I love fire emblem Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Vaike or Fred are fine. Depends if you want better mods or access to wyvern tree skills. I'd probably prefer one class overlap over 2/3 class trees overlap, but Vaike!Yarne does have slightly better mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yeah but neither give him +hit and Yarne already has what he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I love fire emblem Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The thing with Yarne to me is that his mods will always be decent in some form or another, it's just that is class inheritence are a bit problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Frederick. Yarne gets access to Pavis and Aegis and can be a semi-decent frontliner with a Pavis/Aegis and Quick Burn/Lucky 7 combo to became a physical and dodge tank. He even gets the Wyvern Rider class tree to abuse with Axefaire (though he should've had the Wyvern Rider class tree from the beginning, but IS decided otherwise). Yarne isn't a frontliner, though. In Apo, tanking doesn't matter because pretty much everything can 2HKO you no matter what, but by getting kills and escaping enemy range with Galeforce, you'll always be fine. Yarne can't do this since he lacks GF and would thus be reliant on Rescue to escape. Even if he could, when using Brave weapons the rear unit gets to attack around twice as many times as the lead, so any damage boosters they have will have double the effect. Since Agg is unique to males, they generally have a lot more Atk and thus should stay in the back for maximum damage output and thus maximum chance of getting the kill. Ignoring all that, tanking in Apo is already a bad idea, but PavGis don't even help. Since you should only ever be engaging in battles on your terms, you can insure that the RNG's worst-case scenario will always leave you alive. Since you'll always have staffbots to heal you inbetween battles, there's really no difference between surviving a battle at 1HP or 85HP. Thus, PavGis would only ever make a difference if their activation prevented you from dying, and since 100% PavGis is impossible outside of extremely dedicated and otherwise useless setups, any case where they protect you would involve you relying on the RNG to avoid death; something you should never, ever do. Furthermore, there is a large amount of Hawkeye in Apo. Discounting Dragonskin, it's one of the most common skills on the map, so Avo really isn't doing much to help. Even for enemies without it, hackforges and high Skl/Lck caps make dodgetanking shifty at best outside of dedicated builds designed to thwart individual enemies (and even those are usually too niche to be used). But since all the enemies one would even care about dodging don't show up until later, even if dodgetanking was desired, Quick Burn and Lucky 7 would have worn off by them and became dead weight. Long story short, Yarne is not and never should be a frontliner. Berserkers > Wyverns for support, by the way. Berserkers are stronger and give better pairup bonuses. Out of Kellam, Vaike and Fred, it really doesn't matter. All of them are OK, but any way you go he'll just be sitting in the back dreaming of Hit+20 and maybe using multiple Breakers. Vaike lets him have both Lancebreaker and Axebreaker, so he might be the best. Maybe. I'm using Vaike!Yarne in my current team, and while I can't really get rid of him, he's definitely the one I'm least happy with outside of the extremely niche build I need him for. Edited October 31, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloe Neo Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Stahl x Sully = Kjelle as a great paladin with solid stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizziah Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Stahl x Sully = Kjelle as a great paladin with solid stats. But that's a lot of Kjelle pairings. Most of the cool stuff Stahl can do for kids is already done by Kjelle herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Stahl x Sully = Kjelle as a great paladin with solid stats. But that's a lot of Kjelle pairings. Most of the cool stuff Stahl can do for kids is already done by Kjelle herself. Also, class overlap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) · Hidden by Ϲharlie, October 31, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Ϲharlie, October 31, 2015 - No reason given Aww come on... Edited October 31, 2015 by Levant Colthearts Link to comment
