Healer Mafia - D6 ends on Dec. 15 at 8:00 PM HST

[Percivalé]

I don't really see what benefit there is in hard-bussing your buddy and then swerving with "I think he's just the guy everyone wagoned D1;" it doesn't seem like what Prims does when he's scum. He usually either sticks to bussing or defending his scumbuddies and not in between, at least from what I've seen of his scum meta. We haven't had flips yet so that might change, but that's what I think atm.

##Unvote

##Vote: Objection

BBM vote is going nowhere and I don't want to stick with it anymore. I didn't like Objection's listpost all that much, and aside from that he hasn't really been memorable & his SB read felt forced. It kinda felt like a throw-in and then he voted Venno, the reasons for it sounding echoish.

[Elieson]

Argghhhh all these townreads >.<

I guess Kay's response to my initial vote is OK but her vote on Poly still feels weak and the reasoning she gave just now is too semantic for my tastes. Saying something is questionable and off definitely indicates a suspicion, and considering he backed it up with a vote, how is it waffly? And then in the next sentence she qualifies her Venno suspicion with "kinda" which is in the same line.

For some reason I thought this was only the 24 hour mark. So looking at the current wagons- I read Prims's reasoning for the Objection vote again; I guess I could go for that. I'll reread SB in the morning and come to a judgement there. Shinori has like one post (#87) where he actually states suspicions, after that it's all just elaborating when people ask him questions. Whether or not I'd consolidate here depends on the post he promised a little while back I suppose.

Other than that the only suspicion I have atm is Vhaltz.

Venno has done some pretty strange things, and IMO it'd be weird not to be a little waffly, given his controversial actions. There are times when waffly is a fair-to-be state of mind, and I think that it's fine regarding Venno's current D1 play.

Here for like two minutes gotta rush to practicals.

##Unvote: Scorri

##Vote: Grass

Want to see something by you by the time I get back.

Also Eclipse didn't typo I'm doublevoter

Any particular reason /why/ you're voting for grass?

Shinori said lots of stuff, including a fairly odd and unexplained scumread on grass

can you elaborate on this? also lol Gregory House

[Percivalé]

Vhaltz looked like he was voting Grass for being inactive which is Bad at this point of D1, and has since changed his vote, but that felt like a weird move especially since Grass is nowhere in his priority list:

Prims > BBM > Shinori > Eury > Rest > Refa/Kirsche > SB

[Elieson]

Vhaltz looked like he was voting Grass for being inactive which is Bad at this point of D1, and has since changed his vote, but that felt like a weird move especially since Grass is nowhere in his priority list:

That's primarily the reason why i'm poking him about it. It's weird that he doesn't even find grass in his top 4 scumreads, and yet felt that he's worthy of a vote.

[Vhaltz]

Wifi signal in my classroom sucks so I have to get out during the small breaks to refresh the thread and check for updates.

Vote on Grass was the only thing I could manage to do when I woke up this morning before commuting to uni. I had already figured the Scorri case was not going to anywhere close to lynching today so the only useful thing I could think of doing with my vote without getting rereads done first was to put pressure on an inactive player to get content out of them (claiming doublevoter at that time was also a way to increase the pressure). The vote was meant to appear serious but was never serious as such, explaining this train of thought as I voted obviously would've rendered the vote useless. I meant to mention this during lunchtime but I got distracted by BBM and Prims being a bitch to read properly.

@BBM Vote is on Prims because I honestly think there's more chances of him flipping scum. That I can't seem to form an entirely solid case doesn't mean I'm uncertain that he's scum. Plus there's still a while left before people start deadline spamposting so it's better to push the point now that people are reading somewhat calmly to see if anybody agrees. I think it's pretty clear that my consolidation vote is pretty much guaranteed to land on you if there's no interest in a Prims lynch so there's no point in rushing that anyway.

