Why do people overrate Hector as a unit?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

But compared to the other lords, and considering the late promotion, it's not enough.

He's not bad by any means, but the other lords are just better. Their promotions anyway.

5 move for a promoted units is pretty awfull. Waiting all this time for a unit who will be inferior to Oswin is pretty bad (If you use Oswin, he'll definitely will have some level ahead as a general, already).

(BTW, I'm pretty sure Lyn is the only one who can face the Final boss relyably with nothing more than an Angel Robe. She'll probably double it too... Eliwood can if it turns well, and Hector will always be doubled)

Oh, ok. His promotions do look terrible compared to Lyn and Eliwood in term of advantage and bonus

Lyn is the only one who CAN"T face the Final Boss reliably

Hector with training is one of the most common way from what I seen because WB is just that good

[burgerkong]

Oh, ok. His promotions do look terrible compared to Lyn and Eliwood in term of advantage and bonus

Lyn is the only one who CAN"T face the Final Boss reliably

Hector with training is one of the most common way from what I seen because WB is just that good

I'm unsure what you mean by the "Hector with training..." line.

Wolf Beil won't do diddly-squat to the Dragon (I'm assuming WB = Wolf Beil). Going back to the Lyn vs. Hector argument against the Dragon, Armads and Sol Katti are doing middling amounts of damage per turn. Lyn also gets weighed down by 8 by Sol Katti, meaning she needs 27 Speed to double, so a speed-screwed Lyn might not even get to double (though this is admittedly unlikely).

Final Boss is a joke with Luna, so it's mostly irrelevant when Athos + Luna is just sitting there (and Filla's Might if you so incline), waiting for you to abuse it.

[Shadow Mir]

Hector is honnestly a crutch character. He starts far better than the others (While Avo is far more imoportant in late game, being able to take hits is a blessing early on). It's promotion is however pretty late, and easily the worst of the three (Wait, he actually GAIN a weakness ? That's even worse than Roy's promo...).

Really usefull early to mid game, far less afterwards.

Eliwood suffers from Canas' syndrome, beacuse his growth and base are far too average. He's still the best lord and gains the most out of promotion (Horse and 1-2 Range access). He can becomes one of the best units of the game, but is too RNG reliant.

He's actually far better on Hector Mode ironically enough.

Lyn... is more of a late bloomer. Her High Avo, and Speed made her really great if you trained her correctly. Bow access and awesome promotion gain made her better. Shze can also become a good Mage killer wiith her good Res.

She may start weaker, but have a whole mode entirely dvoted to makes her grows.

I'd say she's overall the best, because Str issue asides, she do her job (pseudo myrmidon, then horseless Nomad Trooper) really well.

On Hector: What. How can that be worse than Roy's promotion? Also, WRT the weakness thing: Boo hoo hoo, he gets a weakness to a weapon type that you see bupkis of by the time he promotes. Oh, and for your information, Eilwood and Lyn also gain weaknesses when they promote.

But compared to the other lords, and considering the late promotion, it's not enough.

He's not bad by any means, but the other lords are just better. Their promotions anyway.

5 move for a promoted units is pretty awfull. Waiting all this time for a unit who will be inferior to Oswin is pretty bad (If you use Oswin, he'll definitely will have some level ahead as a general, already).

(BTW, I'm pretty sure Lyn is the only one who can face the Final boss relyably with nothing more than an Angel Robe. She'll probably double it too... Eliwood can if it turns well, and Hector will always be doubled)

No. Lyn does piddle damage even when capped (and if she gets strength screwed, she won't even scratch it).

Hector can naturally wield 1-2 range as soon as it's available, he doesn't die to a stiff breeze (unless it's Excalibur), and he doesn't incur the wrath of Hammers/Armorslayers (IIRC, smack me if I'm wrong). The first one is a big point in his favor, and the others ensure that he can stay on the front lines.

Hector isn't vulnerable to knight-harming weapons until post-promotion, I believe

By the time Hector promotes, anti-armor weapons have gone extinct, pretty much.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Levant Fortner

[Tamanoir]

On Hector: What. How can that be worse than Roy's promotion? Also, WRT the weakness thing: Boo hoo hoo, he gets a weakness to a weapon type that you see bupkis of by the time he promotes. Oh, and for your information, Eilwood and Lyn also gain weaknesses when they promote.

