Inception Mafia

[MRDRHAWK]

fuck it

##Vote: Strege

too pissy to read through the thread right now (being woken up at 4 AM by a fire alarm that's annoying as fuck is not fun, and oversleeping so you miss class is even less fun) but let's just go with this again

[Grassbridger]

Ugh the time at which phases end is basically the worst for me

Anyway. I'm not entirely clear on why the number of kills dropped from 2 to 0 last night. Let's see:

-Refa claimed BPV which got hit

-Strege has claimed compulsive vig but nothing about how many shots he has

-Quote claimed hooked last night but also forgot-to-input-action

I want to hear Strege claim his action last night before I put down a vote. I had a townread on Quote so I'm hesitant to believe that that hook stopped a kill.

Regarding Refa, he could still be scum with BPV, especially given two claimed vigs. My general feeling on him is that I've had some tone issues with what he's said. Doing a full reread now.

[Grassbridger]

When I said "full reread" I meant "Refa's ISO"

Ok so here in #436 Refa asks for opinions on me. Pushing a case is one thing, but it comes fairly early in phase and on a weak case ("low content and weak votes on D1"). I explained in #466 why that bothered me. (Manix also mentioned it in #484.) It came way too early, on a weak/manufactured case, and I hadn't even been online to respond to his case yet. It felt like he was trying to manufacture a wagon. His response to me in #475 is bad because he basically twists my words and misreps my reads in his last bullet point. In #488 he acknowledges some of my points and makes some overall nonsensical point about when in the game my scumreads are coming from. Eventually he backs off me with an empty unvote.

Thing that's not related to me: At one point he says he "doesn't see [sB] doing rereads as scum." Weird. I don't know what to make of it, I can't even put a mentality on that. Seems kind of scummy? Refa had earlier admitted to slacking off promised rereads on kirsche and Quote (I think), so the fact that rereading is townie and not rereading is scummy (in his mind) seems bad. FMPOV, as a townie not putting in a ton of effort right now (sorry), rereads are null. They represent effort, not alignment. So, yeah idk, seems to come more from a scum mindset than town mindset to even think of that.

The rest of it is just a vague tone thing that has come up from time to time, I don't remember specifics, sorry.

Basically I don't think Refa and Strege's claimed roles could both be town with Objection having flipped town as well. I really want to hear Strege's action.

[Percivalé]

There are two parts to my role and I'm honestly not sure to reveal one part of it or to keep it quiet, because I think Refa is town but I don't... know if my role is indicating that Refa is likely scum or that Strege is, and I'm just assuming the latter. Like I said I'm not good at rolespec.

[charlie_]

Was Strege lying about being compulsive or something due to no MYLO today? Maybe he really could be a mafia vigilante or something.

No, it's just that it was obvious that he'd be my main scum read the next day and I don't see who else would benefit from shooting me, considering my other reads were a lot weaker. If Strege was town, scum would have killed someone else so I could tunnel on him.

It's possible they thought you were an unlikely lynch or something. There aren't exactly that many powerful roles in this game if the name flips are anything like the normal roles.

also also my information tonight was literally terrible.

The Usurper wins when I (the Godfather) am dead, they (the Usurper) are alive, and the Russian Mafia wins.

This information still doesn't mean shit, and you haven't done anything this phase. Feels like scum coasting on their fakeclaim, tbh.

##Vote: Euklyd

@j00, do you get to learn if your Ascetic blocks something or not? I'm assuming not but it's possibly what could've stopped it.

Question to everyone: do you all think that multiple roles that stop kills on themselves could co-exist as town? We've got j00, Refa and there might be another one out there. I guess this would also be effected by what you think of Strege.

Poly should out his targets from now on, so that someone has a realistic chance of actually clearing him.

[Percivalé]

I don't get it, you can be compulsive but still have limited shots can't you?? why are people automatically lumping one with the other

[MRDRHAWK]

Night 1: Furet

Night 2: Manix

Night 3: Euk

If anyone got my Role PM on any of these nights, let me know.

