Fakeclaim Mafia - Game Over

[Grassbridger]

My apologies, I missed your scumslip reasoning because your vote post was separated from your logic post. That's actually a decent thought, although I personally don't buy it.

(I should slow down my posts, it's not 10 minutes to phase end anymore...)

[Sunwoo]

I have a bit of a headache so I might go away in a bit. But before I do, here are some thoughts after the flip.

After the last day phase's shenanigans, I highly doubt Grassbridger is scum. I don't think I've ever seen such a last minute lynch occur in that manner. Pretty sure Elie isn't scum either, but the read's not as strong as with Grassbridger.

I was going to ISO Wallcrab to see who he interacted with, but since he changed his name his ISO is broken. (Yo, BBM, can you fix that?) I do find it interesting that SB pushed him and even voted him when he first subbed in, and yet SB's vote was on Euklyd at the end of the day. I'm going to have to reread all of SB's interactions to see which I think is a bus and which is not.

Speaking of SB, though, that claims gaffe ... so SB's original claim of hooker was correct and he lied about being sent the wrong role PM. I think both Paper and Levity ended up not wanting to lynch SB over scorri after SB said "I got sent the wrong role PM". Paper said to scorri that "SB's claim is townier than yours" as well. Levity counterclaimed SB first, yes, but she also wanted to lynch scorri over him after SB claimed he got the wrong role. In lieu of SB's flip, the way Levity was all "Boron saying that the role mixup was null the way she did is scummy because it looked like she was trying to discredit SB" strikes me as suspicious now. The only thing bugging me is the counterclaim.

##Vote: Paperblade

Why did you think that SB's claim was townier than scorri's? I don't understand how you could dislike Manix's content to the extent you did, but then decide his sub had just so much better content that you'd be willing to lynch scorri over him regardless of what Manix had already done.

[Refa]

That said, having no vote down at the end of the phase... I don't like it. But there are some valid reasons and I don't think it's worth a vote without hearing from Polydeuces first.

I disagree. He's not in any danger of being lynched, he's the person I find most suspicious right now, and this will pressure him to give some reasoning, if nothing else. I don't think it's the strongest of reasons either but it's the best I have to go off of at the moment.

Refa, that's bad vote reasoning. I almost didn't vote at the end of last phase, even though I was around and preferred the 2nd wagon (SB) to the 1st wagon (Scorri), since I wanted to avoid NL--I needed Elie to agree to vote SB at the same time. Not only that, but how do you know Polydeuces was even around at the end of last phase? He posted almost an hour after phase end, and even if you saw him reading the thread (and please say if you did, it's relevant), things were updating very quickly and he may not have been caught up.

I do not recall him reading the thread, although considering I was on the thread 30 minutes before hammer and then appeared about 30 minutes after the hammer, I'm not the most reliable person for that information. Regardless, it's more the combination of my points that makes me suspicious of him than any one individually. 1) He didn't vote, despite being active around a day or two before hammer. 2) Before that, he's been mostly inactive and hasn't contributed a lot. 3) The night post that may or may not have been a scumslip (who really says welp when scum has been lynched). Alone, I could dismiss any of these as just coincidence or the last one as a newbie mistake, but all three make me more suspicious of him than I otherwise would have been.

Regarding Psych's claim, I'm not sure what to think of it. I don't think scum would so easily proclaim a kill, plus we can easily verify his JOAT role by the next day (by having him track a known townee), so I'm fairly certain that is his real role. However, he could be scum!JOAT. Thoughts?

[Grassbridger]

Refa, are you making some assumption I'm unaware of about the JOAT role? What makes you think Psych can track?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Short version before I go: I investigated Euklyd and got scum.

##Vote: Euklyd

[scorri]

Well. That's useful.

[euklyd]

Jeez. I get back from school and Weapons has done something dumb.

Did you by chance pick up a videotape?

I'm surprised you investigated a claimed PGO. If you're telling the truth, you will die at the end of Day 3. If you don't and I'm lynched in the meantime, it will be clear that you're scum and lying, and if you do, then I can't say I didn't warn you.

