Narga_Rocks Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 As stupid as gratuitous panty-shots are, I think magic skirts are kinda worse. If the skirts are as short as you are describing (never watched the show) it seems impossible for there to never be a panty shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) As stupid as gratuitous panty-shots are, I think magic skirts are kinda worse. If the skirts are as short as you are describing (never watched the show) it seems impossible for there to never be a panty shot. I've got to disagree. Maybe it would be odd in video games where the player is in perfect control of the camera. But in an animation, everything on the screen is in the hand of real human creators. The camera angles, the camera focus, the writing of the scenes itself, drawing them, etc... It is never impossible that they can't be there. It's entirely in these people's hands. They never need to exist. Of course in Madoka's case the skirts are literally magic anyway. Edited January 31, 2014 by BrightBow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I've got to disagree. Maybe it would be odd in video games where the player is in perfect control of the camera. But in an animation, everything on the screen is in the hand of real human creators. The camera angles, the camera focus, the writing of the scenes itself, drawing them, etc... It is never impossible that they can't be there. It's entirely in these people's hands. They never need to exist. Of course in Madoka's case the skirts are literally magic anyway. It's true they don't "need" to exist, and I'm cool with camera angles preventing it. But if you are bouncing around and turning and kicking and the only reason there's no panty shot is because the skirt is defying gravity or defying wind or defying inertia, there's a problem. Yes, they need not exist because the animator can choose to make the skirt stay down despite physics, but it makes me lose respect if there is no explanation for why in-universe physics works that way. DBZ has kamehamehas because everyone can tap into some weird "energy" they have inside themselves, that's cool they sorta explain or handwave it, but nobody explains which magic pixies decided to cast spells on the heroine's skirt to prevent it from flipping when it very clearly should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) It's true they don't "need" to exist, and I'm cool with camera angles preventing it. But if you are bouncing around and turning and kicking and the only reason there's no panty shot is because the skirt is defying gravity or defying wind or defying inertia, there's a problem. Yes, they need not exist because the animator can choose to make the skirt stay down despite physics, but it makes me lose respect if there is no explanation for why in-universe physics works that way. DBZ has kamehamehas because everyone can tap into some weird "energy" they have inside themselves, that's cool they sorta explain or handwave it, but nobody explains which magic pixies decided to cast spells on the heroine's skirt to prevent it from flipping when it very clearly should. If clothes are magic anyway, they don't have to act in a way that weren't deliberately intended by the caster herself. Kinda like a computer program, just without the constant need to debug it in order to get it to work properly. But more generally, even if the camera was briefly aligned this way because of the movement of the characters, such details don't have to be drawn. They wouldn't be noticed in the frames of an fast moving animation. Edited January 31, 2014 by BrightBow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 all I have to say to that is http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicSkirt check the image on the right. That skirt is not staying up, sorry. And it would be flopped down for quite a bit longer than a couple of frames of a fast moving animation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I've got to disagree. Maybe it would be odd in video games where the player is in perfect control of the camera. But in an animation, everything on the screen is in the hand of real human creators. The camera angles, the camera focus, the writing of the scenes itself, drawing them, etc... It is never impossible that they can't be there. It's entirely in these people's hands. They never need to exist. Of course in Madoka's case the skirts are literally magic anyway. Well, no, but if a piece of clothing would behave in a certain way you have to figure that the creators would need to spend an inordinate amount of time to avoid that, since it would regularly behave that way, right? Not that I'm saying that problem is really all that relevant. Also wanted to edit to laugh at the tags. Morals, decency. Hahahaha Edited January 31, 2014 by Esau of Isaac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) all I have to say to that is http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicSkirt check the image on the right. That skirt is not staying up, sorry. And it would be flopped down for quite a bit longer than a couple of frames of a fast moving animation. Well, okay. But there won't be a need for a lot of pantie shots, when it requires Silver Age level of insanity to set up such a situation. Then we are still on the subject of why the scene is written the way it is. Why is it important to the plot to have a scene where someone wearing a short skirt hangs upside down? And even then, there are still ways around that too. Focus on shots that are more distant or shots that show the character from close. Then there are the possibilities offered by the environment. While we are on MAdoka anyway, let's take the example listed on tvtropes there. Mami was suspended by a monster with tentacles. Said tentacles also wrapped themselves quite visibly around her legs and consequently her skirt. So no magic was actually used there. I was using too much of a bolded superlative at the top of this page and if there are scenes were they work well because it adds to the humor or whatever, I don't actually see much of a problem with it. On the last page I was merely using pantieshots as an example how the studio in Madoka's case passed on an obvious way to sexualized the little girls of the main cast. Which I am glad because if it's done only because the studio assumes that their audience have a fetish for the underwear of middle schoolers who look half their age, then it's quite a bit insulting. So my apologies for that. But nevertheless I maintain at least that a studio rarely has to show a girl's underpants. In Madoka, the animators definitely didn't need to bend over backwards to avoid it. Edited January 31, 2014 by BrightBow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Party Moth Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Awakening to you is like Sword Art Online to me. I wish both of those were better than they are. Definitely negative examples of fan service detracting from a product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 I wish both of those were better than they are. Definitely negative examples of fan service detracting from a product. Don't know about SAO, but I do know what I really dislike about awakening in the fan service, I don't like the fan service designs, the fan service jokes or the fan service official art. I'm really not a fan of the art style, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 but awakening is literally the best how can you not see this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 but awakening is literally the best how can you not see this I had it as my favorite for a while. I love the gameplay. I think a lot of the jokes do work. And I actually like most of the characters. I just don't like the art style that much