[Grassbridger]

Why would you target Manix N2 when you knew how your role worked by then and Manix wanted you and him to target the same person?

[charlie_]

@Poly: No, I mean that you should say who you're targeting ahead of time. So a weak role could prove you.

[MRDRHAWK]

Why would you target Manix N2 when you knew how your role worked by then and Manix wanted you and him to target the same person?

I figured that Manix would be an easy kill target that night, so I wanted to try and trap scum (clearly I failed since nobody claimed to have received my role PM).

Also, Via said she got hooked and Refa's claimed BPV got hit? And these two occurred when no kills managed to work? Hmm...

[Percivalé]

Why has no one claimed to have roleblocked me though? Id assume its a scum roleblocker. So then why has Strege apparently never been roleblocked? Hmmmm

[Percivalé]

Not to mentioned i was roleblocked only after i crumbed.....

Also I've decided I'm not claiming my role unless it's absolutely necessary so lol

[Strege]

Sorry, I've been busy all day and will continue probably to be for a couple of hours. Fullclaim though, since it seems to be necessary: I'm two-shot compulsive vig.

##Vote: Strege

w/e

honestly like I was reading him as scum a little bit but it was mostly because of rolespec and I don't like rolespeccing so that's why I was hesitant to vote him but what has he done to help town anyway.

and I can't tell if he thinks I'm scum or what

I think you're scummy. I don't know how that wasn't clear. I hope you are joking about the "what has he done to help town" because that's applicable to literally everyone in the game.

I'm wondering why the hell he didn't say that he had limited shots, then.

also wow I remember reading the first half of that post, and I guess I just missed the second part.

Why would I offer extra information? Originally I was planning to be secretive so that I might draw blocks, redirects, and kills later in the game after I ran out of firepower. I only claimed after my first shot because I misread my PM and didn't realize I had a second.

boron, because the only benefit scum gets from having shot me is too stop me from tunneling on Strege. if he was town, i would not have been shot. feel free to reread his ISO at your leisure.

If you are town then scum benefits from killing you because you are town. Also, everyone pretty much stopped pushing you and you had promising levels of activity.

I figured that Manix would be an easy kill target that night, so I wanted to try and trap scum (clearly I failed since nobody claimed to have received my role PM).

Also, Via said she got hooked and Refa's claimed BPV got hit? And these two occurred when no kills managed to work? Hmm...

...how would this trap scum? As far as I can tell scum would only say that they targeted Manix if due to fear of a watcher or tracker report, but those possibilities would be unlikely to go away anyway while clearing Manix in the mean time.

[Percivalé]

you think im scummy even after what happened today though?? haha

[Percivalé]

yeah that whole post is

"words about stuff"

"yeah everyone else did the thing too though!" "i think you're scummy" /leaves without voting

[Sunwoo]

Ok so seeing a BPV makes me even more convinced Strege is scum.

##Vote:Strege

Don't like how Boron seems to forget why Refa was finding Strege scummy when I made it a pretty big deal last phase, looking back Boron was pretty on the fence about it taking all phase to determine that she "doesn't think that Strege has scum intent" which reads as unsure. If Strege flips scum I'd look here, especially as the Scorri slot was pretty bad overall.

It's not that I forgot why Refa was finding Strege scummy, but that I wasn't following his logic on how what Refa claimed happened on the previous night made Strege certain scum. Please do not put words in my mouth.

Today is Chinese New Year and fuck I'm going to be busy for most of the afternoon. I might be back during the late evening and I'll try to give reads then, but I don't have time to sit down and make a content post right now.

[Paperblade]

votals

Strege (4): Refa, Levity, kirsche, Poly

Rein (1): j00

Euklyd (1): SB

Voteless Town (5): Strege, Rein, Euklyd, Grass, Boron

It takes 6 to lynch

[Strege]

yeah that whole post is

"words about stuff"

"yeah everyone else did the thing too though!" "i think you're scummy" /leaves without voting

I'm criticizing your so-broad-that-it's-completely-meaningless comment, not deflecting. I'll try to have some more reads and a vote up in a bit.

you think im scummy even after what happened today though?? haha

What happened? I might be zombie-ing right now but I don't understand what happened to make you less suspicious.

