Why is there so much hate for Awakening?

[amadeuscho]

i dont understand this

fesd has some of the best artwork in the series

second to like thracia or something

I find Shadow Dragon's art to be really stiff and terribly emotionless, matching the same feeling I have towards the animation in the game.

On Awakening Hate:

Other people have said it, but a lot of it is a hardcore (and hype) backlash from FE veterans and their preconceived notions of the series. There's also a rebellion among the gamer class for casuals and DLC, which FE13 has with both its casual mode and DLC. And the other thing is the hate comes from the praise and popularity it gets, especially outside SF.

I think the concept of the perception of it having a lot of flaws relies on a comparison to other titles in the FE series. For example, in most jRPG's with grinding, if you grind too much, the game becomes too easy. So that's hardly a commentary on FE13; that's more about grounding.

People like to say it has a lot of flaws because they want to point out that it is not deserving of the praise it is getting.

[Dark Sage]

I think the concept of the perception of it having a lot of flaws relies on a comparison to other titles in the FE series. For example, in most jRPG's with grinding, if you grind too much, the game becomes too easy. So that's hardly a commentary on FE13; that's more about grounding.

Uh, yes it is. FE13 is supposed to be a strategy game and not just your standard jRPG; grinding undermines any attempt at difficulty that the developer is trying to enforce (not that there's much difficulty in the first place but whatever). In addition, the concept of grinding DLC is fucking ridiculous.

People like to say it has a lot of flaws because they want to point out that it is not deserving of the praise it is getting.

Or maybe it's because the game does genuinely have a lot of flaws

just maybe

[Thor Odinson]

I'd honestly take whatever the ingame stuff to Shirow Masamune's stuff

Proportions aside his shading feels awfully unnatural

But I will say that his stuff is not entirely without merits, dude's got a good eye for detail, but the execution is painfully lacking

[RJWalker]

He draws faces wierd. D:

[PKL]

Why I hate Awakening:

1. The story is completely terrible. I didn't care for any of the characters except Lucina to some extent and that was mostly because of my Marth bias.

2. The Avatar is just wayyyy overdone in this one. Sure, the FE12 Avatar is Sue-ish too and a great unit, but it wasn't as "OMGROBIN can you please sign me an autograph?", you know what I mean? And he's just so broken that he/she can solo the game.

3. The disconnect with reality in the game makes it look like every character in the game is a loony. Seriously, no one ever feels any remorse over any of the enemies in the game and just proceeds to more comedy. Almost never saying anything serious. The things that actually ARE supposed to be serious, like emmeryn's death end up being a joke because you're likely to not care for her after ch7. She definetely doesnt have enough char development to warrant an emotional song in Ch10.

4. The Pair up system is completely bonkers and I miss my Rescue function. Pair up had the adverse effect of what they wanted to do. Sure, it means you will deploy more units than usual, but due to the way it's designed, one of the units is very likely to be the lead forever because of the exp gain. The other unit is just....there, doing nothing but giving bonuses and attacking every once in a while.

5. The amount of bullcrap that can make you downright invincible. Unlimited Nosferatu? check. Unlimited Rescue? lolcheck. Overleveled unit with a high def cap? Check. Grinding? Check.

6. Which brings me to another issue: Grinding and it's effect on the game. The RNG making skirmishes block shops was soooooooo rage-inducing and very limiting (and a massive middle finger) to challenge runs. Whenever they appeared in tonics shops or the Rescue shop in a challenge run, you would have to wait an indeterminate time to access them. This is just plain terrible design imo or maybe they were trying to shove Skrimishes down our throats.

7. The bigger-than-ever gap between Flier's movement and the other units. 11 Move Griffons? Check. 18 Move Dark Fliers? Check. What? Generals? What's that? Oh, those guys. Yeah, they have 5 move screw you.

8. The map design. It's designed so bad that usually all you have to do is move an overpowered unit up and watch as 10 enemies all go to the unit and die. Repeat until everything dies. Chapter 23 and 24 are great examples of this syndrome. You really aren't ever presented with actual challenges. Just enemies coming at you and dying. Usually they are in groups too, which makes some classes completely unviable. The presence of such an enemy AI usually means your Archers are useless because there's way too many enemies. And there's also the fact that some maps could just be completely ignored due to the presence of buyable Rescue staff. IDK who thought buyable rescue staff was a good idea, because it wasn't. Especially in a game that consists of Defeat Boss in every map after Chapter 12 until Chapter 23.

9. Almost every character is a gimmick.

Conclusion: I hate it because it's a broken game. It was only fun playing it blind the first time even though I had issues with the story. After I realized just how broken everything was, it lost me.