[MRDRHAWK]

All the meta usage is kinda bugging me - especially in relation to BBM - but Shinori's last line in his big post weirded me out even moreso. Was that attempting to activate a role of something, or was it just a PR on his part? Or, alternately, is he being a smartass? Even with the whole softclaim that his role is related to Dr. House, it seems like a bit much right now. In general, his content has seemed forced IMO, and he's not putting up anything in the way of relevant reads until his next post. A couple of questions for Shinori:

-Why are you still on Grass as being potentially scum when he's only got three content posts to read?

-What's with the sarcastic response to Eury's latest post, and why would you do stupid things to 'get the ball rolling', anyways?

-Where did the Refa bit come from? Just from thinking SB is likely town? And why not respond to his case on Shin, either, despite the fact that you quoted it?

Vhaltz' initial Grass vote seems hella detached too, but I've only really seen the one post, and maybe he left Grass of his priority list because he was voting him; ergo, it was for later on. Besides, he did switch to Prims later on, who was on his priority list, so maybe the Grass vote was just a placeholder until he read through more, so going off that logic, I'd look elsewhere

I'd like to hear SB's reasons for dropping his Refa vote for Objection before giving my thoughts on him. Schniezy (oh yeah, I'm nicknaming him this now) seems to be going all over the place so far, and as such I'm not getting a solid read on him as to whether he's scum or town. I do agree with his current vote, though. I'll get to Objection in a bit.

Eury feels more or less null IMO, but the reasoning for her low content blows enough to see why people would read her as potential scum. I've been sick before during a mafia and tried using it to justify low content, and guess what happened? I got lynched for it since it was shit reasoning. And then after saying as such, you then made one more quick post on Shinori then left. Seems like something to keep an eye on for later.

Refa's not pinging me as likely scum, but I'm seeing that others are putting him on their priority lists. Care to explain why exactly he's pinging you, guys?

Objection's content pisses me off enough to put him as one of my higher scumreads. Namely, the fact that there's very little - only one "real" post - and the bare-bones amount of content he does have is kinda lackluster, giving weird reads then voting Venno for doing essentially the same thing he's doing now. What?

Shin's low content amount feels like he's trying to fly under the radar, but he's far from the only one with few content posts. Kirsche, Venno & the aforementioned Grass are also guilty of low content, so I'd like to see more from them. Kirsche's content so far makes sense, though, Venno's reading more as newb!town, and Grass doesn't really feel off to me. Shin, meanwhile, has gone through three different votes, and his recent vote on Schniezy makes little sense. Schniezy actually noted that he attacked Refa before, and while Shin made some good points, it didn't feel like he was too sure of his own reasoning.

As for where my current vote sits, I feel like Kay's reasoning is weird, but not enough to keep my vote on her right now. I've got bad vibes from others right now... namely, Shinori.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

My current priority is Shinori > Objection >>>> Shin > Eury > Everyone else.

[Vhaltz]

That I can't seem to form an entirely solid case doesn't mean I'm uncertain that he's scum.

BBM is being really picky with his counterarguments so on this matter I have to admit that I do waffle on my reads to a certain degree every now and then (specially scumreads) and that might be reflected somewhere on my posts when I do stream of consciousness, but if I get a proper readswitch that isn't just silly second-guessing I'd state it as such.

[Vhaltz]

Poly, what do you think about BBM and Prims?

[The Objection!]

Alright, first of all I would like to apologize for not being a good player like I'm supposed to be. But let me explain stuff from my POV.

First of all, yes I didn't have much reads at the time, which is why I asked some questions, it's not like I'm not putting effort or anything... My read on Vennu isn't because he was doing the prodvote, it's because he's actually around and is just prodding instead of doing actual reads as opposed to scorri who hasn't posted at all at the time.

i think the "self-awareness" is more likely to come from scum nervous about being called out #ArmchairPsychology101

Must I go through this every game I'm in? I've been called out for being a hypocrite multiple times in my mafia history and I've learned to detect my own hypocrisy and mention it so people wouldn't use it against me.

Vennobennu's content looks reasonable atm so I'm leaving him alone for now. I don't know what to think about SB currently, but I'll get to that some other time.

Vhaltz don't have an ISO yet btw.

Believe me, I tried to post some scumreads but my current mental state is preventing me from thinking clearly (I've spent at least 5 hours rereading this thread back and forth). Scumread me for it, but I can't really force content right now. I may ask a sub later, but we'll see...

