Why is there so much hate for Awakening?

[CT075]

but what if i want to be a hipster

[Refa]

but what if i want to be a hipster

i used to be a hipster before it was cool

[Redwall]

Dislike of Awakening is necessary, but not sufficient, for being a hipster. You also need thick-rimmed glasses and form-fitting jeans.

[Skynstein]

Well, it's the same reason why music fans cringe when their beloved niche band breaks into the mainstream, and there are quite a few cases of that in history, like when Metallica released their Black Album that was oh so different from their previous ones, more "radio friendly", and therefore bashed by the "hardcore fans", although it is a pretty solid album and one of the best Metallica did, even if radio friendly. With Awakening, IS knew it was their last shot so probably the order at Nintendo was to make something that was more mainstream, and that's exactly what they did, with Casual mode, tropey characters, a self-insert and a simple plot. It is a good game, and plenty of fun, but it's different from older games so the fans of older games (and of the series in general) will nitpick, especially since there are reviews galore from mainstream gaming sites praising the game.

My biggest complaint with Awakening is the plot, but I don't think it's bad. It's just "easy" and effortless. From the moment they went with time travel, they were cornered by the flaws of the concept. Time travel was the moment Lost (the series) jumped the shark IMO. When you want to work with time travel, the first thing you must do is to establish the rules of time travel in your world. Back to the Future and Terminator had their rules, Lost had its own. Awakening doesn't make clear to the player which rules they are, it just says that the future can be changed but there are events in the game which imply otherwise, such as Emmeryn still dying despite Lucina's efforts to course-correct the timeline. So it becomes a bit of a mess. It's not a terrible plot, it's just too simple for a game with the magnitude Awakening has.

Chapter 7 is not the worst in the game by any means. Emmeryn's actions are incredibly stupid if we look at them with 20/20 hindsight, but she does plausibly justify them. If she fled for her life, the people would've lost their spirits and Ylisstol would basically be Gangrel's for the taking. Take all kings that fled during war in the course of history and none of them ended up well. So Emmeryn actually did the most reasonable thing, it's just that Gangrel's forces were too overwhelming. About Cordelia, I agree she should've been handled better but she IS a side character after all, so it was a given that she wouldn't have been given much of a chance to shine and her story wouldn't have been explained well, unless you support her with your avatar in the game, where there's a bit of character development. And seriously, criticizing it because of the sudden appearance of the hierarch is such a low blow... He's an unimportant character who was there just to reiterate there were traitors in the kingdom (as could be implied by Chapter 6).

I'd say Chapter 6 is way worse than Chapter 7, since it basically depicts Phila and her league of pegasus knights as useless since they can't even protect their queen.

I personally love the characters, even if they are a bit tropey. Only Tharja gets on my nerves a bit, but she's a good unit so that's passable.

[Loki Laufeyson]

My biggest complaint with Awakening is the plot

Same here. Which is why i skip it entirely on replays. The game is fun as all hell, but its plot sucks wanky in a lot of places. I think Chapter 14 is the one i hate the most. That is just pure what-the-fuckery. Lets scorch an entire army in the water and get praised by everybody for it! Yay.

Really?

The Timey Wimey Ball of the game makes little sense. How is Lucina able to continue to exist in a timeline where she already exists causing paradoxes galore! Ya know? But these things arent going to make me froth at the mouth to the point where im hating a game that is, otherwise, very fun to play.

[RJWalker]

Chapter 7 is not the worst in the game by any means. Emmeryn's actions are incredibly stupid if we look at them with 20/20 hindsight, but she does plausibly justify them. If she fled for her life, the people would've lost their spirits and Ylisstol would basically be Gangrel's for the taking. Take all kings that fled during war in the course of history and none of them ended up well. So Emmeryn actually did the most reasonable thing, it's just that Gangrel's forces were too overwhelming. About Cordelia, I agree she should've been handled better but she IS a side character after all, so it was a given that she wouldn't have been given much of a chance to shine and her story wouldn't have been explained well, unless you support her with your avatar in the game, where there's a bit of character development. And seriously, criticizing it because of the sudden appearance of the hierarch is such a low blow... He's an unimportant character who was there just to reiterate there were traitors in the kingdom (as could be implied by Chapter 6).

Since we're talking within the context of Fire Emblem, we have Marth, Marth again, Seliph (kind of), Leif, Eirika, Ephraim, Elincia.

