PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Czar_Yoshi]

We call that guy the Nightmare Sniper for a reason. It's actually impossible to survive a round of combat with him with 100% accuracy without either luring him to the Throne (I think a Fort will work too, don't remember), getting a Barracks Boost, or having enough Avo to reduce him to 0 listed Hit (that's 254 Avo, which is a -lot-).

Anyway, what Avatar wants in a wife is Galeforce and either Luna or Vengeance (basically, they need to be able to lead well, since all he wants to do is support- he's very good at it). Most non-Nah 2nd gen units can do that well, but the only 1st gen units who have what it takes are Sumia, Cordelia, and Aversa- one of whom is happily on your list. I'd advise running her as a Dark Flier with LB/GF/Veng/Lifetaker/Shadowgift, and Avatar as a Sage or Grandmaster with LB/Agg/TF/All+2/Anathema.

FYI, Awakening is a fairly new game- early 2013 in the 'States- and the metagame is still changing at a decent pace. In a thread this old, you're going to see some very outdated advice if you dig back too far- I wouldn't advise going back any further than ~July (around the time when the Awakening trailer for SSB4 came out, I made some fairly large posts summarizing the metagame up to that time. You won't get anything that's not in those by going further back, and they're still decently current).

[Rydia]

Thank you, Czar!

Also, Uh, I remember that sniper, it was my nightmare indeed when I saw him the first time. I think I survived thanks to Noire having a forged long bow, Owain covering her when needed and lots of luck.

[Alastor15243]

We call that guy the Nightmare Sniper for a reason. It's actually impossible to survive a round of combat with him with 100% accuracy without either luring him to the Throne (I think a Fort will work too, don't remember), getting a Barracks Boost, or having enough Avo to reduce him to 0 listed Hit (that's 254 Avo, which is a -lot-).

You forgot the other two ways you mentioned: Having +Skill Chrom!Inigo/Brady!Morgan do a 100% Aegis trick, or having a +Luck Chrom!Brady!Morgan perform a 100% Miracle trick.

[Ownagepuffs]

The one thing I disagree with Ownagepuff is Gregor's godliness with Miriel. Gregor!Laurent is fine and dandy, but unless you're going for a niche 100% Assassin build, I don't see the appeal; he's certainly not god tier. Armsthrift is mainly for grinding utility, and Vantage-Vengeance Sage is something that is run better by someone like Owain, who has Galeforce & inherent Vantage already, alongside a low-priority father in Libra. If Gregor!Laurent is god tier just for Vantage, then surely someone like Libra!Owain is even above that for Galeforce+Vantage+Vengeance.

If you want Laurent as a dedicated Sage support, Libra is fine (it's who I'm running in my current Apo team). Gregor offers nothing for a support Sage Laurent, so the +Mag mod ends up being more useful.

>using a galeboy for V/V. Why.

>using Laurent as hard support. Why.

Galeforce is irrelevant to V/V. Only the wife, often Lucina, needs to have it.

I'm talking in game and post game, Gregor!Laurent has it all. Easy access to Sorc, a reasonable recruitment chapter, Armsthrift Mire, Ruinator build. This all only matters for Lunatic+ and Apotheosis but w/e. Gregor!Laurent is amazing in basically every part of the game.

[burgerkong]

>using a galeboy for V/V. Why.

>using Laurent as hard support. Why.

Galeforce is irrelevant to V/V. Only the wife, often Lucina, needs to have it.

I'm talking in game and post game, Gregor!Laurent has it all. Easy access to Sorc, a reasonable recruitment chapter, Armsthrift Mire, Ruinator build. This all only matters for Lunatic+ and Apotheosis but w/e. Gregor!Laurent is amazing in basically every part of the game.

I was talking solely about Apotheosis though, since Raagentreg mentioned that he had grinded Avatar to obscene levels already and was just doing L+ for the prestige of completing it. He had only elaborated that after your post though, so that was my mistake.

Regarding Laurent's role in Apotheosis, now I'm confused. Many teams I've seen has Laurent on hard support (Sniper-Sage builds, etc.), so I'm kind of confused as to why you're so against using Laurent as hard support. Laurent is the only magically-inclined unit without Galeforce, so having him hard support like Yarne & Gerome doesn't seem wrong.

