PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Thor Odinson]

I guess I can put off Nah for later before I decide then.

So.. I have everyone paired except Maribelle. The husbands that are left are Ricken, Kellam, Freddy, and Virion. I was thinking Ricken!Brady but the class overlap...

I mean doesn't Brady have everything he could ever want from Maribelle anyway, just go for mods

Looking at the others classes in comparison anyway
Kellam class overlaps Healer, IDK what he'd want from thief, and the one main draw of Knight is covered by Cav

Fred is Cav (has), Knight (see Cav), and Wyvern, which I'm not sure if Brady wants at all anyway, unless you want to dick around with Deliverer during non-Apo phases since Deliverer is fun and great, but it does kill his speed.

Virion is Archer, Mage (half-covered by priest, so unless you really want Lifetaker or something, but Ricken also has that) and Wyvern (see Fred about Deliverer comment) and is at least fast

Ricken gives similar stuff to Virion and no Deliverer, but a focus on magic instead of speed.

So probably either Ricken or Virion depending on what you value more on Brady and how much you like having +2 movement while doing things that aren't apo

[Radiant head]

Virion is the best option for Brady. Though Ricken is fine; Brady doesn't really care about class overlap.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Radiant head

[Thor Odinson]

the gen1 setup is finalized for the MU x Sully run, but for another run, would

Lonqu x Maribelle

Libra x Panne

Virion x Cordelia work as pairs?

I remembered that Lonqu x Maribelle is another support I liked, and it gives Brady a bunch of speed, so I thought it might be worth to try it out.

Also what are considered good non-gale pairs for Sully? Unfortunately, all 3 of my favorite pairs for her utterly suck postgame (Chrom, Stalh, Fred), so I'm trying to expand my horizons and reread the supports and see if I can find something I like both in writing and in combat.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Radiant head]

Vailke is probably the best out of the non gf pairs.

I mean maybe you could try going for a +spd mod, but without galeforce, she can't take a advantage of that the way Severa and Brady can.

Ultimately Kjelle is the most desperate for a galedad.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Radiant head

[Czar_Yoshi]

(10.) Henry!Gerome - ... and of course Sniper x Berserker gets to 75. Has Hexathema.

Do keep in mind that Hex does nothing when supporting a Sniper. If you want Gerome x Lucina and them to be physical, Lucina will need to be a Paladin.

I'd personally go with Vaike!Nah anyway. That -2 Mag over Kellam translates into a whopping -1 Rescue range (you'll already cover pretty much the entire map), and Healtouch doesn't matter because with or without it two Fortify uses will heal your entire team to max.

and I'm also very heavily considering Libra/Maribelle because I really like their supports and they don't seem too bad game-playwise either. How should I set up Noire in this case? I'd assume Gaius!Noire is the way to go since Sully took MaMU anyway, so what class goes well with (probably) Sage!Brady?

I'd definitely make them into a Sage x Sniper pair.

I want to do Lon'qu x Cherche, but from a gameplay perspective that doesn't seem too good for Gerome, and I'm willing to go either Virion or Henry to make sure Gerome is great. Is Lon'qu x Olivia any good? That's another support I like with him but I'm also willing to let up if they're a poor fit gameplay wise.

No Luna which is a big shame, but Inigo will be very fast and make a nice Axefaire Wyvern, if you want another one.

Same with Fred!Panne, I like the pair but I know of the Virion!Yarne dominance so if Virion is needed elsewhere, would Yarne be okay with him?

Fred!Yarne would be OK, especially if saving Yarne is done for a worthy cause like Severa.

Also looking at Stahl x Lissa.

Very good mixed unit. Consider pairing with Morgan.

Entirely undecided for Cordelia.

Virion?

Edit: whoops, didn't see the last page.

Chrom!Cynthia should be physical yeah. Maybe with innate Tomefaire magic is usable, but I haven't tried.

Physical Inigo boils down to Frederick and Stahl. I prefer Stahl, because I feel like Inigo was born to be a Sniper. You could use Kellam has a last ditch attempt to get Luna. Or if you're okay with taking Stahl off of Lissa, he can go here and Lissa can take Ricken.

