Inception Mafia

[Grace]

one thing =/= entire thread

you missed it. again.

the benefits easily outweigh the risks.

here, even straight from the very post you're attacking. i already answered your question, before you even asked it

[Prims]

I have a hard time telling if you're legit scummy or just post weirdly due to anxiety and shit. Basically you're on my Suspect List but not as high as Rein (although there's no real high or low because my thoughts in general have been a clusterfuck this game).

Cut by an Eury post which reads super fake wtf. Why is Manix scummier than Furet now? Where is the scum intent in his attacks and what makes you certain he's not just a townie tunneling you?

[Grace]

going afk, but one thing:

Imo, that just means you bit down on Prim's reaction test/bait. HARD.

if it's that bad, then why isn't prims voting me for it? considering it was his "reaction test"

[Prims]

Actually nvm I think this is just a very silly town/town slapfight starring people who feel obligated to respond to fucking everything.

Like, the above Manix post is the most irrelevant nitpick I've seen in some time.

[Eurykins]

@Prims:

I have no idea if he's another townie tunneling me or not. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Whether he's legitimate about his role claim or not is one thing, but he's rubbing off ill on me. Thus my vote change. Also, I really don't have much to lose, so I'm going with someone who's actively posting in the thread currently. Oh, wait, was that a breadcrumb? Shoot.

one thing =/= entire thread

you missed it. again.

here, even straight from the very post you're attacking. i already answered your question, before you even asked it

Then why would you type out to me later that there is NO RISK? Yes, you proved to me earlier that you took a risk (and that the benefits outweighed the risks), but then soon after, you told me you didn't take one in the claim.

Inconsistencies make things super interesting.

going afk, but one thing:

if it's that bad, then why isn't prims voting me for it? considering it was his "reaction test"

Who says the reaction tester has to be the one who snatches up/notices the reactions to the test? Just because one person chums the water doesn't mean they have to be the sole person to point out when the sharks have come out to play.

[Prims]

ok yeah girls don't fight you're both pretty (pretty gay)

[Eurykins]

Lol, but deathtunneling is always fun, Prims! And slapfighting, really? Why can't we at least punch or kick or do something... you know, less feminine? D:

Anyways, I'm off for a bit. Got some bigger fish to fry in SMT and League and more cabinets to manage later.

- For the record, I still don't like Curly's responses/vibes, but I may move my vote later to someone more worthwhile once the dust settles (since I doubt a random Curly wagon's going to form and run off into the distance). Coulda just been the massive tunneling that yielded the gut feeling, so may move it back to Parr later if/when I get back.

[Shinori]

I'm getting town vibes from Rein's posts, I feel like he's elaborated enough on his read on Manix that it doesn't really qualify as an easy vote and I don't really see why he'd do that as scum (this applies to his other reads as well).

WRT to Eury's huge post, Euklyd's doublevote being hidden is actually a better reason for him to claim. It prevents accidental hammers and the day phase ending too early. Also I don't get your opinion on this but town does benefit more from being aggressive than scum. Don't know why you think it's the opposite. Also how do you have a scum read on Furet with meta from me? I know I'm basically perfect, but unfortunately not everyone is going to emulate my scumplay.

Also Poly comes across as buddying with Strege, where he complains about Shinori's vote on Strege but doesn't actually say why it was bad. Additionally, I don't get how Rein was defensive at all...And right after that, you (Poly) complain to Prims that not all members of the scum team will be self conscious and defensive and Prims is scummy for thinking that, contradictory logic/10.

I'd vote Poly but eh, he's subbing out and I'd like a reasonable post from his replacement instead of having said person waste all their time defending themself.

I agree with Manix's case on Shinori; there's no reason for town to not pursue a scum read over an RVS vote. Obviously ED1 votes are going to be on people who have a logical possibility of being town, that's not a good excuse. And his Rein vote is bad, because it feels like he's just voting Rein for surface level stuff (not changing his vote) rather than looking for scum intent in that (voteparking).