No. Lyn does piddle damage even when capped (and if she gets strength screwed, she won't even scratch it).

By the time Hector promotes, anti-armor weapons have gone extinct, pretty much.

Oh right, Lyn gain Swordslayer weakness... But apparently she gains Wo Dao access.. I don't remember if she can uses it before promotion... There ARE some swordslayer users in light game, but I guess she just have to carry a Lancereaver just in case. With her Avoid she won't takes hits really often.

Eliwood gain a Horse and 2 move to counteract its weakness.

Hector's Armour is a complete drawback without any bonus. Same could be said for Lyn, but at least she gains an interresting weapon type to counter it, especially with all the wyverns you'll face.

Hector gains... the most useless weapon type (at least for him). Yeah, he can wear Blades without being doubled. That's all. And he won't realistically gains a good access to them anyway. And he's not a master at doubling things.

Eliwood have without a doubt the best promotion (Horse and Lances).

Lys is slightly worse, but awesome Promotional gains and Bow access is pretty cool.

Hector gains a weapon access that could as well not exist (He even abandon it for the superior Lances in FE6), and a pure drawback (Even if it's irrelevant, OK). and NO Move Bonus.

I thought move was considered one of the most important stats in FE...

And in Hector Mode he would promote extremely late. That's probably more or less the same time as Roy comparatively.

Roy gains crazy stats boost, and an amazingly broken weapon (and 1 Move). He doesn't gain any other weapons Rank, right, but that's the only drawbacks.

Obviously, Hector is far better lords than Roy, but its Promotion royally sucks. Only FE5 Leif have a worse promotion.

He's OK in Eliwood Move if he's the first one to use the Heaven Seal, but otherwise he will be far beyond everyone by the time its promote, and would have a hard time passing the gap between hm and the other units.

To be clear, I don't say Roy is better than Hector. But Hector's promotion is without a doubt inferior (especiallly when you see how late it happens).

Hector starts good , but never really progress more, so he's left behind at the end.

[chococoke]

Hector owns both Eliwood and Lyn pre-promotion (unless you played Lyn mode and gave her a bunch of statboosters) He can gain experience relatively easily and doesn't need to be fed kills/statboosters like the other 2 lords

That with the fact that Armads is easily the best of the 3 Prf final weapons make him the best lord to me. Hector hurts people post-promotion, even with his 5 move. Plus Eliwood is just a bitch, and his horse is only good for giving him the aid necessary to be Hector's personal chauffeur.

Granted, all I do is play HHM nowadays, so I always use Hector. He's easily one of my favorite characters in the game, though

Edited February 5, 2014 by chococoke

[Refa]

He's not exactly a powerhouse that 1RKO's like Marcus or Raven (no, I am not disregarding his durability here). He's really just some sort of Knight, with 5 Move and Axes.

Noone beats Marcus and Hector is definitely better than Raven considering he gets some pretty easy chapters to train up (13x and 15) and be a powerhouse, Raven doesn't have that opportunity until like 25.

That's not a reason to put him in the high horse fans do...he's no FE10 Ike, Sigurd or even Ephraim.

Why compare him to Lords from different games entirely...

He's good in the beginning, but I don't really like him in the later half when magic and big maps hinder him a lot while he stays unpromoted.

Hector is the real Jeigan of FE7. ;)

I'm not arguing that, it's just that's all I see... though I'd say if Eirika ever gets off ground level, she's better than her brother, minus the lance business, but that's due to my thinking that Skl and Spd are a little more important than Str, she can always equip a strong sword

Ephraim beats her in like every stat at base, and he has pretty good growths too. He's also a lot more useful in his mode than Eirika is in hers, and more useful in Eirika's than she is in his. She does beat him in Lagdou I guess, where his caps are to his detriment and she can Wind Sword those fucking Gargoyles and not get doubled by Cerberus'.

Hector can naturally wield 1-2 range as soon as it's available, he doesn't die to a stiff breeze (unless it's Excalibur),

Hahahahaha. I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just funny hearing Excalibur compared to a stiff breeze. Although I think like everyone dies to that considering it's the FINAL COUNTDOWN CHAPTER, but I guess he doesn't do well against any magic user who can double him.

Hector is honnestly a crutch character. He starts far better than the others (While Avo is far more imoportant in late game, being able to take hits is a blessing early on). It's promotion is however pretty late, and easily the worst of the three (Wait, he actually GAIN a weakness ? That's even worse than Roy's promo...).