[euklyd]

okay so.
I just woke up after ~15 hours of sleep. I think I might be getting sick.

Reading the thread now.

[euklyd]

fuck I'm still really tired

@SB - I'm not exactly happy with the info either. re:today coasting - I said I didn't want to say anything until Strege said what was going on.
Of course that didn't help anything, so I'll say my stuff now.

##vote: Quote
for reasons I laid out yesterday.

Quote ≥ Strege >>* Refa
*(pending a flip); otherwise he's null

If Quote flips scum, I could totally see Refa also being scum.
"Oh fuck, our killer was roleblocked; let's have someone else fake a BPV hit"
- the scumteam
(this is (related to) what I cared about Strege saying stuff for; if Strege did claim that he shot Refa last night then Quote would be obvscum)

Note: even if Refa's BPV was hit, Quote could still be scum, and that's not why I think they're scum, but a possible consequence of them being scum.

Why has no one claimed to have roleblocked me though? Id assume its a scum roleblocker. So then why has Strege apparently never been roleblocked? Hmmmm

Presumably because someone was thinking that it was more likely that you were scum than Strege.
Also I'd say there's no reason for a roleblocker to claim anything, unless they're near lynch. What does concern me is why nobody else claimed roleblocked previously.
pedit: nvm there are vanillas, so that's totally a thing.
anyways I don't see Roleblocker being scum on ~flavorspec~.

you think im scummy even after what happened today though?? haha

Not sure what happened today that makes you obvtown. I'd love to hear it.

Also there's approximately no way in hell I'm voting Strege right now, since that'd be a quickhammer not even 24 hours into the phase.

brb rereading something

[euklyd]

uh fuck

not rereading something right now.

People IRL are telling me to help them with stuff

[Sunwoo]

I had time to read through both Strege's and Rein's ISOs just now. Again, while I feel that Strege's choice of shooting Parrhesia was really bad, I still don't think he's scum. I am not seeing the scum intent in his posts, I'm really not. Unless he does something so bad I'm immediately convinced he's scum, or I see something scummy in his previous posts that I've completely overlooked, I'm not going to vote him.

When I subbed in I had a townread on Rein because I felt that the posts he DID have at that time were well explained and I could see his logic. Maybe it's because he just hasn't been posting that much anymore, but his more recent posts seem rather weak. His Poly vote from last phase was also bad, mostly because he complained about having no wagons and votes someone who didn't even have a lynch. He also waffled a lot on a bunch of other people in that same post, and I'd be interested in hearing what his reads are now. Feeling less good about Rein.

SB is unmemorable and I'm going to have to reread him when I get time to reread again. I need to do the same with Euklyd (because I can't remember much of what he's done aside from Usurper talk) and Quote (who I haven't really been reading closely).

Grass, while I'm glad you finally showed up and gave your opinions on Refa, do you have thoughts on anyone else besides him? You're still not making me feel all that good about you, and it feels like your Refa suspicion is still mostly because of his previous suspicion and case on you, which you feel was so bad it was scummy. The SB thing is the only other issue you mention having with Refa, and you don't explain the "tone" thing except as "vague", so ... ???

you think im scummy even after what happened today though?? haha

Can we seriously not do stuff like this? That "haha" in the end doesn't need to be there, you could have just asked him to explain why he still thinks you're scummy without making it sound like you're laughing in his face, and I'm sorry to call this out but I'm actually kind of mad about seeing things like this that just are NOT necessary.

[Strege]

well i mean think about it. why do you think scum have not killed me? it's because i've been fucking useless/lazy all game and probably haven't been pushing very many scum that much, and would be a good mislynch candidate for later

What was this in response to?

