Phantom037 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 basically, I want to find out which one you consider to be more morally questionable, Pelleas or Zelgius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 i vote septimus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilla Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Neither of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookofholsety Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) Pugo how is this even up for debate wait i just realised he's legitimately an asshole JOKE RUINED everyone go home Edited August 24, 2013 by bookofholsety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) Oh, I wouldn't quite say that. I find the question somewhat interesting. Sure, the script doesn't want us to dislike either one. But for my part, I have little sympathy for Zelgius. He murdered his mentor and threatened the live of both of his kids. And the rest of the mercenaries didn't exactly take it well either. Shinon and Gatrie left immediately, for starters. He casually ruins the lives of so many people... All all of that just to feel the thrill of a fight that forces him to his limits. Honestly, if you even get someone like Mist to say "I'll kill you!", you should know that you've gone too far. This guy's priorities are epically messed up. Pelleas on the other hand didn't do a bad thing ever. His actions in part 3 where for the sake of the people under his authority. It is his responsible to keep his people save at all costs. You can definitly blame him for his stupidity. But he always tried to fulfill his responsibilities to his people to the best of his abilities. Edited August 24, 2013 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Oh, I wouldn't quite say that. I find the question somewhat interesting. Sure, the script doesn't want us to dislike either one. But for my part, I have little sympathy for Zelgius. He murdered his mentor and threatened the live of both of his kids. And the rest of the mercenaries didn't exactly take it well either. Shinon and Gatrie left immediately, for starters. He casually ruins the lives of so many people... All all of that just to feel the thrill of a fight that forces him to his limits. Honestly, if you even get someone like Mist to say "I'll kill you!", you should know that you've gone too far. This guy's priorities are epically messed up. Pelleas on the other hand didn't do a bad thing ever. His actions in part 3 where for the sake of the people under his authority. It is his responsible to keep his people save at all costs. You can definitly blame him for his stupidity. But he always tried to fulfill his responsibilities to his people to the best of his abilities. This would be my reasoning as well, not to mention Zelgius was probably fully aware of his masters plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Lightning Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Oh, I wouldn't quite say that. I find the question somewhat interesting. Sure, the script doesn't want us to dislike either one. But for my part, I have little sympathy for Zelgius. He murdered his mentor and threatened the live of both of his kids. And the rest of the mercenaries didn't exactly take it well either. Shinon and Gatrie left immediately, for starters. He casually ruins the lives of so many people... All all of that just to feel the thrill of a fight that forces him to his limits. Honestly, if you even get someone like Mist to say "I'll kill you!", you should know that you've gone too far. This guy's priorities are epically messed up. Pelleas on the other hand didn't do a bad thing ever. His actions in part 3 where for the sake of the people under his authority. It is his responsible to keep his people save at all costs. You can definitly blame him for his stupidity. But he always tried to fulfill his responsibilities to his people to the best of his abilities. Completely seconded this. Even after all the explanations, I never understood why this apparently honorable person who worshiped their mentor would go and not only kill them to get thrill gratification, but also threaten his innocent children for no reason. Sephiran even said it was never part of the plan. Pelleas at least acted with others in mind, while Zelgius was only out for himself. He's a cool and interesting character, don't get me wrong, but I never liked the script's attempt to 'White Knight' him at the end. Please pardon the pun.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 As much as I'd like to give Pelleas credit for acting in the interests of others, I just can't bring myself to overlook the fact that he thought IZUKA was trustworthy. The same Izuka that, to anyone who'd finished PoR, would come off as twisted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) This would be my reasoning as well, not to mention Zelgius was probably fully aware of his masters plan. Personally I don't even feel like holding Lehran's plan against him. It is at least understandable that someone would believe that killing everyone is the only way for the people of Telius find salvation. That way no one would have to suffer anymore. It could be considered merciful. Though, I wish we would have heard what Zelgius thinks about that issue... I focused on the thing with Greil simply because I don't see how these actions could be defended at all. He killed people and ruined lives just because of his own ego. As much as I'd like to give Pelleas credit for acting in the interests of others, I just can't bring myself to overlook the fact that he thought IZUKA was trustworthy. The same Izuka that, to anyone who'd finished PoR, would come off as twisted. Don't forget that he was stupid enough to believe that contract signed with blood was normal. In the extended script, Lekain even notes how stupid that is, Lekain: Would an ordinary loan contract really require a signature in blood? Did you truly not suspect a thing? Edited August 24, 2013 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 How do u know in wasn't ashnard who had bk kill Greil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) I