Really usefull early to mid game, far less afterwards.

Eliwood suffers from Canas' syndrome, beacuse his growth and base are far too average. He's still the best lord and gains the most out of promotion (Horse and 1-2 Range access). He can becomes one of the best units of the game, but is too RNG reliant.

He's actually far better on Hector Mode ironically enough.

Lyn... is more of a late bloomer. Her High Avo, and Speed made her really great if you trained her correctly. Bow access and awesome promotion gain made her better. Shze can also become a good Mage killer wiith her good Res.

She may start weaker, but have a whole mode entirely dvoted to makes her grows.

I'd say she's overall the best, because Str issue asides, she do her job (pseudo myrmidon, then horseless Nomad Trooper) really well.

Hector- Yes

Eliwood- No...just no...

Lyn- I agree with what you're saying, still not the best lord.

The problem is Hector isn't easily replaceable when you have like 3 durable units (him,Oswin,Marcus, Lowen I guess maybe after you feed him a lot) while Eliwood is like a Paladin but worse lategame and god awful early game, Lyn I can see being more useful later on but again she's easily replaced (although I guess being a Kishuna killer is kind of OK maybe...).

Don't agree with anything you said about Hector's promotion, Lyn has a Swordslayer weakness before promo too, and Roy's promotion is pretty bro because it gives him 3 weapon ranks which lets him hit S swords really easily. Would've been better on anyone but Roy.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I'm unsure what you mean by the "Hector with training..." line.

Wolf Beil won't do diddly-squat to the Dragon (I'm assuming WB = Wolf Beil). Going back to the Lyn vs. Hector argument against the Dragon, Armads and Sol Katti are doing middling amounts of damage per turn. Lyn also gets weighed down by 8 by Sol Katti, meaning she needs 27 Speed to double, so a speed-screwed Lyn might not even get to double (though this is admittedly unlikely).

Final Boss is a joke with Luna, so it's mostly irrelevant when Athos + Luna is just sitting there (and Filla's Might if you so incline), waiting for you to abuse it.

yeah i meant armads. I usually used Armads on fd to see the massive damage in nm

Edited February 5, 2014 by JSND

[Florete]

Why are people talking about Armads and the Fire Dragon like it means something in this debate? It doesn't. Luna was already brought up, and you'll have plenty of other good units to help you in the finale.

And besides, Lyn is the one with decent chances to double and crit the Fire Dragon. That's how I did it in my S rank HHM run.

[Shadow Mir]

Oh right, Lyn gain Swordslayer weakness... But apparently she gains Wo Dao access.. I don't remember if she can uses it before promotion... There ARE some swordslayer users in light game, but I guess she just have to carry a Lancereaver just in case. With her Avoid she won't takes hits really often.

Eliwood gain a Horse and 2 move to counteract its weakness.

Hector's Armour is a complete drawback without any bonus. Same could be said for Lyn, but at least she gains an interresting weapon type to counter it, especially with all the wyverns you'll face.

Hector gains... the most useless weapon type (at least for him). Yeah, he can wear Blades without being doubled. That's all. And he won't realistically gains a good access to them anyway. And he's not a master at doubling things.

Eliwood have without a doubt the best promotion (Horse and Lances).

Lys is slightly worse, but awesome Promotional gains and Bow access is pretty cool.

Hector gains a weapon access that could as well not exist (He even abandon it for the superior Lances in FE6), and a pure drawback (Even if it's irrelevant, OK). and NO Move Bonus.

I thought move was considered one of the most important stats in FE...

And in Hector Mode he would promote extremely late. That's probably more or less the same time as Roy comparatively.

Roy gains crazy stats boost, and an amazingly broken weapon (and 1 Move). He doesn't gain any other weapons Rank, right, but that's the only drawbacks.

Obviously, Hector is far better lords than Roy, but its Promotion royally sucks. Only FE5 Leif have a worse promotion.

He's OK in Eliwood Move if he's the first one to use the Heaven Seal, but otherwise he will be far beyond everyone by the time its promote, and would have a hard time passing the gap between hm and the other units.

To be clear, I don't say Roy is better than Hector. But Hector's promotion is without a doubt inferior (especiallly when you see how late it happens).

Hector starts good , but never really progress more, so he's left behind at the end.

