Why is there so much hate for Awakening?

[RJWalker]

It's a vocal minority trying to suppress a vast majority.

TC, weren't you around when the Wii was at the height of its popularity? It's the same thing happening here.

Considering that at least 3 out of 5 of those games are well liked, I'd say it's a legitimate counterpoint.

No, it's about progress. When a newer game takes out a good feature just because, you can complain about it. The fact taht the first 5 games didn't have the feature is irrelevant.

[Gregosa]

The no supports in FE11 is a VERY legitimate complaint and it's one that I can't ignore, no matter how much I love the game. Bringing up the fact that FE1-5 didn't have support conversations is not a counterpoint either.)

I should have clarified what I meant to say. By support I meant just the talking. I didn't know Shadow Dragon had a hidden support(is that true?) years after the fact.

[RJWalker]

No, I think everyone understood what you meant.

What I mean to say is that when a series adds a great feature then takes it out for no good reason, you can't counter the complaints by saying the earliest games didn't have said feature. What happened to progress?

[LuigiandShadowGirl]

I thought Awakening was more loved than hated...Everywhere I look on the internet, people say Awakening was a wonderful game. People probably hate it now because it became more popular and it attracted more fans. Some are annoying

Anyway, Awakening was the game that got me into the series, and I'll definitely give other games in the series a go (instead of the newer fans that have only played this game and praise it like it's the best game ever). I actually really enjoyed the game, it was quite fun. The story could have been much better, but it isn't the worst out there.

Edited November 5, 2013 by LuigiandShadowGirl

[RJWalker]

I thought Awakening was more loved than hated...Everywhere I look on the internet, people say Awakening was a wonderful game. People probably hate it now because it became more popular and it attracted more fans.

Or maybe, just maybe, it has some very real flaws that get lost in the hype.

[Vennobennu]

^Don't even bother, people have been saying the same thing for pages now without the slightest justification. Some have even started repeating themselves.

[LuxSpes]

Or maybe, just maybe, it has some very real flaws that get lost in the hype.

Just to know: Do you think that FEA is a bad game or just a good game with flaws? I personally think the second, since I acknowledge that there is room to improve, yet I love the game to death since it really sucked me in.

Because while I can agree that the story is weak, I don't think that any FE games(PoR, RD, SD, FEA) that I played had a particularly good story, PoR having maybe the strongest but still being really average. Despite that flaw, I ended up playing and replaying the game in particular for the character interactions.

Which brings me to another point. Without even looking at the DLC convos, I ended loving and caring for most of the cast just through in-game actions and support, so I wouldn't say Awakening has the worst cast.(I personally find SD's cast to be very forgettable on the other hand)

Edited November 5, 2013 by LuxSpes

[RJWalker]

^Don't even bother, people have been saying the same thing for pages now without the slightest justification. Some have even started repeating themselves.

I'm just going to laugh if you seriously think no one has justified their complaints. Try harder next time.

Just to know: Do you think that FEA is a bad game or just a good game with flaws? I personally think the second, since I acknowledge that there is room to improve, yet I love the game to death since it really sucked me in.

And while I can agree that the story is weak, I don't think that any FE games(PoR, RD, SD, FEA) that I played had a particularly good story, PoR having maybe the strongest but still being really average.

As for the characters, without even looking at the DLC convo, I ended loving and caring for most of the cast just through in-game actions and support, so I wouldn't say Awakening has the worst cast.(I personally find SD's cast to be very forgettable on the other hand)

I like the game. It's gameplay is fun in all of it's unbalanced glory. The story is atrocious though. While all Fire Emblem games have had cliched stories, it's what they do with those cliches that matter and most FE games take those cliches and craft a very compelling story. FE13, in my opinion, fails miserably at this.

As for the characters, I wrote a long (and incredibly biased) post on Shadow Dragon but I do think I made a lot of fair points. The post is here. To put it simply, I'd rather have Shadow Dragon's underdeveloped cast rather than Awakening's animu bullshit.

