Periodic Table of Elements ~Game Thread~ Game Over

[scorri]

Votals, boring scorri style

BBM (2): Manix, kirsche
Poly (4): SB, Refa, BBM, shmobum
Grass (2): Eury, Sangyul

Eury(1): Grass

Sangyul(1): Mei

shmobum(2): Poly, PMP

Not Voting: Zell

[Grace]

and this merely confirms i am bad at keeping track of votes

mei's vote on boron is completely flawed, and I definitely don't agree with it on the grounds stated, but that doesn't say a thing about mei's alignment (woo can't read newbie alignments)

[Zkirsche]

@kirsche: Why does the fact that it's BBM make it so much worse?

I have explained this multiple times now with regards to BBM's play in AM/PM. Read my ISO for more.

really don't help because the smug douchebag tone in this almost made me lose my cool again.

I held myself back, I assure you. I took every ounce of my being to delete the <3 xoxo I originally had at the end.

your playstyle has changed and mine could have as well. trying to meta read someone can be potentially flawed because of that.

I think this is rather defensive as well, I don't see why Manix is suddenly backing off a little on his push. It's liek he's trying to appear like a reasonable person to excuse pushing for something. It's difficult to explain, but it doesn't rub me well.

I want Prims/Manix/Kirsche to take into account the games where I was town and displayed very similar behaviour, such as C9++ or going further back, Trainwreck

I wasn't in either of these games so I'm obviosuly not going to base your meta around a game which I haven't read. I don't really plan to read it either because I am way too lazy for that and even if I did it'd all be out of context.

Nextly, Kirsche finding the order in which I posted things scummy is ??? even if he didn't take the timestamps into account. My wall took a while to write up and I saw Grass's response, but didn't want to make my post even longer, so I talked about Grass in the next post. Even disregarding that, considering I was voting Grass over SB, then I don't understand what the point of saying that my reasoning for finding SB suspicious is weaker than my reasoning for finding Grass suspicious. And seriously, this: "Also, the way he made those posts looks like: "Man SB is really bad" *realises he forgot about GB* "Oh but GB is still worse because -reasons-"." is the epitome of pre-judging someone as scum. He can't seriously believe that only scum would talk about a secondary read before a primary one.

I said that the stuff on SB was worse, i.e. it was actually a stronger case.

Scum would obviously forget about their primary reads more than town because town are more paranoid and push harder on those that they find scum. I don't even really interpret that second post as a response to GB's post that cut yours. It just says "GB is still worse because -reasons-" right after you go on about SB.

If you look at my #121 I attack Poly then immediately clarify that I still find you worse. Prims also needs to reread my #121, my suspicion on Poly comes from that and pretty much what SB said.

so was your vote literally only on me because i thought you were scum

It was a pretty terrible vote. "Prims is bad at meta ##vote" is super dumb.

sb's posts feel weird honestly; after isoskimming all I really see are:
- poly suspicion
- bbm defense

As someone who lives in the same timezone as him this is a perfectly fine set of things to have posted about.

I keep to myself. My opinion shouldn't matter to you.

At this point, it's just AM/PM again, this is the exact same stance as Cowbell from AM/PM so tbh people should stop voting as it's probably a common opinion.

seems universally disliked by everyone right now

I wouldn't really call this a reason to find someone scummy.

Try harder, meibum >_>

Ouch.

Meibum is your BBM vote solely for voting you early on, out of interest?

GB's defence is ok but he's done a lot of scummy stuff and I don't think he's done much scumhunting recently, I'm actually agreeing more and more with what Poly said about Refa the longer the game goes on because Refa has been really under the radar.

BBM > GB >> Refa=Poly

This is the part in question that is an associative read.

Again, I don't really see how that's associative. It's more like "You reminded me of Snoop and I recall BBM was similar there". He's not saying that if one of you is scum the other probably is by association. |I don't even see why association before a flip is scummy in any case, it could be a perfectly valid observation, but then if they get shot before they say it then the observation could be lost for good. I recall someone telling me that it's just setting up mislynches, but surely it depends on the validity of the association. In any case:

So clearly his read on me is influencing whatever the fuck his read is on BBM.

