Shadow Mir Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I never said it was easy. Yes, she is not the easiest to train or most rewarding Est, but I don't think she's terrible. And why not?? She's the second hardest character to train in the entire franchise (first goes to Wendy)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Not hard, just tedious. You don't even need to abuse; Keep them out of any fight where they might die (easy enough with 1-2 range) and use bait and switch to feed them kills. Simples! A character hard to train would be any given Laguz, who gain pitiful exp transformed and have no PP untransformed. Or any given scrub on NM/Awakening Lunatic where you can't really afford to dick around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 ZEISS! He's adorable~! Honorable mention to Pelleas for wielding a Special Snowflake magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) Not hard, just tedious. You don't even need to abuse; Keep them out of any fight where they might die (easy enough with 1-2 range) and use bait and switch to feed them kills. Simples! A character hard to train would be any given Laguz, who gain pitiful exp transformed and have no PP untransformed. Or any given scrub on NM/Awakening Lunatic where you can't really afford to dick around. Which doesn't help any when I have to spoonfeed you kills at far from reliable hit rates because you kick ye olde bucket if you're so much as even looked at funny. At least Laguz can take hits... Edited December 24, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Which doesn't help any when I have to spoonfeed you kills at far from reliable hit rates because you kick ye olde bucket if you're so much as even looked at funny. At least Laguz can take hits... Sophia tanks staves due to fe6 staves going after low def not res I don't see Lyre. Or Fiona doing that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I never said it was easy. Yes, she is not the easiest to train or most rewarding Est, but I don't think she's terrible. She may become a good unit in the end and have better growths than the other Dark Mages, but the question is if it compensates. Looking at their average stats page, Sophia only beats Ray in mag (she's got 29 while he's got 28) and luck (she's got 10.6, he's got 10.05). In growths, she beats Ray in mag, luck, def, HP and res, but the difference becomes minimal by the end. She's only slightly better than him. Add this to the fact that Ray is much more easier to train than Sophia, and there is no reason to use her at all, unless you have a preference (which I also do, but idk how to train her '_'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 If you miss the first time, go pacifist turtle and try again next phase. That is the mindset needed to train Sophia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 If you miss the first time, go pacifist turtle and try again next phase. That is the mindset needed to train Sophia. Good luck with that 30% hit, though. Also, it's not like you can protect and baby Sophia for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 It's only for a couple of chapters; once her supports kick in, it makes a lot of difference. As long as you have enough supplies and patience you can protect her for quite a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) She may become a good unit in the end and have better growths than the other Dark Mages, but the question is if it compensates. Looking at their average stats page, Sophia only beats Ray in mag (she's got 29 while he's got 28) and luck (she's got 10.6, he's got 10.05). In growths, she beats Ray in mag, luck, def, HP and res, but the difference becomes minimal by the end. She's only slightly better than him. Add this to the fact that Ray is much more easier to train than Sophia, and there is no reason to use her at all, unless you have a preference (which I also do, but idk how to train her '_'). If you miss the first time, go pacifist turtle and try again next phase. That is the mindset needed to train Sophia. And this, my friends, is Sophia's number one problem - not only is training her incredibly tedious, the payoff's not even anywhere near worth the tedium of having to put with "MISS!" every time you turn around. It's only for a couple of chapters; once her supports kick in, it makes a lot of difference. As long as you have enough supplies and patience you can protect her for quite a long time. I WOULD just go "lol gba supports" but that ain't fun. Her only really viable support is with a sniper (There's also Fae, but she can only attack 30 times). Edited December 25, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Sophia is awesome, haters. :< Also I forgot to mention I particularly like Nino. Even moreso since she saved me a turn in a draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Lol, I thought when we are discussing shit like this everything about logic and efficiency should thrown outside the window Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Lol, I thought when we are discussing shit like this everything about logic and efficiency should thrown outside the window Its Serenes Forest. Logic has to apply to everything because we are flaming raging elitists who put fictional people in a series down because we as a whole lack patience to take our time to have fun Edited December 25, 2013 by Jedi Fon Fabre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Its Serenes Forest. Logic has to apply to everything because we are flaming raging elitists who put fictional people