Additionally, I was just stating that if Laurent is god-tier for VV, then wouldn't VV+Galeforce just be icing on the cake? VV allows you to wreck Enemy Phase, but Galeforce allows you more flexibility on Player Phase (like this).

With a fully stacked Apotheosis team, waves are going to be going down fairly quickly, so there's usually not a lot of Enemy Phase action to be had. If you're short on APT and need to get those kills quickly for the latter S.route Waves, then VV might be necessary to clear enemies in time during EP. Otherwise though, it's a massive time sink and somewhat inconsistent due to the potential DG+ from your partner messing up your carefully-planned calculations. A Fortify from a Staffbot will also mess with your calculations too.

[Diabeasty]

I don't see very many people actually discuss using VV, so it doesn't seem like a particularly popular strategy. It's probably because it requires a fair amount of setup to make it work.

Gregor!Laurent is mostly good because it gives Laurent way more options to work with than any other father not named Lon'Qu. Pretty much every other father just has Laurent locked to hard support, Gregor actually gives him the ability to run other sets. It's also pretty convenient since Gregor is low demand. If you want a better hard support Laurent, Ricken is probably his best father (hit+20, huge overkill MAG) but he doesn't really need anything to actually work in that role, he gets all of it from his mother. You could even use someone like Kellam!Laurent and he'd function exactly the same as a hard support.

Also Libra!Inigo is basically Gregor!Laurent -1 MAG and SKL with Galeforce.

[Czar_Yoshi]

A Ricken!Laurent@Sage (LB/Agg/TF/All+2/Mag+2) supporting with a 5/15 CG has 46(base) +6(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +10(Agg) +2(All+2) +2(Mag+2) +2(tonic) +11(Celica's) =99 Atk. That's 20 damage DSes against Thronie and Anna, 26 against NS, and 17 against Invincisorc, and that's pretty good. While Laurent may be able to do VV, he can make himself plenty useful without it too.

And for what it's worth, Gregor!Laurent has a +1 Str mod and a Hex+Berserker combo. On my 100% DS team, I've got him with Virion!Severa, ready to switch between physical (75 Spd Wyvern) and magical (Sage+DF) at the drop of a hat when not in 100% mode.

I don't see very many people actually discuss using VV, so it doesn't seem like a particularly popular strategy.

That might have something to do with me not liking it and thus rarely/never recommending it. No Holds Barred, it's not worth the trouble of setting up and getting around the DG given how many options you already have for dealing with stuff, and during challenge runs by the time you actually need it, you've cut out so much that you can't get the 100% DS required to make it useful. Vengeance is still great for killing bosses in challenge runs, but Vantage isn't a prerequisite there.

[Alastor15243]

Hey Czar, if I'm going for trickster in one of my no-brave runs for the levin sword capacity to take down high-def units with aegis, is Kellam a good dad for Owain (provides both trickster and luna and a non-negative magic mod), or should I try to make somebody else be a trickster?

Also, I'm aware that Henry!Owain can be a trickster and has better spd and mag, but I still can't manage to get vengeance to work properly in apotheosis because of damned dual guards, so I'm thinking of trying a luna trickster instead.

[Czar_Yoshi]

If a Luna Trickster is what you want, try Lon'qu!Brady.

[Alastor15243]

If a Luna Trickster is what you want, try Lon'qu!Brady.

OOH! That sounds MUCH better! Thanks!

Edit: ...Crap, I just realized, I use Lon'qu a LOT for +Skill-Def!Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan, and since I think my next attempt is going to be no brave AND no pairup, having two units capable of reaching (exactly) 75 speed unpaired is probably going to be obscenely important, so I figure I'll do that. Of course, Lon'qu!Yarne only has Astra for procs, but I figure if I make him a swordmaster instead of an assassin, he could use the Sol Katti for a critical rate that can substitute for a proc.

Another option is Gaius!Noire, who'll have a +4 speed mod and a +3 mag mod (exactly the same as Lon'qu!Brady I believe) and who will have thief, Luna AND Astra. Though that's minus one sniper, and I'll probably want at least three of those I'm guessing, but then, I have Robin, Lucina and Cynthia for that.