I am the never-even-claimed-in-game PGO from Schoolboy Mafia, so I've got a 3-phase delay. I hand out cursed videotapes, since I'm the antagonist from The Ring (Samara Morgan).

[Elieson]

Inb4 a driver exists because both grass and boron claimed redirected (or nexus, I dunno I can't think of other roles that force multiple redirection).

And Lolk weapons score find. I'm keeping my vote on bizz tho if only because I don't wanna have a day devoted to nothing but Euk-tunneling.

[Sunwoo]

Inb4 a driver exists because both grass and boron claimed redirected (or nexus, I dunno I can't think of other roles that force multiple redirection).

I targeted Shinori and was redirected to someone else who I will not out. I do not know who did this, and I suspect that this redirector is scum. However, there is a chance that my being redirected may have caused extra confusion to happen this past night.

I see Weapons claiming Euklyd is scum, and I am not sure what to think of this.

[euklyd]

Oh right, I have a bit more to say.

I didn't feel the need to mention the time-delay yesterday (compared to the other things I was saying) since I had limited time and was only in my phone.

This is because I assumed that I would either be policy-lynched or not, but I honestly thought nobody would actually investigate me (or NK me, but that obviously didn't happen).

Anyways if you're scum (and given your result, you're either scum, insane, or paranoid) then I think myself (an extremely inexperienced player) for a much more experienced scum is a bargain (actually, myself for any scum is a great value), and if not then we've just lost an investigator.

I would advise you to make tomorrow count, so investigate someone useful tonight.

Also if I was scum I'm not sure why SB would be trying to bus me D1.

[scorri]

So here's the thing. If Weapons is indeed scum, why would he claim a guilty on you? It's just going to reveal him as scum and result in him getting shot or lynched the next day. Investigating a claimed PGO is dumb, I agree, and I would like to see his reasoning for why he did that, but that doesn't explain why he'd claim a guilty on someone when the best it could do is get mafia a 1v1 trade. Not really worth it when they've already lost two members.

[Refa]

Refa, are you making some assumption I'm unaware of about the JOAT role? What makes you think Psych can track?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jack-of-all-trades

I'm just going off of this. It says it has several one shot roles, my tracker role was just an example; depending on whatever he confirms, he can cop someone, doc someone, I dunno, point is it shouldn't be hard to prove that he has JOAT just by doing something proveable that's not Vig shot.

Also if I was scum I'm not sure why SB would be trying to bus me D1.

This isn't a good defense because you did not have many votes on you at the time (thus lowering the chances of lynching a scumbuddy), and SB could be trying to get the pressure off of himself. Additionally, all throughout D1 SB and Bearclaw were voting for each other, and they were in fact scumbuddies.

[Grassbridger]

Any point waiting 3 phases to lynch Euklyd? See what happens to Weapons and either confirm his JOAT investigative powers, or see Euklyd is lying? Basically, we can confirm more stuff if we wait.

[Grassbridger]

Yeah

The "standard" JOAT is a one-shot Cop, one-shot Doctor, one-shot Vig, and one-shot Roleblocker. However, this exact model is uncommon.

Don't assume too much on the role thing there? Although if Weapons or Psych chooses to confirm, that's a thing... (I guess they probably shouldn't.)

[scorri]

Grass: Or we lynch Euklyd today, if he flips town, lynch Weapons tomorrow.

[Refa]

Yeah

Don't assume too much on the role thing there? Although if Weapons or Psych chooses to confirm, that's a thing... (I guess they probably shouldn't.)

Did Psych ever state which game he got the role from, or did he just claim JOAT? According to him, he used vig shot on kirsche, and yesterday he claimed hooker.

Any point waiting 3 phases to lynch Euklyd? See what happens to Weapons and either confirm his JOAT investigative powers, or see Euklyd is lying? Basically, we can confirm more stuff if we wait.

Is there anything about Euklyd's role that confirms him as town (or anything else, really)? Because if we-dammit Scorri. Basically what she said.

[Sunwoo]

When is Weapons going to get back anyway? I'd like him to explain some stuff, and especially his reasoning for investigating the claimed PGO, before I do anything else.