##Vote: Shinori

I haven't been paying attention to this thread for a bit but came back and saw this and decided to yell at you. Specifically the bolded part is what I want to yell at you for because I have already gone over this when someone else already commented on it. Which you yourself even state in the underlined part right after. Does it not occur to you and your very simple mind that I didn't want to vote Manix because, well as I stated I figured he might be town based on claim, but did it ever occur to you I just didn't want to vote him because I thought he was most likely town and I didn't feel like voting him for that reason? And then I didn't state that I was defintely leaning town on him cause whats the point of stating my more town reads to the entire game so early in the day phase.

Like can you use your brain please? Thanks.

Gonna read more of the thread and get another post in. I just had to get a quick comment in on the only post I saw from Refa.

And as far as I'm concerened refa. Rein not swapping his vote is really lazy. Either he's gonna tunnel Manix, which is bad imo, or he's gonna attempt to find scum elsewhere as well which he doesn't seem to be doing. I would generally classify 'not much scum-hunting' as bad or lazy. Obviously Rein is posting more at the moment so obviously he's not being ENTIRELY lazy which means it's just either poor play or he's trying to NOT help the town.

You said you think he's town but honestly your reasonings are poor for a town read on him. He's town because he elaborated on his Manix read? That doesn't make him town. Scum could easily elaborate on a read they put up. Why is he town besides elaborating on his manix read? Do you have literally ANYTHING else to make me think he could be town or why I should take your case on me seriously?

[The Objection!]

I'm here, I'm here. Gimme a moment, reading the thread.

[Parrhesia]

I think we can all agree this was due to the presence of my One (1) vote, thank you for all your applause.

[Refa]

Skimmed through the thread, more detailed post incoming. Just wanted to reply to Shinori's reply.

Does it not occur to you and your very simple mind that I didn't want to vote Manix because, well as I stated I figured he might be town based on claim, but did it ever occur to you I just didn't want to vote him because I thought he was most likely town and I didn't feel like voting him for that reason? And then I didn't state that I was defintely leaning town on him cause whats the point of stating my more town reads to the entire game so early in the day phase.

Like can you use your brain please? Thanks.

No, it really didn't occur to me.

This post doesn't quite make me want to think your role is town.

I still see your role as sooooo much stronger for scum than town. However the reason I'm not voting you is because of a slew of reasons. I technically think town tailor is also harmful for town.

<reasons>

Don't randomly try to play off me being scummy because I don't like your claim. That's just poor and grasping for whatever you can get early in the day phase.

Like I couldn't see why you'd throw suspicion onto his claim if you had such a strong town read on him. But after looking back, it just seems that you were more upset with his role being useless for town than actually scumreading him. So...my bad on that one.

##Unvote

Do you have literally ANYTHING else to make me think he could be town or why I should take your case on me seriously?

To clarify my Rein read: Don't agree with his vote on Manix, but got town vibes from his reasoning in his reply post, 'specially where he stated that he didn't vote Manix because the claim was scummy but because there was scum intent in the claim. Also I don't see why he'd go through the trouble of making a big case on Parrhesia just not to vote him as scum (well maybe if they were scumbuddies, but I'm certainly not getting that impression lol). Still, I agree that he should really post more content on other people in the game.

[riariadne]

rage why was there like no posts when I was here but a ton when I left

chances of me making a good post until like 12 hours are slim to none but I am reading

[Strege]

A couple notes:
-"scum candidate" =/= "Likely scum candidate", which is actually what Prims said way back when. Arguing about this has gone nowhere as far as I can see.
-Since this is a hammer game anyway we should remember to prove Euklyd's role asap. It's not a huge deal, but there's no reason not to and I'd rather get it out of the way.

There are other reasons I think Prims is scum based on meta and ~~vibes~~ though, I can pile them together if you want. I just don't like writing longer posts but I can do it. I have to nurse a hangover first though

I would still like to see this, especially as you're so confident in your scumread on him. If I wasn't clear, I wasn't saying your judgement was hasty. I was saying that your observation that Prims wanted to lynch Manix for utility was hasty and unjustifiable. The only other part of your case that doesn't just point to vibes is where you say that Prims's read on you was waffley, which troubles me only because it is alone. Your posts lately and their lack of pushing anyone, not even following up on other bad vibes, ping me a lot.