Wo Dao access is pretty trivial given that the units who come with them either come late and suck royally, in addition to forcing me to actively use a bad unit (Karla) or require me to pass up a superior unit and weapon (Karel). Other than that, most of the other crap has already been countered or is irrelevant.

Why are people talking about Armads and the Fire Dragon like it means something in this debate? It doesn't. Luna was already brought up, and you'll have plenty of other good units to help you in the finale.

And besides, Lyn is the one with decent chances to double and crit the Fire Dragon. That's how I did it in my S rank HHM run.

True, but honestly I'd rather use Hector or Eliwood, who can actually do something resembling damage to the thing without the need to gamble on a critical hit, or Luna. Especially given that if Lyn's strength doesn't keep up, she might as well be worthless against it.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Levant Fortner

[kirbymastah]

Saying Hector's promotion sucks compared to Lyn/Eliwood is kinda whatever, because Hector doesn't really need awesome promotions in the first place (whereas Eliwood and Lyn kinda need their promotion bonuses more since they suck a lot more pre-promotion). He already uses axes, what better weapon could he use? The main thing is Hector staying at 5 move, which was already brought up, and which isn't really a problem for dragon.

[bottlegnomes]

Doesn't capped Lyn do like 4 damage a hit to the FD?

Anyway, the reasons for people liking Hector are that he's tanky, especially noticeable earlygame, and in casual play, he doesn't actually have too much issue doubling and his move isn't much of an issue. Add on the general anti-Jagen bias of most casual players and Hector being the best boss killer early on save Marcus, and he'll level very quickly. So he starts out pretty good, will probably end up at a comparatively high level, and in Eli's mode, he has a fairly good promotion time.

[Shadow Mir]

Doesn't capped Lyn do like 4 damage a hit to the FD?

Anyway, the reasons for people liking Hector are that he's tanky, especially noticeable earlygame, and in casual play, he doesn't actually have too much issue doubling and his move isn't much of an issue. Add on the general anti-Jagen bias of most casual players and Hector being the best boss killer early on save Marcus, and he'll level very quickly. So he starts out pretty good, will probably end up at a comparatively high level, and in Eli's mode, he has a fairly good promotion time.

That's with the Regal Blade; with the Sol Katti, she does 8 damage a hit, which isn't much better.

[Florete]

True, but honestly I'd rather use Hector or Eliwood, who can actually do something resembling damage to the thing without the need to gamble on a critical hit, or Luna. Especially given that if Lyn's strength doesn't keep up, she might as well be worthless against it.

With A Florina, Sol Katti, and 26 Skl, Lyn is seeing 29 crit against the thing, which is ~50% to crit on at least one attack when doubling. It's not reliable to count on by any means, but she can potentially do more than Hector or Eliwood are ever able to. It's already been mentioned, but Eliwood even faces problems potentially being doubled by the dragon if he's a bit speed screwed. And I haven't done calculations for an average, but I've also experienced Hector missing the dragon. I'd rather get 14 damage than whiff and do nothing...

Saying Hector's promotion sucks compared to Lyn/Eliwood is kinda whatever, because Hector doesn't really need awesome promotions in the first place (whereas Eliwood and Lyn kinda need their promotion bonuses more since they suck a lot more pre-promotion). He already uses axes, what better weapon could he use? The main thing is Hector staying at 5 move, which was already brought up, and which isn't really a problem for dragon.

It's not entirely about the weapon. Promotion is good for new weapons, stat boosts, movement boost, and uncapped level. Only one of those is irrelevant for Hector, and another he doesn't even get.

And ugh, how do things like this always come down to a final chapter evaluation? We're talking about a single enemy here, it's not that big of a deal. Sure, it is the toughest enemy in the game, but none of them are even the best at fighting it. Even without a crit Luna!Athos + Nils are taking out half its health in one turn. Put a crit in and the thing is gone before a Lord could even run up to it. Hell, if you saved a Speedwing or Body Ring for Athos, he'll double and you don't even need a crit <_<. (That sounds weird, though. Someone else check to make sure I calculated that right, because I don't remember it being that simple)

Anyway...Out of all the things my opinions have changed on over the years, miraculously, Lyn has stayed in my mind as the most useful Lord of the three. Maybe it's the way I play, maybe I favor her and don't even realize it because I've done it for so long, but that's just how it turns out. I do always play LHM, where she'll get to ~8-10 and receive the Energy Drop (Robe goes to Florina), but I think that's justifiable enough (I'll completely agree that Lyn without LHM training is bad). She gets A Florina support for +3 atk and +15 crit, which is justifiable outside of max efficiency because it's super fast (41 turns from nothing to A) and Florina is a good unit who benefits plenty from it as well. And then she has those 45 uses of the Mani Katti which tend to be pretty good at slaying anything, especially those Knights and Cavaliers (this is how I always kill Uhai without relying on 60-70 hit from others).