[euklyd]

So here's the thing. If Weapons is indeed scum, why would he claim a guilty on you? It's just going to reveal him as scum and result in him getting shot or lynched the next day. Investigating a claimed PGO is dumb, I agree, and I would like to see his reasoning for why he did that, but that doesn't explain why he'd claim a guilty on someone when the best it could do is get mafia a 1v1 trade. Not really worth it when they've already lost two members.

I have no idea why he would do such a thing. I really have no clue. I also have no idea why anyone would investigate a claimed PGO, but I am inexperienced in most mafia-playing aspects, so I really don't know.

This isn't a good defense because you did not have many votes on you at the time (thus lowering the chances of lynching a scumbuddy), and SB could be trying to get the pressure off of himself. Additionally, all throughout D1 SB and Bearclaw were voting for each other, and they were in fact scumbuddies.

I honestly don't have any good defenses because I've been being stupid the entire game. My best defense at this point is probably that if I was indeed scum I would have scumbuddies coaching me and so I wouldn't be making all these mistakes.

Is there anything about Euklyd's role that confirms him as town (or anything else, really)? Because if we-dammit Scorri. Basically what she said.

Not to my knowledge, although I don't think scum get PGOs very often (do they?).

Grass: Or we lynch Euklyd today, if he flips town, lynch Weapons tomorrow.

The problem with this is that if Weapons is insane or paranoid, then he could legitimately have gotten a scum result when he investigated me.

I would say the better course of action would be to lynch Weapons if he's still around Day 4, since if he did investigate me he's dead at the end of Day 3 anyways, and if he's lying then he's either scum or incredibly stupid.

Oh btw due to unforseen IRL circumstances I prob won't be on much until much later this evening/tonight.

[Elieson]

I know scum had a PGO in Kamen Rider, so it's not like an impossible-to-be-scum role fyi

[Percivalé]

I idled last night

I'm pissed that I fell for SB's role thing but Boron remember when I said you saying the claim mixup was null was scummy? I thought you were referring to my cc and not just the SB mixup directly. <_< Also when I said it was scummy in the same vein that Manix tried to discredit Shinori's claim? Well, guess who flipped scum?

Why do people still think I'm scum though I don't get it but god damn it I was going to drink with Kevin I hate you people. I think after yesterday Kevin was one of the least scummy people in the game.

Also I was going to vote the flipped scum today so I am not sure what to do now.

[Percivalé]

I'm inclined to believe the people who think my role cc is scummy are scummy tbh.

[Sunwoo]

I'm pissed that I fell for SB's role thing but Boron remember when I said you saying the claim mixup was null was scummy? I thought you were referring to my cc and not just the SB mixup directly. <_< Also when I said it was scummy in the same vein that Manix tried to discredit Shinori's claim? Well, guess who flipped scum?

When I said the claim mixup was null I was talking about SB "apparently" getting sent the wrong role PM. Your counterclaim was not included, just the so-called mixup itself. You are drawing parallels that do not exist between Manix trying to discredit Shinori's claim and my saying that SB getting sent a wrong PM is null. You trying to use these parallels and saying "well guess who flipped scum" also sounds like trying to shove suspicion on me. Well, guess who was voting for that flipped scum yesterday >_>

Saying that you're inclined to believe people who think your counterclaim is scummy are scummy is not very endearing either.

[Percivalé]

I think investigating claimed PGO is kind of scummy but when you think about it why would you risk that kind of thing as scum? Like there's the possibility Euklyd and Weapons staged it for some reason but I actually had thoughts about hooking the PGO to see if he was telling the truth but decided against it

But the thing that does bother me is Weapons could be lying that he investigated Euklyd to get him lynched but then he would get shot/lynched when Euklyd flipped scum so why would he do that as scum??

idk

[Percivalé]

You trying to use these parallels and saying "well guess who flipped scum" also sounds like trying to shove suspicion on me. Well, guess who was voting for that flipped scum yesterday >_>

Saying that you're inclined to believe people who think your counterclaim is scummy are scummy is not very endearing either.

[/quote

If you want me to be completely honest you're a null read for me and also I just realized something about the game so never mind that last thing I said. I think I'm mostly irritated at Elie for tunneling me.

[Percivalé]

OH MY GOD I FUCKED UP THE QUOTE TAFG