never played their games, but won't Micaiah vs Pelleas be better matchup in this context? inb4marysue Edited August 24, 2013 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) How do u know in wasn't ashnard who had bk kill Greil? Because Sephiran said that Greil's death was the result of Zelgius' own goals. And given how close the two are, I am pretty sure Lehran would know if someone else ordered him to do it. Not to mention that the phrasing implies that the Black Knight wasn't even following Ashnard's orders at the time. Which would make sense, since it was Petrine who was ordered to chase the mercs. Sephiran: Sir Ike, I'm afraid your father's death was an unfortunate result of Zelgius's own personal agenda. I did not order Sir Gawain killed. However, I must admit that I did ask him to seize the medallion and hand it over to King Ashnard. Edited August 24, 2013 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) *Looks at the poll results* Looks like some people don't understand the question (then again, this is a pretty dumb question in the first place). Don't forget that he was stupid enough to believe that contract signed with blood was normal. I'd say that naïve would be a better word than stupid. After all, he's not used to being in charge of an entire nation and it's people. Edited August 24, 2013 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Pelleas, since he didn't kill a Ike's dad for the hell of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 ^ How does that work, SB? Zelgius. Pelleas always had his nation in mind. In fact, I dont think he ever did anything wrong other than trusting Izuka and just being naive in general. BK on the other hand...yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 I'd say that naïve would be a better word than stupid. After all, he's not used to being in charge of an entire nation and it's people. \Zelgius. Pelleas always had his nation in mind. In fact, I dont think he ever did anything wrong other than trusting Izuka and just being naive in general. BK on the other hand...yeah. Either way, being naïve is one thing. Trusting Izuka... that's falling in "What An Idiot" territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Idiot =/= Evil though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Idiot =/= Evil though True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom037 Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 I wouldn't say he's an idiot, doormat is a better term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) The game doesn't fool me, the BK is evil. There was no reason at all to kill greil. I mean there are a thousand characters that can prove they're strong without killing a person and then following their children. BTW, I also think Sephiran and ashera are evil (and Zephiel for the same reason). Wanting to kill everyone just because some people are bad is terrible. Pelleas is just dumb Edited August 25, 2013 by Nobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 I don't think Pelleas was really stupid, he was raised a peasant until Izuka told him otherwise, he knows nothing about being a leader. He didn't know anything about Izuka, he seemed like a generous patriot to Daein. As a leader who knew nothing of being a king, I can justify almost all his actions, and he was even selfless enough to give his life to see if it were to save his people. I never considered him a villain at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Pelleas trusted Izuka but was still a good enough person to have Tauroneo, Jill, and Zihark on his side. He's just too sheltered to have sympathy for the laguz, since that was his education, so at the time he doesn't find Izuka morally repugnant until the very point where he is bullied into helping Begnion. After that point, it's hard to call Pelleas evil when all he's doing is trying his best not to get everyone in Deain killed. Meanwhile, the Black Knight killed Greil for fun, in addition to helping Sephiran revive Ashera. I might have had sympathy for Zelgius had he not killed Greil, but his rivalry with Greil and Ike was so extreme I can't think of Zelgius as anything but a terrible person in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) Sure, the script doesn't want us to dislike either one. But for my part, I have little sympathy for Zelgius. He murdered his mentor and threatened the live of both of his kids. And the rest of the mercenaries didn't exactly take it well either. Shinon and Gatrie left immediately, for starters. He casually ruins the lives of so many people... All all of that just to feel the thrill of a fight that forces him to his limits. Honestly, if you even get someone like Mist to say "I'll kill you!", you should know that you've gone too far. This guy's priorities are epically messed up. Let's not forget Greil's reaction to Zelgius. It's not "what the heck are you doing?!", it's "Oh, it's you huh?". Edited August 25, 2013 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) I thought I was in the minority when I thought that Zelgius wasn't quite as honourable as the game thinks he is. I never bought his excuse for killing Greil either. He wanted to prove that he was better then his teacher I get that, but killing him was kind of unneccesary, especially considering Zelgius knew that Greil was far weaker then he used to be. I kind of like Pelleas and trusting Izuka might not been his brightest moment, but its not that strange that Pelleas believed him. Izuka looks and acts like a total villain, but Pelleas had very little reason to doubt his word. This was the man who got Pelleas out of the orphanage, reunited him with his "mother" and gave him everything he had when we first meet him. And even less spineless and more intelligent figures like Tauroneo seem to trust the Izuka for some strange reason. Edited August 25, 2013 by Sasori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Pretty much like everyone else said, Zelgius is a giant douchebag, and no one cared when he died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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