Compare it to Hector, whose only real advantage is his raw durability. Yes, it is substantially better and leaves him at little risk of dying after a few maps of leveling, but before long I always see Lyn (and most units, to be honest) dodging very reliably anyway. And I've always got at least one dedicated healer on the team, two when Pent arrives, so even if an unlucky hit strikes I won't be in hot water. Hector's offense tends to be rough, with a hard time doubling and, early on, a hard time even hitting enemies that aren't wielding Lances (which does end up being most of the enemies in the game). Access to 1-2 range is his win here, but it's not really enough when, just as he starts to really get going, he level caps and slowly gets worse until he can finally see a promotion, but still has a hard time reaching enemies due to his 5 move and high Con. (This game doesn't exactly have an extraordinary amount of ranged enemies anyway outside the maps with a majority of magic using enemies like CoD [not Call of Duty] and the right side of CB)

Personally, I'm just going to chalk it up to being the way I play. This isn't a Sothe case where a unit that is obviously great is bagged on by people who don't know better; I can see where the criticism is coming from. I do still think Hector tends to be overrated as a unit, though. I don't think he's bad by any means, but he's not particularly great.

[Refa]

Eliwood can OHKO the Dragon actually..

EDIT Fair enough about the final chapter evaluation though. I do think Lyn is better than Eliwood overall.

EDIT 2 Oh, your Lyn has LHM training. Yeah, I can see why you think she's so good in that case. Dunno about if she matches up favorably against Hector's early-mid game, but still way better than HHM!Lynch.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Refa

[chococoke]

One point to remember is that Hector has incredibly favorable matchups early in his/Eli's mode vs. bosses. He can get levels rather easily this way, as long as the player isn't concerned about conserving the Wolf Beil and/or giving all boss kills to Marcus. Lyn with training and an energy ring is definitely a formidable offensive unit, but she only sports 4 defense and 23 HP on average at level 11 unpromoted (granted, you argue more than 10 levels in LM, but that seems fair.)

By the time she joins in HHM, Hector has already seen quite a few bosses that are dispatched by him easily (as long as he connects with said kill shot.) He is good enough to be used even if he wasn't forced. Unpromoted Lyn does what a few other male units do better (Guy and Raven say hello with their HM bonuses) and is worse off than they are defensively to boot.

[Shadow Mir]

With A Florina, Sol Katti, and 26 Skl, Lyn is seeing 29 crit against the thing, which is ~50% to crit on at least one attack when doubling. It's not reliable to count on by any means, but she can potentially do more than Hector or Eliwood are ever able to. It's already been mentioned, but Eliwood even faces problems potentially being doubled by the dragon if he's a bit speed screwed. And I haven't done calculations for an average, but I've also experienced Hector missing the dragon. I'd rather get 14 damage than whiff and do nothing...

It's not entirely about the weapon. Promotion is good for new weapons, stat boosts, movement boost, and uncapped level. Only one of those is irrelevant for Hector, and another he doesn't even get.

And ugh, how do things like this always come down to a final chapter evaluation? We're talking about a single enemy here, it's not that big of a deal. Sure, it is the toughest enemy in the game, but none of them are even the best at fighting it. Even without a crit Luna!Athos + Nils are taking out half its health in one turn. Put a crit in and the thing is gone before a Lord could even run up to it. Hell, if you saved a Speedwing or Body Ring for Athos, he'll double and you don't even need a crit <_<. (That sounds weird, though. Someone else check to make sure I calculated that right, because I don't remember it being that simple)

Anyway...Out of all the things my opinions have changed on over the years, miraculously, Lyn has stayed in my mind as the most useful Lord of the three. Maybe it's the way I play, maybe I favor her and don't even realize it because I've done it for so long, but that's just how it turns out. I do always play LHM, where she'll get to ~8-10 and receive the Energy Drop (Robe goes to Florina), but I think that's justifiable enough (I'll completely agree that Lyn without LHM training is bad). She gets A Florina support for +3 atk and +15 crit, which is justifiable outside of max efficiency because it's super fast (41 turns from nothing to A) and Florina is a good unit who benefits plenty from it as well. And then she has those 45 uses of the Mani Katti which tend to be pretty good at slaying anything, especially those Knights and Cavaliers (this is how I always kill Uhai without relying on 60-70 hit from others).

