AM/PM Mafia - GAME OVER

[Sunwoo]

Grassbridger has been subbed in for Elieson.

[Grassbridger]

Well I'm all caught up now, and glad we're chock-full of activity. But ah, so it goes when only 2 players can talk. Post o' thoughts:

FWIW I don't have Elieson's role PM, just a new copy for myself, so I can't see his past actions. Mods, can you do something about this? Not that it matters too much since all his actions were publicly announced.

I have 2 potential theories on game setup, that are rather independent of each other:

-2/2 multiball with alternating kills; this could explain why everyone was bussing everyone else (BBM bussing both Kay and Blitz; Kay bussing BBM; Blitz bussing Kay) but idk if it's that helpful right now, just throwing in some game setup spec because the setup is so weird and if it's going to influence my thought process then might as well explain it. And it affects reads.

-1/3 day/night scum, makes Prims slot the last scum FMPOV. Case on him: lining up lynches in 490 a bit? But he's bussing Kay at the same time (but that can be explained if multiball...) He seemed very sure that Rein was town and then flipped on him, but I don't see too much scum intent of it because we've lost a lot of players since then. Prims was also scumreading BBM hard before BBM died.

Here's the breakdown FMPOV (assuming no ITP):

-1 daymafia, 1 daytown, 2 night town. The only thing keeping us alive is my persuade... except we're out of protective roles (day are all vanilla, Objection claimed redirector) so mafia just kills in the night, maybe Objection can redirect that to the mafia player but maybe not? I'm not sure how redirector works exactly. In either case, the game might be already over in this situation.

-2 daytown, 1 nightmafia, 1 nighttown. Y'all gotta lynch Objection FMPOV 'cause I'm town.

So, here are my options:

1. no persuade

2. Persuade a dayplayer to vote for Objection

3. Persuade Rein to vote for Eclipse or vice versa

I have not yet analyzed what happens in case of (1).

If I choose (2), presumably the other dayplayer votes Objection too, since if they're scum they'll win and if they're town it's their only chance (I think?). So, (2) wins iff Objection is scum.

If I choose (3), NL. Town loses unless Objection redirects the mafia kill to the remaining mafia member.

[Grassbridger]

Objection: can you confirm whether your role would redirect scum kill to scum if you hit it right?

[The Objection!]

Objection: can you confirm whether your role would redirect scum kill to scum if you hit it right?

No, I can't make an action target the owner, it would only fail in that case and I can't target myself.

If I die tonight, scum is Elieson/Grassbridge.

Reasons why Elieson/Grass might be scum:

1. If scum kills me, that means scum can't kill another day player, therefore the scum must be Grass/Elie because a dayscum would've killed Grass/Elie to control the lynch.

-1/3 day/night scum, makes Prims slot the last scum FMPOV. Case on him: lining up lynches in 490 a bit? But he's bussing Kay at the same time (but that can be explained if multiball...) He seemed very sure that Rein was town and then flipped on him, but I don't see too much scum intent of it because we've lost a lot of players since then. Prims was also scumreading BBM hard before BBM died.

You don't seem full of confidence that I'm scum.

If otherwise then scum is Rein/Eclipse (rein most likely). Also I have another reason to believe that scum isn't Grass/Elie:

Suddenly, top tier townread on Straw.

I don't know why would you post that you have a townread on someone then kill him, its like making yourself look intentionally bad.

And one more less strong point, I don't think a mod would've given a persuade to scum because it'd be uber then. But then Elie might be bluffing about the persuade I have no idea.

Conclusion: If I die, lynch Elie. If Elie/Eclipse dies lynch Rein. If Rein dies f***. I'm betting that scum is reading this and planning WIFOM.

[The Objection!]

Also I won't be around for a while because of homeworks.

[Grassbridger]

The problem is, Objection, I'm thinking through things from a perspective of "if X is scum, can we possibly win?" With 2 day players left and no protective role, one scum among them would control the lynch, and my persuade won't do too much.