Chrom!Cynthia can totally be magical (especially if she has a Grandmaster support, but either way she's good at it). Libra!Inigo is also notably good at being physical.

Also what are considered good non-gale pairs for Sully? Unfortunately, all 3 of my favorite pairs for her utterly suck postgame (Chrom, Stalh, Fred), so I'm trying to expand my horizons and reread the supports and see if I can find something I like both in writing and in combat.

Kjelle unfortunately already has everything except GF, meaning there's not much non-Galedads can give her to set themselves apart. Virion might be interesting, since he gives her a fast Sniper, but she'll really just be Gaius!Kjelle or Chrom!Cynthia without GF. Lon'qu as well, but he doesn't even give Sniper so he's flat-out redundant with Gaius. You could also try Vaike, who can give somewhat nice Str and Hero/BK as new classes, but that's also pretty much directly inferior to Vaike!Severa. You could try Ricken (or also Virion) to give her Tomefaire, but female Sages aren't usually impressive and she'll again be eclipsed by Chrom!Cynthia and all the Troubadour dads don't give Tomefaire. Speaking of them, Gregor and Henry could let her be an Axefaire War Cleric which not many others can do, but it's also pretty bad so not a good thing to have a niche in.

Long story short, without Galeforce Kjelle just can't find a way to make herself special. It's a shame, but it's how it is- partly because she has so much stuff from her mother that only the one thing she doesn't have can make a difference, and partly because Awakening is absurdly biased toward girls so competition for a role is extremely steep. All in all Vaike and Virion are probably still her best bets, but don't expect either of them to be special.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[astrophys]

Why does Lucina need to be a Paladin if with Gerome? Sniper is 45 Speed after the mod, after all…. 22 after rally/tonics, 8 from pair-up; that's a 75 SPD sniper. Or if using Bow Knight (for mobility at the cost of other stats and Longbows) that' 76 SPD.

Granted, only Anathema is actually having an effect [which means I have a skill for something else].

Or I could just make them Sages….. they do have that as an option, after all…

[Mujuju]

For Hybrid Owain, would that go well with Dark Flier Cynthia? Or does Chrom!Cynthia prefer something more physically oriented.

What's a good pair for physical Inigo? I saw some discussion about Libra!Inigo but I want Libra x Maribelle and Severa definitely prefers her pairup being physical.

I'll probably stick to Henry for Gerome or something, then. Hexathema Berserker sounds too good to pass up and I think Gerome can work the white hair, anyway, and the Henry Cherche supports aren't terrible either, even if I prefer Virion and Lon'qu's for her.

Which does free up Lon for Severa. I imagine in this case she'd just take Astra as her proc since she doesn't get access to Luna, then?

Dunno if you used Vaike already, but he gives access to Luna as well as great mods.

[Thor Odinson]

I did not use Vaike, actually.

I'll have to reconsider my non-set pairs again sometimes.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Why does Lucina need to be a Paladin if with Gerome?

Specifically, she can't be a Sniper and still get Gerome his Hex boost, and why use Henry!Gerome if not for his +Hit skills? Sniper and Paladin are Lucina's main physical options, so if Sniper's out, Paladin remains.

Dunno if you used Vaike already, but he gives access to Luna as well as great mods.

Only for females, though.

[astrophys]

Anyways, I've got basically three support set-ups due to Virion!Yarne, Stahl!Laurent, and Henry!Gerome on the list, so I don't really need to go Gerome…. at the cost of 4 STR [2 damage an attack from the rear], I could stick her with Laurent, for example, who can run Hit +20 and Anathema

Let's see…. Berserker Laurent [with Stahl he actually has more STR as a Berserker than MAG as a Sage, largely due to the larger base 50 STR on Berserker before mods vs. 46 on Sage]…..

51 ATK

+1 from weapon rank

+ 5 from Forge

+ 5 from Axefaire [1 skill used]

+12 from Brave Axe

+10 from Limit Breaker [2 skills used]

+10 from Rallies

+2 from tonic

= 96 ATK ---> this is enough to deal 19 damage per hit to Anna; 14 damage per hit to the Throne Berserkers. 14 x 8 = 112.