[MRDRHAWK]

Poly, what do you think about BBM and Prims?

I'm not really getting the BBM wagon, honestly. Nothing he's done has been pinging me, and I mentioned my dislike of his 'scum meta' being a driving factor on his wagon already. The only thing that's concerning me is his seeming lack of reads, but he could just be trying to play very carefully.

Prims' Miller claim bugs me - ED1 claims tend to do that - but otherwise, he's been playing pretty well IMO. Though, I would like to know why he doesn't like the idea of a Shinori lynch.

[Percivalé]

Alright, first of all I would like to apologize for not being a good player like I'm supposed to be.

please don't do this

[Eurykins]

I'm trying to get this whole little rp of House thing going on here. I guess I'm doing it a little wrong. Nice empty post though.

If "Empty post" = pointing out something that stuck out to me and left a bad gut feeling in me (thus justifying my vote even moreso), then sure, it is.

1. The ball was already rolling, and you don't always have to vote to get a ball rolling anyway. Pretty sure I got attention relatively quickly by doing nothing.

2. What can I say, I like smart ass remarks.

3. Damn, most scummy thing in the world. Made a few jokes. *Holds out hands* Lock me up, throw away the key. Ya caught me.

4. Am I doing this house thing okay? I couldn't tell.

1. The ONLY thing that had posted prior to your 2~3 useless starting posts was the Venn self-vote. I fail to see how 'the ball was already rolling' at that point. It makes it seem like you were letting other people start the rolling for you, as opposed to contributing to it yourself.

2. Doesn't make your responses feel any better.

3. Jokes are fine. Jokes that don't help progress the thread are just a waste of breath and time and posting space (only exception I see/figure = RVS posts).

4. Dunno- as far as I know from watching the entire House series, he was actually productive in his methods, rather than just being snide and doing absolutely nothing.

You seem to be one to talk about posts being productive. This entire time you could have been trying to find real scum you've been tunneling onto me the entire time with no real reasons or statements on any other players so far in the game. I mean unless you count post #73.

My vote/posts reflects upon who I deem is the top priority atm. Your snide remarks only sends off even more bad vibes in terms of sounding quite passive-aggressive in your defense (in response to me focusing my attention on you).

It's hard to tell that this was one of Eury's earlier posts because most of her posts have the same general argument when involving me. P.S. You should keep repeating the same general thing and keep your vote in the same spot the entire time, I'm sure eventually the same reasoning over and over again will get people to think I'm scum. By the way, have I ever told you definition of insanity? (1)

And gosh darn it I knew we were perfect for each other. Your comment about Bizz is basically the same thing I said about her. Great minds think so alike. So tell me again, why did you list my comment towards Bizz as being bad when you said basically the same thing? (2) I mean, I feel that "Bizz is being Bizz." And "And you're being Levy. Obv SK." Are pretty much the same general type of statement.

Oh yeah, glad to see someone agree's with me on saying Grass seemed defensive, yet this same person also thinks I'm scum apparently, while agreeing with me on multiple things. Huh. (3)

1. I call it being consistent with my thoughts/reads. You've done nothing to change them, so naturally they'd stay the same. Logic.

2. Bizz being Bizz = she's posting her usual amount/frequency and thus nothing sticks out as being unusual. You, however- sure, you stated that, but your previous actions/posts have said little to none in terms of being productive. AKA. Bizz is doing her usual shinanegans, while you're posting fairly empty posts and assisting little in progress overall. Though you are donating a healthy dose of sarcasm and snide comments- I'll give you that.

3. I've agreed with people before on several points- it doesn't keep them from being scummy/having bad vibes. Your point?

(Internet at school's derping out hard, so simplifying formatting responses to Kirsche's post)

This is basically admitting to forcing yourself to have reads.

It is true that I posted in response to the realier quote, yes. My thoughts/reads were as they were at the time.

You are voting Shinori for being snide? Really?