So yeah, I'd say not walking into an obvious trap was the smart thing to do regardless of hindsight.

And the Heirach 'plot' deserves to be ripped apart because Fire Emblem is full of traitors who had their intentions, their backstories, their motivations explained in detail. One great example is Orson and even the random villagers in FE9 that sell out Elincia because of their racism towards Laguz got better development, So when FE13 introduces a character as a 'long time ally of Ylisse' and then proceeds to have him betray and sell you out, only to get killed by the ones he was selling you out to, all within 5 freaking minutes and still expects us to take the story seriously, I'm damn right justified in tearing the plot a new one.

[Hawk]

On principle, I don't post in threads discussing about Awakening and it's impact on the series and what it bodes for the current direction of it since most FE veterans intimidate me, but I kinda need to put my thoughts into this topic.

Awakening.... Well, it's a very flawed game. The plot is mediocre (But I wouldn't call it the lowest of the low in terms of bad video game stories), the gameplay is unbalanced (But in a fun way), etc...

But to be completely honest, I had a lot of fun with it. I had fun doing supports and liking particular casts of characters (Despite some bad writing there and there). I had fun wrecking enemies to smithereens, And I totally had fun ending the adventure through the endgame chapter.

I know I may sound like a broken record, but if you told me about Fire Emblem series years ago, I would have no fucking idea what's it about and it's gameplay. And if you told me about perma-death, I would have been completely turned off since I don't play a lot of strategy RPG's. And really, it wasn't until the buzz of FE:A that came in very months back that I became interested in it. I didn't have a 3DS at the time and I pushed myself to buy it back on Summer. And tell ya what, the addition of Casual mode was a good thing for me since I didn't wanna be stressed to keep my units from dying. And now that I've finished it and am familiar with the mechanics, I can cave in to Classic mode.

It was Awakening itself that got me to this game series, and it was Awakening itself that made me aware of this site and join with ya guys and especially trying out the older games as well. =)

In short, Awakening got me into this series. And for that, I'm forever grateful.

Sorry if I sounded like a drama queen or something, but I just wanted to post my feelings towards this topic. Again, I'm sorry for holding Awakening to a high regard and I'm sorry that I didn't get the chance to play Fire Emblem for the first time since 10 years ago.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Krisars

[Snowy_One]

Because...

1) It's geared towards the casual market.

2) It tries to make things easier/convenient.

3) It functions differently from the previous titles.

4) It's new.

5) It's probably a lot harder to tier due to the parenting system.

Hence all the hate.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

5) It's probably a lot harder to tier due to the parenting system.

On the contrary, its WAY to easy to Tier because the game is a big joke

[Skynstein]

Since we're talking within the context of Fire Emblem, we have Marth, Marth again, Seliph (kind of), Leif, Eirika, Ephraim, Elincia.

So yeah, I'd say not walking into an obvious trap was the smart thing to do regardless of hindsight.

And the Heirach 'plot' deserves to be ripped apart because Fire Emblem is full of traitors who had their intentions, their backstories, their motivations explained in detail. One great example is Orson and even the random villagers in FE9 that sell out Elincia because of their racism towards Laguz got better development, So when FE13 introduces a character as a 'long time ally of Ylisse' and then proceeds to have him betray and sell you out, only to get killed by the ones he was selling you out to, all within 5 freaking minutes and still expects us to take the story seriously, I'm damn right justified in tearing the plot a new one.

Can't speak for the others since I've played only Awakening, but about the hierarch... You do have a point. Thing is, should we be expecting such detailed storytelling from a videogame? I believe if the game was only the war between Ylisse and Plegia, these story elements could've been expanded upon. Maybe the real flaw is that the game progresses too fast for its story to be told in reasonable detail?

[RJWalker]

Can't speak for the others since I've played only Awakening, but about the hierarch... You do have a point. Thing is, should we be expecting such detailed storytelling from a videogame? I believe if the game was only the war between Ylisse and Plegia, these story elements could've been expanded upon. Maybe the real flaw is that the game progresses too fast for its story to be told in reasonable detail?

Why shouldn't we? And we already have good examples of similar characters.

I've said this many times and I'll repeat it here. FE13 tries to take everything great from previous titles and shoves it all in one game while completely failing to understand why those things worked in the previous games in the first place, leaving us with the mess that we have.

