Shinori Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 IONO MAYBE THEY DID KILL BUT IT WAS ACTUALLY DELAYED? LOL. I mean, Idk how someone can be made into lovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 SB and/or Boron reported it, apparently. I'm kinda surprised that such an ability exists, and it's why I think it's likely that scum have an inventor of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 SB and Boron literally both came into IRC and confirmed it BBM will confirm this + probably others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Well, that still has nothing to do with marth who I dislike. I'm not too sure about this whole eclipse voting thing though, doesn't seem like it will be good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Eclipse made a weird scan, butttttttt it makes sense to confirm a "very likely town" as town, if you are skeptical town. I assumed she was going to scan and announce a result on either bbm or paperblade, I just wasnt sure which. She pretty heavily implied it anyway. ##unvote I'm less sure about shinori being scum now with the recent debate. Itp maybe, but scum, I kinda doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Eclipse made a weird scan, butttttttt it makes sense to confirm a "very likely town" as town, if you are skeptical town. I assumed she was going to scan and announce a result on either bbm or paperblade, I just wasnt sure which. She pretty heavily implied it anyway. No, it really doesn't, when there are people who weren't even likely town, like Kay and Shinori to scan. Me/Paperblade, okay, even if we were more likely to be town than scum, our position of town leaders makes it so that clearing us 100% still makes sense. There's no reason to scan Bearclaw over Kay, Shinori, or Paperblade. Eclipse was voting Kay on D6; she was the one who argued most vehemently (after Boron) against Shinori when Paper and I were hard defending him, and was also paranoid of Paperblade on N3 and had tried to target him before she got driven to Rocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I can kind of see Eclipse scanning me since me blocking her the night before could be seen as scum trying to look dumb, wasn't the best move FMPOV but I guess it's better than nothing, I don't think we're really going to gain anything by saying it was a bad choice though. My lynching priority is kind of fucked up, I'll try to figure out who I want to lynch soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Well then Confirmed Town Me Eli Euk Wouldn't lynch yet Paper Eclipse Shinori BBM Kay And then people seem really convinced that Marth is town even if I'm kind of doubting it... I would like a No Lynch personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Well then Confirmed Town Me Eli Euk Wouldn't lynch yet Paper Eclipse Shinori BBM Kay And then people seem really convinced that Marth is town even if I'm kind of doubting it... I would like a No Lynch personally. scum4lyfe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Talk from the Dead is back! Proto says Eclipse ought to be lynched because she picked, in his opinion, the two worst investigation targets and kinda wasted the Motivation Program. Bearclaw is already obvtown and clearing BBM isn't an absolute clear because he's the one who cleared her. IMO, BBM and Eclipse being scumbuddies isn't that likely, but there were (and are) much better targets. Uh. He thinks that Eclipse flipping ITP would clear Kay because he doesn't see a 15/5/1 setup, and since Kay was roleblocked she could not be the last scum. Also it would mean that I would no longer be uberclear. That's all, folks. My lynch priority currently looks like: Eclipse = Kay > Shinori ≥ PB ≥ BBM I want to know why Eclipse felt it necessary to investigate Bearclaw, especially when there's people like Kay. Also, I want to know where Kay has gotten to. She was around for the IRC channel, and I saw her online yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 So we are voting off our cop because we suspect her off being itp moreso than scum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The only other option is Kay, really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 tbh I've got a stronger scumread on kay but it's entirely reliant on the scumteam having more than 1 remaining member (because obvious reason is obvious). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 If you're going to entertain the theory that Eclipse and I are scumbuddies and I might be lying about her being a Cop, then nobody is clear because then we might just be BSing alignments. I'm just as clear as Eclipse's other targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 If I could, I'd replace the current warn system with "shove a cucumber into the offender's mouth". I just came on to a huge administrative mess. I need to sort this out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Cucumbers are delicious; that's like an incentive to misbehave. Although I would rather not eat one whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 At the time, Euklyd shot up in townliness on Paper/BBM's tier list, and I wasn't sure why. I wasn't