sylveonzoroark Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Also, class overlap. But that's a lot of Kjelle pairings. Most of the cool stuff Stahl can do for kids is already done by Kjelle herself. And that atrocious hair. http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qcamCTTTA6U/maxresdefault.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Stahl x Sully = Kjelle as a great paladin with solid stats. That's neither a question nor an answer, who are you talking to? Regardless, Stahl!Kjelle is really bad. 2/4/3 Str/Skl/Spd is very lackluster next to Gaius!Kjelle's 1/5/5, Vaike!Severa's 5/4/4 and Lon'qu!Severa's 2/6/6, so stats aren't really going in her favor. She has massive class overlap, getting only Archer (a class she doesn't need) out of Stahl, and she's left without GF. On top of that, Stahl is a high demand father with a lot of good children, so doing this hurts more than just Kjelle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Out of Kellam, Vaike and Fred, it really doesn't matter. All of them are OK, but any way you go he'll just be sitting in the back dreaming of Hit+20 and maybe using multiple Breakers. Vaike lets him have both Lancebreaker and Axebreaker, so he might be the best. Maybe. I'm using Vaike!Yarne in my current team, and while I can't really get rid of him, he's definitely the one I'm least happy with outside of the extremely niche build I need him for. wouldn't he prefer Swordbreaker from Panne? Fred lets him get all three breakers, but idk if that's even a good idea. Edited November 1, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 There are very few Swords in Apo, the map is dominated by Axes and Lances (including both of the Throne enemies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yarne isn't a frontliner, though. In Apo, tanking doesn't matter because pretty much everything can 2HKO you no matter what, but by getting kills and escaping enemy range with Galeforce, you'll always be fine. Yarne can't do this since he lacks GF and would thus be reliant on Rescue to escape. Even if he could, when using Brave weapons the rear unit gets to attack around twice as many times as the lead, so any damage boosters they have will have double the effect. Since Agg is unique to males, they generally have a lot more Atk and thus should stay in the back for maximum damage output and thus maximum chance of getting the kill. Ignoring all that, tanking in Apo is already a bad idea, but PavGis don't even help. Since you should only ever be engaging in battles on your terms, you can insure that the RNG's worst-case scenario will always leave you alive. Since you'll always have staffbots to heal you inbetween battles, there's really no difference between surviving a battle at 1HP or 85HP. Thus, PavGis would only ever make a difference if their activation prevented you from dying, and since 100% PavGis is impossible outside of extremely dedicated and otherwise useless setups, any case where they protect you would involve you relying on the RNG to avoid death; something you should never, ever do. Furthermore, there is a large amount of Hawkeye in Apo. Discounting Dragonskin, it's one of the most common skills on the map, so Avo really isn't doing much to help. Even for enemies without it, hackforges and high Skl/Lck caps make dodgetanking shifty at best outside of dedicated builds designed to thwart individual enemies (and even those are usually too niche to be used). But since all the enemies one would even care about dodging don't show up until later, even if dodgetanking was desired, Quick Burn and Lucky 7 would have worn off by them and became dead weight. Long story short, Yarne is not and never should be a frontliner. Berserkers > Wyverns for support, by the way. Berserkers are stronger and give better pairup bonuses. Out of Kellam, Vaike and Fred, it really doesn't matter. All of them are OK, but any way you go he'll just be sitting in the back dreaming of Hit+20 and maybe using multiple Breakers. Vaike lets him have both Lancebreaker and Axebreaker, so he might be the best. Maybe. I'm using Vaike!Yarne in my current team, and while I can't really get rid of him, he's definitely the one I'm least happy with outside of the extremely niche build I need him for. I was thinking while having my birthday party about this I could switch around the pairings of Cordelia x Vaike thus Panne x Virion So the pairings would be Chrom x Olivia FeMu x Chrom!Inigo Gaius x Sully Gregor x Miriel Sumia x Henry Tharja x Lon'qu Cherche x Stahl Cordelia x Vaike Lissa x Ricken Maribelle x Libra Nowi x Donnel Panne x Virion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) I saw a mention of Hex/Anathema Berserker for Laurent a few pages back and while I was going to go Dread Fighter to preserve his tome usage, I wonder if that would be more beneficial for Spd!MaMU!Wyvern Kjelle? Considering that she'd use axes and all. fwiw this is also because I like Kjelle and Laurent together; I'm aware he probably has better support options but shipping, man Edited November 1, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) I was thinking while having my birthday party about this I could switch around the pairings of Cordelia x Vaike thus Panne x Virion So the pairings would be Chrom x Olivia FeMu x Chrom!Inigo Gaius x Sully Gregor x Miriel Sumia x Henry Tharja x Lon'qu Cherche x Stahl Cordelia x Vaike Lissa x Ricken Maribelle x Libra Nowi x Donnel Panne x Virion Those all sound good. Though I dunno how much Noire gets from Lon'qu, besides mods. And happy birthday. Edited November 1, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Cordelia x Vaike thus Panne x Virion Hey, happy birthday! I should probably elaborate a little on why I'm not having a ball with Vaike!Yarne: it's not about Apo (he's really great there), it's every other map. I like to play the rest of the postgame maps without all the big Apo preparations (no Rallies, no Staffbots, no tonics/forges and some skills switched out for fun things like Deliverer, Despoil, AT and +Mov/Crit skills). Doing that, Yarne really has no alternate class options- he's more or less stuck as a Hero, and it gets boring after a while. That probably should be important to you because it's pretty underwhelming to invest dozens of hours in planning and creating a full 16 pair Apo team, spend an hour or two beating the map, and then being done with everything, but if it's not, then Yarne will take Vaike just fine. I saw a mention of Hex/Anathema Berserker for Laurent a few pages back and while I was going to go Dread Fighter to preserve his tome usage, I wonder if that would be more beneficial for Spd!MaMU!Wyvern Kjelle? Considering that she'd use axes and all. fwiw this is also because I like Kjelle and Laurent together; I'm aware he probably has better support options but shipping, man They'll work very well together. Assuming you're not running a -Mag or -Res flaw, they'll hit the highest Spd threshold with no sacrifices or extra skills whatsoever (so room for a procstack on Morgan), have no Hit issues while still hitting like a truck, and also being well suited to change to a magical pair if it should ever catch your fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrophys Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 So, I've planning out the newer Apotheosis [and postgame run] that I mentioned earlier. I'm currently on Ch. 9, so I'm still a long ways off. The only pairing that is currently set in stone [in the sense that its already S-rank and can't be altered short of restarting the file] is Chrom x Sumia, although for all intents and purposes I know that I'm also doing Avatar (+SPD/-DEF) x Cordelia. I'm not going to be placing any particular restrictions this time [nothing like no-DLC], although like CzarYoshi mentioned I might do the other postgame maps without all the Apotheosis prep stuff. How do these kids sound: (1.) Sumia!Lucina & (2.) Chrom!Cynthia [already set in stone] (3.) +SPD/-DEF Avatar!Severa & (4.) Cordelia!Morgan(+SPD/-DEF) [Plan to pass down Axefaire] (5.) Ricken!Inigo, paired with one of Severa or Morgan ----> This gives Inigo diverse access to four -faires [sword and Axe on his own, Tome and Bow from Ricken] and he's an Armsthrift user, which has no real combat value in a double-Gale pair when you can carry extra copies but makes Apotheosis runs significantly more convenient by reducing the number of forged weapons that you burn through. His class access lets him play physical or magical support to Severa/Morgan regardless of whether they go magic options [like Valkyrie, which he can do Sage or Dark Knight for] or if they go for stuff like Wyvern, he can do stuff like Berserker or Bow Knight for 75 SPD Wyverns…. Gets Luna + Astra as an optional proc stack. (6.) Gregor!Brady, paired with one of Severa or Morgan ----> Another arms thrift unit with varied [tomefaire, Axefaire, sword faire], with classes like Sage, Dark Knight, Paladin, Hero, Bow Knight, Berserker, Assassin, etc. to play varied support, physical or magical as needed. (7.) Libra!Owain [less class access, but grants him Vengeance access and two more mage classes in promotion [sorcerer, Dark Knight]. He is a vantage+Venegance Galeforce capable unit…not that I'll use (8.) Donnel!Kjelle (9.) Gaius!Noire ----> These two are more from me thinking that Donnel x Sully is a nicer couple than Donnel x Tharja, as well as me thinking that Donnel's purplish hair goes well with Kjelle's armor and the orange hair looking really nice on Noire. [it also reminds me of Yukari Takeba, who shares Noire's English VA and whose hair is somewhat in a middle ground between orange and brown, depending on the image; they're also both archers]. Anyways, Donnel!Kjelle basically ends up as a superior Cordelia with regards to mods [the same STR/MAG/SKL/SPD, but 5 better luck [+4 vs. -1], 1 more DEF, and 2 more