[Edith]

Wait, there's actually hate for Awakening? I thought there were only a few of us here!

In all seriousness though, it all boils down to opinions. People like to voice those said opinions and make them heard. Besides, there are other games in the series that receive much more hate than Awakening...

[shadykid]

Because...

1) It's geared towards the casual market.

2) It tries to make things easier/convenient.

3) It functions differently from the previous titles.

4) It's new.

5) It's probably a lot harder to tier due to the parenting system.

Hence all the hate.

you just had to get one shot in, didn't you

[LumInvader]

Those with a kinky foot fetish may not like this game... or so I've been told.

[Slyfox]

I personally found the story to be average but nowhere near bad. I think the story suffered from having too few chapters to contain everything they were trying to show, perhaps Intelligent Systems bit off more than they could chew.

They main problem that I believe Awakening has is that there are so many story elements and characters that are introduced, yet never receive any further development. Side characters that are interesting are forgotten for the rest of the story, aside from the main cast.

Now for various pros and cons I have on my mind, omitting a lot of smaller details (such as the hierophant (or adviser) in chapter 7):

- Valm was almost complete filler, instead the chapters could have been used to polish the rest of the story.

- Little character exposition aside from the main characters.

- Skipping most of the important battles in favor of small skirmishes. "Oh, when did Ylisstol get sacked? Surely it was quite the fight to defend the capital city." Nope. Instead, we will watch our heroes take a hike.

- Spotpass Paralogues. Ditch them, or come up with some good explanations as to exactly how they happened and make it impact the story.

- Many supports are yawn worthy.

- Other things.

+ Interesting, three-dimensional main characters.

+ You being evil plot twist. It has been done many times before, but it is still interesting to see. Reminds me of Revan from KotOR, my favorite game.

+ The music. So good I even imported the soundtrack a while back.

+ Gameplay. I think most people agree that the gameplay is a lot of fun.

+ Some supports are really interesting.

+ Valm is an interesting setting despite being filler.

+ The game looks stunningly beautiful.

+ Other things.

Awakening was my introduction to Fire Emblem (aside from SSB, which doesn't count) and is one of my favorite games. Despite it's many flaws, I really enjoyed the story too.

And on topic, the more popular something gets, the more people start to hate on it. I've certainly done similar things. So I wouldn't say it's Awakening that is the problem, but the attention it gets.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Slyfox

[Loki Laufeyson]

Those with a kinky foot fetish may not like this game... or so I've been told.

Oh dude, thanks for that one. It made my night. *looooool*

- Paralogues. Ditch them, or come up with some good explanations as to exactly how they happened and make it impact the story.

I like Paralogues cuz they are like Gaiden chapters. But yes, theres some flaws with them. The Non-Child related ones really dont make sense. Donnel's barely make sense and the Anna ones just smell funny. Not to mention the one with the idiot villagers. What do these have to do with the plot? Oh right, nothing. Theres not even cool ways to unlock them unlike FE7. D: The Kid ones are ok but really contrived most of the time. The Spotpass Paralogues are kinda cheap despite being fun to play. Gangrel isnt dead? Come on....Emmeryn? Oh man...While that one may get you in the feels the first time through, it gets really lame after that. Oh well. Priam's is a Big Lipped Alligator Moment thats fun as all hell.

Valm arc was meh. But at least Walhart exists. Hes hilarious.

[RJWalker]

I think it's hilarious when you can finish Chapter 9 and instead of continuing on to Chapter 10, you can go dick around in skrimished and paralogues, go save Anna or something.

In FE8 which also had a World Map, you were forced to go straight to the next chapter when the situation called for it.

But here, since you can just do anything you want to inbetween Emmeryn's death and the 'esacpe' from the Plegians... Yeah, that completely break immersion.

[Slyfox]

I like Paralogues cuz they are like Gaiden chapters. But yes, theres some flaws with them. The Non-Child related ones really dont make sense. Donnel's barely make sense and the Anna ones just smell funny. Not to mention the one with the idiot villagers. What do these have to do with the plot? Oh right, nothing. Theres not even cool ways to unlock them unlike FE7. D: The Kid ones are ok but really contrived most of the time. The Spotpass Paralogues are kinda cheap despite being fun to play. Gangrel isnt dead? Come on....Emmeryn? Oh man...While that one may get you in the feels the first time through, it gets really lame after that. Oh well. Priam's is a Big Lipped Alligator Moment thats fun as all hell.