Basically, there is NO WAY to kill dayscum at this point, since even if they got one vote, they could just vote for someone else, NL, and night kill their way to victory. PoE, Objection HAS to be the last scum.

Objection: really? Bluffing about the persuade? There's been one persuaded player each day, every day player flip has been vanilla, and you've claimed redirector. Also, you're advocating impossible scenarios unless people vote for themselves (which I can't force).

[Grassbridger]

Anyway, Objection: can you self-target?

[Grassbridger]

Oh oops I missed that, you already said no self-targeting.

Turns out the scenarios aren't quite as simple as I thought and I have to do some actual scumreading.

1. Based on #539, either Rein is town or it is 2/2 multiball with Kay and Rein on different teams. Rein could have voted for either Objection or Kay at that point on the "no lynch sucks; let's not do it" justification, but he chose Kay, who flipped scum. No reason to bus your own teammate like that when you're trying to avoid a NL.

2. Eclipse was on the Kay wagon too, so same goes for Eclipse: either she's town, or it's 2/2 multiball with Kay and Eclipse on different teams, because I don't see that bussing happening realistically.

3. Eclipse and Rein both voted for Cowbell and Shinori, the only two votes on each wagon. However, they can't *both* be scum (unless we have 3/3 and EVERYONE but me is scum) so... this may not be helpful.

4. Rein voted for Blitz, Eclipse didn't... but Elie forced Eclipse to vote for Shinori, and Eclipse vocally supported the Blitz lynch.

Anyway, a new scenario just occurred to me. I think town wins if Objection redirects any actions from me to a dayfolk.

Objection, convince me to trust you.

[Grassbridger]

(we need to coordinate our roles for this to work)

[Grassbridger]

Objection if you haven't responded to this thread by an hour before phase end, I'm persuading someone to vote for you

[The Objection!]

Grass, your theory is assuming that the mafia is going to target you for nightkill while the mafia can target somebody else let's say, me. But I'll do it since it's our best bet for your persuade.

And yes, there is a way to lynch dayscum although it's based on luck. We need half remaining players' vote for hammer and half of 2 is 1 so if the daytown can vote before dayscum....

And I suppose the persuade is legit so grass isn't scum. I have no idea who the mafia is right now although I'm assuming it's Rein through PoE.

[Grassbridger]

No, there's no hammer in this game.

Also yeah, you're right, I was assuming that. Based on your claim, mafia might have tried to kill Elie (me) and gotten redirected to Strawman. But that's a good point.

Please redirect actions from me to Rein tonight.

[charlie_]

Objection has been killed! He was...

Dear Prims Objection,

You are JB, a night courier.

Each day phase, you may send 4 messages that are no more than 150 words to someone in the game. Your target may not reply back.

You win when all threats to town have been removed.

But uh, then town won.

eclipse has been endgamed...? She was...

Dear Ether, eclipse,

You are Cam, a day vanilla.

You have no special abilities aside from your vote and your word.

You win when nothing can cause the mafia's death.

Rein and Grassbridger have survived! They were...

Dear Rein,

You are scorri, a day vanilla.

You have no special abilities aside from your vote and your word.

You win when all threats to town are removed.

Dear Elieson Grassbridger,

You are Blitz, a night persuader announcer.

Each day phase you may make an announcement that is no more than 150 words. This announcement will be posted in the thread as soon as a host sees it. You may announce twice per phase.

Each night phase you may reply to your role pm Night X - Compel <USERA> to vote for <USERB>. A must be a day player. They will be forced to vote for B the following day. This will be reflected in votals.

You win when all threats to town have been removed.

Congrats to the town.