[Rewjeo]

I would say that Awakening is a good game, but a bad Fire Emblem game.

I absolutely agree that SD's cast is better than Awakening's. I can at least hypothesize about what might be going on with them, especially with things like what happens to the Wolfguard in FE12 giving me a basis for it. FE13's characters just suck and I'm stuck with that.

[LuxSpes]

I'm just going to laugh if you seriously think no one has justified their complaints. Try harder next time.

I like the game. It's gameplay is fun in all of it's unbalanced glory. The story is atrocious though. While all Fire Emblem games have had cliched stories, it's what they do with those cliches that matter and most FE games take those cliches and craft a very compelling story. FE13, in my opinion, fails miserably at this.

As for the characters, I wrote a long (and incredibly biased) post on Shadow Dragon but I do think I made a lot of fair points. The post is here. To put it simply, I'd rather have Shadow Dragon's underdeveloped cast rather than Awakening's animu bullshit.

Ok, I do agree that it's an atrocious patchwork of stories. I don't think I could really defend that.

As for the characters, the problem I have with SD's cast is that I can barely remember them. They didn't have any unique traits that made them stick for me. While I felt invested in the plea of the characters of the other games, I just didn't have any connection with these one.

And while I'm probably not the best person to speak about animu BS(since I happen to love anime and can tolerate cheesy things), I feel that they at least gave the character an immediate unique trait right on their introduction. Then, I felt the support or in-game dialog did a good job of adding more layers to their personalities. Yarne initially looks just like a scared bunny, but through the support with other characters, you see him try to change that and show bravery by putting himself in danger so that he can save someone else. Maribelle looks like a stuck-up noble, but her support shows that she's more than that.

There is one animu BS that I'm starting to get tire of however and it's the power of the bonds. Nearly every mainstream anime has for central theme that bonds between friends are stronger than everything. While I was glad that my Avatar survived to return to its family, I was a bit peeved by the fact that it happened due to the power of friendship.

But this is more a complaint toward the story than toward the characters.

[RJWalker]

Also, it's quite sad that Chrom's quest of 'awakening' the Falchion is rendered worthless since there is ZERO negative consequence to the sacrifice ending while allowing to Chrom to seal Grima will only create problems.

[LuxSpes]

And to go back on the positive, I must say that one of the main reason I love this game so much is the soundtrack. People can say all they want about how overrated it is, but 'Don't speak her name!' was able to make me feel sad about the death of a character that barely got any development.

I think the only songs I find average in the soundtrack are the Enemy phase battle theme. Otherwise, they all have their charm and fit the mood of the scene where they're used perfectly.

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

I would say that Awakening is a good game, but a bad Fire Emblem game.

I absolutely agree that SD's cast is better than Awakening's. I can at least hypothesize about what might be going on with them, especially with things like what happens to the Wolfguard in FE12 giving me a basis for it. FE13's characters just suck and I'm stuck with that.

Well, and at least SD's sketchy characters fit FE's overall sketchy worldbuilding, where you get basically a "vibe" from a country that this kingdom here is kind of fake Greece and this one over here is the Holy Roman Empire, sort of, but basically there are all these blanks to fill in with the player's imagination. It's just not the super-detailed worldbuilding/mythology/history some other game series offer.

FE13 features these very, very talky characters who don't leave much to the imagination (IMO) against the usual sketchy backdrop. If anything, the world of Ylisse/Valm is even less convincing as an actual functioning political world than, well, anything else in the franchise. Including Magvel. It just feels half-baked and weird to me, and out of keeping with everything that came before it... especially since some of the other FE verses had a fair amount of thought put into how the political world and religious world functioned. That to me is a big part of the "it doesn't feel like Fire Emblem" dissonance I had while playing.

I mean, I thought Virion was a surprisingly deep character but politically his whole role just turned out not to matter even though he's the one inviting you to wreck Valm to start with. Huh? And then the characters I don't like (most of Gen 1 + Yarne) I can't do anything with in terms of making them more palatable to me because they just ARE. I'll talk a one-note cutie like Norne or guys like the Wolfguard any day over Cordelia, Kellam, Donnel, etc.