I don't particularly care for any of the logic you've used on him. You don't like his GB vote even though your read on GB is the same for the same reasons. You don't like him for not making an RVS vote (which is super graspy reasoning imo) and because he is snide (which is typical Shinori).

Can you comment on anyone else? How do you feel about SB/BBM and their respective wagons?

Being snide in itself is one thing, but he was also posting more frequently with little to no actual content/progress being made with them. Filler posts to make him look/seem productive in the thread- that's what I got from them, and I don't like it at all.

SB's wagon: I think he was a bit eager to toss out a semi-legit vote on Venn (due to Venn's 'empty vote'), and his comments regarding Kay's coaching seemed like a foot-in-mouth situation (didn't consider what he was saying/typing fully until after he was done posting it). The wagon on him seemed very opportunistic, imo, which didn't seem to harbor the strongest drive until he jumped off of Kay's case moved to voting Refa (partially based on Refa posting the votals...?). And then his last post regarding "his reasons for unvoting Refa" being unsaid until he claims or something- idk. Unless he chooses to elaborate further on his point, I don't think I trust his comment/standings currently.

BBM's wagon: His early posting on Shinori was RVS, so his vote on Kay (in reaction to Kay's vot on him) seemed justified. He made sense in some of his points against Bizz's thoughts (regarding scum hunting ED1), and overall, he seems to be prompting a lot of questioning/progress for the thread. I have no reason to support a wagon against BBM at this time.

Eury reads a little better now, I'm kind of bugged that he addressed a few qualms that people had about him (her? I'll check everybody's genders properly when night comes) but completely ignored mine, it feels like he completely skipped reading my posts. Either way he elaborated on his issues with Shinori and they don't really amount to a case I can agree with, but I guess I can see why he would've prioritized Shinori over Objection back in his reads post as town. My point about his scumpainting wording still stands, though, so if I had to lynch among him and townreads at the end of D1 I'd still pick him first.

Her = correct.

And I apparently mis-quoted in another post/reply box, so I failed to give a response in my other post. Apologies.

(I'm assuming this is the post you were referring to- please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

Third is Eury. His only post is a brief reads post, the kind of post that town tends to be happy with and that is useful for scum as appeasement, plus it includes some reads that feel forced and useless null reads that pad it up. Prims already commented on this in a way that implies that Eury probably does this often or something, and I'm completely void of meta on anybody on the site other than SB, BBM and Prims really so idk about that point. Either way, my biggest issue with this post isn't really just that it's a brief reads post with possible appeasement intent, but the way all of the reads are listed. Everything that isn't a null read is worded awkwardly, there's frequent use of the word "weird" in contexts that appear to imply scumminess, which reads like painting people as scummy without having to explain why X or Y they did is scummy.

I was almost 100% sure this was scum when he voted Shinori, because he mentioned Shin among the "contentless" towards the end of the post, and voting that over the ones he thought were "weird" in a scummy way was really scummy. Then I noticed that these were two different people. Blegh.

Either way I'm pretty sure that at the time Shinori was the second major wagon after SB*, so the vote is still very convenient. Specially considering that there's no sense of priority and added reasoning of why Shinori over the rest (his opinion on Objection amounted to pretty much the same, so why Shinori over him specifically?).

*(correct me if I'm wrong, I'm used to having votecounts instead of having to manually track votes)

It's true that, at the time that I posted, I was harboring mostly null-reads. Not helpful, I know. But to me, null-reads are still reads in themselves, isolating them from 'leaning-scum' and 'leaning-town' vibes from other people. The vote on Shinori earlier was based purely on what I was reading/feeling from him- whether he was considered an early wagon or not was irrelevant to me. Above all others, he's been pulling a scum-gut read from me- very similar to the feeling I had when I tagged him for it in One-shot.

Priority atm: Shinori > SB > Everyone else.

[charlie_]

SB's odd reluctance to address his focus on Kay over Polydeuces,

I picked up something I hoping meant that he was town, but I pretty much figured out that the point is null at this stage. My Refa opinion change was also changed by something similar and outing it doesn't help town as much as it hurts it.

1. His first two three posts were, quite frankly, useless. No RVS vote incorporated into any one of them, either, which seemed a bit derpy (nothing to start the ball rolling).