and I dislike the fanservice (which isn't that bad), especially the fanservice DLC. I still like the game, just not that part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The characters are shit though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 The characters are shit though I acknowledge the validity of arguments people made about that. Also, who the heck in Patrick Bateman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) I'd rather have FEA's fanservice DLC (except the american version: fuck the buttcurtain it's not even on a separate layer I'd be almost okay if it was on a separate layer on the 3d view) than the ingame stuff the fanservice DLC acknowledges itself as just fanservice and doesn't treat itself super seriously (while providing better character development than the ingame supports what what) so it's like lol whatever ingame could really do with more pants Edited February 1, 2014 by Thor Odinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soledai Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 As far as the Awakening DLC expounding on the lack of ingame character development, I just lol at that crap... but as far as topic goes, I actually can think of a game that had fanservice so outrageous, I actually felt bad for any woman who happened across that game Oh look, an interesting topic.For me, it depends on context.I will use the following two anime series to explain myself: Sword Art Online (OF COURSE) and Highschool of the Dead. The latter has a hell of a lot more fanservice than the former. I like it a lot better, and one of the big reasons I hate SAO so much is the fanservice. How does that make sense, you ask? Context.Sword Art Online thinks it's good. If you're going to try being serious and really grab the audience with your story, you shouldn't use cheap tricks like fanservice to keep their attention; it just cheapens the work. SAO has so much wish-fulfillment fanservice in it that any semblance of a good story it could have had is no longer existent.Highschool of the Dead, on the other hand, is all about boobs, butts, and blood (zombie blood), and knows it. It doesn't try to get you to take it seriously at all, it's just a thrill-ride of craziness, one that I enjoyed plenty as a result.There is is a middle ground here, though. Sex sells, and sometimes a piece of entertainment may need to take advantage of that just to get itself off the ground and get an audience. Papakiki and The Pet Girl of Sakurasou are good examples of this in anime: they start off with a good deal of fanservice, but when they get going the fanservice largely gets tossed out and they end up being pretty good. It's not the most desirable way of going about things, but it's better than the story never getting out there at all.Then there are other things like Fire Emblem Awakening that just kind of have light fanservice sprinkled around that is never really referenced and you might not even really notice depending on how much you look for these kinds of things. Like the above, not the most desirable way of doing things, but I don't mind it in most cases.There's a manservice side to this, too, but obviously that just isn't as common, and I don't really think any differently of it (if anything we could use more). I enjoyed Free!, though.In the end, sex sells, it always will, and we will have fanservice. Just like I voted not to remove porn from the internet, I'll take my fanservice in moderation.In Free! Seriously, it's a swimming anime about 5 dudes who go around in swim trunks all day. That's precisely why I don't watch much anime these days, and to think... someone recommended me SAO and I almost watched it... you saved me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Also wanted to edit to laugh at the tags. Morals, decency. Hahahaha No, it's "hate", "morals", and "decency". OP, I hate morals and decency as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 , I actually can think of a game that had fanservice so outrageous, I actually felt bad for any woman who happened across that game Ohhh do share! My morbid curiosity is getting the better of me again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 As far as the Awakening DLC expounding on the lack of ingame character development, I just lol at that crap... but as far as topic goes, I actually can think of a game that had fanservice so outrageous, I actually felt bad for any woman who happened across that game Hi. I'm a straight woman, and I enjoy the Agarest series (even if I wish most of the girly fanservice would die in a fire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Hi. I'm a straight woman, and I enjoy the Agarest series (even if I wish most of the girly fanservice would die in a fire). Is the Agarest series related to Spectral Souls at all? I know they're both made by Idea Factory (and part of the reason I picked up Spectral Souls was because it was 50% off to celebrate the release of Records of Agarest War on Android), but I don't actually know if they're related. Edited February 1, 2014 by Euklyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesaw Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 re: sexual fanservice y'know fanservice itself doesn't really bother me that much as much as how narrow of an audience it usually caters to (more skinny/fit white women showing off their titties? ho boy what a new advancement i couldn't find everywhere else with the tiniest bit of effort). sexual openness is good and fine but fucking can we stop promoting the exact same body type/skin colour/whatever over and over again? re: nostalgic fanservice if it's implemented well then ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Is the Agarest series related to Spectral Souls at all? I know they're both made by Idea Factory (and part of the reason I picked up Spectral Souls was because it was 50% off to celebrate the release of Records of Agarest War on Android), but I don't actually know if they're related. Other than a random cameo in Agarest II, not that I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hi. I'm a straight woman, and I enjoy the Agarest series (even if I wish most of the girly fanservice would die in a fire). yeah but what the fuck is with fyuuria's outfit or whatever the fuck her name is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soledai Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) I kind of like those kinds of outfits... usually when they've got some clothes on, like Rutee from Tales of Destiny Ohhh do share! My morbid curiosity is getting the better of me again. Fate/Extra CCC, go nuts(ESPECIALLY that final boss!) maybe I overestimate it... nah... shame really, the game has pretty good music Hi. I'm a straight woman, and I enjoy the Agarest series (even if I wish most of the girly fanservice would die in a fire). Hey there, I believe you mentioned that a time or two before, srsly though, I'm mostly immune to fanservice, but when it's so bad, a porno is less intense/inferior... it's a problem Edited February 2, 2014 by Soledai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Frejya's toenails! I dont think i'll complain too loud about Western comic book BnB poses ever again after seeing this monstrosity... Is everyone made of rubber and water balloons in that universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soledai Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Frejya's toenails! I dont think i'll complain too loud about Western comic book BnB poses ever again after seeing this monstrosity... Is everyone made of rubber and water balloons in that universe? Yeaahhhh, That's actually not the worst of it though... Heavens Hole is, for me at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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