[RJWalker]

I think the game really suffers from a lack of boss conversations and random homes that expand on the plot rather than give you items. Seems really minor but we see how much of difference it can make in FE13.

[Vennobennu]

I'm just going to laugh if you seriously think no one has justified their complaints. Try harder next time.

Nah, I was referring to the guy just above you talking about hipsters.

Edit: And I'd like to add, playing through Fe11 has given me new appreciation for the writing. Its story is overall pretty simple, but the way it's told really makes it; Marth actually has a dynamic and interesting personality (coming to terms with his vengeful hatred, or what he perceives to be his role in life, for example). Still a shame that so many characters say nothing except in their death quote.

What FE11 does have is well done, and I'd take that over a big muddle, which is what Awakening's story feels like to me.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Vennobennu

[Loki Laufeyson]

Well, and at least SD's sketchy characters fit FE's overall sketchy worldbuilding, where you get basically a "vibe" from a country that this kingdom here is kind of fake Greece and this one over here is the Holy Roman Empire, sort of, but basically there are all these blanks to fill in with the player's imagination. It's just not the super-detailed worldbuilding/mythology/history some other game series offer.

FE13 features these very, very talky characters who don't leave much to the imagination (IMO) against the usual sketchy backdrop. If anything, the world of Ylisse/Valm is even less convincing as an actual functioning political world than, well, anything else in the franchise. Including Magvel. It just feels half-baked and weird to me, and out of keeping with everything that came before it... especially since some of the other FE verses had a fair amount of thought put into how the political world and religious world functioned. That to me is a big part of the "it doesn't feel like Fire Emblem" dissonance I had while playing.

I mean, I thought Virion was a surprisingly deep character but politically his whole role just turned out not to matter even though he's the one inviting you to wreck Valm to start with. Huh? And then the characters I don't like (most of Gen 1 + Yarne) I can't do anything with in terms of making them more palatable to me because they just ARE. I'll talk a one-note cutie like Norne or guys like the Wolfguard any day over Cordelia, Kellam, Donnel, etc.

Thats a pretty good point to be honest. In all the other FEs ive played, there was a lot of drama involving politics (even if it was somewhat simpler than it could be). FE7 deals with the Lycian League being actually quite segregated. Lyn's story involves inheritance issues and succession. Eliwood and Hector's stories focus on the conflict with Laus and later, Bern and the Black Fang's influence on it. King Desmond and his wife are shown squabbling over succession. Pent acts independently from Etruria, etc. FE6 deals with Zephiel's hold on Bern. FE8 also involves political struggles despite the story being very much "Defeat Big Evil Thing." We see how Grado's actions affect the other nations. We are even treated to a small subplot about the merchants in Carcino and their power struggles. Jehanne's influence on the rest of Magvel is touched on and some succession thrown in for good measure. Orson's taking of Renais also speaks some political volumes. The Tellius games go into great detail about politics.

Awakening's political struggles are boiled down to this:

Plegian King Does Not Like Exalt.

Valmese Guy Tries To Conquer In Order to Snuff Out Grimleal.

Ok...? Seriously, after Valm, any pretense of political struggles are never heard from again. There was SO MUCH potential in Awakening's world and cast to really build on political stuff, but really, it never happens. Even Regna Ferox gets nothing. We are treated with the idea that the Khans are actually in opposition to each other, but it turns out its just a game of who gets to rule that year. Wat. Virion's role in the story could have really been something. Like, its probably the biggest They Wasted A Perfectly Good Plot ive encountered in that game.

[Missile]

It's probably my favorite FE on handheld system but this episode can be really dangerous for the future of FE since it was sold very well (In Nintendo's and IS' mind, it means they can keep going like that), but there are some huge flaws in this game and we can see them in the next episodes unfortunately :

- The marriage system which is badly implemented unlike FE4, it's just bad fan service.