Compare it to Hector, whose only real advantage is his raw durability. Yes, it is substantially better and leaves him at little risk of dying after a few maps of leveling, but before long I always see Lyn (and most units, to be honest) dodging very reliably anyway. And I've always got at least one dedicated healer on the team, two when Pent arrives, so even if an unlucky hit strikes I won't be in hot water. Hector's offense tends to be rough, with a hard time doubling and, early on, a hard time even hitting enemies that aren't wielding Lances (which does end up being most of the enemies in the game). Access to 1-2 range is his win here, but it's not really enough when, just as he starts to really get going, he level caps and slowly gets worse until he can finally see a promotion, but still has a hard time reaching enemies due to his 5 move and high Con. (This game doesn't exactly have an extraordinary amount of ranged enemies anyway outside the maps with a majority of magic using enemies like CoD [not Call of Duty] and the right side of CB)

Personally, I'm just going to chalk it up to being the way I play. This isn't a Sothe case where a unit that is obviously great is bagged on by people who don't know better; I can see where the criticism is coming from. I do still think Hector tends to be overrated as a unit, though. I don't think he's bad by any means, but he's not particularly great.

Conceded that Eliwood being speed screwed renders him useless against the dragon, but I think a strength screwed Lyn is just as bad off (to put it into perspective, she needs 17 strength to do anything to it, and 40% isn't exactly what I'd call reliable). Which just leaves Hector for me - sure, he might miss, but if that happens, c'est la vie - just heal and try again. As for the support part, you gotta admit, no one really discusses GBA supports these days... and whilst Lyn/Florina is fast, in the end, there's a move difference to account for. It doesn't change the fact that both of them are still as fragile as wet tissue paper either.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Levant Fortner

[Florete]

One point to remember is that Hector has incredibly favorable matchups early in his/Eli's mode vs. bosses. He can get levels rather easily this way, as long as the player isn't concerned about conserving the Wolf Beil and/or giving all boss kills to Marcus. Lyn with training and an energy ring is definitely a formidable offensive unit, but she only sports 4 defense and 23 HP on average at level 11 unpromoted (granted, you argue more than 10 levels in LM, but that seems fair.)

By the time she joins in HHM, Hector has already seen quite a few bosses that are dispatched by him easily (as long as he connects with said kill shot.) He is good enough to be used even if he wasn't forced. Unpromoted Lyn does what a few other male units do better (Guy and Raven say hello with their HM bonuses) and is worse off than they are defensively to boot.

I only argued for 7-9 level ups on Lyn, actually. I mean, I've exited LHM with her as high as level 17, but I'm definitely not going to say that is a common case.

Raven is a monster, but Guy? Not quite. An LHM trained Lyn with the Energy Ring (since you don't seem to disagree with that) is going to be completely better offensively and stay that way due to superior growths.

Conceded that Eliwood being speed screwed renders him useless against the dragon, but I think a strength screwed Lyn is just as bad off (to put it into perspective, she needs 17 strength to do anything to it, and 40% isn't exactly what I'd call reliable). Which just leaves Hector for me - sure, he might miss, but if that happens, c'est la vie - just heal and try again. As for the support part, you gotta admit, no one really discusses GBA supports these days... and whilst Lyn/Florina is fast, in the end, there's a move difference to account for. It doesn't change the fact that both of them are still as fragile as wet tissue paper either.

Even outside of the Energy Ring, Lyn can use her Florina support to boost her damage; Eliwood cannot boost his Spd in any such way. I don't know why you would not use Lyn/Florina if you're using Lyn at all. The reason no one discusses GBA supports is because of how long they take, which doesn't apply to this pair. There is a move difference, yes; that's why I mentioned "outside of max efficiency." Casual, S rank, semi-efficiency, etc. can make use of the support easily in most cases.