2. Votes Grass and incorporates "Logic" into it (I was guessing it was his half-trolling/joking RVS post, but later he says it's actually a 'semi-serious' vote).

3. Garbles about Poly's sig and Bizz.

4. His comment to my vote- "You gotta do better than that, Eury"- struck me as both arrogant and condescending, along with his latest comment/post that I quoted earlier.

WRT 1, Is not voting in RVS scummy? Usually it's what people say that accompany the votes that cause discussion over the votes themselves. Don't heavily disagree with the other points, I guess. I don't really agree with 4 along the lines of arrogance being scummy but dismissing a vote on without really answering it is scummy.

I don't really like Shinori much. His vote on me pretty much came from after I voted Objection which he counted as an empty unvote, despite the fact that I already gave reasons. He noticed Prims prodded me about it, so they were obviously there. If you're going to vote for me, at least read my posts. And is it impossible that I just forgot to change my vote over, considering you took a while to vote earlygame yourself? If you're trying to push the buddying route, then look at the argument people have been using against me all game. The rest of his content seemed kind of sparse.

Prims claiming Miller as a null point Vhaltz imo and trying to look into it just wifom (and I didn't even remember the miller thing so eh) and I think it's a weird case to be pushing tbh. Outing as Mayor is null as far as play goes.

Objection's last post doesn't please me with no opinions whatsoever and self-decapitation. Vote is staying there.

[Eurykins]

Ugh. Internet DC's 4+ times and lost two of my posts/replies already. Hate college internet. =___=''

Eury feels more or less null IMO, but the reasoning for her low content blows enough to see why people would read her as potential scum. I've been sick before during a mafia and tried using it to justify low content, and guess what happened? I got lynched for it since it was shit reasoning. And then after saying as such, you then made one more quick post on Shinori then left. Seems like something to keep an eye on for later.

I understand that. I just literally could not stay up to post since bloody eye + headache = my vision was blurred to hell (and I naturally have bad vision as it is), so typing was nearly impossible the other night. I've also done what I can to take care of my stomach issue, which is mostly resolved atm. So my posting should be able to pick up to speed as needed.

WRT 1, Is not voting in RVS scummy? Usually it's what people say that accompany the votes that cause discussion over the votes themselves. Don't heavily disagree with the other points, I guess. I don't really agree with 4 along the lines of arrogance being scummy but dismissing a vote on without really answering it is scummy.

It's not necessarily scummy in itself, I'll admit. But his reactions/postings since then seems to cast his posting/lack of meaningful content in a really bad light, which is making me question him (and his words/actions) from the start.

[Shinori]

I never said Prims/SB were buddies and I highly doubt that. I just thought the interaction was weird.

[MRDRHAWK]

Objection's last post doesn't please me with no opinions whatsoever and self-decapitation. Vote is staying there.

You mean self-depreciation?

I understand that. I just literally could not stay up to post since bloody eye + headache = my vision was blurred to hell (and I naturally have bad vision as it is), so typing was nearly impossible the other night. I've also done what I can to take care of my stomach issue, which is mostly resolved atm. So my posting should be able to pick up to speed as needed.

Logical enough. It's just that you can't fall back on that reasoning the whole time if your content is low in quantity; I'm not saying shun your health to post, but try and make some more content posts if you're able.

[charlie_]

And what do you have to say about my response?

[Shin]

Shin's low content amount feels like he's trying to fly under the radar, but he's far from the only one with few content posts. Kirsche, Venno & the aforementioned Grass are also guilty of low content, so I'd like to see more from them. Kirsche's content so far makes sense, though, Venno's reading more as newb!town, and Grass doesn't really feel off to me. Shin, meanwhile, has gone through three different votes, and his recent vote on Schniezy makes little sense. Schniezy actually noted that he attacked Refa before, and while Shin made some good points, it didn't feel like he was too sure of his own reasoning.

Do remember I am fabulously British and my work schedules means that I'm around more in the evenings. I don't quite get what you mean about unsure of my own reasoning, mind clearing that up for me?