Why is the only other person voting your #1 suspect pinging you when most of their content is about voting your #1 suspect?

I don't see why this is problematic in general, though if the intent is just to hear Euklyd's reason for suspicion then I support the effort.

You're now telling me that NO risk was involved with the actions taken so far within in this thread? So either your actions had no risk, and thus contributed NOTHING to progress the game, or you're lying to me. Which is it?

This kind of nitpicking bothers me a good bit. I don't see Eurykins pointing out scum intent in any of his recent posts despite the effort clearly put into writing them.

Eurykins's Parr vote bothered me a little to begin with. Waving around a neon sign saying "I don't care it's D1" and chewing out players isn't quite lurking, and he doesn't seem to acknowledge this. It's also a little like accusing an anarchist of having no respect for authority. It really doesn't promote discussion to point out that which the accused so obviously displays, though it might contribute a small amount of pressure.

Non-rhetorical question that for some reason I feel is significant to ask you, Eurykins:
Parr could emulate all the scum benefit of his behaviour and gain none of the flak by simply not posting, or posting briefly with some excuses for it. Assuming scum play ideally (if that's a good assumption) why has scum!Parr played as he has?

If you want me so badly lynched, then go vote happy on me all you want, Curly. I will say that there is absolutely nothing to gain from my lynch, and by your reactions/trying to wagon me off, I'm willing to bet that at least half of the people I have on my priority list/reads are probably scum.

Regarding the "Risk" aspect: Whether it applied to JUST YOU or to the entire thread didn't matter. What YOU just said did though:

According to earlier, risks MUST be taken to further progress the game, as playing safely and saying nothing gets nothing done. So, AGAIN, either you just said yourself that your claim had no risk, thus it was MEANINGLESS to do and served NO purpose in benefiting the progress of the thread, or you're lying through your teeth saying your action held no risk. Again, WHICH IS IT?

Imo, that just means you bit down on Prim's reaction test/bait. HARD.

##Unvote

##Vote Curly Brace

This post in particular strikes me very poorly. Concern with formal logic (not really, but that's the best way I can describe it right now) eclipses any reasoning as to why Manix/Curly is scummy. He doesn't explain why Manix reacting to Prims's reaction test as he did is scummy either. The first paragraph exudes confidence that Manix is scum and is followed by the much more conservative tone in post 205. I find the theatrics suspicious as well, though that might just be different approaches to the game so I'm trying to ignore it until I get a better idea of Eurykins's posting style.

##Unvote (Poly) (who might be scummier than Eurykins, but I haven't kept close track because he's subbing)
##Vote: Eurykins

I need to review some people tomorrow morning. Until then I am going to sleep until I am either dead or immune to the common cold, so cya.

[Percivalé]

I'm not pushing anyone else because my reads are so bad this game, like I've been reading through the thread and I just can't get any other strong reads off of anyone and I keep acknowledging this but people keep saying the same thing about me anyway

Sorry, I'll have to put everything together tomorrow.

[Prims]

Man I'm gonna ##Unvote, ##Vote: Quote. I took another look at their ISO and outside of being "super confident" on me they essentially haven't done anything. They allude to having trouble reading everybody else but thought Rein was scum here only to just sort of drop it. It seems like they're aware they're "scummy" and it's coming out in their posts because they're self-conscious, hence drawing attention to their lack of reads.

And of course there's the issue of how they seemingly seek my approval of their posts despite voting me and "never being this confident in a read before". When you're certain somebody is scum, it shouldn't matter what they think about you and your case on them because They Are Not Town. You're not going to make mafia self-vote unless your role is Town Persuader. Not to mention for a read they're supposedly confident in, they haven't actually posted a case or tried to convince people I'm scum since early in the day. hmmmmm

Manix should join me on this wagon because personal bias aside there's a shitton more disconnect in Bizz's posts than there is in Eury's (who is a girl btw Strege).