Skills:

1. Limit Breaker

2. Axefaire

3. Hit +20

4. Anathema

5. Aggressor [optional, for even more overkill]

[Czar_Yoshi]

12HKOes on Anna and Thronie are pretty easy to come by, guaranteed 6HKOes are where it's at (Longbow + Brave for Anna, Brave + Brave for Thronie).

[Ebony]

Hey, happy birthday!

I should probably elaborate a little on why I'm not having a ball with Vaike!Yarne: it's not about Apo (he's really great there), it's every other map. I like to play the rest of the postgame maps without all the big Apo preparations (no Rallies, no Staffbots, no tonics/forges and some skills switched out for fun things like Deliverer, Despoil, AT and +Mov/Crit skills). Doing that, Yarne really has no alternate class options- he's more or less stuck as a Hero, and it gets boring after a while.

That probably should be important to you because it's pretty underwhelming to invest dozens of hours in planning and creating a full 16 pair Apo team, spend an hour or two beating the map, and then being done with everything, but if it's not, then Yarne will take Vaike just fine.

Alright then. I'm still going to be thinking though...

Lon'qu x Tharja is one I'm still debating, either that or Fred x Tharja...

Edit: and thanks for the birthdays you two :3

Edited November 2, 2015 by Ebony

[Radiant head]

Have some questions about Lon'qu!Severa.

Since she doesn't have Luna, should she be running Astra or Vengeance for a proc? Is Axebreaker a good idea if she's running the Lancefaire Wyvern Lord/Dark Flier? And finally, what class should MU!Owain be in if I want to pair them?

Edited November 2, 2015 by Radiant head

[astrophys]

Assuming exploiting the various DLC skills, would +MAG be a better choice for Avatar!Severa/Cordelia!Morgan than +SPD (both with -DEF) for a Valkyrie Morgan?

The reason that +SPD has been tossed around as a suggestion is of course that it lets you hit 75 SPD on neutral pair-up without using a skill to help you do it….

But considering the builds I was contemplating:

+SPD

1. Galeforce

2. Limit Breaker

3. Proc Skill

4. 2nd Proc Skill OR Convenience Armsthrift

5. Tomefaire

vs.

+MAG

1. Galeforce

2. Limit Breaker

3. Proc Skill

4. 2nd Proc Skill OR Convenience Armsthrift

5. All Stats+2 [spd +2 also works]

Even though we give up Tomefaire on the +MAG, we can still end up with more MAG while hitting our benchmark SPD with All Stats +2, as +4 more magic from mods and +2 mag from All Stats+2 gives us a total of +6 magic to work with, while Tomefaire in the +SPD build was giving us +5 magic to work with.

Even if we don't use All Stats+2 for some arbitrary reason and use the lesser SPD +2, we're only 1 magic below the Tomefaire +SPD version…

42 magic valkyrie

+10 Limit Breaker

+10 Rallies
+2 tonic

+9 Sage pair-up

+2 weapon rank bonus
+4 Celicia's Gale

+5 Forge

+5 Tomefaire

= 89 magical ATK

42 magic valkyrie

+4 mod

+10 Limit Breaker

+10 Rallies
+2 tonic

+9 Sage pair-up

+2 weapon rank bonus
+4 Celicia's Gale

+5 Forge

+0 NO Tomefaire

= 88 magical ATK

Anna and the Berserkers have 55 DEF + 3 effective extra defense from Thrones [when on the throne], so 58. Dragonskin causes round-downs. 89 ATK - 58 DEF = 31 ----> 15.5 --> 15 with dragonskin vs. Anna. Also, 88 ATK - 58 DEF = 30 ---> 15 ---> 15 vs. Anna. So against these opponents, 89 ATK and 88 Attaack are the same.

And of course, you could remove the Convenience Armsthrift or 2nd Proc for Tomefaire if you wanted to, although this would be questionable as proc stacking can increase the odds of killing powerful targets [each proc adds more damage than a Tomefaire would be a good amount].