And am I the only one (there are 7 billion people on the planet but I swear I feel like I'm alone here) who basically never worries about durability in this game? For years I never even noticed Lyn had low HP/Def because it was never a factor when I played. That's why Hector's durability never impressed me. I only ever see durability issues at base before units start getting levels under their belt because the enemies in this game have no accuracy and I use healers, and I mean for every single unit in the game (granted, Nino requires quite a lot of levels before reaching this point). How else could Lyn and Florina have been my star offensive players in my HHM S rank run (and if you want to see how that ended, clicky)?

[-Cynthia-]

Hector is ok because axes and FE7 enemies are so slow he only needs a few level ups to double.

[Jotari]

And am I the only one (there are 7 billion people on the planet but I swear I feel like I'm alone here) who basically never worries about durability in this game?

Don't worry, I'm sure most of that 7 billion are people who haven't played the game and thus have nothing to worry about in that regard.

[Tamanoir]

I only argued for 7-9 level ups on Lyn, actually. I mean, I've exited LHM with her as high as level 17, but I'm definitely not going to say that is a common case.

Raven is a monster, but Guy? Not quite. An LHM trained Lyn with the Energy Ring (since you don't seem to disagree with that) is going to be completely better offensively and stay that way due to superior growths.

Even outside of the Energy Ring, Lyn can use her Florina support to boost her damage; Eliwood cannot boost his Spd in any such way. I don't know why you would not use Lyn/Florina if you're using Lyn at all. The reason no one discusses GBA supports is because of how long they take, which doesn't apply to this pair. There is a move difference, yes; that's why I mentioned "outside of max efficiency." Casual, S rank, semi-efficiency, etc. can make use of the support easily in most cases.

And am I the only one (there are 7 billion people on the planet but I swear I feel like I'm alone here) who basically never worries about durability in this game? For years I never even noticed Lyn had low HP/Def because it was never a factor when I played. That's why Hector's durability never impressed me. I only ever see durability issues at base before units start getting levels under their belt because the enemies in this game have no accuracy and I use healers, and I mean for every single unit in the game (granted, Nino requires quite a lot of levels before reaching this point). How else could Lyn and Florina have been my star offensive players in my HHM S rank run (and if you want to see how that ended, clicky)?

Don't worry, we're at least two.

Well, GBAFE game really favors avoid compared to Physical Defense. (Res may allows you to avoid these status staff, so it's more relevant). Def is only usefull early on (and against the dragon only HP and Speed are relevant anyway).

The 2 RNG method, Poison weapons and generally weak ennemies (even against Nino, they will rarely have more than 60 displayed hit at base), makes Defense increasingly irrelevant. People makes lot of fun about luck, but Def is without a doubt the worst stats in GBA FE. That's why I'm telling for years.

About Lyn. Mani Kati is the best Lord's starting weapons hands down : light, strong, accurate and with a Crit Bonus. Wolf Beil only have Str on its side.

(And Athos would need a spare Angel Robe in HHM to fight against the Dragon reliably in HHM, because it can easily be one-shoted).

Edited February 6, 2014 by Totally Radical Judge

[Shadow Mir]

Don't worry, we're at least too.

Well, GBAFE game really favors avoid compared to Physical Defense. (Res may allows you to avoid these status staff, so it's more relevant). Def is only usefull early on (and against the dragon only HP and Speed are relevant anyway).

The 2 RNG method, Poison weapons and generally weak ennemies (even against Nino, they will rarely have more than 60 displayed hit at base), makes Defense increasingly irrelevant. People makes lot of fun about luck, but Def is without a doubt the worst stats in GBA FE. That's why I'm telling for years.

About Lyn. Mani Kati is the best Lord's starting weapons hands down : light, strong, accurate and with a Crit Bonus. Wolf Beil only have Str on its side.

(And Athos would need a spare Angel Robe in HHM to fight against the Dragon reliably in HHM, because it can easily be one-shoted).

That's an odd misspelling of Skill you've got there.

Bold: lolno. Wolf Beil also has WTA against the many knights and cavs, which, for your information, use lances and thus force WTD on Lyn, who can't afford to take a hit. (and sure, not all cavs use lances, but still, this game is lance heavy)

Even outside of the Energy Ring, Lyn can use her Florina support to boost her damage; Eliwood cannot boost his Spd in any such way. I don't know why you would not use Lyn/Florina if you're using Lyn at all. The reason no one discusses GBA supports is because of how long they take, which doesn't apply to this pair. There is a move difference, yes; that's why I mentioned "outside of max efficiency." Casual, S rank, semi-efficiency, etc. can make use of the support easily in most cases.