...Yeah, Gaius!Noire sounds like my best Trickster option. Any advice? I do remember you recommending trickster for levin sword use in light of my particular playstyle. Does removing pairup change that at all?

Edited November 30, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

Well, no pairup means no DG, which means you'll have significantly better luck with Vengeance.

75 Spd is still nice, but going for it won't even make a difference if you don't have enough Atk to ORKO your target (which you likely won't, on NS). I'd advise simply ganging up on him with Sages. For Anna, either look into a dodgetank or bring lots of Longbows (Vantage could also come in handy here). 66 is the real Spd threshold here.

[Alastor15243]

Just to clarify, while I'm not using pairup, I'm still allowed to have units fight adjacent to each other, so with proper strategy I can still have chains of ORKOs for most mooks. I figure I'd have the normally hard-supporting units tasked with making the first attacks, and then having the galeforcers attack enemies adjacent to them, and then keep building on.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Alastor15243]

I'm going to hold off on no-pairup for the time being and try out a new apotheosis team.

I've gotten a good grasp of who my star players are, and I want to make sure none of them are paired up together, so that they can each get the maximum number of attack rounds they can get. Namely:

Lucina

Cynthia

Morgan

I'm planning on using Stahl!Nah with Morgan, and I've planned out her loadout as a sniper (for 100% DS rate with Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan) as LB, AS+2, STR+2, and Bowfaire. I'm at a loss for the fifth skill, any suggestions?

[Czar_Yoshi]

If you use Vantage and get it set up right, you might be able to use her as a lead to sweep the Snipers assuming Morgan is strong enough to kill NS, you still have 100% DS with her up front and you have a backup plan to get out if a DG messes up your plans. Alternately, run Luna (and possibly Astra) for better Longbow pokes.

[Alastor15243]

If you use Vantage and get it set up right, you might be able to use her as a lead to sweep the Snipers assuming Morgan is strong enough to kill NS, you still have 100% DS with her up front and you have a backup plan to get out if a DG messes up your plans. Alternately, run Luna (and possibly Astra) for better Longbow pokes.

Yeah, I figure I'll go with the luna one. I guess since she's going sniper I might as well make use of the longbow functionality. Shame there isn't a good 5th hard support skill for girls.

[Alastor15243]

Hey, who would be a good partner for Gaius!Noire @ Trickster? Sorry for the double post, but it's been a day or two since the last post in this thread so I figured an edit would go totally unnoticed.

I'm assuming that she doesn't need any more speed from her partner, since all of the people she's effective against are at or below a speed threshold she can reach even without pairup?

Edited December 3, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

If Spd isn't a concern, you could try Sage Laurent for maximum power. I'd advise against pairing her with a Galeboy because Tricksters have incredibly weak DSes and he'll have a hard time getting KOes.

[Alastor15243]

What are the best solutions to having a physical and magical unit left to be paired? How do they best work together as a team? I know Dread Fighter X Bride and Sniper X Sage, are there any other options?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Depends on whether it's magical girl x physical boy, or magical boy x physical girl. If the magical unit is primarily leading, Hero is a great option for support. Grandmasters are rare, but can work well in either slot. If the magical unit is going to find itself in a support slot often, make sure to be in a +Spd class like DF or Valkyrie. Bride goes well with just about anything if the boy is magical.

[Raftina]

What are the best solutions to having a physical and magical unit left to be paired? How do they best work together as a team? I know Dread Fighter X Bride and Sniper X Sage, are there any other options?

Your pairing strategy is the same regardless of whether you are using cross attack type or same attack type: You maximize dual strike chance and support position's raw attack power. This is because the damage increase from the str/mag bonus of a matching attack type is puny compared to the damage increase from str/mag caps of the support class.

For example, a dread fighter is much better paired with an assassin than a bride. A dark flier is (almost always) much better paired with a general than a dread fighter. A sniper+sage is good, but that is because the sniper's high skl and skl pairup is good with anyone.

You match attack type because it's easier to take advantage of different def/res values, not because of the negligible difference in str/mag.