suspicious of him being read as town, but I was suspicious that a player with practically zero content had been "pretty much proven as town". Part of my suspicion was that sure, he had done something/said something in private that made him appear town to our leaders, but the other part was if his role was proven as town or alignment checked or something, and I feel as though that's something that could've been outted by our leaders in order to prevent things like needless suspicion from occurring. I wouldn't have wasted time breaking down Euklyd as theoretical scum if our leaders had just said "Euklyd's been cleared because a nameless player pretty much cleared him". But instead, he shot up and it was strange. Sort of aggrivating. A player who had done nothing was looking more townie than people who were active and actually looking townie. Something didn't make sense, and I was more trying to piece together the puzzle and figure things out rather than let the leaders run the show. I'm not suspicious of him anymore (if I seem like I am, I'm more pushing for contribution from him at this point). I needed to distinguish if he was "probably town" vs "town", because neither paperblade nor bbm explained that part. Considering the possibility that someone might be theoretical scum and trying to work out why they're considered townish seems different from voting for him. If you weren't sure whether he was definitely town or probably town, either way that doesn't justify him apparently being least town. -Kay: PoE mostly, but her voting pattern has been iffy and she has disobeyed orders. When have I disobeyed what orders? Oh wait, I just rummaged through your ISO; can you only move one item per night or something? I can only give away one item per night. I can also take items from someone during the same night, but I can only target one person. Anyone being cleared by me is a null on my own alignment; if I'd driven a lynch based off of my result, and he/she flipped town, I'd be next. Likewise, if I said someone was town and they flipped anything but godfather, I'd be in trouble. This is basic logic. Not sure of either what you mean or how I might have contradicted that. 1. Strongman/Janitor doesn't make much sense as a fake. The mafia kill failed twice so I doubt they have a strongman and there's been no janitors If it was one shot per role, he might have used them in the non-ideal order, using the strongman kill on N1 and the jan on N2. Or maybe he thought claiming being tailored would frame someone else, possibly you. Strege, check whether the timing of you being alerted to this was a host error. One thing that seemed weird though, on D5 I was like "Hey Kay give the book to Shinori", and even though we'd never actually spoken to her at that point and heard firsthand that she had a book in the first place, she didn't find it out of the ordinary. AFAICR the only people who even knew that there was an Item Cop, let alone that it was Strege, were me, Paper, Bear, and Strege and the mafia. We didn't hint to anyone that one existed until N5. If she didn't know there was an Item Cop, why didn't she ask us, either in public on D5 or in private on N5 when we spoke to her, how we knew she had a book? I might be wrong here because no logs, but I can't remember Kay being one of the people we told on N5 that there was an Item Cop. I had been thinking about posting that I had it, and probably just assumed that I had. I certainly remembered having said something and had to check my ISO to make sure I actually hadn't. Proto hasn't actually offered a reason for why either me or Paper are scum beyond him being paranoid that one of the town leaders might be scum. Neither of our roles are particularly amazing for town, and mine has no scum benefit beyond moling. The Persuader part of Paper's role doesn't actually help town all that much other than to make use of the votes of inactives. Yeah he has items in addition to that, but most of them are inferior to the ones that Proto can give out. I don't recall this being correct but I may be mixing up stuff from the thread with stuff from the QT, I'll have to check. But I thought Euklyd mentioned the redundancy of Paper and Proto's roles both being town as a thing. Euklyd, question. You have more information than the rest of the town about me, namely the interactions in the QT. Are you taking that into account in your scumread on me, and what difference does it make, if any? But I don't know why Kay and Rein wouldn't tell you guys that it existed. The first time I managed to catch the IRC chat was when you subbed in. Also I figure it's just as well to let the cleared townie keep his info to himself as much as he can and wants to. I don't seem to recall Eclipse giving any indication that she considered Bear scummy. BBM scan makes sense, although I still think Paperblade was scummier than him. Scum trying to avoid PoE kinda makes sense, but so does paranoid town. I think probably any scum or ITP left is pretty desperate, though, so it seems reasonable. ##Vote: Eclipse because PoE and I know my alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 When have I disobeyed what orders? I can only