[spoiler=Explanations go here]

Basically, Elieson COULD self target. Due to conflicting responses between Boron and myself, Elieson thought he couldn't. We didn't really realize this until really late on, we thought that Eli just misread the answer. Unfortunately, when we were trying to figure out whether or not to tell him (when we realized it was in fact our fault) I accidentally posted a log that was meant for the master pm in Eli's... Good job me. So we had a mad last minute subhunt (thanks Grass) and Grass persuaded eclipse to herself. Rein COULD have opted for NL, but then eclipse would've been forced to kill either him or Grass, who would probably make the same action due to Rein not hammering eclipse would confirm him as town anyway, eclipse would either lynch herself, or be assisted by Rein. That's why we're calling the game now, rather than letting it run on pointlessly for another six days.

So yeah, sorry for that massive mix-up Eli. It was pretty much our fault, and we didn't figure out that it was our fault for a while.

[Elieson]

Thank fucking god.

GG

*rants as raves about the last minute sub here, SB!!!*

[Paperblade]

[13:31] <@Paperblade> BigBadMafia losing feels good

[13:31] <@Paperblade> oh yes justice

[Sunwoo]

I'm not in a good place to change the thread title or do much of anything right now, but next time, if someone don't understand what I was trying to tell them and I had not explicitly overruled the word of a co-mod, JUST ASK ME TO EXPLAIN. Until I say "cannot confirm or deny" I can answer any questions you may have about your role. I mean, I know it's my fault for confusing Elieson but the fact that he didn't ask me to clarify and that I thought he was pulling a gambit because SB explicitly told him "yes" really had me confused as well.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

bastard modding

[Sunwoo]

First things first:

scorri has revealed her true self! She was:

Dear scorri,

You are scorri, an omniphase loudspeaker killer.

Once during the game, you may submit an action to kill the loudspeakers that are making announcements. This action may not be submitted any time you are alive.

You are allied with yourself. You win when those loudspeakers are dead.

The basic idea of this setup was to see how well town could coordinate and scum hunt when only half of the town could vote to lynch and all players were limited to posting during only one phase. I was also hoping it would encourage people to be more active and talk more because every interaction and discussion counted a lot more than it normally would.

Since this game was mostly experimental, everyone was vanilla except for certain night roles. The vigilante and the persuader existed so that night players could have some control over the lynch and to keep lynch control from falling into scum hands too soon. The backup vigilante was there just in case the vig was scanned early or died off quickly. All night players had a courier or an announcer ability to communicate with day players during the lynch and to defend themselves if they themselves were being lynched. Scum had a rolecop to find threatening power roles, but was alternate night so that they couldn't find all the power roles in one go, and a bulletproof because a vig existed. Day players were all vanilla since they held all the lynch control.

Both phases had two scum and five town in them, the reason the game wasn't called after Cowbell was lynched was because of the persuader who COULD force people to self-target. Strawman and Prims were NOT power roles because I felt that a vig, a backup vig, and a persuader was enough town power to keep lynch control from falling into scum hands.

If I could have done something differently, I would've added in a limited phase swapper (originally suggested by Prims) and rebalanced the game for 16 players. I also should have rerolled the RNG after it put all the talkative people in the night phase and a bunch of usually quiet people in the day phase. Kudos to Rein, though, for actually putting in more effort into this game than I've ever seen.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I think this game dragged on long enough that all the rage subsided.

[Da Bear]

Rein MVP obviously.

[riariadne]

At first I was annoyed when all the quiet people were at night phase, but then I realized it was a blessing because that meant I had virtually nothing to reread so I could be active as fuck.

my only regret this game was not outposting BBM, but I would've if we didn't endgame eclipse.

also Cowbell's attitude really annoyed me all game. Just... don't do that.

[riariadne]

Oh yeah and I already mentioned this to Boron but I really would've liked at least 1 way to commune at night from the day. Just because there wasn't a lynch doesn't mean communication didn't matter

[Elieson]

Cowbell can I ask what was going through your head at any given point?

[riariadne]

also

Also I'm partially convinced that Rein is playing as strongly as he is entirely due to having a cool role.

vanilla is too powerful

[Elieson]

2vanilla4U