Isn't it the other way around, his read on you influenced his read on BBM?

[Zkirsche]

stop voting

THEM for it, and it alone. (Poly and Prims, I'm looking at you)

[Zkirsche]

Speaking of going under the radar Zell is the worst offender of this. He doesn't even have a scumread. Update:

BBM > GB > Zell >> Poly = Refa

He said he was busy with work so I'll give him some benefit of the doubt but he still needs to participate.

[Grace]

I think this is rather defensive as well, I don't see why Manix is suddenly backing off a little on his push. It's liek he's trying to appear like a reasonable person to excuse pushing for something. It's difficult to explain, but it doesn't rub me well.

i'm not though?

like, how is that backing off? if anything, it's attacking him further for pushing a meta point that might have changed. i sure as hell don't excuse me pushing for scum!BBM, no way

As someone who lives in the same timezone as him this is a perfectly fine set of things to have posted about.

it wasn't just about the amount of content, but the overall post tone. his latest post didn't help at all, fwiw

[Grace]

furthermore, that's a boatload of lynch priorities. see point against BBM re "too any suspicions", apply it to you

i also don't like how you agree with poly's case against refa... but poly is a scumread. like, it doesn't make a lot of sense (because if they can convince you on a case, chances are they probably aren't as scummy as you may think)

[Grace]

going to sleep now. don't have too much fun while i'm sleeping

[Zkirsche]

i'm not though?

like, how is that backing off? if anything, it's attacking him further for pushing a meta point that might have changed. i sure as hell don't excuse me pushing for scum!BBM, no way

You're right I completely misread it.

it wasn't just about the amount of content, but the overall post tone. his latest post didn't help at all, fwiw

furthermore, that's a boatload of lynch priorities. see point against BBM re "too any suspicions", apply it to you

I thought your criticism of BBM stems off of the fact that he's overcompensating because a criticism of him was that he had one read early on.

i also don't like how you agree with poly's case against refa... but poly is a scumread.

I can find someone scummy but that doesn't mean I have to disregard anything they say. The points against both Poly and Refa make sense and I'm acknowledging that.

[Refa]

That was a bit of a test to see who'd jump and assume I was scummy. Thank you for being rational.

##Unvote: BigBadMarshmallow

##Vote: Polydeuces

Poly seemed to jump to conclusions rather quickly.

How is Poly worse than say, Prims in that regard?

The fact they did it exactly in sync is kind of worrying, yeah. I'm not sure if they're terrible scumbuddies or if something just went really wrong? Shmobum looks especially bad due to the reactionary Poly vote, although I don't really think they're scum together based on that? Could still be Scum/Town though. Doubt they'd be scum with BBM either.

I agree that they're probably not both scumbuddies with BBM, seems rather unlikely that they'd bus him at the same time. However, is there any particular reason that you don't think that they're both town? It just seems wierd that you analyzed all other possibilities except that one.

Isn't it the other way around, his read on you influenced his read on BBM?

I said that (like, looking at the portion you specifically quoted)? I'm just not quite sure what his read on BBM is, because he's stated that his read on me is influencing his read on BBM, yet he finds BBM townie because of that. It just...really confuses me how the interactions between me and BBM led him to that conclusion. Like, I don't know if I'm missing something, but FMPOV there's a logical leap here.

[BBM]

I think the "scum forget who they're pushing" point isn't a good one because I forget why I find people scummy at least as often when I'm town as I do when I'm scum (though here I just posted things in a different order). I don't understand why scum would have any extra trouble remembering who they're pushing. Town have to remember who they find scummy, scum have to remember who they're pretending they find scummy. Don't see it as a huge difference.

My vote wasn't "Prims is bad at meta". He was using one half of a set of past games to assess my play without paying any attention to the other half, even though he was around for both of the other ones. That's a scummy way to push a lynch. BTW I still want Manix to elaborate more on this- all he said about C9++ was that I was more reactionary in AM/PM than C9++ even though that's not true.

