Morgan married Lucina, would almost certainly carry the weight of losing her husband as well)), but you'd have to understand losing someone like that is a lot less of an emotional loss than losing your lover or mother.

When she's got that weight, it makes sense to break under certain weights. Her remaining resolute to kill her mother or husband would've came off as... wrong. But her not breaking for any other case? It's someone who may be your friend, may be a relative (But not an outright nuclear family member) or the risk of losing everything. That's a tough call, but a lot easier to make.

It doesn't mean that it wasn't a selfish choice, however. Again, hate to bring FE10 into this but Elincia was prepared to sacrifice her milk sister for the good of her country. Lucina couldn't sacrifice her lover or mother for what she thought would be the good of the world. As much as I can understand the emotional aspect this does not stop it from being a selfish choice.

[Airship Canon]

Which makes me wonder why the hell he didn't step in earlier once he figured out what was going on.

He knows MU and Lucina's relationship at that point- he'd step in to take action if necessary, but isn't going to if he doesn't need to (despite needing to talk to Lucina afterwards, in part to explain why she's wrong)- and would rather see his daughter stand down of her own volition. He's not exactly stupid-- he clearly knew what she was planning, and was intentionally keeping an eye on her to make sure she doesn't.

It doesn't mean that it wasn't a selfish choice, however. Again, hate to bring FE10 into this but Elincia was prepared to sacrifice her milk sister for the good of her country. Lucina couldn't sacrifice her lover or mother for what she thought would be the good of the world. As much as I can understand the emotional aspect this does not stop it from being a selfish choice.

Never said it wasn't selfish, but at the same time, her remaining resolute to kill people that close to her would come off as too strong, and hardly admirable. It's really in part to her not being so absolutely resolute that makes her a great character.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Airship Canon

[Aquakat]

I kind of wish she tried to kill the avatar regardless of relations. Like, by all means, give me a different dialogue scene if they are related because it only makes sense. Yes, Lucina is human and I'm glad that it shows that she's more than just determined, but in a way it still feels selfish.

The second time I played FE13 I actually played as a feMU paired to Chrom. Before that, I played as a maMU married to Miriel and Laurent married to Lucina. So the chapter 21 scenes I got in my first two playthroughs were "you may be my father-in-law but I must kill you like everyone else" to "MOTHER I LOVE YOU TOO MUCH!" I can understand "mother/husband I love you too much" but FROM LUCINA'S POV the avatar had to die to save the world. She was not strong enough to sacrifice someone SHE loved for the good of the world. While if it's not her own dear mother or husband the avatar's death must come first. And that really bugged me.

Completely understandable. Personally, I think its something that would've been better with slightly more variation like what you've described. Or, you know, headcanon. ^^;;; headcanon makes everything better, yay?

[Sunwoo]

Never said it wasn't selfish, but at the same time, her remaining resolute to kill people that close to her would come off as too strong, and hardly admirable. It's really in part to her not being so absolutely resolute that makes her a great character.

This is highly debatable, and more so it's how you personally feel. You can't say that "it's really in part to her not being so absolutely resolute that makes her a great character" with a straight face like it's fact, because it's not if others disagree with you.

What bothers me about that scene is Lucina's inconsistency. If Lucina decided in BOTH versions that it's murder and she couldn't go through with it, I'd be fine. if Lucina decided in BOTH versions that she had to go through with it for the sake of the world, I'd be fine. It's the fact that she only holds herself back in the version where the people who matter most to HER personally that she decides she can't do it that I'm calling out as a selfish choice and bothers me. And that's the big thing. TO HER PERSONALLY. I don't find it admirable that she holds back only when someone close to her is at stake while she's to willing to kill off anyone else's loved one.

Highly temped to link that fic where Lucina kills her MU husband anyway.

[Phoenix Wright]

Actually, no. He's NOT adorable.

And that picture is hideous, and I wish I never clicked on it.

I've never heard of Henry/Olivia.. Why do people think it's so great?

They first one is hideous, as well, and I almost fainted.

But the second one was kinda funny, so I guess you got me there.

This Walhart hate does not compute.

Hm...pairings that I think are overrated...Olivia and Chrom, I guess? Also, I don't see what's so great about Kellam x Nowi.

[Loki Laufeyson]

*reads thread*

Hmmm.

People play Awakening for its plot.

Who knew. :B

I like Olivia/Chrom for gameplay reasons because, what measure is a non-plot in this game? Who cares!

[Florete]

It's a good thing I didn't check this thread a few pages ago because it was so shitty back there I would have just locked it altogether, not even bothering to send it to FftF. Luckily, it got better. If it ever goes back there, well...use your imagination.

Chrom x Avatar (F) teh best.

[shadowofchaos]

[spoiler=Quote Block]

I dunno, Chrom was watching the whole thing play out. I get this feeling that he understood, at the point where he did step in that Lucina was -not- going to harm her mother/husband (Doesn't have the heart for it), he didn't need to go overboard, but he needed to say what he did.

Yet at the same time, it makes sense. A tad selfish, maybe, but honestly, it makes a lot of sense- and is some of the best writing in the game. Lucina is weighing the emotional cost of losing someone she loves against the potential to lose the war. It's an incredibly hard call- sure you might be her aunt, uncle, or father-in-law, (or Mother-in-law (alright, this case might be a -bit- different, because of just how Morgan is-- Lucina killing FeMU who's Morgan married Lucina, would almost certainly carry the weight of losing her husband as well)), but you'd have to understand losing someone like that is a lot less of an emotional loss than losing your lover or mother.

When she's got that weight, it makes sense to break under certain weights. Her remaining resolute to kill her mother or husband would've came off as... wrong. But her not breaking for any other case? It's someone who may be your friend, may be a relative (But not an outright nuclear family member) or the risk of losing everything. That's a tough call, but a lot easier to make.