And am I the only one (there are 7 billion people on the planet but I swear I feel like I'm alone here) who basically never worries about durability in this game? For years I never even noticed Lyn had low HP/Def because it was never a factor when I played. That's why Hector's durability never impressed me. I only ever see durability issues at base before units start getting levels under their belt because the enemies in this game have no accuracy and I use healers, and I mean for every single unit in the game (granted, Nino requires quite a lot of levels before reaching this point). How else could Lyn and Florina have been my star offensive players in my HHM S rank run (and if you want to see how that ended, clicky)?

I can't speak for everyone else, but I'd say you are the only one here who does think that way. Also as to Lyn/Florina, not all people are willing to deploy a character with fragile speedster tendencies for the sake of another.

[Tamanoir]

That's an odd misspelling of Skill you've got there.

Bold: lolno. Wolf Beil also has WTA against the many knights and cavs, which, for your information, use lances and thus force WTD on Lyn, who can't afford to take a hit. (and sure, not all cavs use lances, but still, this game is lance heavy)

I can't speak for everyone else, but I'd say you are the only one here who does think that way. Also as to Lyn/Florina, not all people are willing to deploy a character with fragile speedster tendencies for the sake of another.

Skill at least allows you to hit things and increase Crit somewhat.

Still better than Def.

Avoid is crazily overpowered in this game. When you can consider Ninian a better choke point than Oswin (In Denning chapter, that's definitely the case), you know there is some problem.

About Mani Katti. OK, Axe may have a small advantage here. Mani Katti still destroy every Nomad and Nomad Trooper with ease. (especially good on CoG).

Bold : That's a strange way to spell "Avo tanks".

[Shadow Mir]

Skill at least allows you to hit things and increase Crit somewhat.

Still better than Def.

Avoid is crazily overpowered in this game. When you can consider Ninian a better choke point than Oswin (In Denning chapter, that's definitely the case), you know there is some problem.

About Mani Katti. OK, Axe may have a small advantage here. Mani Katti still destroy every Nomad and Nomad Trooper with ease. (especially good on CoG).

Bold : That's a strange way to spell "Avo tanks".

What, did we step into some bizarro world where freaking SKILL, aka, joke stat, suddenly became more important than something that actually makes a difference? Because most enemies are generally slow enough to hit reliably, and they're generally weighed down too.

Never mind Ninian isn't even playable there.

So does the Rapier - it ain't as if the Mani Katti is unique in that regard. Granted, though, Eliwood wouldn't easily double nomads,, as they generally either aren't weighed down, or the weight penalty isn't that much.

More hyping of something that only really becomes reliable lategame, huh. Bah. Also, FYI, any weapon worth using cuts into Florina's avoid, and thus, her durability. That's not a good thing, for the record.

[General Horace]

i don't know when ninian would ever be considered better at holding a choke than oswin, even against magic since magic users aren't ever doubling oswin unless he's underlevelled or facing the Cog of Destiny Valks, the latter of which should never happen

i mean he'll have at least 20 hp on ninian if you're using Oswin on a regular basis, and his resistance upon promotion isn't actually that bad, and there's no contest when facing physical enemies, there's always the chance that ninian gets hit twice by two 40% hits and curls up and dies

defence is a pretty big stat early on in hhm too, it separates someone like Dorcas with a few Lyn mode levels from Oswin.

as for Hector himself, he's debateably your second best unit in the hardest part of the game, and he's not that much of a pain like Eliwood or Roy having to lug around unpromoted since he's still more than durable enough unpromoted to take some abuse. The worst part about him really is his enormous con and low movement upon promotion, but you have a team of wrecking balls by that point, so his contributions are largely irrelevant, but he can still easily hold his own if need be.

Edited February 6, 2014 by General Horace

[CT075]

About Lyn. Mani Kati is the best Lord's starting weapons hands down : light, strong, accurate and with a Crit Bonus. Wolf Beil only have Str on its side.

bullshit

the extra hit doesn't matter because hector gets WTA on the things you'd really want to use it on (ok fine there are like 10 sword cavs running around in the entire game)

crits are unreliable

the weight doesn't matter because neither of them get weighed down

and the wolf beil has even more might