[ZemZem]

And the fact that if you want to see actual good character develooment courtesy of Future Past you have to pay for it is pretty damn lame.

[PKL]

And the fact that if you want to see actual good character develooment courtesy of Future Past you have to pay for it is pretty damn lame.

Yeah, it's sad when a DLC told me a better story than the actual game >_>

[amadeuscho]

Uh, yes it is. FE13 is supposed to be a strategy game and not just your standard jRPG; grinding undermines any attempt at difficulty that the developer is trying to enforce (not that there's much difficulty in the first place but whatever). In addition, the concept of grinding DLC is fucking ridiculous.

Or maybe it's because the game does genuinely have a lot of flaws

just maybe

grinding in FE13 is optional, just like any JRPG. you don't have to do it. And grind DLC is also optional; you don't have to buy it. Don't buy it. No harm, no foul.

The flaws rely on mainly on a comparison to other games in the series. Other than the story, which is subjective, the game is still a great game, and worthy of the praise its getting as one of the best games for the 3DS.

[RJWalker]

The flaws rely on mainly on a comparison to other games in the series.

You talk as if that's a bad thing. Without some reference, every game is a 10/10.

[BrightBow]

grinding in FE13 is optional, just like any JRPG. you don't have to do it. And grind DLC is also optional; you don't have to buy it. Don't buy it. No harm, no foul.

It's not okay to make farming deliberately tedious as hell and then sell the ability to effectively bypass this for areal money. Why should removing obstacles like that be DLC?

Doing so costs IS nothing, so they shouldn't get money for it.

For a FE7 remake, Nintendo might as well make the tutorial deliberately unskipable and then sell the ability to bypass it as DLC.

You would have to face annoyance and tediousness for a few hours but you wouldn't have to buy it ...technically.

And what a coincidence that this game has caps which are like 20 points higher then you need and the ability to farm skills from different classes. And a huge part of the cast that exists for no other reason then to be babied.

Given that just using weapons costs money, you need a lot of cash to max everything. Cash that the two daily Risen encounters don't provide any time soon.

In other games, you walk around until you get into a battle. In Awakening, you give even more real money to IS. Why is that a good thing again? What excuse is there, to not always have an available way to farm money like in every RPG ever or freaking Sacred Stones? What stopped IS to not always have Risen on the map so you can farm as long as you like? My guess: Nothing but Nintendo's shameless greed.

Going out of your way to deny players a proper way to grind in a 40€ game and then selling them such a way for even more cash is a rip off. Plain and simple

It's not anywhere near as bad as the famous Golden Hourglasses... but it's still a rip off.

And if nothing else, there is this huge, purple glowing thing on the map to constantly remind me that Nintendo would like more of my money. It's... kinda annoying.

Edited October 26, 2013 by BrightBow

[Guy Starwind]

As I'm sure many others have said I think the story is crap. I think they tried to force too much into one game and what they have I think is uninteresting.

After playing the three Future Past chapters I think they should make a full game based on these chapters. Obviously you would have to add in more characters and add more to the story but I feel they could do it.

[Skynstein]

It's not okay to make farming deliberately tedious as hell and then sell the ability to effectively bypass this for areal money. Why should removing obstacles like that be DLC?

Doing so costs IS nothing, so they shouldn't get money for it.

For a FE7 remake, Nintendo might as well make the tutorial deliberately unskipable and then sell the ability to bypass it as DLC.

You would have to face annoyance and tediousness for a few hours but you wouldn't have to buy it ...technically.

And what a coincidence that this game has caps which are like 20 points higher then you need and the ability to farm skills from different classes. And a huge part of the cast that exists for no other reason then to be babied.

Given that just using weapons costs money, you need a lot of cash to max everything. Cash that the two daily Risen encounters don't provide any time soon.

In other games, you walk around until you get into a battle. In Awakening, you give even more real money to IS. Why is that a good thing again? What excuse is there, to not always have an available way to farm money like in every RPG ever or freaking Sacred Stones? What stopped IS to not always have Risen on the map so you can farm as long as you like? My guess: Nothing but Nintendo's shameless greed.

Going out of your way to deny players a proper way to grind in a 40€ game and then selling them such a way for even more cash is a rip off. Plain and simple

It's not anywhere near as bad as the famous Golden Hourglasses... but it's still a rip off.

And if nothing else, there is this huge, purple glowing thing on the map to constantly remind me that Nintendo would like more of my money. It's... kinda annoying.

Oh, but they did this because according to some people, this is a strategy game, not an RPG. So grinding in a strategy game is a fatal flaw of the game... These "hardcore" people are the reason the Reeking Boxes cost 4800 gold in Hard and above, and why the game shipped without a proper way to farm and required DLC for it.