give away one item per night. I can also take items from someone during the same night, but I can only target one person. (Pretty sure Kay hasn't disobeyed orders, at least to my knowledge) Also I was confused on the how-many-items-per-night as well, since Anyway, I target someone, if they target me their role fails and I take their items. I can also dump items on my target, regardless of what they do. is plural items. If it was one shot per role, he might have used them in the non-ideal order, using the strongman kill on N1 and the jan on N2. Or maybe he thought claiming being tailored would frame someone else, possibly you. Strege, check whether the timing of you being alerted to this was a host error. Um. Strege is dead; he was lynched yesterday, and flipped Scum Snoop/Visionary. I don't recall this being correct but I may be mixing up stuff from the thread with stuff from the QT, I'll have to check. But I thought Euklyd mentioned the redundancy of Paper and Proto's roles both being town as a thing. I have mentioned it a few times. PB's play/actions so far has been pretty town, though, so I don't have much of a case beyond rolespec. Euklyd, question. You have more information than the rest of the town about me, namely the interactions in the QT. Are you taking that into account in your scumread on me, and what difference does it make, if any? Uh, yes I am, and I'm reading it as null. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I feel that if kay was scum she most likely wouldn't have revealed she could take items from people and she would have just taken any vests I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Well I was waiting for Eclipse to explain her rationale for the Bearclaw inspect, but tbh I don't think that any explanation is going to change my mind, because even if she turns out to have a super good reason for targeting Bearclaw, which I doubt, I still think there's no room for her to be town in this setup. ##Vote: Eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 question, Kay- if not for PoE would you still vote for Eclipse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Just did a quick Votals eclipse (3): Paperblade, Kay, BBM Bluedoom (1): Shinori Shinori (1): Bluedoom Voteless: Euklyd, The Protown SK, JSNDBearclaw, eclipse 9 alive means 5 hammers. 24 hours (give or take a few minutes) left in the phase, based on the 72 hr count and Manix's opening phase post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Considering the possibility that someone might be theoretical scum and trying to work out why they're considered townish seems different from voting for him. If you weren't sure whether he was definitely town or probably town, either way that doesn't justify him apparently being least town. You're misunderstanding that case. It's water under the bridge atm, but the point is that I wasn't finding him probably town vs town, bbm and paperblade did, and I didn't know how that happened. If you had read my content previously, and around the time I voted for him/his slot, you'd have seen that at the time, i found the slot leaning scummy for various reasons; not town like you're misreading from 1 single post. I don't seem to recall Eclipse giving any indication that she considered Bear scummy. BBM scan makes sense, although I still think Paperblade was scummier than him. Scum trying to avoid PoE kinda makes sense, but so does paranoid town. I think probably any scum or ITP left is pretty desperate, though, so it seems reasonable. ##Vote: Eclipse because PoE and I know my alignment. I hate this argument Though yea, the BBM scan is the one that makes sense IMO. The bearclaw one...well, I can see justification for it but with all the points brought up, there's equal/more justification against it. Kay and Paperblade were pretty good check candidates with that motivate, FMPOV. Hell, even Marth/Shinori at the time would've been good alternatives. eclipse, since you didn't already do this, can you provide more justification as to why you scanned bear over anyone else? All I got from that was bearclaw/BBM being town (I sort-of crumbed the former, even if I screwed up my games, and should've made the latter damn clear last day phase). And also, when did you "crumb the former"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 You're misunderstanding that case. It's water under the bridge atm, but the point is that I wasn't finding him probably town vs town, bbm and paperblade did, and I didn't know how that happened. If you had read my content previously, and around the time I voted for him/his slot, you'd have seen that at the time, i found the slot leaning scummy for various reasons; not town like you're misreading from 1 single post. Was there a reason for this original scumminess besides Euklyd having subbed in for a vegetable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Glorious poe (a null read, thus scummy by comparison), and his first few posts didn't have much in them either. Like I said, that's water under the bridge. He has content and has his role to back him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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