Welp, trawling for scumreads. SB is pinging me on a reread, particularly when he comes in with a blanketed _I find these five people suspicious_ kind of thing but really just focuses on who he's voting, townreads, or technical questions the rest of the time. It seems like the kind of thing scum who was trying to make their vote look good would overlook. Who are you finding scummy right now?

##Vote: Quote

I'll admit this is partly cathartic, but in addition to the things I've mentioned earlier it's becoming really clear how little Quote is looking for scum and I see way too much troubling over self-preservation. Let's say, Quote > Rein > SB

[euklyd]

There was a hooker on me last night. Not that it matters because I didn't send an action in.

You were told this? Not just that an action failed? Do roleblocked people normally get told they were blocked even if they didn't do anything that could be blocked?

[Grassbridger]

@Boron I can give you brief reads on each person...

Euklyd: townread, for the most part. I trust the claim due to flavor reasons--Euk's early mention of the Usurper and a mention of the Godfather in my own role PM--and for obvious flavor reasons I don't buy the Godfather being an undercover cop, although I acknowledge that it's possible.

j00: null. Don't have too much to say about this slot. I guess that's scummy in a way? But the only game that j00 and I both played in, we were scum together, so I don't have any sense of her scum meta from a town mindset. So yeah basically null. Don't really see the arguments that have come up about her.

Kay: is dead, please update OP

kirsche: mild townread. I know he's been pretty inactive but his actual posts seem pretty good.

Quote: Had a townread before today; hook makes me look more closely. But I think they're the towniest out of Strege/Refa/Quote.

Poly: not sure, arguments for both sides. That heavyhanded attempt to catch people out by targeting Manix and then asking people if they got his PM seems like a thing he might try, except that his very-verifiable role hasn't been verified yet and his guess that Manix would be the N2 kill (after not being the N1 kill) is odd. Why was Manix an easier kill N2 than N1? I guess I'm inclined to think town but I can certainly see the other side.

Refa: case stated above. I don't really think the fact that his weak, scummy case was on me contributes to my read of him (i.e. it's not an OMGUS in any way) except for the fact that because it was me he was attacking, I remembered things much more clearly--I keep track of my own posts better than the other 10-15 players.

Reinfleche: under the radar. Hasn't made an impression.

SB: same. This feels more unusual for SB than Rein.

scorri/Boron: wasn't feeling great about this slot when scorri had it; Boron has made me go back and forth a little. Nullish, maybe on the town side? Boron has been doing an overall good job scumhunting I guess.

Strege: I think his reasoning for shooting Parrhesia was pretty bad, but I could buy him as town based on flavor. Like, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mafia (town) have a Hitman role or something... compulsive vig *sounds* more like a Mafia role than an Undercover Cop role. Basically, when I ask myself if Strege is a Cop, my flavorspec mind says "no" but my content analysis mind says "yes."

Re: Strege's claim: I'm generally inclined to believe his 2-shot compulsive claim. If he's compulsive, he's also telling the truth about the 2-shot part (otherwise we have another missing kill to explain, plus Strege's shift from claiming to not-claiming his kills) and if he's telling the truth about the 2-shot part, it makes sense that he was compulsive, since why would town or scum shoot on the first two nights? The only other option is that he's lying about both parts, and that would make him lying scum, but 3-shot or more vig seems OP for scum. Note that me believing Strege's roleclaim does not make me see him as more townie (except for flavorspec), because role =/= alignment, etc.

Okay so processing the no-kill last night:

-Strege is the only claimed source of second kill, so let's assume there was only one kill out last night.

-Refa's claimed BPV could stop the kill. Refa, I take it you were notified that your vest was hit? (This would make Refa town since the only kill out was the scumkill, I assume.)

-Quote could have been hooked on the kill. Seems unlikely, since the hooker hasn't claimed and Quote is a townread for me. (unless Refa was notified that his vest was hit, which he probably was)

-Doctor who hasn't claimed could exist (see above parenthetical)

I guess I believe Refa is town and absorbed the kill last night, assuming that he was notified of such...

So... I guess Rein/SB/Boron/(Strege??) are my most likely scumspects (not in order). But like, I don't know.