in a series down because we as a whole lack patience to take our time to have fun Yeah and LTC is all what matters. Can't be 2 fast 2 furious enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Yeah and LTC is all what matters. Can't be 2 fast 2 furious enough. I find casuals hate more on LTC than the other way around. But whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Well LTCers tend to give off an elitist vibe at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I find casuals hate more on LTC than the other way around. But whatever. I for my part was joking. I just find it hilarious how people who enjoy both casual and Ltc are so rare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 My favorite Ests are Pellulz and Prince Kurth simply because they save turns among other Ests , well not really, I mean they're my fave because of Pelleas' personality and also being the only Dark Magic user in the game, and Kurth because he really has potential. Dayum, just give him Paragon+Provoke+Wrath+Resolve and watch him own things as soon as thunder sages in 4-E-1 hit him, it's awesome and a nice investment. Also, Pelleas Flaring Izuka is the best thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I WOULD just go "lol gba supports" but that ain't fun. Her only really viable support is with a sniper (There's also Fae, but she can only attack 30 times).Are you saying that Igrene and Fae are worse than Sophia? If Sophia is in play, they might as well be. At the pace one should go when using Sophia, supports are actually viable (and having three people stuck to her to shield her from melee attackers isn't impractical).For a numerical example, by chapter 16x Sophia should have B Igrene, C Fa, C Ray. Assuming level 11, she has 104 hit with Flux. That's 60 hit on the merc, 70+ on everything else bar the bishops. It is a lot of effort for a unit that will never become good barring major blessing, but not difficult once you know what you are doing. TL;dr One does not assume efficiency when using Sophia; because in efficiency Sophia is not in play. We're not tiering her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Casuals who hate LTC are hated by LTCers who are hated by Casuals who hate because... dat circle! I've personally found Sophia to be probably not worth it, although she can kinda function if you put the effort in. If we're counting all late game level levelled joiners as Ests, the likes of FE11!Est and Corple are up there. Corple kinda has his own XP pool and his low starting stats don't really impact his performance. Est on the other hand starts pulling her weight with a little (but probably not terribly efficient) investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I find casuals hate more on LTC than the other way around. But whatever. I have no problem with LTCers and I find drafting quite fun sometimes. I just dislike how everything, including efficiency, is based on an unit's mov and how that unit can guarantee my 3 turn win strategy. I find the community's concept of efficiency very archaic and orthodox. Can Kurthnaga be counted as an Est? I think so, but that other wiki contradicts with what I think... so, screw that other wiki. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Are you saying that Igrene and Fae are worse than Sophia? If Sophia is in play, they might as well be. At the pace one should go when using Sophia, supports are actually viable (and having three people stuck to her to shield her from melee attackers isn't impractical). For a numerical example, by chapter 16x Sophia should have B Igrene, C Fa, C Ray. Assuming level 11, she has 104 hit with Flux. That's 60 hit on the merc, 70+ on everything else bar the bishops. It is a lot of effort for a unit that will never become good barring major blessing, but not difficult once you know what you are doing. TL;dr One does not assume efficiency when using Sophia; because in efficiency Sophia is not in play. We're not tiering her. So in other words, making her usable requires me to slow down to a pace which referring to as a "snail's pace" would be too kind. AND I have to give her supports that include a 1+1 (lmfao). Fuck that noise. And of course I'm not saying Fae and Igrene are worse than Sophia. Edited December 25, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 what's wrong with trying to make sophia better slowing your pace isn't such a big deal when you're not doing LTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) what's wrong with trying to make sophia better slowing your pace isn't such a big deal when you're not doing LTC Slowing down isn't so bad. But this guy makes it sound like she's easier to use than laguz units in RD are, which I find absolutely hilarious. And it doesn't help that I definitely don't find her to make up for all the TLC I needed to shower her with just to get her there - IF I even get her there rather than ragequitting because she's that damn hard to work with. Edited December 25, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 She doesn't have wait for an even worse then fe9 meter to be able to attack. But in the end Levant that's fine you don't use her. There are people who do like to use her for fun. You can stop trying to argue now considering at this point you are just doing it to aggrovate people at this point . You seem to be under the impression that everyone has to agree with your way of playing or ltc despite you not even being a ltc player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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