I like the option to grind. I don't want IS denying me to do it just because a vocal minority thinks it's heresy and can beat the game without it, restarts or not.

However, and I'll play devil's advocate here, the Golden Pack is cheap enough. Crying over something that's almost free is ridiculous. Here in my country even, the Golden Pack costs 10 bucks. That's chip change.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I like the option to grind. I don't want IS denying me to do it just because a vocal minority thinks it's heresy and can beat the game without it, restarts or not.

I agree. Im actually fond of the DLC. I didnt buy all of them (i didnt buy the Challenge pack because meh.) but i do love playing those maps. Some should have been included in the game without DLC (Future Past) but overall, i dont have any real complaint with the DLC. Ive seen a lot of reviews where people praised how the DLC was handled over some other games that include DLC. /shrug

[Thor Odinson]

the only problem I have with the DLC is that it's the only way to get some halfway quality characterisation and that just shows how bad of a job they did in the main game for supports. I'm all for additional quality character development on top of already quality development for dlc, but this is not the case here.

Otherwise really game already gives you an option to (fairly safely) grind in a series that only had unlimited grinding once (maybe twice? Never played fe2, I know it has the world map) out of like, 12 previous installments. It's nowhere near necessary to beat the game with so, costing money for more reliable grinding doesn't bother me one bit since it isn't pay-to-win. Grinding wasn't much of an FE thing to start with, and the addition is good for people who like grinding to be added but the 4800 for ingame skirmishes is only on hard and above anyway and they are meant to be challenging (even if they really don't come out that way). If you do normal, grind all you want for cheap-ass in-game rates! I like FE:A's handling of the DLC that doesn't involve witholding character dev for money. They're not quite necessary but are nice options.

I also think they should've hired me for dlc art not because i'm amazing but I could do with the money to buy more games from nintendo

Edited October 27, 2013 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze

[Loki Laufeyson]

Well, yeah. Its pretty easy to grind without the DLC because of Spotpass skirmishes. You can get some sweet swag that way too. Sure, EXPonential Growth is quicker grinding, but if one wants to grind and doesnt want to bother with DLC, its definitely possible. Its how i did it until the DLC was out...So right, it is not Pay To Win. You also dont NEED to get Dread Fighter or Bride or those skills to still murder the game.

the only problem I have with the DLC is that it's the only way to get some halfway quality characterisation and that just shows how bad of a job they did in the main game for supports.

Yeah...the Scramble convos should have been actual supports based on how they were written. Hell, id really have a different opinion on Severa if that was the case.

[shadowofchaos]

Yeah...the Scramble convos should have been actual supports based on how they were written. Hell, id really have a different opinion on Severa if that was the case.

Time crunch. They were able to realize their mistakes with support conversations in regards to that after development was actually already done and they couldn't do anything about it.

Especially Future of Despair father conversations with the kids that were non-generic.

Edited October 27, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Thor Odinson]

It really took them that long/many supports later to realise they've fucked up?

[RJWalker]

Since this DLC has been ready since Day 1 (meaning it's been simulatenously in development with the actual game) but only released to the public later, this was an intentional move to make a few extra bucks.

[Robert Stewart]

Since this DLC has been ready since Day 1 (meaning it's been simulatenously in development with the actual game) but only released to the public later, this was an intentional move to make a few extra bucks.

Um

Can I get a source for the DLC being finished on Day 1?

Also, just because DLC is a available that doesn't mean it was developed alongside the main game.

[LuxSpes]

Since this DLC has been ready since Day 1 (meaning it's been simulatenously in development with the actual game) but only released to the public later, this was an intentional move to make a few extra bucks.

Only the first few DLCs were ready from Day 1 and these were the most irrelevant ones. They offered little in term of story and only gave you classes/skills that aren't needed in any way to complete the game. Only the Golden pack has any real use and it's mainly for people that love to grind the crap out of their characters. The fact that these DLC are not in the packaged game aren't a real loss for the players.

The Series 2 DLC are more relevant in terms of content, but came 5-7 months after the release of the game and some part of them used a popularity poll made after the game's release. Sure, it would have been nice to have the Scramble and Future Past packs in the game form day 1, but it looks like IS genuinely needed more time to create that content.

[amadeuscho]

It's not okay to make farming deliberately tedious as hell and then sell the ability to effectively bypass this for areal money. Why should removing obstacles like that be DLC?

Doing so costs IS nothing, so they shouldn't get money for it.

For a FE7 remake, Nintendo might as well make the tutorial deliberately unskipable and then sell the ability to bypass it as DLC.