So perhaps I should go +MAG instead [i'm only a few hours into the file, so early that restarting would be no big problem… it also would let Avatar do more magical dual strike damage as Cordelia's pair-up]?

[Ebony]

Have some questions about Lon'qu!Severa.

Since she doesn't have Luna, should she be running Astra or Vengeance for a proc? Is Axebreaker a good idea if she's running the Lancefaire Wyvern Lord/Dark Flier? And finally, what class should MU!Owain be in if I want to pair them?

I have no idea, but MU!Owain (from my experience) does excellent as a Grandmaster.

Also, rethinking my pairings... yet again. I think I've got em nailed down this time though, thankfully. Any ideas for ending classes or at least skill pass downs?

Chrom x Olivia

FeMu x Priam

Gaius x Sully

Gregor x Miriel

Sumia x Henry

Tharja x Lon'qu

Cherche x Stahl

Cordelia x Virion

Lissa x Ricken

Maribelle x Libra

Nowi x Donnel

Panne x Vaike

[Radiant head]

Lucina -> Paladin/Great Lord

Morgan -> Depends on FeMU's asset/skl. I'm partial to Hero.

Kjelle -> Wyvern Lord/Paladin.

Laurent -> No idea

Cynthia -> Dark Flier.

Noire -> Wyvern Lord/Assassin

Gerome -> Warrior

Severa -> Wyvern Lord/Dark Flier

Owain -> Sage, though I like doing Swordfaire Dread Fighter for outside Apo.

Brady -> Sage

Nah -> No idea

Yarne -> Berserker

[Ebony]

Lucina -> Paladin/Great Lord

Morgan -> Depends on FeMU's asset/skl. I'm partial to Hero.

Kjelle -> Wyvern Lord/Paladin.

Laurent -> No idea

Cynthia -> Dark Flier.

Noire -> Wyvern Lord/Assassin

Gerome -> Warrior

Severa -> Wyvern Lord/Dark Flier

Owain -> Sage, though I like doing Swordfaire Dread Fighter for outside Apo.

Brady -> Sage

Nah -> No idea

Yarne -> Berserker

Oop, sorry. It'd most likely be +Spd -Def... it's the most fitting for me anyway... lmao~

As for Nah, I'm gonna be keeping her a Manakete, and I'll most likely make Owain a Dread Fighter after Apo.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

FeMu x Priam

Yes! YES! YYYEEESSS!!!

Also for Tharja x Lon'qu, I don't think Noire would really benefit with high speed, since she doesn't get Galeforce....

[Radiant head]

That's what I was thinking, though I've seen it endorsed for 75 spd Wyvern Lord.

In general I find Noire the most frustrating to pair, because Kjelle chooses between Gaius/Donnel, and Nah has no trouble making do without GF. MaMU would work, except Tharja is a bad pair up partner for him in post-game.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Radiant head

[Czar_Yoshi]

Have some questions about Lon'qu!Severa.

Since she doesn't have Luna, should she be running Astra or Vengeance for a proc? Is Axebreaker a good idea if she's running the Lancefaire Wyvern Lord/Dark Flier? And finally, what class should MU!Owain be in if I want to pair them?

Solitary Astra isn't reliable, she'll want Vengeance. She doesn't have room for Axebreaker; she'll be running LB/GF/LF/Vengeance/All+2. If you're concerned about her Hit, get her a hard support with Hex/Anathema. Owain will want to be in a 2+ Spd class (GM, Paladin, Berserker, BK, Hero). Berserker is a little iffy on the Hit and more or less forces him to use Vengeance when up front, but most of the others should be fine- GM and Paladin give +Str, GM has a good Ignis, BK gives +Mov.

Assuming exploiting the various DLC skills, would +MAG be a better choice for Avatar!Severa/Cordelia!Morgan than +SPD (both with -DEF) for a Valkyrie Morgan?

+Mag and All+2 is indeed strictly better for Valkyries than +Spd/Tomefaire. The main reason you'd want to use +Spd is if you plan on running one of them as a Wyvern (it's also a good asset ingame, and makes building the team on Lunatic+ much easier if you care about showing off).