- The maps are BEAUTIFUL but also bland as hell, it forces the player to play in a brainless way. It's actually the best strategy in Lunatic mode.

- Pair up system is awesome but like marriage system it's badly implemented. it forces the player to not use multiples units but a more powerful one with A LOT of haxx (evasion bonus, dual attack...)

- The Avatar is more broken than every cheat code in GTA V. He can destroy lunatic mode like I was in FE8, it's just silly...

- And also some minors flaws like the skill system which is not really interesting ingame or the reclassing system which makes the Avatar more broken.

Everyone knows this but the real problem is that these flaws can be found again in the next FEs with high probalities. I suppose that's why there is so much hate with this game, maybe it will be the precursor of a new generation of FE, in the bad way.

[Sunwoo]

I think one (of the several) things that bothered me about Awakening is how the whole "political" aspect is not very believable. After Chrom defeats Gangrel in chapter 11, it appears as if he (and Basilio and Flavia) merely took reparations from Plegia and never gave them another thought. Apparently none of them even knew who took control of Plegia as monarch after Gangrel was defeated until chapter 13, when they had to meet with Validar. This is ... just stupid not only as part of the story but just in common sense. Why would you leave the country that you just defeated that also was responsible for your former exalt's death to its own devices, without even bothering to appoint a king you know won't fuck things over? Same logic in Valm as well.

[LuigiandShadowGirl]

Nah, I was referring to the guy just above you talking about hipsters.

Edit: And I'd like to add, playing through Fe11 has given me new appreciation for the writing. Its story is overall pretty simple, but the way it's told really makes it; Marth actually has a dynamic and interesting personality (coming to terms with his vengeful hatred, or what he perceives to be his role in life, for example). Still a shame that so many characters say nothing except in their death quote.

What FE11 does have is well done, and I'd take that over a big muddle, which is what Awakening's story feels like to me.

Fine, I basically just agree with everyone else. I just repeated what most people said in a different way. I should have just said that at first, I guess.

[NinjaMonkey]

Why would you leave the country that you just defeated that also was responsible for your former exalt's death to its own devices, without even bothering to appoint a king you know won't fuck things over?

So? Crimea didn't have any say in the matter when Pelleas (who, supposedly, was Ashnard's son) became King of Daein, so why should Ylisse have any say about Validar?

Edited November 6, 2013 by NinjaMonkey

[Florete]

So? Crimea didn't have any say in the matter when Pelleas (who, supposedly, was Ashnard's son) became King of Daein, so why should Ylisse have any say about Validar?

The difference is that Crimea didn't just leave Daein alone, they gave it to Begnion, and you might recall that causing certain "things" to happen. Most notably, part 1.

[Sunwoo]

Pretty much what Red Fox said. Even if it caused part 1 of Radiant Dawn to happen, Crimea and Begnion didn't just go "lol fuck dealing with Daein we're going back home". Crimea gave Begnion control of Daein, so it wasn't exactly leaving a defeated country alone.

[Dark Sage]

Seriously, even George fucking Bush knew better than that

That's right, Chrom is more incompetent than George Bush

[Mighty Kamina]

Seriously, even George fucking Bush knew better than that

That's right, Chrom is more incompetent than George Bush

Totally believable. I mean the game says that Chrom is a good leader, but just read his dialogue and you get the impression that he is a very weak leader who would fail at everything he tries if it weren't for the Avatar.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Kamina

[RJWalker]

Nah, I was referring to the guy just above you talking about hipsters.

Edit: And I'd like to add, playing through Fe11 has given me new appreciation for the writing. Its story is overall pretty simple, but the way it's told really makes it; Marth actually has a dynamic and interesting personality (coming to terms with his vengeful hatred, or what he perceives to be his role in life, for example). Still a shame that so many characters say nothing except in their death quote.

What FE11 does have is well done, and I'd take that over a big muddle, which is what Awakening's story feels like to me.

Then I apolgise for snapping at you.