You would have to face annoyance and tediousness for a few hours but you wouldn't have to buy it ...technically.

And what a coincidence that this game has caps which are like 20 points higher then you need and the ability to farm skills from different classes. And a huge part of the cast that exists for no other reason then to be babied.

Given that just using weapons costs money, you need a lot of cash to max everything. Cash that the two daily Risen encounters don't provide any time soon.

In other games, you walk around until you get into a battle. In Awakening, you give even more real money to IS. Why is that a good thing again? What excuse is there, to not always have an available way to farm money like in every RPG ever or freaking Sacred Stones? What stopped IS to not always have Risen on the map so you can farm as long as you like? My guess: Nothing but Nintendo's shameless greed.

Going out of your way to deny players a proper way to grind in a 40€ game and then selling them such a way for even more cash is a rip off. Plain and simple

It's not anywhere near as bad as the famous Golden Hourglasses... but it's still a rip off.

And if nothing else, there is this huge, purple glowing thing on the map to constantly remind me that Nintendo would like more of my money. It's... kinda annoying.

If they made after the game's release, then they should make money from it. There is still development costs associated with making such levels.

The first few times around I was perfectly fine getting all the classes. Second seals are cheap, and I had a lot of money post game. And if you don't play the game a while the game actually responds with new skirmishes. Additionally, if you make one of your member's barbarian/berserker, you can get the skill despoil to make money without resorting to DLC. So no, the money DLC is not necessary by any means for what you are asking for. In terms of inheritance to the children, it seems to me that the focus is more on the parent generation's connection rather than reclassing the kid. At least two usuable skills should come from the parents. After that, it's about the same as any other unit.

Again, you don't have to give money to DLC to grind to beat the game.

Again, you don't need to pay for it. And there didn't need to be grinding in the way you are talking about anyway, in order to beat the game.

This last point I get. I hate the color purple.

In all honesty, it sounds to me that you seem to feel to have presumptions about game design that you are imposing on the game developers. Sure, you can reclass multiple times, but reclass to get five usable skills doesn't take as long as you make it sound. In addition, the game discourages leveling up and reclassing because there is diminishing returns in terms of experience every time you do so. And agaun, you can beat the game without macing or any grinding. So I don't see how it's required.

I get the sense you have something against DLC in general. If you don't, let me know. But you don't need the DLC to get the full experience in the game. you don't even need it in order to be a completionist. If you want to reclass and make your units stats maxed out, that's perfectly fine, but it's also not necessary. You can't be mad at the developer for self imposed rules on what you want to get out of the game (skill farming and capping your stats for example). I mean, you technically can, but it doesn't just make a whole lot of sense.

[Gregosa]

Usually when a new game comes out from a long-running franchise you're bound to see two groups of people be very hostile. It's usually a mix of nostalgia gamers and hipsters. I remember when Shadow Dragon first came out I kept hearing people complain that game would dumb down the series and that the deaths lost meaning cause support conversations were gone. Well if you've played a lot of Fire Emblem games both of those complaints are bogus. Shadow Dragon has like 5 difficulty modes so you cant say it was dumbed down. The people upset about no supports obviously never played a Japan-only Fire Emblem. In FE4 you could have two characters fall in love(based on some choices) and barely utter an ounce of dialogue.

[RJWalker]

Usually when a new game comes out from a long-running franchise you're bound to see two groups of people be very hostile. It's usually a mix of nostalgia gamers and hipsters. I remember when Shadow Dragon first came out I kept hearing people complain that game would dumb down the series and that the deaths lost meaning cause support conversations were gone. Well if you've played a lot of Fire Emblem games both of those complaints are bogus. Shadow Dragon has like 5 difficulty modes so you cant say it was dumbed down. The people upset about no supports obviously never played a Japan-only Fire Emblem. In FE4 you could have two characters fall in love(based on some choices) and barely utter an ounce of dialogue.

The no supports in FE11 is a VERY legitimate complaint and it's one that I can't ignore, no matter how much I love the game. Bringing up the fact that FE1-5 didn't have support conversations is not a counterpoint either.

[Baldrick]

If the next game re-introduced fe1's trading mechanics would we not be allowed to complain because "obviously we never played fe1"?

[Ike-Mike]

It's a vocal minority trying to suppress a vast majority.

TC, weren't you around when the Wii was at the height of its popularity? It's the same thing happening here.

Bringing up the fact that FE1-5 didn't have support conversations is not a counterpoint either.

Considering that at least 3 out of 5 of those games are well liked, I'd say it's a legitimate counterpoint.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Ike-Mike