Valm arc was meh. But at least Walhart exists. Hes hilarious.

Oops, I didn't specify. I meant the spotpass paralogues, as I quite enjoyed the others. I'll go change that right away.

Also, I really like Emmeryn. A couple debatable decisions actually adds to her character, even if said decisions weren't the best. Some might argue that she is too much of a good person, that it's unrealistic. Yet Emmeryn has made some mistakes, and that was in character, believable. At least it is to me. Intelligent Systems could have done something more with her though, seeing as many people didn't care for her.

[ButteredToast]

Not to mention the endless amounts of reek boxes to over-train your characters to the point of ridiculousness.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Oops, I didn't specify. I meant the spotpass paralogues, as I quite enjoyed the others. I'll go change that right away.

Also, I really like Emmeryn. A couple debatable decisions actually adds to her character, even if said decisions weren't the best. Some might argue that she is too much of a good person, that it's unrealistic. Yet Emmeryn has made some mistakes, and that was in character, believable. At least it is to me. Intelligent Systems could have done something more with her though, seeing as many people didn't care for her.

Ahh. My bad. But its cool. I think Emmeryn would have been received a bit better had she not had a Paralogue. :/ Kinda defeats the point of her sacrifice. (which was a bit iffy to begin with)

[BrightBow]

Oops, I didn't specify. I meant the spotpass paralogues, as I quite enjoyed the others. I'll go change that right away.

Also, I really like Emmeryn. A couple debatable decisions actually adds to her character, even if said decisions weren't the best. Some might argue that she is too much of a good person, that it's unrealistic. Yet Emmeryn has made some mistakes, and that was in character, believable. At least it is to me. Intelligent Systems could have done something more with her though, seeing as many people didn't care for her.

The problem with that is that the story doesn't acknowledge Emmeryn as a flawed individual.

Instead she is treated like a saint and the best human being ever without her doing anything to deserve this reputation but acting like a lemming.

Even her introduction scene has everyone gushing about her, despite that all we are told about her is that she is "a symbol" and "a reminder" of stuff that happened 1000 years ago. The story never cares about what she actually does.

Edited October 22, 2013 by BrightBow

[Sasori]

I think people dislike awakening because it has some pretty big flaws, despite its strengths.

The story was perhaps a little overambitious with 3 (or 4) bad guys and none of them got the attention that was needed to make their stories good. I think that once IS realised this might be their last game they tried to throw all their story idea's in the game and hoped for the best. Emmeryn, Gangrel, Walhart and Grima could all use some extra screentime, but couldn't get them because the game has to jump from one plot point to the other every few chapters.

On the gameplay side there is the pair-up mechanic which can be a little bit unbalanced. It was there first try on this mechanic so I don't think its weird that it has some flaws. I expect it to be more balanced in the next game.

[Light-Heart]

Hype Backlash. A show/piece of media gets a lot of love and attention and hailed as either really good or the Second Coming, there will be the knot of naysayers who yell and scream about how horrible said media is. Its happened with anything ever that has ever been popular. Its amplified within works that are/were originally rather niche. Old school fans will scream about how something has changed or brought new fans into it and how much that sucks. Hype Aversion also exists with this title. People will get turned off from ever trying it if something gets TOO much love. (See Breaking Bad for details. I know plenty of people who never want to touch that show because of the fapping in its general direction)

Whats hilarious about Awakening is that originally, (at least when the game was localized) people were all about it. "Oh this is so cool! Neat! I can do this! Look at this guy, hes funny! That pegknight is so cute!" and then the same people turn around months later going "Oh this sucks so bad. I hate that damned pegknight. Ugh this mechanic i previously jizzed over really sucks the life out of the game, blah!' Its hard to figure out which ones are genuine opinions and which are just Hype Backlash.

The plot of Awakening has a lot of issues. Some of them are just so bloody stupid, its funny. But i dont give a snot about the story. I play the game for....its gameplay

^ Hmm all of this.

Edited October 22, 2013 by glenncoco

[TheBigDipper]

>Awakening gets some little hate and people start arguing

>Shadow Dragon is hated by 80% of the community and no one cares

[Robert Stewart]

>Awakening gets some little hate and people start arguing

>Shadow Dragon is hated by 80% of the community and no one cares

That's because Shadow Dragon is garbage