[burgerkong]

Your pairing strategy is the same regardless of whether you are using cross attack type or same attack type: You maximize dual strike chance and support position's raw attack power. This is because the damage increase from the str/mag bonus of a matching attack type is puny compared to the damage increase from str/mag caps of the support class.

For example, a dread fighter is much better paired with an assassin than a bride. A dark flier is (almost always) much better paired with a general than a dread fighter. A sniper+sage is good, but that is because the sniper's high skl and skl pairup is good with anyone.

You match attack type because it's easier to take advantage of different def/res values, not because of the negligible difference in str/mag.

Erm, that's not strictly true.

Enemy Def is definitely higher on average compared to enemy Res, hence why having a magical support is great (hitting enemies' lower defensive stat while avoiding Aegis+). Dark Flier & Dread Fighter is a better pairing IMO, it also allows Dark Flier to hit potential Speed benchmarks and makes for a great Galepair.

Sniper x Sage is mostly notable for Sniper in the front all the time, so usually the Sage will be a dedicated support sage (cough*Avatar/Laurent*cough) since Sniper's dual strike damage is pretty poopy due to low Str cap.

As for why you pair Physical x Physical and Magical x Magical, it's because while the bonus is negligible, it's honestly better than nothing, and can be crucial to getting some benchmark kills by the skin of your teeth.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Your pairing strategy is the same regardless of whether you are using cross attack type or same attack type: You maximize dual strike chance and support position's raw attack power. This is because the damage increase from the str/mag bonus of a matching attack type is puny compared to the damage increase from str/mag caps of the support class.

For example, a dread fighter is much better paired with an assassin than a bride. A dark flier is (almost always) much better paired with a general than a dread fighter. A sniper+sage is good, but that is because the sniper's high skl and skl pairup is good with anyone.

You match attack type because it's easier to take advantage of different def/res values, not because of the negligible difference in str/mag.

There's no such thing as a negligible difference in Awakening. Some differences are bigger than others, but everything matters (except, of course, secondary Atk stats on some units). The +Atk bonus from pairing up, however, is definitely not even close to the bottom of the list.

Bride x DF is good because in lower deployment runs it gives the most options in the game for bypassing PavGis and different Def/Res values. Its strong point isn't in ts damage output (though it still won't have trouble getting KOs on No Holds Barred- nothing does), but in its flexibility. That the Atk pairup boosts happen to match up is just icing on the cake.

Sniper x Sage is good because it gives you 3 range magical DSes. Those are very valuable for killing a number of high profile targets who tend to be dangerous to face close up and have both much higher Def than Res and Aegis+.

[Shadow Mir]

>using a galeboy for V/V. Why.

>using Laurent as hard support. Why.

Galeforce is irrelevant to V/V. Only the wife, often Lucina, needs to have it.

I'm talking in game and post game, Gregor!Laurent has it all. Easy access to Sorc, a reasonable recruitment chapter, Armsthrift Mire, Ruinator build. This all only matters for Lunatic+ and Apotheosis but w/e. Gregor!Laurent is amazing in basically every part of the game.

Not disagreeing, but what's so great about (and what IS) this "Ruinator" setup?? I always thought a forged Katarina's was better than a forged Ruin.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[Czar_Yoshi]

Haven't heard the name Ruinator before, but it's possible he's referring to my 155 crit VV setup for S.Apo that has a guaranteed OHKO on anything in the map with 55 Lck and no Aegis+.

Forged Katarina's are very nice, especially ingame, but for this build the +5 crit from Ruin (or Wilderwind, but that has 5 uses and is Streetpass only, and there's no room for AT) matters a lot for this setup.

[Shadow Mir]

Haven't heard the name Ruinator before, but it's possible he's referring to my 155 crit VV setup for S.Apo that has a guaranteed OHKO on anything in the map with 55 Lck and no Aegis+.

Forged Katarina's are very nice, especially ingame, but for this build the +5 crit from Ruin (or Wilderwind, but that has 5 uses and is Streetpass only, and there's no room for AT) matters a lot for this setup.

I see. I thought you hated Sorcerers though (not to mention not exactly being fond of Vantage/Vengeance)...

Edited December 5, 2014 by Levant Caprice