I wouldn't rely too hard on meta when it comes to BBM, he gets rather defensive regardless of alignment. Still, I do agree that he's lacking any major reads. I'm also baffled that like half the posts in the thread aren't from BBM. I'm undecided, but I feel he deserves a little more attention.

Returning to the SB thing, it's amazing how the Refa-SB interactions have suddenly ended, because apparently SB saw something he liked. The mystery behind this is off-putting, I can't really see a role related way that SB would initially vote Refa then unvote him on D1.

Objection's posts are pretty horrible, although from past games this is no indication of alignment. Venno, I swapped because you weren't saying anything, and I felt that SB is someone worth going after more.

[charlie_]

@poly, yes typing is hard

[charlie_]

It's amazing how Shin called me out for not replying to votes on me but then ignores my response to him. I've said I'm not answering why I dropped my Refa suspicion, it's role related (I'm not a daycop if that's what you're thinking) and I refuse to divulge more than that.

[Eurykins]

Logical enough. It's just that you can't fall back on that reasoning the whole time if your content is low in quantity; I'm not saying shun your health to post, but try and make some more content posts if you're able.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's why I'm trying to stay on top of things, now that one of the two problems have been dealt with. Vision's clearing up a little, but still a bit cloudy/murky.

[Shin]

It is indeed amazing! Although you can probably forgive me for not entirely trusting a rather bold statement from someone I don't entirely trust. Your other comment wasn't really much more than a sarcastic remark about scumhunting, that doesn't really need any answer.

SB, your Kay case on coaching was weak. You end up coaching Vhaltz yourself, then saying you don't really like his line of logic - which I'll give you. Your next vote is on Objection for essentially him being worthless. Whilst I agree he's added virtually nothing to the game, hardlining a vote on him and refusing to budge seems awfully closed. Why not go "scumhunting"?

[MRDRHAWK]

Do remember I am fabulously British and my work schedules means that I'm around more in the evenings. I don't quite get what you mean about unsure of my own reasoning, mind clearing that up for me?

Understandable schedule-wise. As for your read, your summary seemed to over-simplify the points you were trying to make, and in doing so made it seem very general and not very sensible, which is why I felt like your reasons were unclear even after explaining them, because if felt like they went one way then another entirely towards the end.

[charlie_]

So basically you refused to acknowledge it because I'm right? That's good to know.

We've already gone over the Kay thing several hundred times and I admitted that I was wrong. You're beating a dead horse at this point. And I am scumhunting, I think Objection is scummy for lacking opinions when he shows up (in his last post he made it even worse by retracting what little he did have) and the opinions he did have were really weak and he's done nothing that makes me think he's town. I've also had opinions on other players. Your "hardlining a vote on him" point doesn't mean a thing, I'm just continuing to vote for the same person because I think that he's scummy, and that's a bad reason for finding me suspicious.

[Vhaltz]

Just want to get a votecount done because having no recent ones to look at with deadline coming up feels so very odd to me.

Votal thing

Eurykins (1) - kirsche
Kay (1) - BBM
Objection! (3) - Prims, SB, Bizz
Polydeuces (1) - Kay
Prims (3) - Grassbridger, Vhaltz
SB (4) - Elieson, scorri, Shin, Shinori
Shinori (4) - Eurykins, Refa, Vennobennu, Polydeuces
Vennobennu (1) - Objection!

Feel tempted to instavote BBM because his wagon is suddenly completely gone for some reason despite so many people voicing dislike on him, plus he seems to have parked his vote on Kay in addition to everything else I already pointed out about him. I'll hold out a little longer though, I still want to know what people think of Prims.

Dunno what to think of the Objection wagon since it feels like a lurker lynch, I guess I'd pick him over SB if I absolutely had to but I'd prefer lynches on Prims/BBM/Shinori, or scorri but I've kinda lost hope on that one. Skimmed the latest Eury posts and I'd really appreciate it if she calmed down a bit.

Now I'm off to reread, I'll be around for the next bunch of hours (like 4 or so) but then I'll have to go to sleep and most likely won't be around for deadline.