Which makes me wonder why the hell he didn't step in earlier once he figured out what was going on.

It doesn't mean that it wasn't a selfish choice, however. Again, hate to bring FE10 into this but Elincia was prepared to sacrifice her milk sister for the good of her country. Lucina couldn't sacrifice her lover or mother for what she thought would be the good of the world. As much as I can understand the emotional aspect this does not stop it from being a selfish choice.

He knows MU and Lucina's relationship at that point- he'd step in to take action if necessary, but isn't going to if he doesn't need to (despite needing to talk to Lucina afterwards, in part to explain why she's wrong)- and would rather see his daughter stand down of her own volition. He's not exactly stupid-- he clearly knew what she was planning, and was intentionally keeping an eye on her to make sure she doesn't.

Never said it wasn't selfish, but at the same time, her remaining resolute to kill people that close to her would come off as too strong, and hardly admirable. It's really in part to her not being so absolutely resolute that makes her a great character.

Completely understandable. Personally, I think its something that would've been better with slightly more variation like what you've described. Or, you know, headcanon. ^^;;; headcanon makes everything better, yay?

This is highly debatable, and more so it's how you personally feel. You can't say that "it's really in part to her not being so absolutely resolute that makes her a great character" with a straight face like it's fact, because it's not if others disagree with you.

What bothers me about that scene is Lucina's inconsistency. If Lucina decided in BOTH versions that it's murder and she couldn't go through with it, I'd be fine. if Lucina decided in BOTH versions that she had to go through with it for the sake of the world, I'd be fine. It's the fact that she only holds herself back in the version where the people who matter most to HER personally that she decides she can't do it that I'm calling out as a selfish choice and bothers me. And that's the big thing. TO HER PERSONALLY. I don't find it admirable that she holds back only when someone close to her is at stake while she's to willing to kill off anyone else's loved one.

Highly temped to link that fic where Lucina kills her MU husband anyway.

It's a good thing I didn't check this thread a few pages ago because it was so shitty back there I would have just locked it altogether, not even bothering to send it to FftF. Luckily, it got better. If it ever goes back there, well...use your imagination.

Chrom x Avatar (F) teh best.

Sorry to break up the party, guys...

I'm taking the third option:

[Phoenix Wright]

*reads thread*

Hmmm.

People play Awakening for its plot.

Who knew. :B

In some ways, it's like a shitty SyFy movie, ya know? Just entertaining and hilarious to experience how bad it is every once in a while.

[Loki Laufeyson]

In some ways, it's like a shitty SyFy movie, ya know? Just entertaining and hilarious to experience how bad it is every once in a while.

Definitely Sharknado style, brah.

[Aquakat]

Highly temped to link that fic where Lucina kills her MU husband anyway.

I think I read that one. Was it on FF.net? I remember one there that was rather well done, enough to make me tear up.

...You know, the next FE should have multiple paths/flags to create a varying storyline. Okay, chances of that are probably rather low considering that's a lot of extra writing, but still. That would be pretty cool.

[Sunwoo]

I think I read that one. Was it on FF.net? I remember one there that was rather well done, enough to make me tear up.

...You know, the next FE should have multiple paths/flags to create a varying storyline. Okay, chances of that are probably rather low considering that's a lot of extra writing, but still. That would be pretty cool.

It was. Pretty much everything I read is on fanfiction.net.

It would be really cool to have varying story lines depending on the player's choices, I agree. It kind of sucked that despite the fact that Awakening gives you various choices throughout the game, none of them actually change the option of the game.

[kDog214]

Lol. Can't we all just accept the fact that we play this game differently and just move on. I like how over the course of two threads there's really no CLEAR consensus or guideline as to what exactly constitutes being under- or, in this case, OVERRATED because, for whoever is concerned, people care more about one thing or another (optimization, supports, etc.). This is a good thing in that it makes all of our approaches to this game fairly unique and diverse. If humanity was "Being John Malkovich," then life would be fucking boring and awkward as hell, you know that?

I swear from the optimization point of view, it's like this:

You like the support? Well, congratulations! You just screwed one of your kids! n00b.

And then fom the support/story point of view, it's like this:

Pssht! You and your optimization. You people are shallow and don't appreciate the effort that was placed into the supports!

Let's face it, there is always a compromise between the two, no pairing is better than the other for whatever the reason, and it really comes down to your personal tastes/preferences that determine how you play the game. After all, this is for "your money's worth." No one is barking orders at you. You do what you want. There's really no point in throwing salt at each other...Sheesh.

I won't lie, I play purely for optimization, but I've also done my fair share of supports (lol it's nearly complete except alternative marriages >_>') and can tell you that both are enjoyable aspects of this game. From the optimization point of view, optimizing only makes this game slightly easier. BUT (uh oh, the big but) you still have to grind, which is a HUGE pain in the arse. Why I personally go through and deal with this shit, I'll never truly know. Though, once I'm done, it's certainly worth one- to two-turning all the DLC maps (except Roster Rescue...DAMN YOU!!!). From the support/story point of view, I can tell you, "Holy shit! Most of these are fun and enjoyable!" especially during the grind because it kills time and certainly makes it worth the time and effort. While it's unnecessary (much like optimization) and makes the story somewhat convoluted and otherwise full of plot holes at times, it certainly brought out some of the best dialogues.

Anyway, you're all intelligible. You've probably read, heard, or thought about all this at one point or another. In fact, I'm probably not the first person to bring this crap up. But for whatever the reason, this is here and this thread exists...and we're all probably having a good time beating each other's heads in. xD

Edited August 6, 2013 by kDog214