Meibum and Shmobum are probably not both scum because I don't think they'd buddy together so obviously if they were. Also while I know Scorri doesn't set alignments and stuff, I think that she'd re-roll if two new players were both scum. As for individually- Mei's reads are mostly bad. I hope at least the one on me is a joke? You know that at the very beginning of the game, people just put down random votes on whomever right? The Boron one is just untrue, as she pointed out, and the Troll one makes no sense- how is being busy with work a townie thing? However, I do sort of agree with what she (and Shmo) said about Poly. Considering the levels of elaborate WIFOM logic he often goes into, jumping on Shmobum seems really easy. Also, earlier when he found me SUPER SCUMMY for temporarily quitting the thread, he said it still wasn't enough to deter him from voting Refa, yet for some reason Mei and Shmo were?

Prims's jump was also kind of meh. Prims/Poly, what are your feelings on Shmo now that he outed that it was a reaction test?

Can't remember if I said this last night or not, but Troll came in and I get that he was tired, but the one paragraph he did post was sort of low-priority and not really necessary.

[Grassbridger]

GB's vote on eury is also guilty of being very defensive, looks kind of like an OMGUS. You're free to find someone's logic bad and criticise it to defend yourself, but bad logic isn't scummy by itself. Surely what Poly's done is worse than just voting someone for poor reasoning? Aren't you guilty of doing the same thing earlier?

Hey Kirsche, this is the only point where you actually talk about anything that I did that you think is scummy, yet suddenly I've "done lots of scummy things". In fact, the time before this that you mentioned me, I hadn't done anything particularly scummy. Care to elaborate?

[Zkirsche]

Don't see it as a huge difference.

There's a difference in motivation, but I guess I can drop it. It's not like it's core to my argument or anything.

all he said about C9++ was that I was more reactionary in AM/PM than C9++ even though that's not true.

Isn't this just subjective though?

My vote wasn't "Prims is bad at meta".

What you described is what I call being bad at meta. Aka not using the info from games that he's played and tunnelvisioning on just one of them.

BBM > GB >>> Zell > Poly=Refa

[Zkirsche]

GB's vote on eury is also guilty of being very defensive, looks kind of like an OMGUS. You're free to find someone's logic bad and criticise it to defend yourself, but bad logic isn't scummy by itself. Surely what Poly's done is worse than just voting someone for poor reasoning? Aren't you guilty of doing the same thing earlier?

Lots of scummy things is an exaggeration.

You haven't really scumhunted at all in a while, and making that post doesn't help things. Instead of choosing to attack you get all defensive.

[MRDRHAWK]

fuck it, I don't care

##Unvote

##Vote: Self

Not even bothering to claim because fuck it, y'all are still going to vote me anyway.

[Refa]

fuck it, I don't care

##Unvote

##Vote: Self

Not even bothering to claim because fuck it, y'all are still going to vote me anyway.

don't do this :(

Self voting just ends up hurting town in the end (if that is your alignment), see One Shot.

Actually considering you're at L-3, which isn't that close to a hammer, this seems like an overreaction.

[Grassbridger]

Lots of scummy things is an exaggeration.

You haven't really scumhunted at all in a while, and making that post doesn't help things. Instead of choosing to attack you get all defensive.

I have no idea why I'm your second scumread, since all you've said about me is that I've made an OMGUSy vote and haven't scumhunted in "a while" (less than 24 hours, btw, during which I may have been around but haven't really had free time to think hard about the game, which I said last night). I've explained why my vote wasn't an OMGUS. If you feel like I should have "attacked" in that post, well, I read up on the thread in my 10 minutes before class and posted about the one thing that caught my eye, and I'm making this post from *in* class.

BBM asked me for an updated read on Poly yesterday that I didn't have a chance to give... I was finding him better for his two longish content posts until his out-of-the-blue self-vote. I don't understand that at all, but it's super anti-town and I don't get it. Poly, if you want to stop playing, that's what subs are for...