res; they also share their Pegasus and Mercenary classes and get a proc, although they switch Vengenance vs. Luna, Kjelle doesn't get Hexathema but she does get more weapon faires [swordfaire from Sully's classes]. Gaius!Kjelle can be a +4 SPD Assassin, which brings her to 50 SPD and means she can trivially reach 75 in Apotheosis. She gets both Swordfaire and Bowfaire access this way. (10.) Henry!Gerome - a fairly standard set for a Berserker Gerome, although he also gets Tomefaire access and Sage/Dark Knight/Sorc and has a +2 MAG mod [but +5 STR], so he's actually capable of supporting well either physically or magically. He could serve as a hard support to Lucina or to Cynthia and let them pull off physical Aether craziness with Berserker support or magical Aether support as a Sage [they get 47 SPD as a Sage [42+5], so generic pair-up bonuses get them up to 27 SPD; and of course Sniper x Berserker gets to 75. Has Hexathema. (11.) Virion!Yarne: Axe, Bow, and Tome faires, Hit+20, etc. allow for a bunch of varied hard-support options. Great skill as well for accuracy on top of hit skills [or as replacement] and Virion passes down the Wyvern line that Panne doesn't normally give Yarne. He could hard support Cynthia/Lucina as they spam Luna+Aether proc stacks. (12.) Stahl!Laurent: Tome, Axe, Sword, and Bowfaires. Hexathema AND Hit +20 access. He could hard support either Lucina or Cynthia [basically, choose 2 out of three: Laurent, Yarne, and Gerome supporting Cynthia and Lucina as Hard supports that let Cynthia and Lucina spam Luna+Aether from up front all the time] (13.) ????!Nah : At this point, I have Lon'qu, Frederick, Kellam, and Vaike leftover as fathers. Nah will be the unpaired and Galefore-less female, so she's in more of a support role. -----> Lon'qu actually give her positive speed mods and trickster access. This doesn't help her for beign a staff bot in itself, but seeing that she doesn't get a flying staff class it does give her Move +1 and Acrobat so that she gets slightly more movement freedom. No negative mods, although everything is a bland 1-3. For fighting on her own merit, she does get Swordfaire and Tomefaire; not in Apo, of course, but in other maps while training her. ----> Doesn't add much to her support utility and gives her an awful -3 SPD mod, but she does get +2 SKL and Pavgis access for a bit more survivability in non-Apo maths if she ever ends up in a combat situation…. although that -SPD hurts badly… doesn't' sound like a good idea ----> Kellam!Nah: Also gets -3 SPD, but she does get Trickster access (for move move) and Healtouch [with a +2 magic mod}…. she could run around as a Sage with 1. Tomefaire [from Nowi's/Kellam's Sage], 2. Healtouch [from Kellam's Priest-->Cleric], 3. Move+1 [from Kellam's Thief], 4. Acrobat [from Kellam's Trickster] and 5. Pass [from Kellam's Assassin] to get a Sage with High healing capabilities and good movement abilities. With +2 Mag, a Tomefaire Healtouch Sage can heal: 8 [base Fortify] + 5 [Healtouch] +3 [weapon rank] + (46+2+5)/2 [magic after Sag, mod, and Tomefaire, then divided by 2 and rounded down} = 42 HP with Fortify. This means she can get your 85 HP units [80 HP + 5 HP tonic] back to full health with just two Fortifies [such as if she's danced for] even without rallies. In Apo, switch one of the skills, like Pass or Acrobat, for Limit Breaker to get another 10 magic and thus 5 HP healing, and the Rallies and tonics can get another 6 HP… so all in all, she'll be able to heal for 53 HP with a Fortify and and then still have the choice of 2 of Pass/Acrobat/Move+1 after Limit/Tome/Healtouch. [Lon'qu with his Thief allows similar things, except he doesn't give Healtouch; but he makes her faster and gives Swordfaire incase she wants trickster]. ---> Vaike: Great for combat orientation [axes], but not as much for supporting staves. Outside of Apotheosis, she could pair with Tiki or her parents. 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Thor Odinson Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 okay so these are the gen2 pairs I want to do. Morgan x Gerome Kjelle x Laurent Lucina x Yarne Noire x Brady Severa x Inigo Cynthia x Owain The gen1 pairs I decided on so far and am not changing are: MaMU x Sully Chrom x Sumia Gregor x Miriel and I'm also very heavily considering Libra/Maribelle because I really like their supports and they don't seem too bad game-playwise either. How should I set up Noire in this case? I'd assume Gaius!Noire is the way to go since Sully took MaMU anyway, so what class goes well with (probably) Sage!Brady? I want to do Lon'qu x Cherche, but from a gameplay perspective that doesn't seem too good for Gerome, and I'm willing to go either Virion or Henry to make sure Gerome is great. Is Lon'qu x Olivia any good? That's another