Also for Tharja x Lon'qu, I don't think Noire would really benefit with high speed, since she doesn't get Galeforce....

Some GF-less girls work out as non-GF leads. The idea is that you marry them to a Galeboy with a conventional set, have him take the first kill, use GF, and then switch to the girl for the second kill. Doing that has a few notable advantages, mainly allowing girls who have limited or no good options with GF (read: Nah and Noire) to fill a much broader set of roles than the meta would otherwise allow. Additionally, having a free skillslot that would normally be filled with GF frequently allows completely unconventional strategies, such as critstacking Nah. Bringing the girl to the front for the last kill also gives you an extra turn of Agg support, something that all double Galepairs should be doing anyway.

In Noire's case, Lon'qu's Spd allows her to be in the same Wyvern Spd bracket as Gaius!Kjelle and Severa, but since she has an extra skillslot she can run All+2, Lancefaire and a Luna/Astra procstack at the same time, giving her a significantly higher average damage output than the others without losing Spd. She does run into the problem of having to choose between a GF Berserker husband (no +Hit, and he may risk dropping kills) and no +Str on pairup (plus a much lower support Str cap) which mitigates her damage output by quite a lot, but overall it's a good use of Noire and not something that could be done by her with GF.

[Byleth]

In Noire's case, Lon'qu's Spd allows her to be in the same Wyvern Spd bracket as Gaius!Kjelle and Severa, but since she has an extra skillslot she can run All+2, Lancefaire and a Luna/Astra procstack at the same time, giving her a significantly higher average damage output than the others without losing Spd. She does run into the problem of having to choose between a GF Berserker husband (no +Hit, and he may risk dropping kills) and no +Str on pairup (plus a much lower support Str cap) which mitigates her damage output by quite a lot, but overall it's a good use of Noire and not something that could be done by her with GF.

but Noire can't learn Lancefaire if she is fathered by Lon'qu..

[TheSilentChloey]

but Noire can't learn Lancefaire if she is fathered by Lon'qu..

True, but it all depends on the strategy that you are using. She doesn't learn Lancefaire from Henry either, but I like her to have a bit more mag (and why not take advantage of Tharja's mag mod?) and make her some sort of mnagic user (either a sorcerer or a valkyrie either would work by my guess)

I would like to think that Lon'qu!Noire would be a more physical unit with options that doesn't (as far as I know) take advantage of Tharja's mag...as far as I know anyway.

Any helpful strategies for Donnel!Nah?

[Radiant head]

I have a Donnel!Nah, but not even sure what to do with her. The problem is she can't make much use of GF because of no offensive procs and bad caps. It should be fun to steamroll in-game, but will probably bench for Apo.

Kind of wish I went with Vaike...Deliverer can replace GF, and she gets Luna.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Radiant head

[Czar_Yoshi]

but Noire can't learn Lancefaire if she is fathered by Lon'qu..

You know, in all the months I've been talking about non-GF Noire, you're the first to notice that. Even Alastor, in his many, many attempts to convince me that Gaius!Noire is the one true Noire, did not point out that Lon'qu!Noire lacks a Faire.

Shame on everyone else for not listening to what I say. This thread is mainly about theorycrafting, so checking others' work is important.

That said, her Spd probably still has uses- a quick look indicates that her GK, using LB/SF/Luna/Astra/All+2, can take a +0 support and hit 69 Spd perfectly. That's probably limited in its application, though, because even the fastest Sniper Inigo can't hit 69 with a +0 support and no All+2...

She can also stick with Wyvern and just run Hex over Lancefaire. That lets her take a Berserker husband much more easily to keep her damage up.

Any helpful strategies for Donnel!Nah?

There aren't that many good ones, she's pretty bad. You could try running Tomefaire Valkyrie- unpaired with LB, she can double capped Assassins and Swordmasters, I guess. She's got Deliverer to help get around, so make sure to use that. She also gets 100% AT with no boosts whatsoever, which could be very nice depending on your situation.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Rizziah]

Shame on everyone else for not listening to what I say. This thread is mainly about theorycrafting, so checking others' work is important.

Lonqu!Noire has Swordfaire.

Helping~