That said, it makes me think he's scum. Not sure about voting him and putting him at L-1 due to oops!hammer, but I guess he's already self-voted...

##Unvote

##Vote: Polydeuces until someone tells me that hammer too soon would be bad

[Grassbridger]

*tells me WHY hammer too soon would be bad

[Zkirsche]

Ugh, now discussion will dry up, like usual, or at least stagnate into "Why u do this, Poly?" There was really no need to do that, you could've probably turned the lynch on GB or someone.

##Unvote

##Vote: Polydeuces

Hammer shut up. This sucks.

@GB Being overdefensive and not scumhunting seems like a good set of reasons to have you as a secondary scumread.

[Eurykins]

Woot, managed to get an awesome amount of sleep, time to re-read back into people's ISO's and pull out some reads.

@Poly Don't self-hammer. I did that in One-Shot and I regretted it after seeing something I hadn't right as the post/hammer went through. :/

BBM asked me for an updated read on Poly yesterday that I didn't have a chance to give... I was finding him better for his two longish content posts until his out-of-the-blue self-vote. I don't understand that at all, but it's super anti-town and I don't get it. Poly, if you want to stop playing, that's what subs are for...

That said, it makes me think he's scum. Not sure about voting him and putting him at L-1 due to oops!hammer, but I guess he's already self-voted...

##Unvote

##Vote: Polydeuces until someone tells me WHY hammer too soon would be bad

...What? This vote smells horribly of scum. Townies should know by now, after my mess-up in One-Shot, that cutting discussions short never helps town. The fact that, "Oh, someone self-voted, so may as well throw my vote down as well" seems extremely opportunistic, just like Refa's scum hammer in the first game I played. Bad vibes are bad---

(And Kirsche's post happened. So falls the hammer.)

[Grassbridger]

eh, technically we don't have to shut up until mods confirm that that is really hammer, as you posted in uh, some game recently--CYOR? (Yeah, in response to Strege's reaction to your reaction test) although I acknowledge that that is different because it was vig (well, not vig, but it looked like a vig)

mods can you confirm that your "hammer required" number will always be accurate?

kirsche is pinging me a little for his end-of-day but it's probably just because he was attacking me and once I get over that I expect he'll be mostly null

rereads coming after flip though, I'm insomniac so the day's just getting started for me. (New players: this means I can post during the night but you can't unless your role says so)

[Elieson]

@grass, no

Hammer shuttap

[Grassbridger]

...What? This vote smells horribly of scum. Townies should know by now, after my mess-up in One-Shot, that cutting discussions short never helps town. The fact that, "Oh, someone self-voted, so may as well throw my vote down as well" seems extremely opportunistic, just like Refa's scum hammer in the first game I played. Bad vibes are bad---

(And Kirsche's post happened. So falls the hammer.)

Go read AM/PM (I think), and the day I was lynched in CYOR. Any time someone does something so scummy as to be irreversible (such as getting scanned by an unCC'd cop, or getting hooked on a night with no kill and no other way of stopping the kill) you don't really get much more discussion after that point. I think this falls in that category. And if you think I'm scummy for that you should find Kirsche scummier for actually hammering.

My vote should probably read as null to very slightly town, pending flip:

-if Poly is scum, then scum actually want the day to drag on in order to derail discussion on anyone who will be alive tomorrow, but also want to make sure to bus for towncred. Town wants to get on to the next day ASAP, though.

-If poly is town, then scum want to stay off the wagon of someone who's done something so incredibly scummy, because they know others will ML them. Town still wants to get on to the next day ASAP.

Tl;dr I don't see a situation where scum would want to hammer Poly but town wouldn't, and I do see situations where scum wouldn't want to hammer and town would. (And I expect we'll be in the latter with scum!poly.) So scumreading my vote is silly, as is the rest of your read on me.

[Elieson]

What? That element must be tarnished! Let's Barium!!!

Naw, you saw his self-vote. Let him Barium self.

Poly

[Elieson]

What? That element must be tarnished! Let's Barium!!!

Naw, you saw his self-vote. Let him Barium self.