support I like with him but I'm also willing to let up if they're a poor fit gameplay wise. Same with Fred!Panne, I like the pair but I know of the Virion!Yarne dominance so if Virion is needed elsewhere, would Yarne be okay with him? Also looking at Stahl x Lissa. Entirely undecided for Cordelia. Morgan and Kjelle both must be Axe!Wyvern Lord for my favorite weapon and class, and Laurent's going Berserker for Kjelle, but I'm flexible about everyone else's classes. Nah is unpaired and I'm fine with sandbagging her for some other kid to be good because I don't really like her, so she can take the spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Libra/Maribelle is pretty solid. It's not "optimal" because Brady already has Galeforce, Luna, and Tomefaire, so if he can pick something to get from a father, it's +spd, but Libra!Brady is fine, and helps his magic build. Yeah, Lon'qu/Cherche is perfect aesthetically, but it's not that good mechanically. Wyvern tree overlaps, Gerome doesn't get the faire he wants (you could maybe try Swordfaire Hero, but doesn't sound very effective) and he can't take much advantage of Lon'qu's spd/skl mods. Not nearly as bad as Fred!Gerome though. Both Henry and Virion are much better, with Henry being ideal. I have never tried Lon'qu x Olivia, but it doesn't sound too good. Myrmidon overlaps, and while Inigo could maybe be a fast Wyvern Lord, he doesn't get Luna, the one thing he wants. Yarne really wants Hit+20, but Fred is passable. Stahl!Lissa is good if you like running a hybrid Owain (I know I do!). He's very similar to the optimal Ricken!Owain, but a bit less magic, and a bit more physical. I usually find Stahl and Ricken interchangeable with Olivia and Lissa. For Cordelia, if you're willing to move Lon'qu away from Cherche, he'll be great here. Virion is another option. Both give Severa a big +spd and make her a speed demon Wyvern Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylveonzoroark Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 So.. I have everyone paired except Maribelle. The husbands that are left are Ricken, Kellam, Freddy, and Virion. I was thinking Ricken!Brady but the class overlap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 For Hybrid Owain, would that go well with Dark Flier Cynthia? Or does Chrom!Cynthia prefer something more physically oriented. What's a good pair for physical Inigo? I saw some discussion about Libra!Inigo but I want Libra x Maribelle and Severa definitely prefers her pairup being physical. I'll probably stick to Henry for Gerome or something, then. Hexathema Berserker sounds too good to pass up and I think Gerome can work the white hair, anyway, and the Henry Cherche supports aren't terrible either, even if I prefer Virion and Lon'qu's for her. Which does free up Lon for Severa. I imagine in this case she'd just take Astra as her proc since she doesn't get access to Luna, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylveonzoroark Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'd say Stahl is best for physical Inigo since it gives him Luna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Chrom!Cynthia should be physical yeah. Maybe with innate Tomefaire magic is usable, but I haven't tried. Physical Inigo boils down to Frederick and Stahl. I prefer Stahl, because I feel like Inigo was born to be a Sniper. You could use Kellam has a last ditch attempt to get Luna. Or if you're okay with taking Stahl off of Lissa, he can go here and Lissa can take Ricken. Edited November 1, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Im fine with switching Ricken to Lissa, then. Read their supports and it's more than acceptable for me. Anyway, I have MaMU x Sully Chrom x Sumia Gregor x Miriel Henry x Cherche Libra x Maribelle Virion x Panne Lonqu x Cordelia Gaius x Tharja Ricken x Lissa Stahl x Olivia which leaves Vaike, Kellam, Donnel, and Fred for Nowi. I'm not too fussed about Nah, and I may not even deploy her, but in the event I do, what should I do with her? And for the gen2 class setup So far I'm at AxeWyvern Morgan x Berserker Gerome AxeWyvern Kjelle x Berserker Laurent (????) Lucina x Berserker Yarne(Paladin? Falco?) Cynthia x DreadF(?) Owain (Sniper? Dark Flier?) Noire x Sage Brady (LanceWyvern? Falco?) Severa x (Sniper? Berserker?) Inigo with bolded being definites. Haven't finalized the others, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylveonzoroark Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 which leaves Vaike, Kellam, Donnel, and Fred for Nowi. I'm not too fussed about Nah, and I may not even deploy her, but in the event I do, what should I do with her? Donnel for Galeforce, Vaike for better mods I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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