I'm still OK with a Rein lynch too.

[Prims]

lol cut but it's more of the same stuff I'm voting them for.

[Percivalé]

My role doesn't make sense for a scum to have so there's that. I know Manix just claimed town tailor, but I mean it really doesn't make sense for a scum to have lol.

[Percivalé]

ughh let me read again but there's literally no one else I want to lynch except rein and prims and I guess my issue is I'm really confident because of my own interpretation of certain meta and I'm kinda letting my anxiety get in the way because I feel like if I try to push it a lot I'm gonna get yelled at for not making sense and I'm terrified and I guess that's why I keep holding back but no I'll suck it up and put something together.

[Grace]

And of course there's the issue of how they seemingly seek my approval of their posts despite voting me and "never being this confident in a read before".

i fail to follow. i did a quick iso of via and there's nothing that indicates anything about "seemingly seeking approval" from you at all. i'm not at all sold on this case just because of that. Source Your Shit, etc

having said that, their content could stand to be better, but i don't want to lynch here today, there are better targets

[Prims]

I'm mainly talking about this:

also why are my posts eyeroll worthy to you? Is it because I'm being really lazy because if it is I won't deny I've been lazy.

if I'm scum then it SHOULD NOT MATTER if I think their case is eyeroll-worthy because like I said, I'm not about to vote myself. the laziness quip is also self-conscious

and recently

My role doesn't make sense for a scum to have so there's that. I know Manix just claimed town tailor, but I mean it really doesn't make sense for a scum to have lol.

they wouldn't post this unless they wanted me to think they're town. if i'm scum it doesn't matter if i think they're town

[Percivalé]

Still writing my case, but Prims, that last post actually wasn't directed at you, it was directed towards the other people who have found me suspicious today.

[Grace]

you then realize prims that i'm doing the exact same thing to you, considering i still find you kinda scummy (but eury/rein are worse rn)

your move.

[Grace]

or something. idk

point being, you can still interact with people like that even if you think they're scum, and can help figure out associative reads later when players flip. unsurprisingly, it happens reasonably frequently, but it's not pointed out that often

[The Objection!]

Tempted to reply to Furet's recent post but decided not to.

I'm not really feeling this game right now; kind of wonder if the scum are mostly in the inactives.

You got me, I'm scum. Except scum is the town in this game.

Alright, I think Furet's acting a bit scummy because of:

This post, this, and this one all feel so.... scattered and otherwise just a mass of posts without much to contribute/put forth in terms of progressing the thread. Overall, from the posts I've seen (and at the time they were made), there was little to no effort to further reads, nor was there much commentary/thoughts regarding other posts/cases being put forth by other people. Feels like scummy Refa lurking about again- commenting tiny bits and pieces on one or two matters, but not really contributing to the efforts in-thread. Scummy 'til proven clean.

mostly the bolded part. Having little to no opinions of his own, easily jumping on any wagon formed, and mostly lack of effort.

I think that Rein's case on Furet is bad tbh. Furet's basically new to mafia and I think that he's been doing fine for his first day. Your push on him feels opportunistic, attacking someone for a pretty weak reason when you know they probably won't be as good at defending from it as someone who's more experienced.

Doesn't quite agree to this part by scorri, just because they're new, doesn't mean they can't be attacked. ftr, I find the attack legit since furet was lacking in content.

Also, I'm gonna wait for Levity (Quote)'s complete case on Prims, especially since they seem to be confident in it.

Well, I guess there's not really much to go on so I'm just gonna go with ##Vote: Parrhesia for now and see where it takes me. Cheers

[Prims]

There's a huge difference between discussing reads and opinions with somebody you think is scummy and acting like you need somebody to validate your case on them. Via was doing the latter and there is no reason for them to as town. If I was just a side suspect this might be reasonable but they were quoted as being "89% sure" I'm scum.

Basically for all they talk about suspecting me, they do not at all act like somebody who thinks I'm mafia.